PlayStation is winning me over thanks to their belief in console generations

[Proven]

Yep, same shit, different say.

Here's all anyone needs to know, and they can print it and hang it on their wall for all I care. Mark it down, bookmark it, whatever.

1) Games are going to run, look and play similar on the Scarlett and PS5.

2) Next gen games are going to be the same as this gen with a slightly better coat of paint, i.e. similar, bigger/prettier and not much else. There will be no game design revolution because of an SSD.

Anyone who believes either of the above are false is either a giant fanboy or they've fallen victim to the marketing, plain and simple.

Past that, this thread is too stupid for words and is nothing but a circlejerk. Enjoy arguing past each other over things none of you have any concrete information about.

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As soon as consoles became similar to PCs in spec I realized that next gen consoles aren't magic boxes and the games will basically be the same. Anyone who honestly thinks the PS5 is going to dramatically change the way games are designed is falling for PR hype

 

[Mr_DyZ]

Y'all make a good point in this thread, the Gamepass model does kinda kill MS's ability to make Xbox Infinite exclusives. They need Xbox One owners to stay subbed. Yikes.

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I'll take Gamepass over exclusives anyday, especially if it allows me to not only game from my console or PC, but with Project XCloud anywhere else I want. Give me this all day everyday over any new exclusive. If I want to play exclusives, I'll hop on my PS4/5. We live in a time where console accessibilty is at it's highest. I'd be curious on the stats, but I feel like tons of people have multiple platforms, and this idea of pledging allegiance to one is so archaic.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Y'all make a good point in this thread, the Gamepass model does kinda kill MS's ability to make Xbox Infinite exclusives. They need Xbox One owners to stay subbed. Yikes.

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I don't think so. The same could be said about continuing to make Xbox 360 titles to keep those owners subscribed to Gold.

 

[N.Domixis]

I don't think so. The same could be said about continuing to make Xbox 360 titles to keep those owners subscribed to Gold.

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Xbox 360 never had gamepass

 

[Deleted member 45460]

Y'all make a good point in this thread, the Gamepass model does kinda kill MS's ability to make Xbox Infinite exclusives. They need Xbox One owners to stay subbed. Yikes.

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"yikes"? They've really built these things to take advantage of scaling and once that isn't feasible anymore then they can offer xCloud as a way for xbox one player to still play new games. I don't see that as a yikes.

 

[Pryme]

Jim may have said that they want a fast transition so there's only one way to do that.

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No. There are multiple ways of doing that. Including attractive pricing , great trade in programs and compelling hardware.

Not just one way.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Xbox 360 never had gamepass

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I specifically said 'Gold', as in Xbox Live Gold

 

[Wagram]

Gamepass is great, but when you work 50 hours a week you don't have infinite time. I have a backlog and the thought of having 200 more games in my backlog is ridiculous. Just don't have time.

And I am worried about this no console left behind mentality. My Xbox One X is an amazing device, but Microsoft has thoroughly failed to take any advantage of it.

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

PC being one long never ending ecosystem has really killed the quality of games on the platform.

We need a next-gen PC with a completely distinct and separate ecosystem to allow for really amazing new games to be made.

 

[Aadiboy]

I mean, if load times are eliminated I don't see how that can't change game design

 

[Bitch Pudding]

I own a PS4 Pro. I wouldn't upgrade to PS5 anytime soon if it didn't offer exclusives which aren't hold back by prehistoric hardware. But since it will I'll get one day 1. So, yes, massive selling point for me.

 

[DJtal]

PC being one long never ending ecosystem has really killed the quality of games on the platform.

We need a next-gen PC with a completely distinct and separate ecosystem to allow for really amazing new games to be made.

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Come on now, don't ruin my fun lol

 

[Grayson]

This is abit premature and alot of people always seem to forget PC games wich scales form a low end to a extreme high end.
OG Xbox One is just gonna be certain pc spec of a game.

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Except the new consoles have super fast ssd which factually allows for new design spaces. The ones that take advantage won't be easily downscaled if at all. This can and probably will hold back any games MS decides to be cross gen.

edit: reading more of the thread this is pretty much accepted.

 

[Grayson]

This thread reads that people want to find another reason to be negative about Xbox with no basis for it

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Posts like this just come across as playing victim and add nothing. Actual arguments have been put forth about ssd usage and design so it's not what you're saying. Take a step back and breathe.

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

Except the new consoles have super fast ssd which factually allows for new design spaces. The ones that take advantage won't be easily downscaled if at all. This can and probably will hold back any games MS decides to be cross gen.

edit: reading more of the thread this is pretty much accepted.

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Not all games will be significantly impacted by that. So, those can be cross-gen, while others can be scarlett only.

It's just like specifying minimum hardware requirements for PC games.

 

[Beer Monkey]

X1 games will also be BC on Scarlett. Doesn't mean Sony won't make TLOU2: R, especially with their love of remaster and remakes.

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I mean it will be super low effort to do so. Remastering TLOU was a big effort because it was porting Cell to Jaguar (also Nvidia to AMD GPU) which is night and day. Cross gen shit is basically going to fall into their lap this time.

 

[Grayson]

Not all games will be significantly impacted by that. So, those can be cross-gen, while others can be scarlett only.

It's just like specifying minimum hardware requirements for PC games.

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Nothing I posted denies that. Merely with the game pass focus and need for games to be back compatible there is a friction.

 

[Dr.Osiris]

Ps4 has amazing games. Period.

Xbox seems to always try to catch up but they've fallen so far behind that I feel sorry for them. The xbox "hype" you hear around in forums is just that, hype. Where are the games? What has xbox (one) been doing all this time?

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

Nothing I posted denies that. Merely with the game pass focus and need for games to be back compatible there is a friction.

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PC and Xbox console game pass libraries aren't the same, why would they be required to be the same between X1 and Scarlett?

I think we'll see cross-gen as much as makes sense, but I highly doubt devs will feel forced or restricted to always developing cross-gen games.

 

[Splader]

Are people really worried about cross gen play lol? Like usual, most games will support Xbox one and ps4 until late 2021. This isn't a new situation.

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

Ps4 has amazing games. Period.

Xbox seems to always try to catch up but they've fallen so far behind that I feel sorry for them. The xbox "hype" you hear around in forums is just that, hype. Where are the games? What has xbox (one) been doing all this time?

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You've missed out on some good times if you ignored Xbox's offerings because of this "Where are the games?" mentality.

All of the platforms have great games on them.

 

[MonsterMech]

Yes, tools wise it'll be very iterative.

But I think you may be underestimating the impact of target performance envelope here and on game scalability. And performance-profile wise, it will be possibly quite different vs previous changes, with big shifts along 4 runtime-critical components instead of the usual 3.

But on tools also - using engines supported on multiple devices doesn't make porting between devices necessarily easy or trivial. The target performance envelope matters. I think Switch actually proves that case. You mention a couple of games, The Witcher etc. but they were not easy undertakings and the fact there has only been a few such 'ambitious ports' speaks volumes. And if they took the opposite approach - started with Switch and then ported up, do you really think the game would have turned out the exact same on PS4/XB1/PC as what we originally got? I don't think so, and I'm sure CDPR themselves were glad not to have had to worry about Switch during original development of the game. I've little doubt if they had had to worry about it as a simultaneous release with the PS4/XB1/PC release it would have affected the overall development.

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At this point all the evidence we have points to the fact that game engines are more scalable than ever, while tools and hardware are the most flexible/iterative ever.

PS5 games will work on PS4(or vise versa) with zero/minimal work(just like it works on PC) In a way we've never seen in the past.

There's absolutely no reason for there to be PS5 exclusives early on other than to promote PS5 sales.

 

[Altair]

Ps4 has amazing games. Period.

Xbox seems to always try to catch up but they've fallen so far behind that I feel sorry for them. The xbox "hype" you hear around in forums is just that, hype. Where are the games? What has xbox (one) been doing all this time?

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News to me because I've been enjoying their many offerings. This whole "Xbox has no games" mentality is a myth and the fact that people keep perpetuating it is pathetic.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Ps4 has amazing games. Period.

Xbox seems to always try to catch up but they've fallen so far behind that I feel sorry for them. The xbox "hype" you hear around in forums is just that, hype. Where are the games? What has xbox (one) been doing all this time?

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More and more games will come. That's what they have all these studios for.

 

[gofreak]

PS5 games will work on PS4(or vise versa) with zero/minimal work(just like it works on PC) In a way we've never seen in the past.

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I don't see any evidence for that and highly doubt it. Once a PS5 game - for example - starts using >20MB/s of data streaming throughout, the idea it could translate to PS4 with zero work doesn't make sense. Ditto for any resource once you tip over what a PS4 could do, but I highlight that just because it will probably be the easiest limitation for a PS5 game to breach given how low that bandwidth is on PS4.

The idea that games can be as blindly performance agnostic as that, I just don't see it happening. The PS4 baseline just isn't that high to put in 'go nuts and don't worry about performance' territory.

For now we'll just have to agree to disagree in our predictions, but we will see what happens.

 

[MonsterMech]

I don't see any evidence for that and highly doubt it. Once a PS5 game - for example - starts using >20MB/s of data streaming throughout, the idea it could translate to PS4 with zero work doesn't make sense. Ditto for any resource once you tip over what a PS4 could do, but I highlight that just because it will probably be the easiest limitation for a PS5 game to breach given how low that bandwidth is on PS4.

The idea that games can be as blindly performance agnostic as that, I just don't see it happening. The PS4 baseline just isn't that high to put in 'go nuts and don't worry about performance' territory.

For now we'll just have to agree to disagree in our predictions, but we will see what happens.

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It works like that on pc already. All of what's in the new consoles, is and has been available for a long time.

 

[Grayson]

PC and Xbox console game pass libraries aren't the same, why would they be required to be the same between X1 and Scarlett?

I think we'll see cross-gen as much as makes sense, but I highly doubt devs will feel forced or restricted to always developing cross-gen games.

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They don't need to be the same. They need to continue to provide content. Why did you jump to that conclusion?

 

[DestroyerOfWorlds]

They don't need to be the same. They need to continue to provide content. Why did you jump to that conclusion?

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They will still be adding content to game pass, but they also want to encourage people to upgrade. Throwing a flashy new game into game pass that only runs on scarlett accomplishes both of those things.

 

[VeePs]

Maybe MS should communicate better, i mean they are the ones with all the answers.
I'm 100% sure Phil once said "No more generations"

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"We had the discussion years ago 'do we want to go do another generation?' Yes, and do we think there will be multiple generations ahead of us? I actually think there probably is," Spencer said. "So we're going all in. We're all-in on Project Scarlett and I want to compete, and I want to compete in the right ways, which is why we're focused on cross-play and backward compatibility." Spencers quote from X019

What does no more generations even mean, does it mean the same thing to you that it does to Phil?

When I see the Microsoft team talking about cross generation, "no generation", etc. I think of something like PC. Where, depending on the game, it can run on multiple hardware. You can play with folks on Xbox One, One X, Scarlett, Steam, Windows Store players, xCloud, etc.

Yes, some games will be developed with Scarlett (and ported to PC) in mind. Some games will be PC only (Age of Empires II DE, Age of Empires 4 - which might be ported to console down the line but most likely will require KB & M). And some games will be developed and be scalable on all hardware.

Microsoft isn't going to force developers to release remastered games on Scarlett. They aren't going to close down Xbox One servers for Sea of Thieves in a year. Instead you can expect them to support these games on Scarlett. And some titles like Everwild can be played on both Xbox One or Scarlett. You'll be able to play it on your phone with xCloud. I believe thats what no generations means.

And yes, just like PC, for some games you'll need certain hardware (Scarlett) to have games run. If a game like Forza Horizon 5 launches in 2022, I don't see it supporting Xbox One hardware, but we'll see I guess. Anthony Hopkins has posted a video of Phil commenting "one of the nice things about this shift from 1X to project Scarlett is that you will be able to play the games of today, you'll be able to play them tomorrow on future hardware, it's one of the commitments we made this gen, as we came out with 1X it was the same games you are playing on x1 just looking better, we want to do that but I also know people want to be excited about new stories, new characters on the new platform and that's something we are focused on"

 

[•79•]

At this point all the evidence we have points to the fact that game engines are more scalable than ever, while tools and hardware are the most flexible/iterative ever.

PS5 games will work on PS4(or vise versa) with zero/minimal work(just like it works on PC) In a way we've never seen in the past.

There's absolutely no reason for there to be PS5 exclusives early on other than to promote PS5 sales.

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Are you making PS4 and PS5 games?

 

[Mad_Rhetoric]

xbox still believes in console generations.

 

[OneBadMutha]

Console generations as we knew them were a thing because of limitations. They weren't a feature. Games in the first 2 years rarely took advantage of hardware. Some of this gens best games in the first 2 years, Titanfall, Destiny, Tomb Raider, MGS5 and Forza Horizon 2...had 360 versions. It takes 3 to 4 years to develop a game ground up for next iteration of hardware. The most impressive games early next gen will be the ones that scaled up the best. These console will be using the same architecture with better scaling tools. Anything limited to next gen consoles in the first 2 years is likely not better because of it.

If Sony or Microsoft announce games built for the ground up for next gen at E3 2020, don't expect to see them until 2023.

Sony and Microsoft won't be doing anything drastically different. Difference is messaging. Sony, per usual, kills microsoft at messaging to enthusiasts.

 

[Ruck]

yall are crazy. Why do you even care what hardware a launch game targets on the low end? Launch games are always mediocre at best. People saying Killzone looked amazing forget it was also pretty boring and not very good. Meanwhile AC4 was a cross gen title and by far the best game of the launch. It literally does not matter if a game is cross gen. You're just looking for things to complain about.

Also anybody flat out staying "facts" about how the PS5 will work etc are full of shit. We know absolutely nothing about the console except that it exists and there's a patent for the controller and dev kit

 

[MonsterMech]

Are you making PS4 and PS5 games?

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Are you?

 

[VeePs]

Some of this gens best games in the first 2 years, Titanfall, Destiny, Tomb Raider, MGS5 and Forza Horizon 2...had 360 versions.

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One of the best games this generation, Breath of the Wild, is a cross-gen game designed for Wii U hardware.

I'm excited for next generation, and I hope developers take advantage of the new hardware at every opportunity. Cross gen doesn't mean a game is going to be bad, it doesn't mean the game is going to be limited, it doesn't mean the game won't be unique etc.

It can be, but ultimately it'll depend on the developers and the game.

 

[Angst]

More power time you, though I have to say seeing someone who chose to represent themselves online with an image of a PlayStation IP say that "PlayStation is winning then over" made me smile :)

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I wonder why they chose that image.

Perhaps because PlayStation won them over...

 

[gofreak]

It works like that on pc already. All of what's in the new consoles, is and has been available for a long time.

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Very few are developing around those things as a requirement though. They're developing around much lower requirements and earlier tech to keep a door open to the current consoles, if they didn't start on console in the first place.

But lets look at a game that does lean in on new things the next consoles are bringing - Star Citizen. The tools and engine used to build the game (Lumberyard) are available across platforms, including PS4 and Xbox One.

By the logic of your argument, Star Citzen could be brought to PS4 or Xbox One with graphical scaling, minimal or 'zero' work, and without affecting the game's development? I'm completely unconvinced of that.

As economics allow more games to target a higher baseline, like Star Citizen - and an even higher one in the next-gen consoles than SC currently does - I think you'll find those devs equally capable of developing things that would also be a very difficult port-down to PS4/XB1. And I think they will - I don't think SC will be an outlier in its fundamental dependence on more memory and storage throughput than the current consoles provide.

 

[Grayson]

They will still be adding content to game pass, but they also want to encourage people to upgrade. Throwing a flashy new game into game pass that only runs on scarlett accomplishes both of those things.

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Not what I'm reading but we shall see.

 

[•79•]

Are you?

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No, but I'm not making grand assumptions.

 

[MonsterMech]

Very few are developing around those things as a requirement though. Most, 'artificially' match their minimum spec to what the consoles can do.

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That's what you made up. Doesn't make it truth.

 

[MonsterMech]

No, but I'm not making grand assumptions.

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Neither am I

 

[Tetrinski]

What compromises is Halo suffering that didn't affect the Last of Us games not releasing directly in the next machine? What would Breath of the wild be like without the WiiU version?

I always thought that was a selfish perspective; you're already playing the better version of a game, and for people who can't afford the new hardware, a much better option than no game at all. Some of you aren't happy unless the studio come to your home with a survey and make the game exactly how you want it.

 

[Angst]

People in this thread thinking that being able to develop games with a SSD in mind as a baseline won't change game design are naive.

Developing with a SSD in mind WILL CHANGE GAME DESIGN. SSD's will be the new minimum when consoles have them. You will start seeing SSD's listed on the minimum system requirements on a game on PC's just like you do currently for graphics cards.

 

[gofreak]

That's what you made up. Doesn't make it truth.

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I edited my post for clarity - the core point is very few are developing around those requirements to date. True or false? And why?

And when can I expect Star Citizen on XB1 and PS4? ;)

 

[•79•]

Neither am I

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At this point all the evidence we have points to the fact that game engines are more scalable than ever, while tools and hardware are the most flexible/iterative ever.

PS5 games will work on PS4(or vise versa) with zero/minimal work(just like it works on PC) In a way we've never seen in the past.

There's absolutely no reason for there to be PS5 exclusives early on other than to promote PS5 sales.

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Unless you have firsthand experience making games for these boxes that's an assumption

 

[Lothars]

People in this thread thinking that being able to develop games with a SSD in mind as a baseline won't change game design are naive.

Developing with a SSD in mind WILL CHANGE GAME DESIGN. SSD's will be the new minimum when consoles have them. You will start seeing SSD's listed on the minimum system requirements on a game on PC's just like you do currently for graphics cards.

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Nobody is being naive about it, SSD's will be a recommended requirement but not a minimum requirement.

 

[xxracerxx]

PS5 games will work on PS4(or vise versa) with zero/minimal work(just like it works on PC) In a way we've never seen in the past.

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What are you smoking?

 

[Angst]

Nobody is being naive about it, SSD's will be a recommended requirement but not a minimum requirement.

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I think its going to change game design in the same way that PS3/360 lead to us having far more open world games than the PS2 era had. I'll put it that way. Game design now is done in such a way that there are always barriers slowing you down so that the game has time to load environments you are approaching. They do that with long hallways or making you crawl through cracks in the wall, or artificially slowing your speed down. This won't happen with a solid state drive.

If you are rocking a standard HDD drive when you approach things like this I imagine the game will just stop completely until these areas are loaded. I think its going to be a pretty shitty experience rocking a regular hard drive in the next few years on PC.

 

[Lothars]

I think its going to change game design in the same way that PS3/360 lead to us having far more open world games than the PS2 era had. I'll put it that way. Game design now is done in such a way that there are always barriers slowing you down so that the game has time to load environments you are approaching. They do that with long hallways or making you crawl through cracks in the wall, or artificially slowing your speed down. This won't happen with a solid state drive.

If you are rocking a standard HDD drive when you approach things like this I imagine the game will just stop completely until these areas are loaded. I think its going to be a pretty shitty experience rocking a regular hard drive in the next few years on PC.

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I know what it does, I've had SSD's for a decade but what I am saying is that SSD's are not going to be required to play games going forward, it will be exactly as it is now, They will be recommended because it can really make a difference but games will still be fine without them. Which is why I am saying they will be the recommended specs but they will not be the minimum specs to play a game.

 

[Footos22]

The biggest difference between PS5 and Scarlet out the gate is PS5 will have PS5 exclusives. That's a major selling point to upgrade imo

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Bit will they. No one knows yet.