don't edit anything.
Take a look at the avatars of people mocking your opinion and move on.
I mean i don't agree with you but some of the replies you got are pretty shitty.
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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
- Thread starter vestan
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Take a look at the avatars of people mocking your opinion and move on.
I mean i don't agree with you but some of the replies you got are pretty shitty.
XSX comparisons aside the PS5 is a true next gen leap like its competitor.
I expected 3.2GHz CPU, got 3.5GHz
I expected 11TF, still good with 10TF.
I expected 16GB GDDR6, i got that.
I expected crazy SSD, definetly got that.
Overall satisfied with the PS5
I expected 3.2GHz CPU, got 3.5GHz
I expected 11TF, still good with 10TF.
I expected 16GB GDDR6, i got that.
I expected crazy SSD, definetly got that.
Overall satisfied with the PS5
It will certainly open up a lot of opportunities for first party games, but don't expect multiplatform games to take full advantage of it beyond faster load times.
But XSX moving to an SSD will mean that multipatform games will still be able to do a lot more than last gen games in regards to this stuff.
Funny enough... I don't think it is pricey.
I mean it got a custom flash controller with the SSD, but the majority of the customization related to the SSD are done in the APU.
I've been up since 6 hours prior to the PS5 video, i'm way too tired to argue now lol so i just conceded.
ty though :p
dude I just watched the df video and they had the PowerPoint slide that showed all the custom stuff they added for the ssd tio the apu. That thing looks just as big as the Xbox apu.
16 more CUs is only around 40mm2. The ssd stuff had several different modules within it.
OP
OP
Yeah. Same here. I trust devs, the fact they say the systems were pretty much equal, playing both to the strengths is what matters to next gen.
Has anyone discussed yet what possible effects the cache setup might have? Mr. Cerny touted greater cache speed as one of the inherent benefits of the narrow/fast design approach. And from what we know, PS5's L2 cache will not only be faster than XSX, but there's more of it as a ratio with compute. Since both machines have 2 Shader Engines, they'll likely have very similar amounts of the L2 cache attached to it. For example, the block diagram render of the XSX chip doesn't show L2 being any larger proportionally versus the PHY interfaces, as compared to PC Navi parts. And presumably with a comparatively small GPU, PS5 isn't under any sizing pressure to reduce theirs.
That would mean that XSX has 52 CUs sharing about the same amount of cache as 36 CUs share on PS5. I unfortunately don't know if that's significant, or how it would manifest. What aspects of rendering are most likely to be L2-bound? Any? Or is it just a fillip in the way devs have to address their work, with no impact to onscreen results?
That would mean that XSX has 52 CUs sharing about the same amount of cache as 36 CUs share on PS5. I unfortunately don't know if that's significant, or how it would manifest. What aspects of rendering are most likely to be L2-bound? Any? Or is it just a fillip in the way devs have to address their work, with no impact to onscreen results?
I will never expect 3rd party games to take advantage of what Sony is offering them, that would not be practical in any sense. We are lucky that both companies have put in a SSD in their systems and that you cannot just put in a slower replacement you have to put in one that matches their specs.
However, we all know Sony's 1st party will have a directive to take advantage of what they are given. I bet you that Polyphony Digital is using it to their full benefit (What they can achieve right now) when it comes to their new GT title.
What I look forward to from 3rd party titles is just better games.
What I look forward to from 1st party titles are games that push the envelope.
it was an assumption based on current zen 2 cpu in the 4800u apus. If it's 30w at 3.5ghz, to get 10-15w to feed the gpu, we will need to drop down to half the clock, no?
That said, i literally just read the df article where cerny talks about that 2% drop in frequency freeing up 10% of the tdp budget and i think i see what hes saying now. The same 2% drop we would see in the gpu would also apply to the cpu.
I still can't wrap my head around tech. Reading that in the article helped a lot more than the video and people explaining it here. Bear with me.
Fair enough, I just see a lot of people thinking the PS5's SSD will mean a dramatic difference in multiplatform games when in those cases it will mainly be stuff like shaving a few seconds off of load times and maybe slightly better LoDs.
I am Interested to see what Sony's first party games do to take advantage of the SSD and also interested to see what MS 1st party devs come up with to try to stay competitive with that, or will they just try to push out higher quality visuals instead?
It will be a totally uninteresting gen for multiplatform games as they will be largely the same, but when it comes to first party things are going to be very interesting.
Here's the specs I hoped for:
Can it run next gen Bloodborne 2, Spiderman 2, and God of War 2?
Looks good.
e3 time can't come soon enough. I'm assuming once Microsoft starts showing games along with third parties we'll start seeing ps5 stuff as well.
Well you certainly didn't understand what Cerny said. Even DF clarified that ALL PS5 will be running at the same speed when playing a game. The "variability" aspect is for the developers to decide as they make their game. Go read the DF article and educate yourself.
Look I was expecting a 11.3 tfconsole and was slightly disappointed this morning. But then as I kept watching I noticed this a very tricked out and well thought out piece of kit. It shows Sony is back to being inventive after playing it safe with PS4 but at the same time cerny went with a strat that served him well with current gen. Time to triangle is still of utmost importance and while his silicon budget obviously went up after PS4 monster success he still went with 36cu because of ease of use. He likes the idea of narrow and fast over wide and slow for efficiency in power and game development. The 36CU for backwards compatibility I'm sure was a thought but it's not the reason it's 36CU.
At the end of the day this is the Sony I really love, the one who gets innovative and creates their own tech, the Sony that takes chances to innovate the industry. Maybe it won't be great, but I love them taking shots like this to change the foundation of game creation
At the end of the day this is the Sony I really love, the one who gets innovative and creates their own tech, the Sony that takes chances to innovate the industry. Maybe it won't be great, but I love them taking shots like this to change the foundation of game creation
We're still getting lots of streams around that time, that's why the person said "E3 Time" not E3.
Honestly, I think the ML aspect of the XSX hardware is entirely there because of their plans to sublet Xcloud blades for AI and machine learning. It will have basically no impact on how games run.
It's impossible to make that statement currently as you are comparing a deep dive 52 minute presentation from an architect with a high level made for everyone spec sheet and df analysis.
The Xbox x was originally designed based on many gaming engines, providing 4k output when many said it was impossible. That machine was well designed and built for a mass of different engines.
The physical internals of the series x console show no lack of innnovation wit there double motherboard, they have attempted to fix controller latency, post hdr for older titles etc. We don't know what the architectural improvements are this stage and it's too early to say one is a better developer platform as it makes it sound like the Xbox was just thrown together which clearly is incorrect. Both will have custom advantages, let MS have an opportunity to talk in detail about the work they've done.
Well, so many threads after the PS5 specs reveal. I'll try to write down my opinion here instead.
Both consoles are great imho.
Both company knows where they are heading for their next gen hardware.
But, for me, it'll come which company can strike the "perfect" balance between cost and performance.
After the corona outbreak, It give me chills about the impact on the economy. The US$ exchange rate already increasing like crazy in my country.
and I don't think it'll be back to normal anytime soon. Spending even a US$399 game console will be hard, let alone a US$499-599 game console.
For the enthusiast probably it'll be no problem. For the general public? it'll be hard imho.
Both consoles are great imho.
Both company knows where they are heading for their next gen hardware.
But, for me, it'll come which company can strike the "perfect" balance between cost and performance.
After the corona outbreak, It give me chills about the impact on the economy. The US$ exchange rate already increasing like crazy in my country.
and I don't think it'll be back to normal anytime soon. Spending even a US$399 game console will be hard, let alone a US$499-599 game console.
For the enthusiast probably it'll be no problem. For the general public? it'll be hard imho.
Seriously, the Xbox trolls have been strong in this thread. They need to GTFO seriously. Last couple pages were a shtshow
If the difference is never almost going to be there at 1-2% there is no reason for Sony to highlight that it is variable frequency.
You're thinking in terms of PCs, which are bogged down by years of legacy requirements and layers upon layers of bottlenecks.
This SSD is has an input/output stack that is optimised up the wazoo and can be fully taken advantage of. This isn't just about load times...they've seemingly reached a threshold where the barriers are lifted and vast amounts of data can be loaded in and out of memory faster than you can turn around to look at it. This effects the fundamentals of game world design.
You're right about LOD, i never thought about that! I made many tests with Unreal Engine 4, but i'm not a professional developer. Thank you for your post!
Great
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Don't blame Cerny for cleaning up a mess on short notice.
Now, that the thread slowed down, I want to clarify a few questions I have as non-English speaker and not really technical person.
1. BC.
Am I right assuming that every PS4 game will work on PS5 in "PS4(Pro)" mode, and most of them will also be able to receive benefits from "boosting", but the latter - and the latter only - is not confirmed for every game as the tests continue.
2. Variable Frequency.
Thing I really don't understand. My understanding is as follows.
Right now (on current gen consoles) CPU and GPU operate on set frequencies, but sometimes games require more power, like watts power (why?), and that leads to overheating, fan noise, etc. etc. In PS5 Sony went with fixed power budget and variable frequencies so that the heat levels would be manageable.
So, here are questions:
- does it mean that PS5 is always consuming constant amount of power (even playing PS4's Doki-Doki Universe) or does it mean that power never goes beyond the specific amount?
- does it mean that the specific amount can produce cap frequencies (3.5 & 2.23) for CPU & GPU simultaneously or does it mean that there's some real "optimum" (like 3.4 & 2.1), and caps are there to not overdrive hardware in the great beyond even if power distribution between them allows it (like no need for CPU above 2.0 will not allow GPU to become 2.5)?
3. AMD Smart Shift
It allows "free" power to be redistributed to the GPU from the CPU (or vice versa) if the situation allows it, right? So, does it mean that there's possible above 10.3TF scenario, when capped GPU receives help from under-used CPU or is it something else?
Many thanks and sorry for being too lazy to read through all the thread. If there are posts there already explaining the matter, I would be happy to read them.
PS: still day 1.
1. BC.
Am I right assuming that every PS4 game will work on PS5 in "PS4(Pro)" mode, and most of them will also be able to receive benefits from "boosting", but the latter - and the latter only - is not confirmed for every game as the tests continue.
2. Variable Frequency.
Thing I really don't understand. My understanding is as follows.
Right now (on current gen consoles) CPU and GPU operate on set frequencies, but sometimes games require more power, like watts power (why?), and that leads to overheating, fan noise, etc. etc. In PS5 Sony went with fixed power budget and variable frequencies so that the heat levels would be manageable.
So, here are questions:
- does it mean that PS5 is always consuming constant amount of power (even playing PS4's Doki-Doki Universe) or does it mean that power never goes beyond the specific amount?
- does it mean that the specific amount can produce cap frequencies (3.5 & 2.23) for CPU & GPU simultaneously or does it mean that there's some real "optimum" (like 3.4 & 2.1), and caps are there to not overdrive hardware in the great beyond even if power distribution between them allows it (like no need for CPU above 2.0 will not allow GPU to become 2.5)?
3. AMD Smart Shift
It allows "free" power to be redistributed to the GPU from the CPU (or vice versa) if the situation allows it, right? So, does it mean that there's possible above 10.3TF scenario, when capped GPU receives help from under-used CPU or is it something else?
Many thanks and sorry for being too lazy to read through all the thread. If there are posts there already explaining the matter, I would be happy to read them.
PS: still day 1.
I see everyone saying that but I don't think the difference in GPU and CPU power is all that much and i'd happily give that 15% difference up for the novel 3d audio (huge audio nut) and the crazy ssd setup they have got going.
Did people miss what DF said about the added hardware for the SSD and the audio processor? The SSD has a coprocessor that amounts to an extra zen2 Core mayne even 2 and the audio processor is basically a RDNA2 compute unit that has been worked into an SPU. I think they compared the audio processor to the jaguar cpu's we have now.
So it seems that the PS5 actually has alot of extra processing power besides the GPU and CPU and I for one an excited to see what that amounts to.
The Xbox also offloads SSD processes from the CPU, so that's not exclusive to that.
Thanks for your feedback. I think people do often overlook that game graphics are a function of per-pixel compute and data. XSX's strengths in compute are obvious, and it will be interesting to see if 'data'-related strengths on PS5 become more obvious in time also.
I know, but he's just never going to be a salesman for the general public anyway. i struggle to get excited by him, DF did a better job even from just the dry Tech angle.
Cerny = 90 year old Anglican Bishop
Spencer =Leader of the Scientologists
I can't understand why anyone wouldn't be thrilled with the outlook for the console(s). Last couple of years there were doubts even ssds would make it in, whether we'd get 7-8tf, raytracing and there's many other aspects that we still haven't seen with how the console has key features. We know the controller has quite the update too, PS5 has surpassed all those... Xsx has laid out a couple more details in the features regarding playing games aspect like quick resume.
Coming from last gen:
Couldn't be happier.
Coming from last gen:
Couldn't be happier.
It is interesting that Sony didn't mention anything about memory for games and OS.
Is there any information about amount of memory and bandwith that will feed PS5 APU?
Is there any information about amount of memory and bandwith that will feed PS5 APU?
You're looking at the wrong end of the stick. A interactive feature, whether that's a weapon or something interactive like a cupboard, comes with a wide range of assets that are required for it to be interacted with and dynamic. Many common forms of these assets are loaded all the time. But finer grain control of memory allows more data to be loaded and unloaded on the fly. As a result, more memory can be put towards the fidelity of assets that are currently needing.
A great example is a player weapon in a third person game. It might just be holstered on the player character's back, but all the associated anims (movesets, attacks, impacts, interacts, etc), audio & VFX will be loaded whilst its there. With much faster I/O you can bring lots of that data within the time it takes the character to unholster that weapon, whilst clearing out the data it replaces.
And right now something like a basic idle anim might only be a few 10kb..., but anim requirements are about to go up: more detailed rigs, animated textures for cloth & skin movement, extra anims for more accurate blending & variety. A full anim set
As for Mesh LODs, a really detailed mesh (100,000+ polys) with multiple LOD levels can take up over 100 of megs of space. Not only will that detail be going up again on the next-gen, but higher resolutions can require more mesh LOD levels (And texture mip levels) to keep performance and quality balanced. So again, further fine grain control here can be beneficial.
Remember that with this gen, the amount of available memory is not increasing at the same rate as it has on previous generations. More efficient use of memory is a must if those CPUs and GPUs are going to be pushed appropriately and visuals noticeably improve.
As for "prep", what "prep" are you talking about exactly?
Lol I can't believe we were thinking the Github leak can't be real, as in Cerny would no way use the same amount of CU's used in the Pro (36) and now on the PS5 and just uplock it like mad, this in everyone eyes was inefficient and bad design overall, but here we are! it's exactly what Cerny did haha. Does this just prove no one here knows what they're talking about and this design is okay? or have Sony really fucked it up this time.
You'd think after this gen with the amount of money they've made on subscriptions, overall sales and install base they would come out swinging and drop a beast.
Looks like they really wanted to stick to that 399 price point.
You'd think after this gen with the amount of money they've made on subscriptions, overall sales and install base they would come out swinging and drop a beast.
Looks like they really wanted to stick to that 399 price point.
Same. I'm over the moon with these specs. This is the best looking gen technically to me in a long time. Both console designs are very solid. The things I'm upset by are extremely minor for both consoles. Both are day 1 for me, and my wallet will be crying because I need a new OLED to properly show them off.I can't understand why anyone wouldn't be thrilled with the outlook for the console(s). Last couple of years there were doubts even ssds would make it in, whether we'd get 7-8tf, raytracing and there's many other aspects that we still haven't seen with how the console has key features. We know the controller has quite the update too, PS5 has surpassed all those... Xsx has laid out a couple more details in the features regarding playing games aspect like quick resume.
Coming from last gen:
Couldn't be happier.
Thankfully the X series LG OLEDs are coming out considerably cheaper than before, and you'll almost certainly be able to get one on sale before November.
Makes you wonder why it was on the Playstation consumer youtube channel rather than via a GDC outlet...
That's my plan, unless the 9 series is still hanging at retail and is insanely cheap.
What would be the point in intentionally restricting their audience? I'd say the number of consumers that are actively turned off by this is extremely small.
We don't usually see GDC talks show up in that location, so it is somewhat unprecedented. There are endless things that don't make it out of the behind closed doors of internal development, people do not understand it.
The person I was responding to is responding to someone else who isn't a developer commenting on how he didn't think Cerny sold it well
- So if it was intended for Developers
- The content isn't suited to a wider consumer audience and potentially cause confusion.
I'm pretty sure that Marketing is more targetted than just broadcasting everything to everyone. You tailor the information to the people you are trying to reach.
I guess the other side of this coin is that it wasn't really intended for developers at all..
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