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Maliq

Member
Oct 26, 2017
501
MS+Actib is $20b revenue. Tencent+Playstation would be $56b revenue. Why would you want the "competition" to have more than twice as much market share?
The thing is I don't think MS is going to stop.
The way I see MS is trying to integrate all of gaming in the long run. Xbox change its org structure to Microsoft gaming further proves it imo. They have distribution with GamePass and Xcloud, they have servers with Azure, they have huge gaming OS marketshare with Windows and Xbox and they're accumulating more and more content. They even have a pretty good presence in mobile gaming now.
SIE alone cannot compete with that even with a big acquisition like T2. But Tencent + Epic + Playstaion, different story.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
It's so awful man. This is only going to get worse, wonder how many of the big third party companies will be left by the end of the gen.

On another note, Crash and Spyro being Microsoft mascots now is so surreal. Xbox could have a really good roster for a potential Smash clone too lmao.
 
Jul 2, 2021
15,677
Saw the Activision thing before work. I don't remember news as massive as this in a good while, like holy shit, Bethesda is nothing compared to this. Let's hope MS brings some change in ActiBlizzard.

Now, turn for my obligatory "I fucking hate this". I've seen some suggest that Sony should buy S-E or whatever, but that'd be just as bad. It's awful that this is our current reality.
It fucking sucks and I hate it. But that's what Sony has to do now to compete.
Industry consolidation is happening. If Sony doesn't buy publishers, someone else will.
So if you're a PlayStation fan and PlayStation is your main platform, you hope Sony will go big.
Because having 3 big companies fight for the NUMBER ONE spot is better than having only one (Microsoft) while the other two are fighting for bread crumbs.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,129
MS has less gaming revenue because this HUGE MACHINE barely started.
The Bethesda acquisition kinda just happened. The heavy hitters are coming with and after Starfield.
The Activision-Blizzard acquisition isn't even done yet. Sony will lose their spot in north america. They already lost in Japan.
Europe will be the next big battle for them. All these huge acquisitions just happened. Game Pass just started.
You have to look in the future. Xbox in 2027 when this gen is over... will be gigantic. Their gaming revenue? Gigantic.

PlayStation won't have Call of Duty anymore. They will lose a huge chunk of the FPS community. A huge chunk of the revenue you mentioned. Spartacus vs Game Pass. Game Pass has all these monster IPs and Spartacus will have what?

I mean the one thing we don't know is how much growth Sony IP will have new and old this gen .
If they have another PS4 gen in terms of IP growth it can off set things along with some M&A and first party expansion .
The question is can they get another PS4 gen in term of new IP growth new and old .
 

Deluxera

Member
Mar 13, 2020
2,590
So if they were, it seems reasonable to assume that Sony will try and make a commensurate acquisition, or perhaps multiple. I said it earlier, but a Bungie + CDPR acquisition by Sony seems like a solid response that feels fairly realistic.
Sony goes after studios they have worked with before on an exclusive basis. What is the relation between Sony and CDPR ? That they publicly humiliated them by pulling their latest game from the PS Store because of how broken it was ?
 

ASilentProtagonist

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,877
FJaeEBAWQAQvPoo


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Convasse

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,817
Atlanta, GA, USA
That's a bit of a stretch you can get quality SP games while they put out decent MP experiences. Sony themselves were doing this on PS3.
Look at Microsoft's future titles. Elder Scrolls VI. Fable. Avowed. Starfield. Perfect Dark. Outer Worlds 2. All AAA single player games.

Those kinds of games aren't going anywhere, but the transactional paradigm by which they're made available to play will be different.
yall are so dramatic lmao
Please save this thing you just wrote and look at it in 5 years so you can have a good lol.

Just do an 8-year introspective. Compare the industry in 2014 to the industry in 2022. How much change has occurred in these years to the norms and conventions expected from video games? What sort of extrapolations can be performed as you look into a future dominated with discussions of the Metaverse, Crypto, NFTs, VR, etc.?

These SP projects from both MS and Sony games are larger in scale, complexity, and cost than ever before. They also have immense costs on developers' physical, mental, and emotional health. There's a reason Nintendo decided to not get into the arm's race with them. I don't think it's just about whether they could compete, but whether it is sustainable, and I don't believe AAA development with either Xbox/PlayStation studios is.

As transactional paradigms continue to shift, cost cutting to drive up earnings will be the focus. If current leadership doesn't focus on it, they will be replaced by BoDs with leadership who do.

This isn't about my emotions about video game preferences but about the cold, impersonal science businesses use to adapt their practices overtime, especially as market share and industry growth reaches maturity. If you like how things have been, then you won't like where things are going, and this discussion will be even more interesting by 2027.
 
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Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,065
It fucking sucks and I hate it. But that's what Sony has to do now to compete.
Industry consolidation is happening. If Sony doesn't buy publishers, someone else will.
So if you're a PlayStation fan and PlayStation is your main platform, you hope Sony will go big.
Because having 3 big companies fight for the NUMBER ONE spot is better than having only one (Microsoft) while the other two are fighting for bread crumbs.
Yeah, Sony isn't Nintendo.

They can't survive on FP alone. They need 3rd party.
 

Markratos

Hermen Hulst's Secret Account
Member
Feb 15, 2020
2,923
If the Bethesda acquisition had never occurred, does Sony still go out and purchase Bluehole, Housemarque, and Firesprite? It feels like all of those acquisitions by Sony were made at that time in response to Microsoft bolstering their output with Bethesda.

So if they were, it seems reasonable to assume that Sony will try and make a commensurate acquisition, or perhaps multiple. I said it earlier, but a Bungie + CDPR acquisition by Sony seems like a solid response that feels fairly realistic.
After the Cyberpunk fiasco and the refund problematic I really think a CDPR acquisition by Sony is nearly impossible. I think their best option is some acquisition in the Japanese gaming industry, and more with the good relationship that Sony has with its government.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,931
the Netherlands
If the Bethesda acquisition had never occurred, does Sony still go out and purchase Bluehole, Housemarque, and Firesprite? It feels like all of those acquisitions by Sony were made at that time in response to Microsoft bolstering their output with Bethesda.

So if they were, it seems reasonable to assume that Sony will try and make a commensurate acquisition, or perhaps multiple. I said it earlier, but a Bungie + CDPR acquisition by Sony seems like a solid response that feels fairly realistic.
Maybe, but given Sony's history of working with developers before acquiring them I think they could have happened regardless. Bluepoint and Housemarque especially were always going to be perfect candidates for an acquisition, regardless of what's happening in the industry.
 

KhrossSF

Member
Jul 8, 2020
533
THat's because gamers are hyperbolic about everything. There is no logic in discussion. It's a rush to the hottest take imaginable because most of it is still fueled by console wars.

This news is absolutely huge and will no doubt have a major impact on revenue, userbase and potentially PS+ sub subscriptions.

But anyone talking about what will happen in 10 years, or Sony being bought by apple or anything about PS going 3rd party next gen is straight up just saying shit.

IMO yes Sony does need to be aggressive in both getting more devs and swinging for one or two publishers.

PS is one of the main pillars in how Sony makes money. I'm sure there are serious conversations being had with their leaders and 3rd party partners.

you are right but , you gotta realize theres like 5 people pushing the doom and gloom posts , and literally repeating themselves every page.
 

Templeusox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,241
Matt said something very interesting in the acquisition thread IMO:



Take that as you will.
Of course, but I think Sony knows that. Playstation is worth well over 100 billion dollars.

I wouldn't want a lot of you in a foxhole with me. Playstation is a juggernaut brand and it can self-sustain in perpetuity as is. It was iconic before COD and it will be iconic long after COD is gone. The "Sony is doomed" posts are the thing of parody.
 
Jul 2, 2021
15,677
This isn't about how PS compares to Activision but how Sony views SIE.
I don't know. Yoshida knows what Hirai did and how Hirai did it. Yoshida was responsible for Sony's finacials. Hirai and Yoshida were close.
PS4 saved Sony and helped them to kickstart Sony Corp's huge comeback.
They have to know. Now is the time to decide if they want to compete with Microsoft in the video game industry or not.
Another publisher is gone. And it won't be the last one.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,995
THat's because gamers are hyperbolic about everything. There is no logic in discussion. It's a rush to the hottest take imaginable because most of it is still fueled by console wars.

This news is absolutely huge and will no doubt have a major impact on revenue, userbase and potentially PS+ sub subscriptions.

But anyone talking about what will happen in 10 years, or Sony being bought by apple or anything about PS going 3rd party next gen is straight up just saying shit.

IMO yes Sony does need to be aggressive in both getting more devs and swinging for one or two publishers.

PS is one of the main pillars in how Sony makes money. I'm sure there are serious conversations being had with their leaders and 3rd party partners.
Thank you.

I have an opinion about all this, all I'll say is let's just wait n see how all this plays out. And wait n see as in 5-10 years from now.
Many gaming companies are undervalued, this isn't remotely new, you are (probably purposely) making a dumb read on what this means.
lol, I will say when news like this happens....it starts to make some things clear.

Prepare to see wild takes for the next couple of weeks.
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
2,597
If the Bethesda acquisition had never occurred, does Sony still go out and purchase Bluehole, Housemarque, and Firesprite? It feels like all of those acquisitions by Sony were made at that time in response to Microsoft bolstering their output with Bethesda.

So if they were, it seems reasonable to assume that Sony will try and make a commensurate acquisition, or perhaps multiple. I said it earlier, but a Bungie + CDPR acquisition by Sony seems like a solid response that feels fairly realistic.

Nobody would want to touch CDPR with a barge pole lol.

Bungie absolutely - should be one of their top priorities.

Square-Enix, Capcom and Bungie would probably give them a fighting chance. Along with buying up the small developers they're currently partnered with like Kojima Productions, Haven, Deviation etc.

If I were head of Playstation I would be saying that making those deals happen are what Sony need to do to ensure their long term survival. Because that's the truth.

MS currently have over double the number of studios that Sony do, and have huge IPs. They will not be able to compete unless they expand.
 
Jul 2, 2021
15,677
I mean the one thing we don't know is how much growth Sony IP will have new and old this gen .
If they have another PS4 gen in terms of IP growth it can off set things along with some M&A and first party expansion .
The question is can they get another PS4 gen in term of new IP growth new and old .
They can have 5 more new IPs like Ghost of Tsushima and it won't even offset Call of Duty.
Sony already had to do something because of the Zenimax acquisition. But NOW after Activision-Blizzard is gone too... they have to do much more. Buying already exsting IPs. A publisher. Because you can BET Microsoft will buy another one. Maybe even a japanese one like Sega-Atlus. Phil mentioned a few times by now that he wants to do something in Japan.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,678
If Sony decides to compete and get a publisher or two, well then Spartacus has a chance to be huge.
They can keep making singleplayer and multiplayer games. 50/50.
Sony is already changing right now. If I'm counting correctly Sony has like 10 AAA multiplayer games in development atm.
So the DLC/multiplayer trend already started with Jim Ryan and Hermen Hulst on top.

It happened pretty quick. Discussions started in November 2021, according to Phil Spencer and Bobby Kotick.
Only two whole months!


No wonder they need Bobby to stick around a while.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,931
the Netherlands
Because people are bringing them up: I doubt anyone would acquire CDPR simply because they'd easily cost north of $6billion. That's an extremely steep price for a company which releases one or two games each generation.
 

Blent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,174
East Midlands, England, UK
I just feel really sad today. I'm not in any way inclined to fight for the honour of my favourite gaming corporation or anything like that, but I have been very happy with what games I've been getting on my PlayStations for decades and the main reason I never got an Xbox was because they never had anything that appealed to me enough to justifying spending hundreds more pounds on another console.

But rather than making better games, Microsoft instead decide to just buy out a bunch of publishers and take a swathe of options away from me. I get it's a business thing and just capitalism in action, but it still fucking sucks.
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
I think he's saying Sony doesn't value SIE enough considering how much it makes more the whole company

In that case, it is 100% true. PlayStation pulled Sony out of shit, and is the reason why it's been hitting higher and higher numbers. Kaz saw the importance of gaming when he took over and saw PlayStation was going to be what helped Sony as a whole. He was right (and thank goodness the President from Sony Music didn't get the job over Kaz to be CEO).

Sony in turn has not reinvested enough into PlayStation. Like there is no reason why the cell phone division is still up, you can make the argument that at least the TV division is important cause the Bravia brand. Why the fuck is Sony currently trying to enter the car market? So much more money could have been pumped into PlayStation and more could have been done to be proactive about this instead of sitting back.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Nobody would want to touch CDPR with a barge pole lol.

Bungie absolutely - should be one of their top priorities.

Square-Enix, Capcom and Bungie would probably give them a fighting chance. Along with buying up the small developers they're currently partnered with like Kojima Productions, Haven, Deviation etc.

If I were head of Playstation I would be saying that making those deals happen are what Sony need to do to ensure their long term survival. Because that's the truth.
Bungie got infused with a bunch of Tencent money for their new IP right? It seems that they like their independence and aren't in a financial position where they need to sell. As for CDP I don't think that acquisition would be perceived positively by anyone. I just don't see it happening.
 
Jul 2, 2021
15,677
Sony goes after studios they have worked with before on an exclusive basis.
Sony has worked with everyone in this industry. 1st or 3rd party.
Only going after Kojima Productions or Ember Labs isn't going to cut it anymore. They have to go after go IPs and multiple AAA studios.
There's not much left. It's time to go after publishers, or lose more publishers.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
I just feel really sad today. I'm not in any way inclined to fight for the honour of my favourite gaming corporation or anything like that, but I have been very happy with what games I've been getting on my PlayStations for decades and the main reason I never got an Xbox was because they never had anything that appealed to me enough to justifying spending hundreds more pounds on another console.

But rather than making better games, Microsoft instead decide to just buy out a bunch of publishers and take a swathe of options away from me. I get it's a business thing and just capitalism in action, but it still fucking sucks.
We are not entitled to any future games to release on our preferred platform. Period.

It doesn't matter if the previous game in that franchise was released on our preferred platform.

The sooner people accept that the sooner they quit incorrectly framing that some business deal "took" these games from them.
 

BoJack

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
3,502
FJaeEBAWQAQvPoo


4e2qvs.jpg


You can spend all the money you want, but the games have to deliver critically and commercially at the end of the day. It'll be interesting to see how things go these next few years.

Sony losing big third party games will lead to losing profit (software and hardware), and that will directly impact on the quality of their games and the money they can spend on their games.

This is not about if these acquisitions will be successful for MS or not, it's about the possibility of PS losing their ability to make more money to make these games on that picture.
 

Wouwie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,461
Bethesda was already huge but this is on a "total knock out" level. It's a shame that a healthy competitive ecosystem can be wiped out almost overnight when the biggest and richest companies start handing out big cheques and just buy their way to the top. The whole "buying studios" trend from companies like Microsoft, Embracer, Tencent, Facebook, Sony and others has been sad to watch as a gamer. I was perfectly happy with how it was before, where most gamers, no matter the platform, had the opportunity to play most games.
 
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Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
Bungie got infused with a bunch of Tencent money for their new IP right? It seems that they like their independence and aren't in a financial position where they need to sell. As for CDP I don't think that acquisition would be perceived positively by anyone. I just don't see it happening.
NetEase, not Tencent
 
Jul 25, 2020
749
Sony losing big third party games will lead to losing profit (software and hardware), and that will directly impact on the quality of their games and the money they can spend on their games.

This is not about if these acquisitions will be successful for MS or not, it's about PS losing their ability to make more money to make quality.

Exactly and this is not something im sure people have thought much about. You take massive franchises like Call of Duty, Fallout, Elder Scrolls etc and remove the cut Sony get of each copy sold and that is a hell of a lot of moolah.
 
Jul 2, 2021
15,677
Yeah, Sony isn't Nintendo.

They can't survive on FP alone. They need 3rd party.
Or buy 3rd party publishers and make them 1st party.
Just look at Microsoft.
The reason this news is such a bummer is that we know they won't.
I'm not so sure tbh. I'm sure they will have a huge meeting now. And I'm sure during the fiscal year report in February investors are going to ask them what they will do now to counter. Because they have to. Or they are fine with becoming the #3 in this industry. Remember "Welcome to the Third Place"?
It's happening now.
 

Convasse

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,817
Atlanta, GA, USA
Of course, but I think Sony knows that. Playstation is worth well over 100 billion dollars.

I wouldn't want a lot of you in a foxhole with me. Playstation is a juggernaut brand and it can self-sustain in perpetuity as is. It was iconic before COD and it will be iconic long after COD is gone. The "Sony is doomed" posts are the thing of parody.
I doubt even SIE leadership believes this. But if they do, that would be an incredible level of delusion.
 

Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
I can see Sony open it's wallet and buy Konami …not sure about square/capcom
Capcom, Konami (for the IPs) and SE is what Sony could use better
Only way to answer is buying Capcom and Konami, reviving all the old IPs (Silent Hill, MGS, Castlevania etc...)
The IP's of Konami have value. The problem, like you said, is that their AAA studios are no longer around. Even if Sony bought Konami, they would still need to add manpower to get more games created for PlayStation consoles.
I'll save you guys the heartache by pointing out that Konami isn't going to sell. They are a large company with their hands in several different industries. Konami would prefer saving their IPs for a rainy day or using them for easy cashflow (multiplayer guest DLC, pachinko machines, outsourcing to cheap developers, ETC) then sell or license to someone else. For Konami fans, the feeling of despair on this thread is just a Tuesday.

6sj8wrt8gi451.jpg


A WB Games acquisition is even less likely and would arguably be useless, because Warner Brothers (at most) would only give up the studio and not the IPs. WB wouldn't hand over the rights to DC, Harry Potter, Mortal Kombat, ETC, to Sony, especially when it would impact their other studios (such as their Mortal Kombat movie plans).

I think the comments saying "Sony is doomed" are hyperbolic and wrong, but it seems necessary for them to drop a bombshell of their own now. My suggestion (besides acquiring another major studio) would be to make the PlayStation 5 backwards compatible with PlayStation 1-4, but only time will tell. To be completely honest, I don't like the idea of so much of the industry being monopolised under the same two studios (Microsoft and Sony).

This is probably a stupid question, but did Microsoft ever say (after the Berestha acquisition) that all of their new IPs would be X-Box Exclusives? I certainly hope not.
 
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