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Aerial51

Member
Apr 24, 2020
3,686
In movies it's much easier to disconnect because it's passive. But with games, the interactivity is key; on some level, you have to sympathize with a character enough to complete the actions they need to take to finish the game. In God of War III, I can't finish the game unless I kill the Poseidon Princess, so on some level I have to want to do it, even if I hate it on a narrative level.
Funny that you point to the Poseidon Princess example, this is like one of the most evil things Kratos ever does in the entire series and it's honestly disgusting. His Character is disgusting and pathetic and GOW 2018 explores that, not as deep as i would have liked but at least it points out from time to time that Kratos is a horrible being.

I don't think you have to sympathize with your protagonist at all, exploring that disconnect can even be interesting like it was in LoU2.
Also movies are like typically like two hours long. Watching a movie about a dirtbag protagonist is just a quick jolt of bad energy and then it's over.

By comparison, games can be anywhere from 10 to 40+ hours long, and being mired in those characters for extremely long periods of time, while being forced to participate in the horrible things they do, can be exhausting, especially in a world as awful and full of hate as our current one.

I almost have to wonder if this shift toward dirtbag, mass-murderer "look, you're actually kind of the bad guy" protagonists is some kind of over-correction in an attempt to counter Yahtzee ribbing the Uncharted games for Nathan Drake's high body count.
Name me please one more series other than Last of Us, GTA and i guess God of War (even though they heavily course corrected in the Reboot by retconning a little) where you play truly awful people.
I watched the Godfather Trilogy recently and that is basically 10 hours of horrible people doing bad stuff. At least everything that Michael does, still great movies. So movies can also be drawn out in that aspect. You have shows like Breaking Bad that take up to 40 hours that is the same stuff. TV Shows in general often bombard you with Asshole Protagonists.
In comparison to that bascially all other Games out there are lighthearted fun adventures where you can have fun shooting bad people in the face, style on some demons and look cool. You are extremly overestimating the amount of Games that have you play as a literally bad person. And i think Last of Us is like the only series that explores this properly in an interesting way.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,122
Huge fan of TLOU. Really liked TLOU2 (and adored it mechanically)—its messiness is part of its allure.

Time to take a huge break. Maybe even forever. There were already tradeoffs by relitigating and making explicit the ending of 1. I just don't know thematically what they want to say about these characters they haven't already. Let Ellie be.

And yeah, I agree with PlanetSmasher that it's time for ND to do something blue-sky and fun. Even U4 was a bit of a sombre affair. Stretch some muscles, learn some new things, take advantage of the fact that you have to respect few preconceived notions of what the game 'should' and 'shouldn't' be with a new IP.

UCLL was fun .
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,625
Name me please one more series other than Last of Us, GTA and i guess God of War (even though they heavily course corrected in the Reboot by retconning a little) where you play truly awful people.
I watched the Godfather Trilogy recently and that is basically 10 hours of horrible people doing bad stuff. At least everything that Michael does, still great movies. So movies can also be drawn out in that aspect. You have shows like Breaking Bad that take up to 40 hours that is the same stuff. TV Shows in general often bombard you with Asshole Protagonists.
In comparison to that bascially all other Games out there are lighthearted fun adventures where you can have fun shooting bad people in the face, style on some demons and look cool. You are extremly overestimating the amount of Games that have you play as a literally bad person. And i think Last of Us is like the only series that explores this properly in an interesting way.

Jin Sakai is a war criminal and an unrepentant monster. I'm sorry, but just because he got results doesn't change the fact that he committed a war crime and then showed zero remorse for it, even when his adversaries repurposed his own technology and used it against his own people.

And yes, you're right, Breaking Bad does have an asshole protagonist. Which is why I got fatigued by the show two seasons in and stopped watching.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,661
I almost have to wonder if this shift toward dirtbag, mass-murderer "look, you're actually kind of the bad guy" protagonists is some kind of over-correction in an attempt to counter Yahtzee ribbing the Uncharted games for Nathan Drake's high body count.
I don't think it has to do with that. It's just stories that Neil really wanted to tell.
 

Macca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,232
You normally have to wait roughly 4ish years between a Naughty Dog game so I don't mind if they go for the more grim/dire atmosphere there's so much other stuff to do in between those and they're so good at it too clearly.
 

Kaiserstarky

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,295
Huge fan of TLOU. Really liked TLOU2 (and adored it mechanically)—its messiness is part of its allure.

Time to take a huge break. Maybe even forever. There were already tradeoffs by relitigating and making explicit the ending of 1. I just don't know thematically what they want to say about these characters they haven't already. Let Ellie be.

And yeah, I agree with PlanetSmasher that it's time for ND to do something blue-sky and fun. Even U4 was a bit of a sombre affair. Stretch some muscles, learn some new things, take advantage of the fact that you have to respect few preconceived notions of what the game 'should' and 'shouldn't' be with a new IP.
If Neil his writing their next game, i don't think it would be "blue-sky and fun" because he said on the youtube channel of Troy Baker, he don't think he is the best to write these kind of stories.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,474
I quite like dark stories, so I don''t mind it at all if ND's next game is another one of those. I'd prefer a new IP over another Last of Us though.
 

Whittaker

Member
Jun 21, 2018
806
It was a good game, and hopefully the next time we see Chloe they've done the right thing and either drop Nadine from the series entirely or recast her with a more appropriate voice actress.

I would love a new UC game from ND starring Chloe and Cutter, that would get me so excited.

aw man but what's Bailey gonna do without a job to put food on the table?! </sarcasm>*

(in all seriousness; complete agree. Now's actually the time to do it without hurting any feelings with Bailey's (not undeserved) win with another ND role)

* I dig Bailey a lot—ever since she was Tohru Honda in Fruits Basket—but she's extremely active and it'd be nice to give other folks a shot...especially for problematic cross-race performances
 

KatharsisT

Banned
Mar 2, 2020
2,012
Not cool
And yes, you're right, Breaking Bad does have an asshole protagonist. Which is why I got fatigued by the show two seasons in and stopped watching.
Are you sure you like something in your life ? You're always complaining and negative. Maybe you don't realize it but it's bothering almost everyone here with the time. Plus you're never hyped by anything Sony are doing so I'm questioning what you're doing here spreading your negativity every damn day.
 

Aerial51

Member
Apr 24, 2020
3,686
Jin Sakai is a war criminal and an unrepentant monster. I'm sorry, but just because he got results doesn't change the fact that he committed a war crime and then showed zero remorse for it, even when his adversaries repurposed his own technology and used it against his own people.

And yes, you're right, Breaking Bad does have an asshole protagonist. Which is why I got fatigued by the show two seasons in and stopped watching.
I would say Jin is just fucking boring, but i really don't see how using poison is a war crime compared to just stabbing people in the back. Both things kill people and sure one thing is more cruel than the other, but the USA were responsible for a huge amount of war crimes that just involved guns. Especially considering that this was an Invasion. But even if you think it's a Warcrime, this course of action doesn't appear until the end of the 2nd act of the Game. Before that Jin is an honourable Samurai that just stabby stabs some people in the back when it's more convinieant. Like he is just a bad example because it occurs soo late in the Game, that you start to question his character.
 

Macca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,232
I wonder if Newman/Margenau will do that for the next one. I know they're directors but maybe could do both.
 

pappacone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
3,145
Jin
poisoned invading soldiers, he didn't arm any civilian, I don't really think that could be considered a war crime, even by today's standards
 

salromano

Mr. Gematsu
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,924
Oh! Did anyone hear triple click? For the predictions episode Maddie predicted Bloodborne coming to PC and Jason said a sort of 'no comment because I have insider information'. Also mentioned 60FPS in passing. Makes you wonder...

I listened to it now but you are misphrasing what he said, he basically said that he didnt make any Playstation PC port prediction in general because of inside info, not specifically bloodborne PC inside info.

Here is the quote:

Triple Click: Our Predictions For 2021 said:
Starts ~42:25

Maddie: "And then my 10th prediction---this is a very Kirk prediction---we will learn that Bloodborne is coming to PC. I'm willing to make this [predication about] Bloodborne Remastered if we want to make it harder."

Jason: "Well, any PC version would have to be remastered to the point where it runs at 60 frames per second."

Maddie: "As opposed to just---."

Kirk: "'There will be a PC version of Bloodborne' I think is sufficient [for the prediction]."

Maddie: "Mhm, that's---."

Kirk: "I like that prediction."

Maddie: "You guys don't feel like that's too easy? OK, OK."

Jason: "I will say that, because no inside info is allowed, I haven't done any PlayStation to PC predictions. So I won't comment on this one is what I'm saying."

Also, a kind request that when you're discussing something from a podcast, please have the courtesy of typing it up for everyone that may not be able to listen, as well as to avoid potentially paraphrasing anything out of context.
 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
Here is the quote:



Also, a kind request that when you're discussing something from a podcast, please have the courtesy of typing it up for everyone that may not be able to listen, as well as to avoid potentially paraphrasing anything out of context.
Yeah I feel like that quote aligns with what I said pretty closely.
Especially when you take into account his tone.
 

Cyberia

Member
Nov 8, 2017
3,299
Firesprite are working on ''a next gen narrative adventure'' game (alongside other projects):

We're looking for a Lead Concept Artist to support leadership in the creation and realisation of the game vision on a dark, story-driven next generation 'Narrative Adventure' with genre defining goals.


We are looking for a Lead Narrative Designer to drive the player's journey on a AAA branching narrative adventure. Working alongside Narrative Direction, Writing and Design teams you will play a lead role in the seamless marriage of storytelling with gameplay and mission design. This is a great opportunity for an ambitious individual looking for their next challenge, as the team is at an early stage, you will ensure the narrative design is a central pillar of the development. You will also play an active role in helping to grow and develop the narrative design team.

 

salromano

Mr. Gematsu
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,924
Yeah I feel like that quote aligns with what I said pretty closely.
Especially when you take into account his tone.

Yeah, I wasn't saying you were wrong. You didn't say anything other than what he said was interesting.

That being said, Jason's comment reads to me like he either knows that Bloodborne / insert PlayStation game here *is* coming to PC or knows that Bloodborne / insert PlayStation game here *isn't* coming to PC lol. So we'll see in due time I guess!
 

Whittaker

Member
Jun 21, 2018
806
If Neil his writing their next game, i don't think it would be "blue-sky and fun" because he said on the youtube channel of Troy Baker, he don't think he is the best to write these kind of stories.

He strikes me as a pretty good performance director and tastemaker. I don't know if there'd be any issue with him doing well creative directing a much more lighthearted work that was structured and written by Scherr and co. Or mentoring/supporting Newman/Margenau.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,058
Also movies are like typically like two hours long. Watching a movie about a dirtbag protagonist is just a quick jolt of bad energy and then it's over.

By comparison, games can be anywhere from 10 to 40+ hours long, and being mired in those characters for extremely long periods of time, while being forced to participate in the horrible things they do, can be exhausting, especially in a world as awful and full of hate as our current one.

I almost have to wonder if this shift toward dirtbag, mass-murderer "look, you're actually kind of the bad guy" protagonists is some kind of over-correction in an attempt to counter Yahtzee ribbing the Uncharted games for Nathan Drake's high body count.

Yeah I remember it was around 2008-2009 when games like Uncharted 2 and GTA IV were being decried for ludonarrative dissonance and in the decade since then we've been playing as monsters like Trevor in GTA V and Joel in Last of Us. Almost feels like spite...."see this is the alternative!"
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,115
Btw, has anyone experienced any weird controller issues with the PS5? In Spider-Man Remastered and in Ghost of Tsushima Legends the characters just began walking and the controller became unresponsive. I connected another controller while that happened in Legends and things went back to normal, but damn what a weird bug in two different games.

In Legends I was in the last enemy wave in the survival mode when my character just began walking circle lmao. Other players must have been looking what the heck I'm fooling right now in a critical time lol
 

Deleted member 81119

User-requested account closure
Banned
Sep 19, 2020
8,308
Yeah, I wasn't saying you were wrong. You didn't say anything other than what he said was interesting.

That being said, Jason's comment reads to me like he either knows that Bloodborne / insert PlayStation game here *is* coming to PC or knows that Bloodborne / insert PlayStation game here *isn't* coming to PC lol. So we'll see in due time I guess!
Oh yeah true...
 

TheRealTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,474
Looking at Bowser's Fury I am likely going to rebuy 3D World again for the Switch.

I hope Astro's Playroom gets something big and expansive this gen too beyond its VR sequel.
 

TheJollyCorner

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
9,469
Finally Fantasy 7 remake was just a magical experience. That nostalgia really hit home.

It really was.

Hopefully the development team is motivated after the critical success, because the pressure is on for them to deliver again with the next installment. I'm very excited.
I just wonder if Cid's going to sound like Larry the Cable Guy again. I don't mind if they give him a southern drawl, but hopefully more like a Texan TLOU Joel drawl and less like a guy that eats opossums from East Tennessee. :D
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
I'm so happy and not at all pissed that Indy and Arkane's games won't ever come out on PS5 haha 👍 👍
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,518
So now Xbox gets it's own Uncharted lol

Will be interesting to see how that plays out, from the looks of things it's a long way off.

Speaking of Uncharted, I want to wrap up my trophy hunt for Uncharted 4 but that speedrun and getting through certain segments in a specific way are really daunting to me. I got the multiplayer trophies just fine so I can take my time with it, but unlike previous Uncharted games I'm just not feeling it.
 

Kirudo

Member
May 1, 2020
502
Why do we suppose that the Indiana game will not be multiplatform? I understand that the purchase of MS exists, but it is not as if the game began its development recently, we do not know the contract involved
 

Adrifi

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 5, 2019
3,466
the Spanish Basque Country
Why do we suppose that the Indiana game will not be multiplatform? I understand that the purchase of MS exists, but it is not as if the game began its development recently, we do not know the contract involved
Actually this seems to be a "We have just started making this so keep an eye on our job posts" kind of announcement - like Project 007 - with Bethesda saying it'll be a while before we hear more about the game, so I think they have made Wolfenstein 3 since 2017 and finished it and started development on this in the summer. So I think this is far off.
 

TheRealTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,474
doit.gif

One of the best Mario games easily, and for those who never got to play it on the Wii U I'm glad they'll finally get that chance.
A ton of people hate on 3D World but I liked it, Bowser's Fury although may be just a small addition looks even more free though which is nice to see while still being polished in platforming paths, etc...

I hope Sony makes a ton of Platformers themselves this year.

Make this gen the platforming gen again.
 

ElephantShell

10,000,000
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,916
Why do we suppose that the Indiana game will not be multiplatform? I understand that the purchase of MS exists, but it is not as if the game began its development recently, we do not know the contract involved

It is 100% not going to be on PlayStation. If Sony acquired a developer who shortly after announced a game why would you assume it would release anywhere else?
 

Deleted member 864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,544
A ton of people hate on 3D World but I liked it, Bowser's Fury although may be just a small addition looks even more free though which is nice to see while still being polished in platforming paths, etc...

I hope Sony makes a ton of Platformers themselves this year.

Make this gen the platforming gen again.
Hmm, I've never actually seen a lot of hate for 3D World. The opposite actually.
 
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