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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
- Thread starter vestan
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Urgh, no.
On SSD, I'm sure no game is gonna replace the whole RAM's content every two seconds. They don't even use everything that stays in RAM. It will improve thigns at load time, sure, but not at run time.
Yep...which it wasn't. There are a number of things different between those test results and the final products, and those were the things I was speaking to.
I never said it was completely wrong.
Sony X1000M3 NC headphones software already does this. You take a picture of your ear in the app and then it analyzes it.
I have a PSVR and wear (wired) headphones, I truly cannot say that I'm that impressed by it. In fact it's nearly indistinguishable from regular stereo audio (to me).
User Banned (1 Day): Hostility toward another user.
It doesn't matter if I was lying. Most of those who were active in the old thread don't even give a fuck about Klee now.
Did Klee also promised you a more powerful PS5 Pro? I'm genuinely curious : )
Klee also said he had a document that proved his info was legit. Which is actually the only thing that was suspect from Klee, imo. That one was obviously a lie unless someone totally fucked him for no reason.
I think what happened with Klee is he had a source telling him PS5 was more powerful. The industry insiders all thought this as well because of dev kits? Tom Warren later pointed out the MS was keeping those numbers hidden to surprise Sony. Turns out, it worked. Klee goes back to source and they tell him "uh oh, they surprised us, too". Klee over reaches and claims to have documents because people are unjustly attacking him about his sources. Xbox Series X is revealed at Game Awards with the TF number. Klee realizes it isn't going to be a great ride for him going forward because of the document claim and the doubling down on Sony being more powerful. Requests a self ban because he is being unjustly attacked and will soon be found out to be incorrect.
Look, insiders get things wrong. This gen was almost the exact inverse of last. All the insiders were saying Xbox One was more powerful in 2012. Sony surprised all the insiders and many insider forum accounts were tanked because of what was probably valid info at the time about the RAM. The RAM switch made them all inaccurate just as the XSX devkits being switched out in December-ish made the insider info inaccurate. When Tom said MS was trying to surprise Sony, it turned out they actually did. That's why the Github is correct except upclocked. Sony was caught off guard and was trying to push those numbers up.
That's my take.
Oh yeah. That audio thing reminds me of the tricks we often hear about that used to be done on old PS systems.
Yeah.
Guess you can say people expected more TF since 1.1 extra TF not enough or CU count.
Sony literally would have been better with a press release, interviews and articles about specs than this!
Yeah I guess so, I wanted a beefy PS5 as well, but it seems they genuinely have different design philosophies here so I think it's best to wait and see the games.
Nothing! It was people tirelessly misinterpreting your words! Next time this happens, do clarify, mmkay?
What? This wasn't marketing to consumers, it was a dive into the ps5 specs mainly aimed at devs and people who are interested in this sorta thing.
It's like this during every next-gen build up it seems, people really want sony to fail and go all out with their hyperbole.
Whilst I agree with your disappointment with BC, your other points are worth exploring in more detail before getting worried
- Variable clocks is not a bad thing. Most games aiming for a locked framerate do so by having some horsepower spare
- Sony's big messages were around the SSD and 3D Audio, and to true to offset the numbers war against the XBX. VRS doesn't do anything add improve those messages
- Noone saw hardware RT coming from NVidia couple of years back, but now it's becoming a standard and is probably essential for next-gen games to look sufficiently better than current gen titles to get people excited. Imagine if Sony just came out and said "No RT". They'd be slated. And the XBX's RT capabilities were backed up by a number, 380billion intersections a second. Unless Sony have a number bigger than that, why publicize it?
- We don't know what compression system the XBX is using, so it's possible that Kraken offers a compression advantage that offsets the XBX's raw size gain. The reality is that on paper, neither SSD size looks great if you're used to having 10s of current gen games all installed on your HD at the same time. Let's assess this again when we know what next gen install sizes are like.
But it wasn't confirmation of anything. No one. Not a single person said anything about a 2.23Ghz GPU clock. Even after sony has said it a lot don't even believe its possible lol.
You said they were within 15% of each other and it's ~16%. Shame on you. Fraud.
Sony clearly has a very impressive custom SSD that has greater max speed ratings per the specs to be sure, but I wouldn't count on there being major real world differences in games when you consider that the storage solution was a huge focus for Xbox (calling it the "soul" of their system) per all of the below details from the Xbox Series X full specs reveal regarding their 'Velocity Architecture' that they plan to bring to PC also.
Eh. I told you all the difference in power between the two, that was the most I was comfortable doing.
The environment in the speculation thread was hardly welcoming.
I don't see how this is what you got from the video? Thought he admitted and explained pretty well why that happened last time and what they were going to do so that won't happen this time.
This.
The GPU is faster and the SSD is incredibly faster, and the custom I/O sounds like an important deal too.
Devs keep bringing up the performance this speed is going to provide.
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It´s plan sillines to show this as the first official piece of information from Sony about the PS5, when you are going to promote it everywhere (has it has to be done). The absolute majority of people didn´t know jack shit about what Mark was talkin bout.
Why don´t just show a teaser to present it as Microsoft did?
RAM is still multitudes faster than storage, no doubt about that. but (theoretically) being able to load data twice as fast as your main competitor in your RAM during gameplay is quite a feat; but it will be up to the developers to make the most of out that.
TBH, it doesn't really look like a dev-centric presentation. It was a high level overview of 3 areas of hardware and didn't have any info that Devs would use to produce a game. If MS didn't drop the XB's specs last week then I could easily imagine Sony holding this info back.
Yeah, with mention of processing convolution, maybe it's something you could task with neural network processing. Apparently there's a PS4 CPU worth of power in there to tap, so will be interesting to see what creative devs might do with it, if they don't want to spend it on audio.
You're being really unpleasant, and I'm not sure why. It definitely matters if you lie, btw.
On topic, because I'm getting sick of trading snipes with someone who admits to arguing in bad faith: I'm a bit disappointed and definitely surprised Sony went with a 36CU chip. Honestly, my biggest concern is the longevity of the GPU. If they can get that sorted, the raw power difference doesn't seem that massive, and a higher clock should legitimately give some benefits over MS's wide and slow approach.
I do hope we don't have to wait another 6 moths for them to start showing games and features. Sony definitely messed up this reveal a bit, and it's hard not to blame all of the turmoil in management.
Yep you did say around 15% give or take depending on things months ago .
Going to be interesting to see what devs to with certain aspects of both systems.
for the people who think it will be cheaper for expandable storage on PS5 will be better then Series X, also seagate is only the launch provider for the Memory card for Series X it could get cheaper and better priced later
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Ysujy 🌃'Darkmode'🌌 on Twitter
“@YBornly @Salt1estGaming A NVMe PCI-e gen 4 ssd currently costs ~200$ for 1 terabyte. Cerny said that those drives are too slow. Expect compatibility drives to be more expensive. Nand flash is expected to go 40% up in price. Not looking good for expandable storage.”
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A lot are overreacting. Maybe we ought to look at what truly constitutes "performance," outside of just simple GPU TFLOP and CPU clock comparisons. The world is still digesting what Cerny walked us trough and the implications of the GPU being frequency-driven and twice the SSD bandwidth with custom IO could in fact, close the gap far more than we know. Fact is, we don't know. Going by numbers alone, there's no doubt Xbox is bringing a beefy console to launch, but it's not all doom for Sony's machine.
I think that's a fair stance. Today was bad, but not on the level of the PS3 or Xbox One. We shall see.
This is totally true.. this is exactly what it was designed to be.
Where sony fucked up is that this is the first major introduction to thePS5. Lie over40k ppl were watching that live stream. And this is what they did?
No talk of games, not even a montage reel lol. No controller, no OS features...nothing.
Naaa.. I am sony die-hard, but even I can say it. Sony fucked up here. I love what they did with the console and what they have on offer, but I fee they could have packaged this all so much much much better.
Honestly, you were so vague you never really said anything. That's not a really criticism, so I agree you weren't really wrong about anything.
I literally told you the exact TFLOP difference, among other things.
70k likes is brutal.
the PR strategy is poor, but the console design is even worse. worse cpu, gpu, ram bandwidth, ram bus, smaller ssd, and an insane infatuation with ssd over raw graphics horsepower required to run games in RT. there is no way this thing hits $399. that bloomberg article is looking pretty prophetic right now. Cerny decided to save 40mm2 on the apu only to spend all those savings on the ssd which is now super expensive. same goes for lower bandwidth gddr6. he thought he would save money there but now the costs are just as high. should've gone with hbm lol.
dont know if you remember, but we used to dismiss the github leaks by pointing out that sony would have to royally screw up in order to design a console this wide and narrow with specs like that because it simply wouldnt be cheaper and offer much worse performance. well, i guess they actually went ahead and did that.
I hope that with the (overwhelming) negative response the PS5 deep tech dive received, Sony feels forced to do something to appease the angry mobs (puts down pitchfork)... showing some next gen 1st party goodness could do the trick... :P
Yo. Real talk. My boy Cerny was done dirty by the new Sony PR team.
Like those dudes that fired Layden, you know?
Anyways I'm upset because it sony is around 2 months begin MS on the messaging of their next gen system. I mean this video would have made sense at the January event and then March, the console reveal. June would be price and games or something.
People are mentioning that PS4 is still on fire. Got Part2 and Ninja game. Alright but the PS5 doesn't really pose a threat to those sales because Dumbass Sony could have pushed the message that these 2 amazing games will be BC ready and have some PS5 enhancements. Like that would deter a Sony fan from waiting to buy it.
If they are worried on their PS4 sales...sony. just stop it to 200 bucks my dudes and you'll keep selling them. Damn.
Anyways I need to see the console and game teasers NOW.
Screw Part2 and Ninja. I'm buying that shit. But I still want new shit. Show it to me now. I want to see what your machine can generate with these weird specs. Ok we know the XSX is a best. So show me what your team can do with ps5. Give me a teaser.
Like those dudes that fired Layden, you know?
Anyways I'm upset because it sony is around 2 months begin MS on the messaging of their next gen system. I mean this video would have made sense at the January event and then March, the console reveal. June would be price and games or something.
People are mentioning that PS4 is still on fire. Got Part2 and Ninja game. Alright but the PS5 doesn't really pose a threat to those sales because Dumbass Sony could have pushed the message that these 2 amazing games will be BC ready and have some PS5 enhancements. Like that would deter a Sony fan from waiting to buy it.
If they are worried on their PS4 sales...sony. just stop it to 200 bucks my dudes and you'll keep selling them. Damn.
Anyways I need to see the console and game teasers NOW.
Screw Part2 and Ninja. I'm buying that shit. But I still want new shit. Show it to me now. I want to see what your machine can generate with these weird specs. Ok we know the XSX is a best. So show me what your team can do with ps5. Give me a teaser.
It was absolutely confirmation of CUs and the BC tests/implementation. Those things were talked about today. Those things could not have changed, as soooo many people said they could. Those things are accurate. A lot of the debate circled around those very specific pieces. That was essentially the Github argument in its entirety. Not that the clocks were absolute and final. The literal only thing that you could consider inaccurate about Github was that the test was ran at a lower clock.
I'm sure all that will be coming in future presentations. The console's not out until the end of the year, possibly even early next year depending on current events.
There's this fever pitch for sony to blow their load like MS have but they obviously don't think they need to. Whether it works out for them only time will tell.
Not the whole RAM, but a big portion of it. Many games that don't use world streaming still stream other assets, usually textures and audio, on the fly. Now imagine adding animations and mesh LOD levels into the mix.
And whilst you're right that devs don't use everything in RAM at the moment, you're actually digging into why Sony's approach to I/O is a game changer. Less memory is now being used to hold data that might be needed quickly, resulting in more memory can be put towards information that is needed now, i.e higher resolution textures, more complicated shaders, more detailed models, more audio sources, larger amounts of dynamic objects active at once, etc.
Nonsense.
This was tweeted out on the playstation twitter, on the playstation YouTube. Did you see how many people were watching it???
You DO NOT reveal your console like this. I have absolutely no idea who thought this was a good idea.
I literally could not have designed a worse way to unveil the PS5 if I tried. You could sit me down and say "what is the worst way to reveal the PS5 to the world" and I would probably say "do another wired article". And that WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.
I think the PS5 looks like a fine machine, and while inferior on GPU and RAM bandwidth to XSX it is competitive. This was not how Sony should have unveiled it.
A consumer focused video like the ones MS has produced is how it should have been done.
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