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DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,875
He's worse because they're treating him like the hero and not someone with a problem.

He catches Pokemon and he takes care of them. It's not like he ignores them, like actually ignores them, once they are at the lab. Trying to spin it as a bad thing is honestly weird. I feel like we are getting "bitch eating crackers" syndrome at this point. Like is Ash an asshole for leaving his Pokemon with Oak?
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
Like is Ash an asshole for leaving his Pokemon with Oak?

That's one aspect you just have to have in a series with a recurring character who has new teams each time. Generally he sticks with a team of Pokemon per region and they have a rapport with him, as well as an understanding that they have their own autonomy.

Gou straight up threw a pokeball at a random Darmanitan that had its back turned, gets insta caught, and it basically vanished from the series.
The way its presented with like just cutting through their homes and catching them all used to be a Team Rocket thing, and its a bad look.

Ultimately you could just say that its a cartoon for kids so it doesn't need to make sense, but even by this IP's confused rules this season is a clusterfuck.
 
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Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
I like to think that random kid with the Heatran in Sinnoh was like "haha, there's no way I can lose" and then he goes against Tobias in the prelinaries.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,624
They have shown plenty of scenes with Goh taking great care of all of his Pokémon and their needs across the series- frankly, more so than we've ever got from any other main character in the series, up to and including Ash.

The only time he's treated a Pokémon poorly is when he was giving Scorbunny a hard time just before it evolved, but he paid a price for that, insofar as him and Raboot didn't have a good relationship for a substantial number of episodes as a direct result.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
Ultimately you could just say that its a cartoon for kids so it doesn't need to make sense, but even by this IP's confused rules this season is a clusterfuck.
I mean, almost all game players catch Pokemon in a way that's closer to Go's than Ash's (even if Go isn't exactly accurate either since he often skips the battle part due to Pokemon Go). It's odd to me some people think Go is morally wrong. You're basically criticizing the basis of the franchise.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
I mean, almost all game players catch Pokemon in a way that's closer to Go's than Ash's (even if Go isn't exactly accurate either since he often skips the battle part due to Pokemon Go). It's odd to me some people think Go is morally wrong. You're basically criticizing the basis of the franchise.

The games function that way because they're games. The anime was never a 1:1 adaptation and they made an effort to avoid some of the questions like "do they like battling?" etc by way of giving them more individual personality and joining on their own terms. Just because something was a game mechanic doesn't make it a good addition decades into an animated show. Gou doesn't just "skip the battle" he usually skips interacting with then entirely until they're in his possession and even then they're basically just going to the zoo.

Using razor leaf to cut an area of long grass and reveal everything living there had me saying "what?" like even in the game you don't go around cutting up their habitat to find them.
 
Aug 7, 2019
1,378


Don't drag Goh down, because it only drags Ash down (which isn't what you want, RIGHT?)

Wait I get it now, most of the Pokemon fanbase hates they aren't Ash's boyfriend
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,372
The games function that way because they're games. The anime was never a 1:1 adaptation and they made an effort to avoid some of the questions like "do they like battling?" etc by way of giving them more individual personality and joining on their own terms. Just because something was a game mechanic doesn't make it a good addition decades into an animated show. Gou doesn't just "skip the battle" he usually skips interacting with then entirely until they're in his possession and even then they're basically just going to the zoo.

Using razor leaf to cut an area of long grass and reveal everything living there had me saying "what?" like even in the game you don't go around cutting up their habitat to find them.

I know they're games, but it's still a core part of the experience, not just some side mechanic. I always thought it was odd the anime chose to dump that specific element. Regarding the razor leaf scene, Cut could be used to remove tall grass in old games (up to gen III, I think). Although in that case it was more like cutting up their habitat to make them go away since the point was avoiding encounters.
 
Nov 25, 2019
611
They have shown plenty of scenes with Goh taking great care of all of his Pokémon and their needs across the series- frankly, more so than we've ever got from any other main character in the series, up to and including Ash.

The only time he's treated a Pokémon poorly is when he was giving Scorbunny a hard time just before it evolved, but he paid a price for that, insofar as him and Raboot didn't have a good relationship for a substantial number of episodes as a direct result.
I disagree, almost any other main character, aside from specific cases, has been shown caring and hanging out with their Pokémon constantly. Goh has had some few scenes with all his things on Sakuragi's Lab mostly limited to feeding them but we're left to assume he spends time with them. I think that's the problem, again.

I remember for example, that fans were complaining when Piplup had tons of screentime compared to the other members of Hikari's party, yet every one of them were constantly on-screen, doing little or big things. Compare with Goh, which doesn't have any Pokémon with storylines, a bit of personality development or screentime aside from his ace. Goh's Pokémon are on the level of something like Mao's Shaymin, Jessie's Lickitung or Ash's BW team aside from the starters; probably even worse. With some exceptions, all of them are devoid of any character and just function as pretty props.

I mean of course Goh isn't doing bad things to his Pokémon, but they are just there. Most of them are relegated to random appearances on scenes that depict the lab, just as background Pokémon. Raichu had its first appearance since its capture episode this Friday, same for Alolan Exeggutor. The little Magikarp I think cameo'd recently, but it wasn't seen before. Aerodactyl appeared 5 seconds to react to the new fossil-mons and that's all it has done. Have Scatterbug or Fletchling or most of Kanto bugs do anything at all? Wngull and Hitmonchan have had like 10 seconds of screentime total.

I mean, it's part of how the writers can't balance screentime for characters (in some cases it's almost borderline impossible) but it just highlights how little we've seen of Goh's Pokémon. They can't even do well with Ash's Pokémon right now, which are only 7 characters. Goh has 50+ things stuck on the lab, happily living there, that's a given, but they don't do anything and it creates the feeling that Goh doesn't care about them (like how Greedent wins the eating contest but it's not allowed to come to Unova to enjoy the prize).

In the end, it's all due to how the writers are "developing" Goh's goal and how different it is from the world already established.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
Welp, I guess this is the official Gou's appreciation OT


Soon we will need a "Gou seems to be developing quite the fan art following already"
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
Goh has 50+ things stuck on the lab, happily living there, that's a given, but they don't do anything and it creates the feeling that Goh doesn't care about them

I mean half of them were basically abducted without warning and kind of placed there. But its ok because they tell us its ok.
In this world you have to be on alert or you'll get hit in the back of the head with one of Gou's overpowered pokeballs and wake up in a zoo.
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
I mean half of them were basically abducted without warning and kind of placed there. But its ok because they tell us its ok.
In this world you have to be on alert or you'll get hit in the back of the head with one of Satoshi's overpowered safari balls and wake up in a zoo.
53252124814de78d8c7a86820723c8fefba31d24_hq.gif
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653

Disregarding the fact that you're comparing a characters entire purpose in a show to a one off gag... that episode never actually aired in English, but still it existed as a joke reference to the Safari Zone (every episode is now a Safari episode). Around the same time they were also showing trainers whipping their Pokemon (but its OK because they like it or whatever?)

In the Sun and Moon anime the Ultrabeasts were ultimately sent back to their world, but I swear this current anime they'd all just be in Gou's collection.
 
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PancakeFlip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,918
I don't have a problem with Gou beyond them not being able to develop him well.
I mean half of them were basically abducted without warning and kind of placed there. But its ok because they tell us its ok.
In this world you have to be on alert or you'll get hit in the back of the head with one of Gou's overpowered pokeballs and wake up in a zoo.
It is kind of weird how Ash is just okay with it too or how there hasn't been an episode where they clash because of it. There are several episodes where Gou literally goes AWOL on Ash during a conflict to go catch something
 

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
They have shown plenty of scenes with Goh taking great care of all of his Pokémon and their needs across the series- frankly, more so than we've ever got from any other main character in the series, up to and including Ash.

The only time he's treated a Pokémon poorly is when he was giving Scorbunny a hard time just before it evolved, but he paid a price for that, insofar as him and Raboot didn't have a good relationship for a substantial number of episodes as a direct result.
What about when Dewgong seemingly got lost during a storm and he was like 👐
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
Wish Netflix would get the rights to all the other seasons. DisneyNOW finally removed all but four seasons, when just last night they had every episode ever up to Journeys.
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,525
The Wikstrom episode has Goh bringing Scyther along to train too, I wonder when that pokemon will evolve
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,471
Reading people do microanalysis on whether a character should be able to catch mons and send them away seems weird in a fiction where millions of players already do this exact thing (Go in some ways sound like a more accurate version of players). "But that's just a game and how the games work..." yeah and this is just an anime based on those games.

And honestly blind siding a mon and sending it away sounds far better than bringing it to its knees in a rough battle before catching it.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
(Go in some ways sound like a more accurate version of players)

Ok, and the issue I had was that the anime always had its own methods which are blown wide open in the most recent season. Its still as based on the games as any other, as in very very loosely. You have one character who is building a team of creatures who are willingly joining like usual, and the other main character presenting the same creatures to be his property by birthright (again, this is how Team Rocket functions).
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,471
Ok, and the issue I had was that the anime always had its own methods which are blown wide open in the most recent season. Its still as based on the games as any other, as in very very loosely. You have one character who is building a team of creatures who are willingly joining like usual, and the other main character presenting the same creatures to be his property by birthright (again, this is how Team Rocket functions).

Is he doing all the other bad things that Team Rocket does? Does he actively mistreat these Pokémon? Or does he catch and send?

Like it's ok for the anime to mix it up and this doesn't seem like something to get hung up on.
 
Aug 7, 2019
1,378
Clearly the only compromise Goh haters would like is if Ash changed his goal after Alola to catching Mew and every Pokemon in the world

Then if you absolutely have to introduce Goh, make him the ball polisher who hands stuff to Ash and sits still/stares blankly ahead

Gonna continue the AMV trend and wait for the love and appreciation towards the anime for finding a solution that didn't change Ash but kept their bosses happy anyways:

 
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KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,072
I feel it's fair to say you don't like how Goh has been developing. Still gotta see how he goes in the end but not really been a fan of his direction so far.

Look all I'm saying is I don't want an ending where Ash is going to end somewhere in the Top 16 trainers in the world and then the last episodes of Journeys there's gonna have a fight between Ash and Goh end and it ends in a draw between the two somehow despite Goh not focusing on battling anywhere close to Ash.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,875
I feel it's fair to say you don't like how Goh has been developing. Still gotta see how he goes in the end but not really been a fan of his direction so far.

Look all I'm saying is I don't want an ending where Ash is going to end somewhere in the Top 16 trainers in the world and then the last episodes of Journeys there's gonna have a fight between Ash and Goh end and it ends in a draw between the two somehow despite Goh not focusing on battling anywhere close to Ash.

why would that occur though.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,072
why would that occur though.
Goh isn't even in the World Coronation Series, so I wouldn't worry about him suddenly taking out or battling to a draw with Ash.

Just set a reminder for the Journeys Potential end point (Let's assume it'll match similar past seasons and will end in November 2022) and we'll see if it happens or not. Note I'm not saying Goh enters the World Coronation Series, more that after it wraps up, they have a friendly match which goes all the way to a draw.

A Lucario VS Cinderace battle is due at some stage for certain I feel.
 
Aug 7, 2019
1,378
Just set a reminder for the Journeys Potential end point (Let's assume it'll match similar past seasons and will end in November 2022) and we'll see if it happens or not. Note I'm not saying Goh enters the World Coronation Series, more that after it wraps up, they have a friendly match which goes all the way to a draw.

A Lucario VS Cinderace battle is due at some stage for certain I feel.

Pikachu vs Mew would probably end in a draw or not be given any implied answer to which won
 
Nov 25, 2019
611
Oh, the Psyduck episode features Kikuna and Koharu? It's automatically more interesting. We had to wait almost a year to see the girls do something but they haven't dropped the ball with Koharu's episodes, so I'm excited.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
People are equally allowed to think the criticism is nitpicking. Criticism isn't safe from other criticism.

I was questioning media itself while you're telling another human being how to react in a condescending manner.
I don't like the direction this season took with its supporting cast, and that's fine, its not a personal flaw.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,471
I was questioning media itself while you're telling another human being how to react in a condescending manner.
I don't like the direction this season took with its supporting cast, and that's fine, its not a personal flaw.

I don't think I said it's a personal flaw to think that, I'm stating I don't agree with the criticism.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
Those stating Gou beating Ash in a battle would be absurd due to Ash's much greater experience, how do ya'll feel about Ash beating gym leaders in their 50s and older on a regular basis? What have these people been up to all their life? 🤔
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
Those stating Gou beating Ash in a battle would be absurd due to Ash's much greater experience, how do ya'll feel about Ash beating gym leaders in their 50s and older on a regular basis? What have these people been up to all their life? 🤔

It's a bit different seeing a character we followed for 1000 eps lose to new kid who doesn't even have the same aspiration. Probably why people hated Alan for being introduced as kind of a wall in the last minute in XYZ.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
Those stating Gou beating Ash in a battle would be absurd due to Ash's much greater experience, how do ya'll feel about Ash beating gym leaders in their 50s and older on a regular basis? What have these people been up to all their life? 🤔
Those old gym leaders were there to help guide young trainers, so they are meant to lose from time to time.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,412
It's a bit different seeing a character we followed for 1000 eps lose to new kid who doesn't even have the same aspiration. Probably why people hated Alan for being introduced as kind of a wall in the last minute in XYZ.

Personally, I didn't mind Alan, though the type-advantage loss was a bit insulting. Gou has been shown to be a compotent battler when he chooses to, and by the end of this series, we'll have a good chunk of episodes showing that too. At what point would he be allowed to be on equal footing with Ash? Never, because Ash will have a higher episode count on him in any case? If a match between those two is to happen, it won't be for some time, so there is no reason to take the current Gou as to why it cannot work.

Those old gym leaders were there to help guide young trainers, so they are meant to lose from time to time.

What about the Battle Frontier, which were said to be a test of true prowess? Lost to a kid using even legendaries. Age and experience is meaningless in this franchise whenever the writers deem it so. It's been like day since episode 1.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
At what point would he be allowed to be on equal footing with Ash? Never, because Ash will have a higher episode count on him in any case?

Its really not the episode count. Current or not, hes not even doing the ranked battles, no gym battles, no previous leagues, just a desire to catch mew. Its comparable to like if XYZ had Serena decide last second to enter the league and beats him.
 
OP
OP
Serebii

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,118
Remember, seasons in the west are made up of 40 to 60ish episodes and often have different names

Johto Saga
Johto Journeys
Johto League Champions
Master Quest

Hoenn Saga
Advanced
Advanced Challenge
Advanced Battle
Battle Frontier

Sinnoh Saga
Diamond & Pearl
DP: Battle Dimension
DP: Galactic Battles
DP: Sinnoh League Victors

Unova Saga
Black & White
BW Rival Destinies
BW Adventures in Unova
BW Adventures in Unova & Beyond

Kalos Saga
XY
XYZ

Alola Saga
Sun & Moon
Sun & Moon Ultra Adventures
Sun & Moon Ultra Legends

Gen 8
Journeys
???
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,875
I personally can't stand the dub, getting rid of Yuki Hayashi's compositions for what they put in is almost criminal.
 

Mankoto

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,378
Just started this with a friend the other day. We're currently on episode 25ish or so. Surprised to see all the hate for Gou on this page alone. I honestly find his antics pretty funny in a sense that he's the player character in every Pokemon game minus gym battles. He's just traveling the world and catching every Pokemon he doesn't have. If anything, I'm just surprised he has the money to feed all of those Pokemon.