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Evolved1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,619
If Jason says it's DS, it's DS. I'd need some very compelling evidence to be convinced otherwise. He is consistent and doesn't weigh in on stuff he doesn't have information on (without making it clear).
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,856
the Netherlands
I can actually talk about this a bit. Now keep in my I'm a bit murky on the details, this is from my understanding also, I'm going to try to get what I've heard as accurate as possible but I'm also cutting parts of this out. I'm also about to say some controversial things for some, so be ready. None of this is from any source I personally can verify, but it is what I've heard.

Death Stranding was a flop. It sold well initially, but I've heard it has over 3 million unsold copies of what's been produced, but the sales kinda' slowed to a crawl and the game hasn't done as well as anyone involved has been hoping. Death Stranding was also originally supposed to be a very different game, a lot darker and more horror-esque, but around a year and a half before launch the development got soft rebooted. Sony and Kojima had some disagreements, and some other studios at Sony's Worldwide Studios were a bit upset at the money Kojima was getting for the game, along with disagreements lead to Death Stranding not ending up as a PS5 game and a sharper window for release even after the soft reboot. There's a looooot more here, but this is the part I'll share that's relevant.

So originally Sony and Konami came to a deal when Konami was shopping around for Silent Hill developers, I am not entirely clear on the details but Toyama had been interested in doing a horror game, but the Siren IP is kinda' more of a niche thing and would get a lower budget. Somehow, I wish I was more clear on the details, but SOMEHOW a few variables fells into place that Sony went out of their way to work with Konami to allow Toyama to work on a horror game, but a horror game with more recognition behind it than Siren, which of course I mean Silent Hill. Sony also seemed to have the idea since Death Stranding was a loss for them that getting Kojima to finally work on a horror game like he's been wanting to, have Konami help fit the bill for Kojima's and Toyama's game (as Konami was going to help fund whatever game anyways). There was some Japanese pride on Kojima Pro's side since Death Stranding didn't do too great, so they want to prove themselves more. Sony is fine with that but not to make a game without as bloated of a budget as DS, and they believe that a horror game or even a Silent Hill game as a brand with recognition and already pre-built hype with his named attached might make more financial return for them and be a strong title for their platform. Kojima making a horror game and making Silent Hills has hype behind it, Toyama and Team Silent members returning to make a new Silent Hill game has hype behind it, and Sony and Konami were able to strike a deal that made both parties happy and mutually benefited both of them.

This is a super oversimplification, but basically Konami just wanted someone to make a good Silent Hill game and was willing to fund the pitch they selected, Sony was interested due to what Toyama wanted for his next project and the possibility of getting Kojima to do a smaller budget game after Death Stranding was a failure which they believe would have interest for gamers, and a deal was worked out with Sony and Konami both funding these projects (though let me clarify, the Kojima game is still in the talks at this point in time).
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,536
Like I already said, makes total sense for all parties.

Sony giving Kojima another shot after Death Stranding seems to have failed expectations is another positive outcome out of this.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,856
the Netherlands
Like holy fuck if those 3mil unsold copies are true.... and that's just physical, not even accounting for the digital copies Sony expected to sell but didn't.
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,854
Puts Barlog's comment about not having the same clout as Kojima in a different light. SIE devs being pissed at Sony for pumping cash directly into Kojima's bank account for him to run around getting Hollywood actors.... I can see that.

If Golem is not BSing... Good on Sony for giving Toyama, Team Siren, and the OG Team Silent members the main SH revival project. They can work out Kojima's project later, but Toyama and Team Siren deserve it more than anyone.
 

Caiops

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,107
If this is true, Sony probably shipped 5 million of copies.

Surprised to see Sony still interested in working with him after that
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,856
the Netherlands
The only thing which makes me question those $3mil+ unsold copies is the fact that if that was true I would expect the game to be in the bargain bin at retailers by now :p. When you have 3mil copies just lying around it's time to go to the $10 range.
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,536
The only thing which makes me question those $3mil+ unsold copies is the fact that if that was true I would expect the game to be in the bargain bin at retailers by now :p. When you have 3mil copies just lying around it's time to go to the $10 range.

Game is still coming out on PC. Probably don't want to devalue it before launch.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,712
Who's ready for The Last of Us: Factions releasing on PS4, PS5, and PC?
I'm gonna be selfish and hope that Factions is only on PS5 and PC. Sure they will leave a LARGE market behind but I don't want it to be held behind by the old tech and lord knows how long until Sony pulls the plug on the PS4 servers. I think a fresh start on a new system could do wonder for the game in the long run.

Of course they could always pull a GTA Online and support both gens until they start doing some that the old gen system can't handle.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Puts Barlog's comment about not having the same clout as Kojima in a different light.

If Golem is not BSing... Good on Sony for giving Toyama, Team Siren, and the OG Team Silent members the main SH revival project. They can work out Kojima's project later, but Toyama and Team Siren deserve it more than anyone.

Yap.

Let's hope the EU boys can lead this team to the right track and if Cory didnt left, then i hope they already succeed at that
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,065
...

Is there even a point of producing that many copies in the first place? Don't they look at pre-orders or something?

Gotta be honest, the first thing that came to my mind when reading that first paragraph was that this is bullshit. Also the disagreement part and other studios being upset about it, seems like nonsense drama. And we know Kojima explained the core concept of the game to Keighley way back so I don't really buy that soft-reboot thing, especially considering how fast the game was made all things considered.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,856
the Netherlands
The adult diaper industry if Sony, Kojima and Konami were indeed to revive Silent Hills as a PS5 title with PSVR2 support
2f0.png
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,536
Sony doesn't have much stake in the PC version though because they're not the publisher (I'm sure they'll still get a cut considering they own the IP and funded development) and I doubt the IP has much of a future.

Sure, but 505 Games is partnering with Sony. Would be a bad look for Sony to let 505 publish the game on PC but then devalue the game before launch.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Cory as in Barlog? What does he have to do with any of this?

Cory made a comment that he has no kojima in terms of bring the game(God of War) to pc, basicaly Sony payed anything and gave everything to Kojima just to have the console exclusive and it backfire.

Now, they will continue to work with him but on a smaller project and give the "big budget" to Sony Japan. That is how i see that coment from the Mod.
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,854
Yap.

Let's hope the EU boys can lead this team to the right track and if Cory didnt left, then i hope they already succeed at that
Barlog tweeted "Welcome aboard" to a dev celebrating on Twitter about joining Santa Monica. Then SM called Cory "our very own", when they shared a video op about him.

I think he is sticking around...
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,308
Cory made a comment that he has no kojima in terms of bring the game(God of War) to pc, basicaly Sony payed anything and gave everything to Kojima just to have the console exclusive and it backfire.

Now, they will continue to work with him but on a smaller project and give the "big budget" to Sony Japan. That is how i see that coment from the Mod.

Oh, okay then. But i'd point out that's just Cory's self-deprecating humor. He's not being serious.
 

GamingCJ

Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,907
Like holy fuck if those 3mil unsold copies are true.... and that's just physical, not even accounting for the digital copies Sony expected to sell but didn't.
I'm a little sceptical regarding those 3mil unsold copies. Since there hasn't been a single copy of DS at my biggest local retailer, I always assumed Sony didn't produce and ship that many copies to begin with.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
Oh, okay then. But i'd point out that's just Cory's self-deprecating humor. He's not being serious.

Oh for sure, i dont think Cory whould trow anyone under the bus.

Barlog tweeted "Welcome aboard" to a dev celebrating on Twitter about joining Santa Monica. Then SM called Cory "our very own", when they shared a video op about him.

I think he is sticking around...

I, kind think, that after the sucessed of God Of War he his making is own game with is new team.

I also think that Horizon and Days Gone have received massive investment for their sequels and this 2 games overperfomed.
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,854
-Keep Cory in house at all cost
-It's Toyama's time to shine
-Kojima is not worth being a money sink for SIE
-SIE needs to Intervene with ND before we get our very own Bioware

Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
 

GamingCJ

Member
Apr 14, 2019
1,907
Sure, but 505 Games is partnering with Sony. Would be a bad look for Sony to let 505 publish the game on PC but then devalue the game before launch.
I don't think that's how it works. Sony has never had much of an investment in that PC port. It was even announced right before the PS4 launch, hurting its sales.
In the end every publisher makes their own pricing, and no one eats costs to make the other one look better.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,065
Reading that part again...

Death Stranding was also originally supposed to be a very different game, a lot darker and more horror-esque, but around a year and a half before launch the development got soft rebooted.

Game had a E3 trailer around a year and a half before release and the game ended up being exactly what was shown there. Also Kojima always talked about the rope and not the stick (bringing people together) being the focus of the game since he announced it.

This is just bullshit.
 

DreamSurf

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,715
Reading that part again...



Game had a E3 trailer around a year and a half before release and the game ended up being exactly what was shown there. Also Kojima always talked about the rope and not the stick (bringing people together) being the focus of the game since he announced it.

This is just bullshit.
Total bullshit. The first few trailers are scene for scene in the game. Shit kojima said day 1 is in the game lol. Big bullshit. Hate when people lie.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
Reading that part again...



Game had a E3 trailer around a year and a half before release and the game ended up being exactly what was shown there. Also Kojima always talked about the rope and not the stick (bringing people together) being the focus of the game since he announced it.

This is just bullshit.
I can respond directly. To clarify by soft reboot from what I've heard, it's not like everything or even most things were tossed out, the soft reboot came mainly due to disagreements I hear. It was moreso on some of the content Kojima wanted to do rather than redoing the whole story or the like. The game was supposed to be more horrific and much darker, but Sony didn't really like it for the title and thought some things were going too far to be a more broad title for audiences. The budget was cut a bit and the game decided when it was going to release around two years before, and aspects of it soft rebooted for around a year and a half before launch. Some things also fell into place with where certain other titles looked like they were landing at the time.
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
I can respond directly. To clarify by soft reboot from what I've heard, it's not like everything or even most things were tossed out, the soft reboot came mainly due to disagreements I hear. It was moreso on some of the content Kojima wanted to do rather than redoing the whole story or the like. The game was supposed to be more horrific and much darker, but Sony didn't really like it for the title and thought some things were going too far to be a more broad title for audiences. The budget was cut a bit and the game decided when it was going to release around two years before, and aspects of it soft rebooted for around a year and a half before launch. Some things also fell into place with where certain other titles looked like they were landing at the time.
Thanks for answering our questions :) Is konami co funding this or just letting them borrow the IP? Any chance that Konami is shopping around their other IPs *cough*Suikoden*cough*. Castlevania should probably in the forefront too given the Netflix push
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,536


Will be interessting to see how this will effect console sales this late in current gen and so close to next gen.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
Thanks for answering our questions :) Is konami co funding this or just letting them borrow the IP? Any chance that Konami is shopping around their other IPs *cough*Suikoden*cough*. Castlevania should probably in the forefront too given the Netflix push
Konami still definitely owns the IP as I've heard very directly they're looking also for other Silent Hill related multimedia projects and heard Konami and Sony were both fitting the bill for these project budgets. I actually don't know anyone within Konami myself so I don't know what else they're up to, everything I've heard from SH is mostly through other people and I'm more just being the public mouth piece.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,065
I can respond directly. To clarify by soft reboot from what I've heard, it's not like everything or even most things were tossed out, the soft reboot came mainly due to disagreements I hear. It was moreso on some of the content Kojima wanted to do rather than redoing the whole story or the like. The game was supposed to be more horrific and much darker, but Sony didn't really like it for the title and thought some things were going too far to be a more broad title for audiences. The budget was cut a bit and the game decided when it was going to release around two years before, and aspects of it soft rebooted for around a year and a half before launch. Some things also fell into place with where certain other titles looked like they were landing at the time.

Thank you for clarifying but I'm sorry because I still don't buy it, if Sony was worried about the title not reaching a broader audience then I doubt they would even accept Kojima pitch of a "walking simulator" in the first place.

Don't want to be rude and I don't know how much trust you put on the source of this specific piece of info (iirc you were "burned" once regarding incorrect info about Sekiro being passed to you, also regarding it being a "horror" game or something) but the things we know from what Kojima said makes this questionable.
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,854
I can respond directly. To clarify by soft reboot from what I've heard, it's not like everything or even most things were tossed out, the soft reboot came mainly due to disagreements I hear. It was moreso on some of the content Kojima wanted to do rather than redoing the whole story or the like. The game was supposed to be more horrific and much darker, but Sony didn't really like it for the title and thought some things were going too far to be a more broad title for audiences. The budget was cut a bit and the game decided when it was going to release around two years before, and aspects of it soft rebooted for around a year and a half before launch. Some things also fell into place with where certain other titles looked like they were landing at the time.
If this is true. Before people go off on Sony for not backing some of Kojima's more extreme creative choices. Sony probably sunk an insane amount of money into the game's budget, handed Kojima SIE's best engine, funded his studio, gave him almost 100 SIE devs as support for the game, let him release the game on PC, and funded his Hollywood hiring spree. Sony would have been WELL within their right to having input.
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Konami still definitely owes the IP as I've heard very directly they're looking also for other Silent Hill related multimedia projects. I actually don't know anyone within Konami myself, everything I've heard from SH is mostly through other people and I'm more just being the public mouth piece.
Thanks, kinda weird that they're pushing for SH though I mean they have bigger IPs like MGS and Castlevania (?). So it probably means that the other IPs could be in different development/shopping around scenario too. I hope they pull a "Konami is back" next gen.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,070
Well well well...you know what ima let it rock lol

Sanji lol.
But yeah you can see Sony pump huge amount of money ,man power and give away into DS.
They were expecting at least 5 million copies and a new big IP.
But got something that must sold 3 million the most so far.

Thanks, kinda weird that they're pushing for SH though I mean they have bigger IPs like MGS and Castlevania (?). So it probably means that the other IPs could be in different development/shopping around scenario too. I hope they pull a "Konami is back" next gen.

Well SH was already multimedia since it had two movies back in the day and they would be cheap to make a new one .
MGS movie was suppose to come out for years now so you can see they trying with that .
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Sanji lol.
But yeah you can see Sony pump huge amount of money ,man power and give away into DS.
They were expecting at least 5 million copies and a new big IP.
But got something that must sold 3 million the most so far.



Well SH was already multimedia since it had two movies back in the day and they would be cheap to make a new one .
MGS movie was suppose to come out for years now so you can see they trying with that .
For sure, what I meant was in terms of relevancy I think MGS and Castelvania comes before SH, so i'm assuming that both IPs having something too and not just SH no?
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
Thank you for clarifying but I'm sorry because I still don't buy it, if Sony was worried about the title not reaching a broader audience then I doubt they would even accept Kojima pitch of a "walking simulator" in the first place.

Don't want to be rude and I don't know how much trust you put on the source of this specific piece of info (iirc you were "burned" once regarding incorrect info about Sekiro being passed to you, also regarding it being a "horror" game or something) but the things we know from what Kojima said makes this questionable.

I think it's good to have skepticism. I'm going to say something, on the Death Stranding stuff I'm pretty sure it's accurate. This is hard to convey if you're not in the know-how, but the source is pretty valid for Kojima stuff. I guess one thing to look out for is to see if a Kojima written and Junji Ito drawn manga gets revealed this year, since I heard from the same person this is a thing and will be revealed pretty soon (along with some other things as "proof" of some things to come, but those are things I can't really share and the manga should be closest and least spoilery). They have proven themselves before with Death Stranding stuff, but I realize me saying what they have gotten right now that the time is past won't mean very much.

I was 100% wrong on Sekiro, I trusted the wrong person. I also can say I've been right on other things. My Konami sources are not one's I can personally validate, but I was given very strong evidence from more than one person, and the people behind it quite refutable. That said, even I'm not 100% convinced on everything, so I understand the skepticism and think you should keep at it. Take a grain of salt, despite me reporting on it and believing it I also could not say with 100% confidence it's accurate. What I can say is a lot more came up over the last few weeks and days which were a lot more concrete and I'm sharing on this with more evidence. This said, I'm not as confident in this as I am with some Capcom stuff, so it admittedly is a bit of a gamble on my part to share, even if I have some good reasons to believe in it.

I think healthy skepticism is good to have, and I want to make it clear where I'm coming from with all of this. I'm more being a mouth piece for a couple other people here, I agreed to and believe in what I'm saying mostly due to things shown and shared with me, but there's still definitely enough room to have reasonable doubt.
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
Sony funding not 1 but 2 Silent Hill games from Kojima and Toyama sounds too good to be true. Announcing them at the PS5 reveal alongside Demon Souls remake should be enough to shit all over PS4 reveal lineup.
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,854
I think it's good to have skepticism. I'm going to say something, on the Death Stranding stuff I'm pretty sure it's accurate. This is hard to convey if you're not in the know-how, but the source is pretty valid for Kojima stuff. I guess one thing to look out for is to see if a Kojima written and Junji Ito drawn manga gets revealed this year, since I heard from the same person this is a thing and will be revealed pretty soon (along with some other things as "proof" of some things to come, but those are things I can't really share and the manga should be closest and least spoilery). They have proven themselves before with Death Stranding stuff, but I realize me saying what they have gotten right now that the time is past won't mean very much.

I was 100% wrong on Sekiro, I trusted the wrong person. I also can say I've been right on other things. My Konami sources are not one's I can personally validate, but I was given very strong evidence from more than one person, and the people behind it quite refutable. That said, even I'm not 100% convinced on everything, so I understand the skepticism and think you should keep at it. Take a grain of salt, despite me reporting on it and believing it I also could not say with 100% confidence it's accurate. What I can say is a lot more came up over the last few weeks and days which were a lot more concrete and I'm sharing on this with more evidence. This said, I'm not as confident in this as I am with some Capcom stuff, so it admittedly is a bit of a gamble on my part to share, even if I have some good reasons to believe in it.

I think healthy skepticism is good to have, and I want to make it clear where I'm coming from with all of this. I'm more being a mouth piece for a couple other people here, I agreed to and believe in what I'm saying mostly due to things shown and shared with me, but there's still definitely enough room to have reasonable doubt.
Thanks for being transparant about it. We have heard too much about Sony investing hardcore into Horror at this point for me not to see this as a possibility. If it's SH, great! If it's something else Horror, great!
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,308
I have heard demos are not guarantees for boosting pre-orders. Seems that's not the case here.

I think it's more of just a case that if you don't nail the demo then it can hurt. Square were actually in a unique position with the the FF7R demo because unlike with other demos, they knew this was going to work. That was because they've released the same demo before back on the PSone when they made a FF7 demo of the Bombing Mission. It's just an incredible introduction to the game that's going to grab people every time.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,070
I think it's more of just a case that if you don't nail the demo then it can hurt. Square were actually in a unique position with the the FF7R demo because unlike with other demos, they knew this was going to work. That was because they've released the same demo before back on the PSone when they made a FF7 demo of the Bombing Run. It's just an incredible introduction to the game that's going to grab people every time.

Plus FF has a history of demos all the way back to PS 1 which never seem to effect them badly .
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,065
I think it's good to have skepticism. I'm going to say something, on the Death Stranding stuff I'm pretty sure it's accurate. This is hard to convey if you're not in the know-how, but the sources are pretty valid for Kojima stuff. I guess one thing to look out for is to see if a Kojima written and Junji Ito drawn manga gets revealed this year, since I heard from the same person this is a thing and will be revealed pretty soon (along with some other things as "proof", but those are things I can't really share). They have proven themselves before with Death Stranding stuff, but I realize me saying what they have gotten right now that the time is past won't mean very much.

Can't wait, hopefully it's true since I love Junji Ito manga and something made together with Kojima should be awesome.

I was 100% wrong on Sekiro, I trusted the wrong person. I also can say I've been right on other things. My Konami sources are not one's I can personally validate, but I was given very strong evidence from more than one person, and the people behind it quite refutable. That said, even I'm not 100% convinced on everything, so I understand the skepticism and think you should keep at it. Take a grain of salt, despite me reporting on it and believing it I also could not say with 100% confidence it's accurate. What I can say is a lot more came up over the last few weeks and days which were a lot more concrete and I'm sharing on this with more evidence. This said, I'm not as confident in this as I am with some Capcom stuff, so it admittedly is a bit of a gamble on my part to share, even if I have some good reasons to believe in it.

For the record when I see info from you I don't doubt it and I know other stuff you shared, but like I said that paragraph involves so much stuff (the huge shipment, people from other Sony studios complaining about budgets, game getting soft-rebooted when there are no apparent signs of it) that makes it harder to believe compared to the other things you shared.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,856
the Netherlands
I think it's more of just a case that if you don't nail the demo then it can hurt. Square were actually in a unique position with the the FF7R demo because unlike with other demos, they knew this was going to work. That was because they've released the same demo before back on the PSone when they made a FF7 demo of the Bombing Mission. It's just an incredible introduction to the game that's going to grab people every time.
Not to mention the risk of stuff leaking through datamining
 
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