• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
A mountain in the US
For years, I thought that "the Nordic model" was the right way. I thought that buyers should stay criminalized, but I felt that those in sex work were largely being exploited and should not face any sort of criminal charges or treatment. Last year, I came to recognize how flawed the Nordic model is, and so I believed that complete decriminalization was the right path... though I still find myself second guessing that. I know that there are many people who legitimately want to be in sex work, but because of how much exploitation and human trafficking there is, I still feel that (generally) men who are paying for sex aren't in the right. I think of that as a "bad" thing, because they could be exploiting sex workers, and I guess I just have my lifetime's baggage of just viewing sex work as "wrong." When I lived in Japan, I was disturbed by hearing men talk about going to soaplands or nozoki-beya (JP source only. sorry). Perhaps the answer is to not think of them as a monolith at all and judge individuals based on personal exploitation, but I just keep coming back to the thought that "Those men seem wrong to me." It's a whole 'nother story, but I may have trouble with positive thoughts on men's sexuality, because of some personal experiences of mine.

In order to fully support sex workers, should I also be viewing their customers differently?
 

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,573
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
in germany it's not perfect, since sex trafficking still happens with people that fall through cracks

but since sex work is a legal profession, it means that workers get full protection of german labour laws, which are among the strongest in the world overall. the welfare system overall applies to them with healthcare and pension too. they also have specific laws for them

it's better than having it all criminalised where sex workers have no avenue like in other countries where it's criminalised.

again, people *do* slip through cracks, they land up working for street pimps and such where it's difficult for the law/government/etc to help them, more work
needs to be done to reduce that. if you use sex worker services then it's the moral and ethical thing to do it through the right places, then i think it's right, if they go through illegal channels of course I don't think those people are in the right that use the services. also i think all women that work (i.e. not through illegal street pimps) also by law control who their clients can be, not the brothel employer for example. the nordic model for it has never made sense to me because it just encourages exploitation because of non-mutual and controlling relationships as clients have to setup some sort of communication avenue and do things to avoid being caught for it being illegal as a client. the system just makes no sense, always seemed to me to be something that was hindered by conservatism from being fully decriminalised.

and in germany there is also a lot of gay sex work, at least to me as a german it has always appeared that way when you go to certain parts of the cities, which you don't see in most countries. then again just sex in germany is seen differently, we don't hide sex shops for example in dodgy places of cities, you can find them right in busy city centres with windows filled with sex toys lol
 
Last edited:

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
There's the ok type of sex work where the people doing it are more or less their own bosses and vet their clients thoroughly with a set of rules and regulations that have to be followed at all times and then there's the fucked up sex work where it's basically a sex pyramid scheme.
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782
My initial, very uninformed opinion on it is that there will always be people that are exploited, so better that it is decriminalized for the ones who are not, and law focuses their efforts on pinpointing the real victims. If you're a legit customer of an unexploited worker, then you shouldn't be criminalized, but so to you should do your due diligence and not frequent exploited/illegal victims who are working and suffering. Those who do should be criminalized.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
That's the tension:

Sex workers should be protected not shamed or imprisoned.
Johns are often scum and create a market with often horrifying consequences.
Pimps are an affront to god and create much of the danger outside of the Johns - and often imprison or enslave workers.


The real answer is to create a society where that kind of work is not the only option for poor, damaged or vulnerable people - and if there is a regulated industry that it is safe and fair for its workers.

The problem with that is that the demand outstrips the supply even in an ideal world. If there are well paying safe jobs that don't require exploitation of your body, then those will be preferable I imagine for the majority of would be workers. That would lead to a market where prices were high, supply low and workers voluntary - effectively becoming a luxury service of sorts.
 

kittens

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
Decriminalize and support sex worker rights and wellbeing. Support sex worker collectives and cooperatives.
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
Exploited sex workers is of course a huge problem, which is why it's a profession that needs to be heavily, heavily regulated. And yes, it should definitely be legal on both sides. Sex between two consenting adults should never be made illegal (except for incest, obviously).
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
It's true that there is a lot of exploitation in sex work, but I think the solution is to fight said exploitation rather than punish sex workers. And it's way harder to fight exploitation when it's illegal.
I think it certainly a problem that poverty is pushing people to that line of work who would have not done so otherwise, but I think the solution to that is to tackle poverty in earnest, not punish people based on how they chose to try an escape it. This is a problem that exists in many vocations.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,857
Just to preface this so certain mods don't get the wrong ideas about me I have my own personal experiences to offer to this Op.

I don't feel I was exploited or others exploited me when I was young adult and did some during my college and kink phase. I also hate the exploitation argument because if you live in a capaitist country or any that derives it power from similar mechanisms the level of exploitation going on already as bad sex trafficing. I literally could spend most of this day with various issues talking about exploitation especially jobs in general, taxes or the medical industry.

Some men have no real options so I find sex workers are good stop gap until society evolves in relationship dynamics.

I will not beat up on males and their sexual activities if we are discussing things in a consensual manner. You cannot know all a customers reasons for wanting sex and I found through experience there is a lot of shit the average person can never know about another and why they may want a sex worker once or a few times over their lives. Very few people are repeats beyond a handful of a few times.

I love your thoughts stinkles especially about pimps so fucking true.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,635
I'll make a big post on this later, when I get home. I'm someone who's currently dating a sex worker who I met as a client last year, so not only am I familiar with the sex worker side but also the client side of it. (yea I admitted it because fuck that, she's a part of my life now). It's legal in UK btw.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Sex workers were the original self-owned businesses from history. It's religion which later came in and attached all these arbitrary taboos on sex.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,887
London
My opinion on this is that neither selling nor buying should be illegal. Pushing it underground does nothing to fight the abuse and exploitation that exists. If you consensually want to exchange sex for money then you should be able to do so. The Nordic model is not even something the Nordic countries even agree upon because Denmark and Finland don't have those kind of laws.
 
OP
OP
Aurica

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
A mountain in the US
I feel that maybe my statements are being misinterpreted or not fully read by some. I stated that I am for complete decriminalization. My issue is my view on the customers.
Sex workers should be protected not shamed or imprisoned.
Johns are often scum and create a market with often horrifying consequences.
Pimps are an affront to god and create much of the danger outside of the Johns - and often imprison or enslave workers.
And on top of that, the police are often as bad as or worse than the johns.
Decriminalize and support sex worker rights and wellbeing. Support sex worker collectives and cooperatives.
I'm with you there, but what is your opinion on the clientele?
I'll make a big post on this later, when I get home. I'm someone who's currently dating a sex worker who I met as a client last year, so not only am I familiar with the sex worker side but also the client side of it. (yea I admitted it because fuck that, she's a part of my life now). It's legal in UK btw.
I'm interested to hear about what your SO has told you and your client-side view!
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
As someone who is intimately familiar with the industry, that documentary is utter bollocks.

It's the same old same old with a slightly different spice, but ultimately it's inaccurate and pushing it's own agenda to get viewers.


Can you cliff notes your counterpoints? I don't know enough to know what it got wrong. Or what the agenda was.
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
Just to preface this so certain mods don't get the wrong ideas about me I have my own personal experiences to offer to this Op.

I don't feel I was exploited or others exploited me when I was young adult and did some during my college and kink phase. I also hate the exploitation argument because if you live in a capaitist country or any that derives it power from similar mechanisms the level of exploitation going on already as bad sex trafficing. I literally could spend most of this day with various issues talking about exploitation especially jobs in general, taxes or the medical industry.

Some men have no real options so I find sex workers are good stop gap until society evolves in relationship dynamics.

I will not beat up on males and their sexual activities if we are discussing things in a consensual manner. You cannot know all a customers reasons for wanting sex and I found through experience there is a lot of shit the average person can never know about another and why they may want a sex worker once or a few times over their lives. Very few people are repeats beyond a handful of a few times.

I love your thoughts stinkles especially about pimps so fucking true.
Do you have any stories to tell about your experiences? If it's too personal, don't worry about it.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,635
Can you cliff notes your counterpoints? I don't know enough to know what it got wrong. Or what the agenda was.
Yea sure. I'll try to be as detailed as possible about my own exp and what my GF as well as the other sex workers have told me.

Edit: infact I can link you to a thread on a forum where both sex workers and clients interact. It's just a forum like this with banter, discussions etc on politics, games, music, mental health, everyday things, sex work etc. With a separate section for advertising. You can read their exact thoughts on the documentary as there is a thread on it.

Provided I don't get banned for it.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I feel that maybe my statements are being misinterpreted or not fully read by some. I stated that I am for complete decriminalization. My issue is my view on the customers.
I think your issue is you're confusing the symptom (exploitation of sex workers) for the cause (men interested in easy sex) and you've got the idea that you can change the behavior of those men by regulating the sex work.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,857
Do you have any stories to tell about your experiences? If it's too personal, don't worry about it.

I'm a horrible story teller online and having to write it out, if were drinking or sharing a coffe it'd be a different thing.

No problem. I won't do stories but will experss my own experience without certain details if I see things in the thread that need clarity or a dynamic perspective.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I don't recall saying that.
That is the impression I'm picking up from this:
but I just keep coming back to the thought that "Those men seem wrong to me."
Those men would behave like that even with well-regulated sex work, not because of the sex workers, but because their culture pushes them to chase sex. Regulating sex work won't change the cultural expectation that men need to have as much sex as possible to feel masculine.
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
I'm a horrible story teller online and having to write it out, if were drinking or sharing a coffe it'd be a different thing.

No problem. I won't do stories but will experss my own experience without certain details if I see things in the thread that need clarity or a dynamic perspective.
It's all good.
 
OP
OP
Aurica

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
A mountain in the US
Those men would behave like that even with well-regulated sex work, not because of the sex workers, but because their culture pushes them to chase sex. Regulating sex work won't change the cultural expectation that men need to have as much sex as possible to feel masculine.
I recognize that regulation won't fix everything, but my intention with this thread was to see if I had (mostly) male customers all wrong and to see others' opinions on that facet of sex work.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,003
You can't say you support sex workers without supporting their customers, it's just performative. Without people paying for sex work the profession doesn't exist.
Maybe you should try acually talking to sex workers rather than making a thread on here.
 

kittens

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
I'm with you there, but what is your opinion on the clientele?
People seeking the services of sex workers would in general be a lot healthier and less dangerous if sex work was decriminalized and destigmatized. There's nothing wrong about paying for sex, or seeking out sex, or seeking out sexual support. I think if we normalize healthy sexual desire and sex work, everyone will benefit.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
I recognize that regulation won't fix everything, but my intention with this thread was to see if I had (mostly) male customers all wrong and to see others' opinions on that facet of sex work.
Firstly, I'm curious about what you consider sex work. Are we talking physical interactions, or are you also speaking to things like cam workers and sex lines? Do people who make a living off of selling nudes and videos fit under your definition as well? The purview of the phrase "sex work" has grown substantially over the years.
 
OP
OP
Aurica

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
A mountain in the US
Surprised this hasn't been posted yet— Philosophy Tube's dive into the impacts of sex work laws, stigma, exploitation, etc

Yeah, this is a very informative video.
People seeking the services of sex workers would in general be a lot healthier and less dangerous if sex work was decriminalized and destigmatized. There's nothing wrong about paying for sex, or seeking out sex, or seeking out sexual support. I think if we normalize healthy sexual desire and sex work, everyone will benefit.
I do think you're right there. I have to get over my own tendency to be part of that stigma.
Firstly, I'm curious about what you consider sex work. Are we talking physical interactions, or are you also speaking to things like cam workers and sex lines? Do people who make a living off of selling nudes and videos fit under your definition as well? The purview of the phrase "sex work" has grown substantially over the years.
My view of sex work is stripping, porn, camming, paid sex, etc., but this thread was specifically about customers of paid sex.
You have no idea how far off base you are heh
Well, that's really the point of this thread, so please educate me.
You can't say you support sex workers without supporting their customers, it's just performative. Without people paying for sex work the profession doesn't exist.
I recognize that contradiction, so I made this thread to help myself recontextualize and overcome the stigma.
Maybe you should try acually talking to sex workers rather than making a thread on here.
How would you recommend going about that?
 
Last edited:

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
It's been a thing for thousands of years and always will be. Making it a crime just gives the abusing and exploiting piece of shit pimps and human trafficers more control.

100% legal is the correct way to go.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
My view of sex work is stripping, porn, camming, paid sex, etc., but this thread was specifically about customers of paid sex.
Gotcha, I just wanted to make sure!

I think your view on the customers of paid sex is a little archaic, to put it bluntly. There's a lot of autonomy on the sex work field these days, with websites that allow sex workers to post independent advertisements. This opens the door for screening on their clients, letting them have the option of seeing someone or not. There are a fair number of sex workers that require you to have a social media account to even be considered. Your view also removes any amount of agency that sex workers may have.

What you're thinking about looks to be the sort of sex work that involves picking a girl up off of the street and just sorta going from there?

I do think the general stigma around clients is an incorrect one, as you don't know what circumstances lead to becoming a client. There are dudes who have a perfectly healthy relationship with that part of their sexuality. While there are women who are exploited by sex work, you can equivocate that with exploitation within most any capitalistic systems. Someone is suffering substantially for your gain, no matter what you do.

Full legalization is the way to go so long as support systems are in place. Just because something is legal doesn't mean that sex workers will gain the same rights as other freelancers. Or even clients being safe; There's a whole 'nother side to this where the client is in need of protections as well. Things like STD exams sit high on that list.
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,621
Texas
If you're okay with people selling sex why would you be hung up on people buying it?

I think for a long time society has painted sex workers as being gross/broken people and the johns as being sadistic violent sex-hungry maniacs, and now that the truth about sex work is becoming more apparent to the masses and our opinions about sex workers are changing and we are seeing them as real people(tm) finally, the same thing can't be said for the johns.

I think OP still sees johns in a negative light and is wondering if there's any data on them that could perhaps change his mind, just like his mind was changed on sex workers.
 
OP
OP
Aurica

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
A mountain in the US
If you're okay with people selling sex why would you be hung up on people buying it?
It's partially my own outdated prejudice stemming from social stigmas, but there is more to it that I can't rationally get away from, which is why I wanted to see other perspectives. For many years, I saw men paying for sex as a culpability in exploitation, whether they were aware of it or not. It's like how there is a lot of pornography made through exploitation (there's obviously a ton created completely ethically, too), so how can one take part in it ethically without completely knowing the background of the person? How does one pay for sex and know they aren't participating in exploitation of someone coerced or forced into the work? That's the part I can't get around. In a perfect society, the only people being paid for sex are those who chose to do that work, but because that isn't how it is, I have a hard time viewing all men (or women) paying for sex as ethical.
Your view also removes any amount of agency that sex workers may have.

What you're thinking about looks to be the sort of sex work that involves picking a girl up off of the street and just sorta going from there?
I think you've got me all wrong. Please read my above reply. While I recognize that there are many methods to provide women with control and safety in the work, my concern stems from all those who are not doing it because they want to.
 
Last edited:

iksenpets

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,496
Dallas, TX
I don't think there's any way you can say the clientele is by default bad and worthy of scorn and suppression once you've accepted there's potential value in the workers serving that clientele. It's a hard thing to manage, because you need to 1.) respect the workers' rights to do their work, and 2.) still protect them from the fact that their services will attract some number of violent men without relying on equally violent pimps, repressive government brothels, or potentially coercive corporate brothels. But once you have a system like that, I think you have to accept that any john who follows the rules isn't doing anything that should be viewed as bad. Without that sort of system, of course, all but the most cautious johns are probably funding some terrible things and/or receiving services from exploited workers, but if you could deliver the services safely and fairly, then buying is no more wrong than selling.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,635
So I'll start it off with a background on myself, and how I got involved as a client. I'm in my late 20s, pretty confident, physically fit, post graduate (even did a bit of PhD), and very sociable. I've dated plenty of stunners throughout my time, both in serious terms and casual. Yet I chose to see sex workers last year. Now why is that? Well I was out of a bad relationship and I just wanted to have some sex without having to bother with the actual dating element of it considering all I wanted was casual sex. I just had no time or patience for that kind of effort. So I met my first sex worker last year in Feb, this Polish girl who was the same age as me. To date she remains one of the most amazing and intelligent woman I've ever met hands down. She had worked all kinds of job, but got involved in sex work around 3 years ago. And since then she has had a very business minded attitude towards it as she has a goal to hit after which she wants to stop. She has a kid in States who she supports with the money she makes in UK. I met my current GF last year in summer as a client, I met her a total of 4 times as a client before we decided to change the nature of our relationship and we became friends...things just sort of took off from there after that. My GF is inherently an artist who has been a part time sex worker for about 1.5 years now. Her goal is to have a financial cushion when she retires and looks for creative work. She actually thought of quitting last month but then realised an impromptu decision without planning wasn't going to work.

Anyways now on to describing sex work itself. There is a big big misunderstanding that sex trafficking is what makes up for majority of the sex industry. Atleast in UK, the absolute majority of sex workers are independent (fully legal) or semi independent, i.e. they work for an agency who advertises and handles the communications with the client (also fully legal). Working as a sex worker is a tough job, advertising yourself is a very very time consuming process as not only do you have to advertise and be on top of things, but also constantly communicate with potential clients, as well as current clients. Basically even when the girls aren't working...they are working. Competition especially in cities like London is...insane ! And the cost of booking hotels is even more insane, as a note I should add the cost of booking hotel falls on the sex worker herself. These girls are also likely to be cleaner and safer than any of your random sex encounter as they get tested as often as possible, and have a strict policy on condoms. While there are some women who would offer bareback (slang for no condoms), and some clients who want to push for that, they are in the minority. Majority of the clients won't see any girl who is known to be a barebacker, and majority of girls won't advertise bareback. I am in a relationship and I still use a condom because my GF is still working, and it's for the best for both of us to keep things safe while she is still in the industry.

Then there are brothels (illegal) but these aren't your typical sleeze fest that you see in films/TVs/documentaries. They are more like your typical agency, except with rooms available on site. I've personally never been to one, but they are well run. The rooms are like hotel rooms and the girls well taken care of, the girls also choose their own working days and working time. Some girls work as an independent, but on certain days will work at a brothel, some girls exclusively work independently and some exclusively at brothels...etc etc. The thing about brothels is that despite being illegal, the police usually don't really care about them and have an understanding with the owners. This is because these brothels are well run and the girls are kept safe. And the police would rather spend their resources on cracking down trafficking.


Now on to the clients, there is no particular "type" of client. You have men from all ranges, from all classes, from all background seeing sex workers. These are some of the types of clients you see:

1) Young men who just want a no frills date like situation with guaranteed sex. (Myself)
2) Men (any age) who just want to see as many women as possible.
3) Men (older) in a sexless marriage. I'm talking 5-10 years of no sex (yea seems unreal but it happens). Often these people have had an understanding with their wife to seek sexual gratification elsewhere.
4) Young guys who just want to be confident around a woman, especially in an intimate environment.
5) Couples who want to introduce a bit of spice in their sex life.
6) Men who want to experience things and fulfil their fantasy (threesome, anal, dom etc etc) because their ex partners/partners would not allow for it.

etc etc. The list is endless. You could have someone in your friend circle RIGHT NOW who sees sex workers and you'd be none the wiser !!

My GF told me that the majority of the clients she met were absolutely amazing. Some were so good that she got butterflies while interacting with them. Something that she didn't get even with me despite having a chemistry with me, and yet I'm the one she ended up with ultimately. Things just happen somehow hah. Anyhow majority of the clients are considerate and they WILL not see a sex worker if they predict foul play/trafficking. And it IS easy to tell whether a girl is independent, semi independent, or has a pimp. There is also a pattern, in that you have a higher chance of someone being pimped if they are from a certain nationality (particularly speaking Romanians, but that's not to say there aren't independent Romanian escorts).

Making sex work legal but buying sex illegal is a terrible idea. The reason for this being while it protects the women who are trafficked . It completely destroys the livelihood of legit sex workers who run a business. These women chose to do sex work out of their own free will, no they are not mentally unstable, no they do not have childhood trauma, no they do not have any deep underlying issues which is what's often protrayed. They just chose to do sex work...end of story. This is one of the BIGGEST things people refuse to understand because the media keeps portraying the girls as flawed, or damaged. A lot of my friends are aware of my history with sex workers, as well as my GF. Most have been accepting of it. Except one, who kept talking about how it's illegal and what not (she's a lawyer but didn't know the law regarding sex work). She was like a sister to me, and her family knows me and we go back years. I was asked by her to choose between her or my GF. I told her I'll pick the person who's not making me choose because who I date doesn't really affect you in any way. And the irony is that before she knew about my GF's line of work...she absolutely adored her and her personality. Eventually that friend cut me off and I was ok with it. Her choice.

These women approach it with the same amount of flair as any independent business while putting in blood and sweat into it. It's not really fair to them if their source of income i.e. their clients are criminalised. I know sex workers who have a normal full time job, but still open up for sex work for 3-4 hours/4-5 days a week. Yes some of them make bank, enough to start thinking about registering for VAT because they earn over the cap of £80K a year. But majority of the girls don't earn that much, they just live a decent/comfortable life. Sex work is still work that takes a lot of effort, but it does allow you with a lot more time for you to focus on your own well being and life. And that is one of the main attractions of sex work to girls who are full time sex workers and want to keep doing it for a while. And having regular good sex, while meeting interesting people is a side benefit of it.


I'll write more as I think of it. I'll take any questions if people have any regarding my own relationship or experiences.
 
Last edited:

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,003
How would you recommend going about that?

There's plenty of websites where you can get in touch with them, that I'm guessing I'm not allowed to mention here. While I'm sure there are some sex workers that are trafficked I'm sure the number is much smaller than you're thinking.
I'm not sure why you're thinking paying for sex is inherently exploitative. It's really no different than other labor, and you're just as likely to exploit someone by buying something from Starbucks or Amazon as a guy paying for sex.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,635
If it's ok with the mods I will link to a forum. Where people can read threads by real sex workers and clients, and see how they are just like you guys here in terms of interaction and forum topics. You can even get opinions on the sex industry itself there. It's a normal forum like this, with an advertising section for each region of UK. It's even made in Xenforo like this forum.

If not, I can link in PM if people ask for it.
 

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,093
Make it legal except for pimping, makes it much easier for cooperation when they're also protected and in turn easier trackdown the traffikers and those being unwillingly/illegally exploited.
 
OP
OP
Aurica

Aurica

音楽オタク - Comics Council 2020
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
A mountain in the US
Help OP with how to do that?
I am getting some condescending responses despite pointing out that I need to be educated on this from the beginning. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I'm consistently bad at being an OP on this site. Part of it is probably being too engaged. I should just ask a question and sit back without feeling like I need to defend myself from others' assumptions about me.
 

coldsagging

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,895
I could give some insight into this discussion, as it is I'm on the way to work atm but if anyone is interested I don't mind talking about it. I've seen independent workers and been to brothels. I happen to live in a bit of a brothel hotspot I s'pose, one of them is a long standing family business which was run by a mother (not a worker) and she's recently passed it down to her daughter ( also not a worker).

Just quickly for the record. I've met some wonderful people in the industry and it was always very safe for all parties and highly professional.
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,621
Texas
Good info and examples, Nooblet

I'm currently in a mode of not wanting to be in a romantic relationship due to still recovering from an extremely bad breakup in September. I'd like to still have some sort of sex life though, and one-night-stands are a bad idea for MANY reasons. (not guaranteed, unsure how safe they are, could be cheating and now you're in danger from the partner/spouse, drinking often involved, etc.) Without any outlet other than masturbation, which gets old and is unfulfilling, sometimes we require another human being to aid us with these needs.

If sex work was legalized/decriminalized, I could hop on an app, book an appointment with someone, provide my background information, meet, discuss consent/needs/desires/safety, do our thing, pay her a fair fee for her services, and we both leave safe and sound. No different than going and getting a haircut. (though pricing is obviously different, ha)

Now sure, not all johns or potential johns are in my situation, but you have to think of how many people out there are just like me, and if it was legalized and made safe and regulated could suddenly get their needs and desires met without having to do anything risky or unsafe. Those types would suddenly "enter" the "market" (ugh, i hate using these terms). And that's just THIS ONE EXAMPLE. There are people with disabilities that unfortunately make it difficult for them to find partners or any sexual satisfaction, and if sex work was a safe legal service that could easily solve the problem.

And the scum? It would be easier for them to be caught with screenings, it would be easier for the sex workers to keep themselves safe and refuse service without worrying about consequences, if the cops are called the sex workers wouldn't have to worry about being arrested, etc. etc.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,157
NYC
It's partially my own outdated prejudice stemming from social stigmas, but there is more to it that I can't rationally get away from, which is why I wanted to see other perspectives. For many years, I saw men paying for sex as a culpability in exploitation, whether they were aware of it or not. It's like how there is a lot of pornography made through exploitation (there's obviously a ton created completely ethically, too), so how can one take part in it ethically without completely knowing the background of the person? How does one pay for sex and know they aren't participating in exploitation of someone coerced or forced into the work? That's the part I can't get around. In a perfect society, the only people being paid for sex are those who chose to do that work, but because that isn't how it is, I have a hard time viewing all men (or women) paying for sex as ethical.

I think you've got me all wrong. Please read my above reply. While I recognize that there are many methods to provide women with control and safety in the work, my concern stems from all those who are not doing it because they want to.
Understood, thanks for clarifying. The stigma you're working under is trying to ascribe purpose to reason and I think there's no way to come out "ethically clean" so to speak. You can't ever know everyone's circumstance, and assuming that those circumstances only arose because someone is paying for sexual gratification is going to leave you paralyzed when it comes to this sort of topic.

As I said in my earlier post, someone is suffering greatly for your benefit at all times. Saying that it's your fault is ignoring the systemic reasoning for that suffering in the first place.
 

Camwi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,375
If it's ok with the mods I will link to a forum. Where people can read threads by real sex workers and clients, and see how they are just like you guys here in terms of interaction and forum topics. You can even get opinions on the sex industry itself there. It's a normal forum like this, with an advertising section for each region of UK. It's even made in Xenforo like this forum.

If not, I can link in PM if people ask for it.
Maybe PM a mod first with the link? I'd like to read the thread you're talking about, but don't want you to catch a ban.

I am getting some condescending responses despite pointing out that I need to be educated on this from the beginning. I'm not sure what I did wrong, but I'm consistently bad at being an OP on this site. Part of it is probably being too engaged. I should just ask a question and sit back without feeling like I need to defend myself from others' assumptions about me.
Don't worry too much about some of the snippy posts. I think you're doing a good job of being open and starting a healthy discussion.