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SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
Guess so lol I was really young when the ps3 was released

Kutaragi made some crazy comments back then about how people should just get a second job to get a PS3. But aside from that Sony's actions really weren't arrogant. With the PS3 you not only got one of the best Blu-ray players on the market, but also the cheapest one. The end result of it is that it caused Sony to bleed money like crazy because even by selling to at $500/600 they were still losing a fuckton of money on each unit.
 
Jul 25, 2020
749
Of course they did not get the same marketing the sales potential was not the same .
Who is going to spend GOW money marketing on DD games .
It was under new leadership because they could not get there act together .
They had to many teams doing to many things that did not work out and that is why they get new leader ship in the PS3 gen .
You can read all about that when it happen and this was during Kaz and Jack time .

You using Day gone but a vita team grew enough to make a 5 million seller while Japan studio had that number of people for years and could not make a IP that sell 1 million.

This is the very point that I'm making though. Japan Studio was primarily used as a collaboration developer in the PS3 and PS4 era, they were heavily in the PS1 and PS2 era also, plus they strongly supported the PSP. Very, very few of their games were made However if you look at their own offerings, you have to remember they get assigned a budget with these things. Someone somewhere signed off on these budgets and it wasn't until we really looked into it and said, oh shit, something isn't adding up here that they brought someone in to streamline and get back to some semblance of sense as to where they fit in the business.

Gravity Rush, great game, barely got any advertising to the point that people didn't know that it was coming out. The size and scope of their projects still varied because Gravity Rush was a much bigger undertaking than Tokyo Jungle, Rain or Puppeteer and I use those examples exclusively because they're some of the very few that they actually made all by themselves. Ape Escape Move and Kung Fu Rider is another example of not giving studios a proper chance. They made fringe games for an add-on that while I loved was slated by the media for being too derivative of Nintendo despite Sony demoing that tech originally in 2001.

Look the studio was managed. Under Kaz Hirai, it changed it's direction. Under Andrew House. It changed again under Shawn Layden and seems to have changed again with each iteration of management. That's four CEO's in ten years. Allan Becker was doing a great job there and Sony Japan fit the Layden model of first, must, best. Apparently they didn't meet Jim's criteria. I mean you only have to look at the talent there. They gave Kojima more support that than and SCE Japan had some industry titans in their ranks who could have used some support but never got it. Ultimately a lot of Sony closures have been either through mis-management or poor decision making.

The way to solve this is what they've done bringing SIE into one umbrella, but the problem is, that umbrella is incredibly focused on European and North American produced content. That's been evident from their treatment of their Japan talent for some time now. That's a management issue. They did the same thing with Sony London, so it's nothing new.

And yet here we are where none of this mistakes are being made. We have a competitive console at a fair price with a cheaper digital sku launching with strong day one games and a strong first year and you saying it is all going back to the arrogant days... I mean cmon are we serious with this?

Even if I don't like the 80€ games this not even close to be in the same ballpark as the PS3 days.

Again, time will tell. The ripples from their actions won't take seed right away. The price increase is just one of the factors but in my humble opinion, I can see Sony having to do a bit of grovelling to win back consumer trust in the next two to three years. Microsoft is going to make great progress in the market and they'll have to eat some humble pie but I don't wholly blame Jim for that, Sony itself seems dead set on pumping money into Sony Music and Sony Pictures despite PlayStation being their best bet. When PlayStation makes over 20% of Sony's income and Sony Pictures and Sony Music are making multi-billion dollar acquisitions where it looks as though there is a lack of investment in Gaming and Network Services you can see the thinking. On the flip side Microsoft just took a major publisher out of the market and if you think that's where they will stop or they won't prioritise their products on XBOX then I would say think again.

I can confidently say you were living under a rock if you didn't know Legend of Dragoon existed lol. There was a sweet ass CG commercial that was constantly playing on tv. That game was EVERYWHERE and got a ton of hype. Even wound up selling a million copies. I'm actually not really sure why it never got a sequel.

It depends on your experience though doesn't it? It sold on average in Japan 350,000 units LTD which is about what the average Yakuza title sold in it's launch week in Japan. The major sales were in the United States but the title was barely advertised here in the UK. It wasn't released in Europe until 2001 when people were looking forward to the PS2 and the big RPG was Final Fantasy IX. It came out a month before that and barely got a look in which is why they never restocked it. Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II on DreamCast got more advertising than that. I think the big PS1 RPG's that year were Vagrant Story and Breath of Fire IV?

In fact in between posts I've gone into my bookcase and looked at my PS1 demo discs and surprise surprise, I found an FMV demo on UK Official PlayStation Demo 64 which is November 2000. The cover art is Driver 2 and it isn't even mentioned on the cover. It isn't mentioned on the following demo's either and it released here in January. It mentions Crash Bash, Spyro 3, Buzz Lightyear, some PS2 stuff but nothing about Legend of Dragoon. My magazines are in storage though so I can't go and see.
 

Nilou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,715
I have to admit, I didn't even know The Legend of Dragoon even existed until I saw it mentioned last April in the PlayStation OT's then. I never got the chance to play a single 1st party PS1 JRPG and didn't know there were so many until many years later. Wonder how LoD holds up today.
 

Darkknight2149

Ban made permanent due to harassment of staff
Banned
May 27, 2020
6,398
I wonder what the disbandment of Japan Studio will mean for Project Siren/Team Gravity members who were still at the company. I wouldn't mind seeing Naoko Sato join Toyama at Bokeh Game Studio, since she was a major creative force in Siren and the first Silent Hill game.
 

Zachary_Games

Member
Jul 31, 2020
2,957
Just watched the State of Play and it was great. Y'all are jaded.

For sure. It's only negative was not showing any AAA heavy hitters.

Outside of that, every game shown looks terrific. Kena is my highlight, and obligatory GOTY betting contender. Returnal has sold me. FNAF's looks creepy, and ridiculously good looking graphically btw. Deathloop is a title I have interest in buying at some point. And finally, a reason to buy FF7R. Just loads and loads of quality content coming this year.

Personally, I'm loving the variety. There will be a time and place for the big guns, probably in June. Until then, we have a great spring lineup ahead of us.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,912
I always wondered how Legend of Legaia got a sequel but Legend of Dragoon didn't - despite it feeling like nobody but me enjoyed the two Legaia titles and LoD has a vocal and passionate fanbase.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
I have to admit, I didn't even know The Legend of Dragoon even existed until I saw it mentioned last April in the PlayStation OT's then. I never got the chance to play a single 1st party PS1 JRPG and didn't know there were so many until many years later. Wonder how LoD holds up today.

This is one of the things that it's become most well known for, make of it what you will

 
Jul 25, 2020
749
Kutaragi made some crazy comments back then about how people should just get a second job to get a PS3. But aside from that Sony's actions really weren't arrogant. With the PS3 you not only got one of the best Blu-ray players on the market, but also the cheapest one. The end result of it is that it caused Sony to bleed money like crazy because even by selling to at $500/600 they were still losing a fuckton of money on each unit.

Sony were very arrogant in the TV space. They believed their CRT range was better than the flat screen televisions that LG and Samsung were pumping out and very quickly fell behind. Samsung and LG were far cheaper and clearly the right choice for the future. Apple started putting the nails in the coffin on the Walkman with the iPod. Whilst I had one of the Sony Walkman MP3 players, the iPod was a runaway success and the tape/cd players that Sony made just died a death and quickly as other companies got on board with MP3 players. Mini disc was a failure also. Not to mention they cut corners on producing laptop batteries in a return that cost them half a billion dollars. They had so many problems at that time, they very, very nearly went bankrupt. That didn't include the fact that they were losing hundreds on each PS3 sold. The attitude at the top of Sony at the time was clear. If it has Sony on the box, it sells. Until it didn't.
 

Nilou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,715
This is one of the things that it's become most well known for, make of it what you will



tenor.gif


Well then
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
This is the very point that I'm making though. Japan Studio was primarily used as a collaboration developer in the PS3 and PS4 era, they were heavily in the PS1 and PS2 era also, plus they strongly supported the PSP. Very, very few of their games were made However if you look at their own offerings, you have to remember they get assigned a budget with these things. Someone somewhere signed off on these budgets and it wasn't until we really looked into it and said, oh shit, something isn't adding up here that they brought someone in to streamline and get back to some semblance of sense as to where they fit in the business.

Gravity Rush, great game, barely got any advertising to the point that people didn't know that it was coming out. The size and scope of their projects still varied because Gravity Rush was a much bigger undertaking than Tokyo Jungle, Rain or Puppeteer and I use those examples exclusively because they're some of the very few that they actually made all by themselves. Ape Escape Move and Kung Fu Rider is another example of not giving studios a proper chance. They made fringe games for an add-on that while I loved was slated by the media for being too derivative of Nintendo despite Sony demoing that tech originally in 2001.

Look the studio was managed. Under Kaz Hirai, it changed it's direction. Under Andrew House. It changed again under Shawn Layden and seems to have changed again with each iteration of management. That's four CEO's in ten years. Allan Becker was doing a great job there and Sony Japan fit the Layden model of first, must, best. Apparently they didn't meet Jim's criteria. I mean you only have to look at the talent there. They gave Kojima more support that than and SCE Japan had some industry titans in their ranks who could have used some support but never got it. Ultimately a lot of Sony closures have been either through mis-management or poor decision making.

The way to solve this is what they've done bringing SIE into one umbrella, but the problem is, that umbrella is incredibly focused on European and North American produced content. That's been evident from their treatment of their Japan talent for some time now. That's a management issue. They did the same thing with Sony London, so it's nothing new

I really don't where you getting this idea that studio change direct with ever new Sony head .
Also Sony Japan never fit Layden model ( mind you he was head of WWS for less than 2 years so i doubt that matter ) they were never first or must or best at anything .
Which he normally talk up for AAA games.
Don't why you using Tokyo Jungle since it was not made by Japan studio .
You keep on talking about support when you had one of those giants saying they not about making big AAA games.
Japan studio never got out of the PS1 and PS2 mind set and you know things went wrong when they had to put in a new head since they never do that from out side .
 
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Desodeset

Member
May 31, 2019
2,326
Sofia, Bulgaria
Guys, we have to admit it. Bluepoint Games proved to be the better Japan Studio :D

It's a fact that Bluepoint still made Shadow of the Colossus and Demon's Souls. So, Sony most likely will continue external collaborations on their legacy IPs from Japan.
 

NLCPRESIDENT

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,969
Midwest
I always wondered how Legend of Legaia got a sequel but Legend of Dragoon didn't - despite it feeling like nobody but me enjoyed the two Legaia titles and LoD has a vocal and passionate fanbase.
I loved both Legaia titles. I think it was one ip Sony owned but had license issues with something. Why we were able to get that off brand sequel and not a straight sequel.
 

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,175
Guys, we have to admit it. Bluepoint Games proved to be the better Japan Studio :D

It's a fact that Bluepoint still made Shadow of the Colossus and Demon's Souls. So, Sony most likely will continue external collaborations.

I mean, it's kind of true. In a way, Bluepoint has been the better Japan Studio over the last three years (except for Asobi, which is awesome and I dunno why some here are shoving them out of the way like they don't count as a studio).
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
Sony were very arrogant in the TV space. They believed their CRT range was better than the flat screen televisions that LG and Samsung were pumping out and very quickly fell behind. Samsung and LG were far cheaper and clearly the right choice for the future. Apple started putting the nails in the coffin on the Walkman with the iPod. Whilst I had one of the Sony Walkman MP3 players, the iPod was a runaway success and the tape/cd players that Sony made just died a death and quickly as other companies got on board with MP3 players. Mini disc was a failure also. Not to mention they cut corners on producing laptop batteries in a return that cost them half a billion dollars. They had so many problems at that time, they very, very nearly went bankrupt. That didn't include the fact that they were losing hundreds on each PS3 sold. The attitude at the top of Sony at the time was clear. If it has Sony on the box, it sells. Until it didn't.

Yeah, I think that's all why Kaz was brought in to basically fix things across the entire company. Because for as much as they may have stumbled with the PS3, they still recovered from it in a way that other branches were struggling to do. The immediate post-PS2 Sony was just really messy for whatever reason.
 

chefbags

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,269
SIFU is one of the games I'm looking forward to the most. For anyone who hasn't played absolver, you'll be in for a treat. The combat is complex and satisfying. I'm glad the developers are moving with another fighting based game.
 

Angie

Best Avatar Thread Ever!
Member
Nov 20, 2017
39,389
Kingdom of Corona
I have to admit, I didn't even know The Legend of Dragoon even existed until I saw it mentioned last April in the PlayStation OT's then. I never got the chance to play a single 1st party PS1 JRPG and didn't know there were so many until many years later. Wonder how LoD holds up today.
Don't bother. It's average at best.
I can recomend you 10 better PS1 JRPGs

The only reason most people mention the game, was because it was Sony only attenpt have having their own FF
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,510
I'm really excited for Returnal's story. I have some ideas about how it could go, but it is mysterious so far.
 
Jul 25, 2020
749
I really don't where you getting this idea that studio change direct with ever new Sony head .
Also Sony Japan never fit Layden model ( mind you he was head of WWS for less than 2 years so i doubt that matter ) they were never first or must or best at anything .
Which he normally talk up for AAA games.
Also i don't why you using Tokyo Jungle since it was not made by Japan studio .
You keep on talking about support when you had one of those giants saying they not about making big AAA games.
Japan studio never got out of the PS1 and PS2 mind set and you know things went wrong when they had to put in a new head since they never do that from out side .

Today sees the keenly-anticipated digital release of one of the most off-the-wall games you'll play this year – Sony Japan Studio's lunatic action title TOKYO JUNGLE.

TOKYO JUNGLE: The Story Behind 2012's Most Eccentric Action Game - Taken from the PlayStation Blog. The game developer pitched the idea to Sony Japan who vehemently disliked it but he won through the support of Worldwide Studios in the end and made it as a project in Sony Japan, I guess I'm wrong in what I thought and more research makes it look like it was co-developed. Which I admit isn't wholly developed by but only goes to prove my point.

It's well documented that Sony Japan were not managed very well. After Shu progressed in 2000 Japan was run so many different ways. Shu had to go back in 2008 but he was working on Vita and PS4 behind closed doors and couldn't give it the full attention it needed. When Allan Becker got there in 2012, Sony Japan had 40 projects in development and without using these words specifically, the studio was essentially a shit show where projects were just being green lit constantly, nothing was getting done and nothing was selling. That is gross, gross mismanagement.

Doucet was promoted to the manager of Sony Japan with nobody mentioning why Becker left but I think it's clear that Doucet wants to focus on a one team studio. But you have to keep in mind, he was brought in during the time of Kaz, he then had to adapt to what Andrew House wanted, then Shawn Layden for a year, then Jim Ryan before he left. You can't imagine what those four people wanted from Japan Studio. The studio itself had the potential and Mark Cerny made that clear when he talked about how well Rain, Puppeteer and Knack were made technically.

But the potential of Sony Japan was huge and quite honestly, managed poorly and squandered. Maybe Doucet will finally have it in a position to concentrate on one thing at once and they can grow again. They haven't closed the studio sure, but Sony definitely had a rough diamond that wasn't polished.
 

Nilou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,715
Don't bother. It's average at best.
I can recomend you 10 better PS1 JRPGs

The only reason most people mention the game, was because it was Sony only attenpt have having their own FF

I want to eventually try and figure out which ps1 jrpg's are worth getting and trying while the PS3 store is up and I can buy them.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
TOKYO JUNGLE: The Story Behind 2012's Most Eccentric Action Game - Taken from the PlayStation Blog. The game developer pitched the idea to Sony Japan who vehemently disliked it but he won through the support of Worldwide Studios in the end and made it as a project in Sony Japan, I guess I'm wrong in what I thought and more research makes it look like it was co-developed. Which I admit isn't wholly developed by but only goes to prove my point.

It's well documented that Sony Japan were not managed very well. After Shu progressed in 2000 Japan was run so many different ways. Shu had to go back in 2008 but he was working on Vita and PS4 behind closed doors and couldn't give it the full attention it needed. When Allan Becker got there in 2012, Sony Japan had 40 projects in development and without using these words specifically, the studio was essentially a shit show where projects were just being green lit constantly, nothing was getting done and nothing was selling. That is gross, gross mismanagement.

Doucet was promoted to the manager of Sony Japan with nobody mentioning why Becker left but I think it's clear that Doucet wants to focus on a one team studio. But you have to keep in mind, he was brought in during the time of Kaz, he then had to adapt to what Andrew House wanted, then Shawn Layden for a year, then Jim Ryan before he left. You can't imagine what those four people wanted from Japan Studio. The studio itself had the potential and Mark Cerny made that clear when he talked about how well Rain, Puppeteer and Knack were made technically.

But the potential of Sony Japan was huge and quite honestly, managed poorly and squandered. Maybe Doucet will finally have it in a position to concentrate on one thing at once and they can grow again. They haven't closed the studio sure, but Sony definitely had a rough diamond that wasn't polished.

But that is on Studio Japan more than Sony .
There only so much you parent company can do which they did try .
Like other Sony studios run there self and did what need to be done even when they were in trouble .
Also i think you making a mistake how Sony run there devs house they have been only 3 people in charge of WWS.
That is Shu from since the PS3 and Layden for a short while because of how the restructure went more than anything and now Herman .
Also are saying Doucet was brought in when Kaz was there ?
Cause Kaz was already the head of Sony and doubt he had much time to pay attention to something like a Studio .
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,264
Making real good progress in RE7. The game is scary but also fun the more I progress through the story. Those black tall things just continue to freak me out. I would feel better if someone was watching me play. 😭
 

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,641
So it was basically a Third/Second-Party State of play?

I think Sony will continue having these 30-40 minute SOP for their 3rd-Party releases and the deep-dive SOP for every First-Party Game. So i guess we will get the next SOP on May shortly before Ratched releases.


All in all i thought it was okay, im def hyped for FF7:RE, the base game was one of my GOTG, i waited for a Replay and it seems like i was right :)
 

Nilou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,715
Well my queen, if you haven't already played them, have you tried Valkyrie Profile, Jade Cocoon and Koudelka?

Unpopular opinion, I preferred VP to Final Fantasy 👀

I've honestly never played a single 3rd party ps1 jrpg either. I played FF9 remastered on PS4 but that's about it. I've heard of Valkyrie Profile before but I've never heard of Jade Cocoon or Koudelka.
 

Morrowbie

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,135
By killing off Japan Studio, Sony are removing all the diversity from PS5. We all love a diverse range of games! They just never marketed them!

Also the State of Play was rubbish, what's the point of showing all those crappy little games?
 

Deleted member 15973

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,172
By killing off Japan Studio, Sony are removing all the diversity from PS5. We all love a diverse range of games! They just never marketed them!

Also the State of Play was rubbish, what's the point of showing all those crappy little games?
You want diversity but you don't like diversity?
What a bad take. Ill answer anyway.
-> The first where Indies are sold / pushed that much.
It does sound like your first console launch.
 

Desodeset

Member
May 31, 2019
2,326
Sofia, Bulgaria
I mean, it's kind of true. In a way, Bluepoint has been the better Japan Studio over the last three years (except for Asobi, which is awesome and I dunno why some here are shoving them out of the way like they don't count as a studio).

I won't be surprised if the next Astro Bot game (if it's non vr and with high budget) sells more than the whole Japan Studio's output for the last 7 years.

Also, i hope that Sony will continue with big budget collabs on japanese titles (From Software, Kojima, Square Enix and possibly Konami).

XDev Studio is Europe only.

I mean, they consolidated their marketing teams into one global unit. Visual Arts is also expanding in Malaysia.

May be the same thing is happening with their xdev studios around the world.
 

BrickArts295

GOTY Tracking Thread Master
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,746
Rest of the year is shaping up pretty nicely for PS5 exclusives and ports:

March: Yakuza Like A Dragon, Maquette, Disco Elysium Final Cut (supposedly)

Apri: Returnal, Guilty Gear Strive, Oddworld, MLB 21

May: Deathloop, RE Village, Far Cry 6 (rumored)

June: Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Back 4 Blood, Solar Ash (CES video date)

July: Little Devil Inside (CES video date), Gotham Knights (rumored)

Aug: Kena

Sep: N/A

Oct: Ghostwire Tokyo (CES video date), Dark Pictures 3 (supposedly)

Nov: N/A

My guess is for Horizon to drop in Sep to avoid COD in Nov. All in all, it looks much better than PS4 in 2014.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,355
Rest of the year is shaping up pretty nicely for PS5 exclusives and ports:

March: Yakuza Like A Dragon, Maquette, Disco Elysium Final Cut (supposedly)

Apri: Returnal, Guilty Gear Strive, Oddworld, MLB 21

May: Deathloop, RE Village, Far Cry 6 (rumored)

June: Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart, Back 4 Blood, Solar Ash (CES video date)

July: Little Devil Inside (CES video date), Gotham Knights (rumored)

Aug: Kena

Sep: N/A

Oct: Ghostwire Tokyo (CES video date), Dark Pictures 3 (supposedly)

Nov: N/A

My guess is for Horizon to drop in Sep to avoid COD in Nov. All in all, it looks much better than PS4 in 2014.

I honestly think there's at least one unannounced Playstation Studios game that'll release this year. That'll obviously include outsourced games since those fall under that umbrella now.
 
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