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janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,197
Austin, TX
Japan or worldwide?
tenor.gif
 

Sheng Long

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
7,599
Earth
1. Destruction all-stars (AAA)
2. Returnal (AAA)
3. Ratchet and clank : rift apart. (AAA)
4. Gt 7. (AAA)
5. Horizon forbidden west. (AAA)
6. God of war Ragnarok. (AAA)
7. Kena : bridge of spirit (AAA)
8. Deathloop. (AAA)
9. Ghostwire Tokyo. (AAA)
10. Project athia. (AAA)
11. Final fantasy 16. (AAA)
( All of them are exclusives , timed atleast)
Is this the best 1st year of a console ever?? 🤔🤔

Absolutely monster amount of titles. Though I doubt Athia will show this year. Everything else, yeah it should make this one of the strongest first year lineups.
 

E.T.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,035
1. Destruction all-stars (AAA)
2. Returnal (AAA)
3. Ratchet and clank : rift apart. (AAA)
4. Gt 7. (AAA)
5. Horizon forbidden west. (AAA)
6. God of war Ragnarok. (AAA)
7. Kena : bridge of spirit (AAA)
8. Deathloop. (AAA)
9. Ghostwire Tokyo. (AAA)
10. Project athia. (AAA)
11. Final fantasy 16. (AAA)
( All of them are exclusives , timed atleast)
Is this the best 1st year of a console ever?? 🤔🤔
If all these titles make it out this year, then I would be day one for
Ratchet
Kena
GT7
Horizon
God of War
 
Jun 12, 2018
498
1. Destruction all-stars (AAA)
2. Returnal (AAA)
3. Ratchet and clank : rift apart. (AAA)
4. Gt 7. (AAA)
5. Horizon forbidden west. (AAA)
6. God of war Ragnarok. (AAA)
7. Kena : bridge of spirit (AAA)
8. Deathloop. (AAA)
9. Ghostwire Tokyo. (AAA)
10. Project athia. (AAA)
11. Final fantasy 16. (AAA)
( All of them are exclusives , timed atleast)
Is this the best 1st year of a console ever?? 🤔🤔
That's good for the rest of the world but if you're talking about Japan it's cataclysmic.
 

MistBreeze

Member
Mar 31, 2020
69
Plot twist. They've always been doomed.
yes ,,, exactly ... they entered the industry to face giants Nintendo and sega with ps1 and survived

they attacked by xbox on ps2 and Bill gates said himself he does not like sony and survived against the biggest corp in the world Microsoft

they survived a colossal failure in first years of ps3 life and made one hell of a comeback

maybe ps4 is the exception

but they have been doomed from the start but somehow survived and be the top console player actually
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
1. Destruction all-stars (AAA)
2. Returnal (AAA)
3. Ratchet and clank : rift apart. (AAA)
4. Gt 7. (AAA)
5. Horizon forbidden west. (AAA)
6. God of war Ragnarok. (AAA)
7. Kena : bridge of spirit (AAA)
8. Deathloop. (AAA)
9. Ghostwire Tokyo. (AAA)
10. Project athia. (AAA)
11. Final fantasy 16. (AAA)
( All of them are exclusives , timed atleast)
Is this the best 1st year of a console ever?? 🤔🤔
Destruction all stars, returnal, r&c, kena, deathloop are the only 2021 games in this list. So, is that the best 1st year of exclusives?
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,755
I don't get the weekly whining posts of returnal not being worthy day one. I would gladly pay full price for a game like returnal, than a glorified dlc or a remake with 10 years ago mechanics, but it is what it is, we all value things differently, if the game does not sell what they expect, they will lower it.

It's even funnier to me, because then you read everywhere about how sony only makes the same type of games, how they dismantled sony japan, but damn, if I would've been an executive, i would have axed sony japan even earlier, because people don't buy what is not made by the top tier teams of sony.

I don't think pitting first-party games against each other helps your argument.

I don't know why your complaint about Miles and Demon's being held in higher regard wouldn't be a whining post, too.
 

danhz

Member
Apr 20, 2018
3,255
I don't think pitting first-party games against each other helps your argument.

I don't know why your complaint about Miles and Demon's being held in higher regard wouldn't be a whining post, too.
That's more or less the point, we could be all day posting about how a big % of the games released aren't worth day 1.
 
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Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,892
I finished GoT this morning. I thought it was a very good game but definitely has some cons that bring it down.

Pros:
Melee combat is fun, with lots of tools
Enjoyed the story and Jin and Yuna were good. Side quests were good, I especially enjoyed the mythic quests and the ones that follow side characters
Visually stunning world
the gear upgrade system and charms
Load times are great

cons:
Stealth is too easy, practically braindead
Grappling hook only useful in specific situations. Would have been cool if it could have been used more.
Act 3 was kind of a let down visually

overall I would say the MC is accurate. Act 2 is probably the strongest part of the game.
Looking forward to trying Legends out now
 

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,615
I get the feeling that "Good Vibrations" is going to go down as the most ironic title because of the way these threads usually go.
 

dbcyber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,419
UK
The release date trailer completely sold me on Returnal, I hope there's a PS5 bundle with the game come March.
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,755
That's more or less the point, we could be all day posting about how a big % of the games released aren't worth day 1.

Sure, but as you pointed out, there are more people complaining about the price of Returnal than about other games.

That's because the perceived value don't match the price tag. The reason behind that doesn't matter at all, if the market doesn't want to pay that price for that product, then you've priced the product wrong.

We all want more variety from games. We all want Returnal to be a success. It's Sony's job to price the game accordingly so the game can be a success.
 

danhz

Member
Apr 20, 2018
3,255
Sure, but as you pointed out, there are more people complaining about the price of Returnal than about other games.

That's because the perceived value don't match the price tag. The reason behind that doesn't matter at all, if the market doesn't want to pay that price for that product, then you've priced the product wrong.

We all want more variety from games. We all want Returnal to be a success. It's Sony's job to price the game accordingly so the game can be a success.
If you market the game as a low-mid tier game, it's going to sell even lower(assuming quality of a title by price etc), or the difference they estimated is not worth reducing it to a 2nd tier game. It's not a game that is already appealing to the whole market, I don't think(or they, because they didn't reevaluate it) there is going to be a big difference if you tag it 59 rather than 79, it's going to sell poorly in both ways, they probably planning to milk early adopters and make fast sales
 
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gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,317
They could buy Squeenix and Capcom and have some left for Sega with the money it'd take to moneyhat GTA6.

Nah if we talking time exclusive it won't be that much .
They would have to cover the lost of sales on lets say a year on XSX consoles .
Depending on how much the new XB sell would matter.
It would be expensive as hell but no where what some think and not worth the ROI also .

How do you know? I'd be very surprised if Horizon doesn't make it. You think Sony has no games for the second half of the year?

GT7 and R&C will also make it this year .
IMO the only Sony game that we know about that might not make it in 2021 is GOWR.
 
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John Frost

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,373
Canada
1. Destruction all-stars (AAA)
2. Returnal (AAA)
3. Ratchet and clank : rift apart. (AAA)
4. Gt 7. (AAA)
5. Horizon forbidden west. (AAA)
6. God of war Ragnarok. (AAA)
7. Kena : bridge of spirit (AAA)
8. Deathloop. (AAA)
9. Ghostwire Tokyo. (AAA)
10. Project athia. (AAA)
11. Final fantasy 16. (AAA)
( All of them are exclusives , timed atleast)
Is this the best 1st year of a console ever?? 🤔🤔

But Japan Studio!
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
The release date trailer completely sold me on Returnal, I hope there's a PS5 bundle with the game come March.
Yeah, it keeps looking better each time we see more of it.
Also, like danhz said, even without the price hike to $70 I think we'd still have seen complaining about it being the old full $60 too even though we've already known it's Housemarque's first AAA project, so I was kind of already expecting it to be a full price title and not a budget title since it looks like a really big jump in scope and production values from their past arcade style games while still inheriting some of their cool trademark bullet hell action.
 

Viceratops

Banned
Jun 29, 2018
2,570
1. Destruction all-stars (AAA)
2. Returnal (AAA)
3. Ratchet and clank : rift apart. (AAA)
4. Gt 7. (AAA)
5. Horizon forbidden west. (AAA)
6. God of war Ragnarok. (AAA)
7. Kena : bridge of spirit (AAA)
8. Deathloop. (AAA)
9. Ghostwire Tokyo. (AAA)
10. Project athia. (AAA)
11. Final fantasy 16. (AAA)
( All of them are exclusives , timed atleast)
Is this the best 1st year of a console ever?? 🤔🤔
Kena is not a AAA game. Doesn't make me less excited for it but still, keep in mind what the scale is most likely going to be. And no way are you getting both Athia and XVI in the same year. Other than that though, completely ridiculous year for PS5.
 

WhiteNovember

Member
Aug 15, 2018
2,192
Kena is not a AAA game. Doesn't make me less excited for it but still, keep in mind what the scale is most likely going to be. And no way are you getting both Athia and XVI in the same year. Other than that though, completely ridiculous year for PS5.
True. But I think that Returnal and Destruction are also "just" AA and not AAA games.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,521
Home
Mhm, i think if you compare Ratchet 2016 to the OG Game not much is left there that you can compare it to. It's essentially a different Game that shares a few similar level parts from the original Game. Planets like Veldin are 100% different for example, other planets were cut, new ones were added.
It doesn't change the fact that it's not a AAA game, despite looking and feeling like one due to Insomniac's crazy level of polish.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,521
Home
True. But I think that Returnal and Destruction are also "just" AA and not AAA games.
AAA games are defined by their budget, not their genre. Both are definitely AAA productions.
I hope it doesn't have a AAA budget because if so it's almost guaranteed to flop financially. That game ain't selling enough for that.
AAA budgets can range from 20M to 200+M if not more. Control was around 20~30M to develop.

At this budget, even if they only sold 1M copies, they would break even and make profit.

Even their best arcade games didn't sell enough at 20-30$ to be profitable. I don't see your point. There's a reason why they abandoned these types of games and went with AAA instead.
1. Destruction all-stars (AAA)
2. Returnal (AAA)
3. Ratchet and clank : rift apart. (AAA)
4. Gt 7. (AAA)
5. Horizon forbidden west. (AAA)
6. God of war Ragnarok. (AAA)
7. Kena : bridge of spirit (AAA)
8. Deathloop. (AAA)
9. Ghostwire Tokyo. (AAA)
10. Project athia. (AAA)
11. Final fantasy 16. (AAA)
( All of them are exclusives , timed atleast)
Is this the best 1st year of a console ever?? 🤔🤔
Kena is a high-end(/AAA) looking indie game, just like Hellblade was when it released. However, it is not a AAA game.
 
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WhiteNovember

Member
Aug 15, 2018
2,192
AAA games are defined by their budget, not their genre. Both are definitely AAA productions.

AAA budgets can range from 20M to 200+M if not more. Control was around 20~30M to develop.

At this budget, even if they only sold 1M copies, they would break even and make profit.

Even their best arcade games didn't sell enough at 20-30$ to be profitable. I don't see your point. There's a reason why they abandoned these types of games and went with AAA instead.

Kena is a high-end(/AAA) looking indie game, just like Hellblade was when it released. However, it is not a AAA game.
Hm ok. I don't have a problem with the genre, but I really thought both games don't have a high budget. But when the scale for a AAA games already starts at 20M (and goes over 200M), than of course it is an AAA game. But in this case I think the categorization in A/AA/AAA feels unnecessary.
Didn't mean to attack Returnal/Destruction. Returnal is a day one title for me and I think Destruction is an interesting title. But I also see a difference between Returnal and for example Tlou.
 

F4r0_Atak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,521
Home
Hm ok. I don't have a problem with the genre, but I really thought both games don't have a high budget. But when the scale for a AAA games already starts at 20M (and goes over 200M), than of course it is an AAA game. But in this case I think the categorization in A/AA/AAA feels unnecessary.
Didn't mean to attack Returnal/Destruction. Returnal is a day one title for me and I think Destruction is an interesting title. But I also see a difference between Returnal and for example Tlou.
There is a difference. One game was developed by a team of ~80+ people, while the other was developed by a team of ~250+ people (with a total of ~2000+ people working on it if you add in the outsourcing studios). The Last of Us Part 2 was the game it is because of all the studios who helped with it. So the budget for TLOU2 was probably 10-20 times that of Returnal.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,317
There is a difference. One game was developed by a team of ~80+ people, while the other was developed by a team of ~250+ people (with a total of ~2000+ people working on it if you add in the outsourcing studios). The Last of Us Part 2 was the game it is because of all the studios who helped with it. So the budget for TLOU2 was probably 10-20 times that of Returnal.

I don' think we should say it developed by 80 people yet .
Best to wait for the credits and seeing the game.
Like for DS remake BP is around that size but they also had a good amount of outsourcing.
These days numbers of devs at a studio don't tell you much even for indies.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,183
Los Angeles, CA
I'm reminded why I dipped from the previous OT...

We aren't even 15 pages in yet, guys... 😭🤦🏽‍♂️

Anyway, I'm so damned pumped for Returnal! I think I might preorder the digital version soon. Not sure why I haven't already, to be honest. So much good shit is out, coming out, and in development that I just can't bring myself to feel anything but excitement.

Also, me and my buds finally started playing Ghost of Tsushima Legends, and damn, it is so...fucking...fun. We're doing the story missions now, and it's crazy how satisfying it is going through an enemy camp, and coordinating stealth kills, or rushing to aid your partner if they get into a scrap.

Kind of makes me wish the single player campaign had co-op too! Such an amazing game
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,100
Even though the price turned me off from the game, I really do hope for the best for Returnal. It's a very cool looking game. I hope it's meets whatever Sony's expectations are, which CAN'T be that high. Assuming good reviews, I will very likely pick it up when it's about $40.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,100
I don't see it mentioned much, but man is it so nice to have four USB ports on PS5 (particularly that there are two in the back). Having two USB ports on PS4, both on the front, was annoying. All I could have plugged in was my PSVR and external hard drive, and the hard drive had to be plugged into the front which is messy looking.

And what's nice is that when PSVR2 eventually comes out, it will probably have inside-out tracking and not require a camera, which means the USB-C port will probably be for the PSVR2, and you'll still have three other USB-A ports.
 

Deluxera

Member
Mar 13, 2020
2,635
Returnal looks like a competent game that I would like to try eventually. However that 80€ price tag does not match the expectations, hype, prestige and perceived value of this game. This may be sad but that's how it is.

And for those who are tired of this "value" discussion, this is only the beginning. The price hike of games is going to be a major factor in next-gen. I predict that we won't see much more of these record-breaking launches of first-party games, people will be a lot more cautious about their purchases. The reported abysmal numbers of Miles Morales and Demon's Souls are early indications of this.
 

Ariakon44

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 17, 2020
10,259
Returnal looks like a competent game that I would like to try eventually. However that 80€ price tag does not match the expectations, hype, prestige and perceived value of this game. This may be sad but that's how it is.

And for those who are tired of this "value" discussion, this is only the beginning. The price hike of games is going to be a major factor in next-gen. I predict that we won't see much more of these record-breaking launches of first-party games, people will be a lot more cautious about their purchases. The reported abysmal numbers of Miles Morales and Demon's Souls are early indications of this.


Abysmal? Are you only using the Japanese charts as evidence here? I don't necessarily disagree with your point about value, but I don't think these are good examples to use and I think the evidence is still out on whether that price will ding sales or not, considering we haven't seen a truly big game come out at $70 yet. (EDIT: The PS5 edition of Call of Duty Cold War is $70 and it outsold Miles Morales in the EU to be the best-selling digital game on the system)


Matt Piscatella was quoted in Venturebeat about Miles Morales' launch sales:

"Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales was the third best-selling game of November, while ranking second on PlayStation platforms," said Piscatella. "Launch month sales of Marvel's Spider-Man: Miles Morales are the second highest amongst superhero games on PlayStation platforms in U.S. history, trailing only the September 2018 sales of Marvel's Spider-Man."

Selling better than Arkham Knight's ps4 debut is pretty good, I think.

Demon's Souls fared worse, at number 10 for the month, but considering it was ps5 only and a fairly niche game going against the usual sales juggernauts, that's not bad at all. Those are all US numbers, true, but MM and Demon's seemed to perform just fine in the UK as well, from what I saw.


Miles Morales was priced at $49.99.
 
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