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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny

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Brees2Thomas

Brees2Thomas

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Dec 27, 2019
1,525
PJV3 said:
Laugh, i'm happy with the PS5 so far, i'm not sure what needs to be dealt with.
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I'm happy too. Just want the two machines to be close performance-wise.
Sekiro said:
Anyone else kinda agree that Sony should've had a PS Meeting 2020 reveal in say February and save all the tech talk today during GDC week?I mean no one would be complaining about the teraflops if we saw some next gen gameplay prior.
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Here's what I think happened. The games are not ready to be shown in any way. They had this 52-minute presentation ready to go since GDC was cancelled and so they decided to release it to give us something. That's it.
 
-Le Monde-

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
SlipperyFishes said:
I mean, the BC section had an unusually large gap beneath PS3. Enough for another two or three logos easily:
Screen_Shot_2020_03_18_at_12.43.22_PM.0.png
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Can we cram PS3/2/1 in there? 😛
Maple said:
70k dislikes...
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Serious business. 😋
 
Plum

Plum

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May 31, 2018
17,278
Ivanovic said:
You're implying that the disastrous press conference and therefore marketing was a major factor in their failure. I'm saying even though it did matter, it was insignificant.
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So you're saying it didn't matter? Because all I've been trying to say is that it did matter to some degree and you've just been coming at me with "no, it was actually insignificant," as if the field of marketing is just a rounding error when it comes to product performance compared to the glory of the hardware, software and financial teams.
 
Ivanovic

Ivanovic

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Oct 28, 2017
1,362
Plum said:
So you're saying it didn't matter? Because all I've been trying to say is that it did matter to some degree and you've just been coming at me with "no, it was actually insignificant," as if the field of marketing is just a rounding error when it comes to product performance compared to the glory of the hardware, software and financial teams.
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Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that
 
RivalGT

RivalGT

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Dec 13, 2017
6,393
Leveean said:
I see lots of misunderstanding about BC. Its not just the top 100 PS4 games, most of the library is supported and without any repackaging or effort from developers or Sony. The top 100 were mentioned to assure you that your favorite games probably work.

I would bet 70 percent or more of the PS4 library is supported.
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The PS blog says something else, they say top 100 for right now, and more games will continue to get tested. What I understood from Cerney was something different, so its a little confusing for me as well.
 
FireCloud

FireCloud

Member
Dec 26, 2017
1,251
Smokey said:
No one will remember? Ok. First impressions are everything. If I was MS I'd be doing the exact same thing Sony did to them with used games and all of the trolling that the internet ate up.
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Last impressions are too. Sony's support for their systems late in their life cycles has been superior to the anemic response MS had with the 360 and now transitioning to XSX. MS seems to want to push all of their development to the next-gen system far too early.
 
Dan Thunder

Dan Thunder

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Nov 2, 2017
14,020
Smokey said:
If I was MS I'd be doing the exact same thing Sony did to them with used games and all of the trolling that the internet ate up.
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Beyond stating teraflops what can ms do though? Sony revealed very little beyond a spec list that doesn't tell you how the console as a piece of unified hardware runs. I don't think there's much to really troll is there?
 
KOHIPEET

KOHIPEET

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Oct 29, 2017
1,416
Dan Thunder said:
GDC was cancelled, how else were they going to get this information out to the development community unless through something like YouTube?
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I'm pretty sure they could have come up with a better format. You want to make it entertaining for the public? No problem. Make it more exciting, more visual. You don't want to spoil game stuff? Don't make it public and reach out to devs via an article + links where they can request documentation. It's that simple.
 
androvsky

androvsky

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Oct 27, 2017
3,502
SlipperyFishes said:
I mean, the BC section had an unusually large gap beneath PS3. Enough for another two or three logos easily:
Screen_Shot_2020_03_18_at_12.43.22_PM.0.png
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Back in the older speculation threads, I'd sometimes joke that Sony was going to put a Cell 2 in the PS5 and use it for ray tracing but not PS3 BC. The way Cerny was talking about the 3D audio processors that's almost exactly where we are now.

Of course, we're talking about the company that co-developed the CD format also being the one that made the only blu-ray drive that can't read CDs despite the fact it has a CD frequency laser in it, then put it in the PS4.
 
Smokey

Smokey

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Oct 25, 2017
4,175
Dan Thunder said:
Beyond stating teraflops what can ms do though? Sony revealed very little beyond a spec list that doesn't tell you how the console as a piece of unified hardware runs. I don't think there's much to really troll is there?
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Their anemic BC solution is a clear area they could go after. I know people who spent hundreds, if not thousands, on an all digital PSN library. They assumed they'd be able to take that with them to PS5. Comments last year in the Wired article mentioning PS4 BC was even more assurance. Now it's the "Top Games". There's nothing as egregious as MS and their Xbox One unveil, but I think they could definitely go on the offensive if they wanted to.
 
Sekiro

Sekiro

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Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
If PS5 sells for $399 then lets be reals guys, it'll sell the same units year-per-year as the PS4, maybe even more depending on how long MS keeps the XSX at a higher price because unlike simply removing the kinect for the one it'll take a while to lower the XSX price to $399.

And no the lockhart wont hinder that, you all saw how a 10TF PS5 got ridiculed imagine a 4TF Xbox.

100 million PS5s sold by January 2026, mark it.
 
Shambala

Shambala

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,537
Still day one pre order. Weaker, stronger, slower or faster doesn't matter to me 🤷‍♂️. But I'm still also getting the XSX down the line sometime 💪
 
pixelation

pixelation

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Oct 26, 2017
3,548
Until Sony (and MS) both reveal their first 1st party studios we won't be able to gauge if the spec differential between the two will truly be noticeable and how, it will be a long wait.
 
Leveean

Leveean

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Nov 9, 2017
1,085
RivalGT said:
The PS blog says something else, they say top 100 for right now, and more games will continue to get tested. What I understood from Cerney was something different, so its a little confusing for me as well.
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I dont see a difference between what they said. The top 100 games were just tested as a sample and were prioritized to get working.
 
Pryme

Pryme

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Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Sekiro said:
If PS5 sells for $399 then lets be reals guys, it'll sell the same units year-per-year as the PS4, maybe even more depending on how long MS keeps the XSX at a higher price because unlike simply removing the kinect for the one it'll take a while to lower the XSX price to $399.

And no the lockhart wont hinder that, you all saw how a 10TF PS5 got ridiculed imagine a 4TF Xbox.

100 million PS5s sold by January 2026, mark it.
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You're probably in for a massive shock if

1. You expect PS5 to be $399
2. You expect the price Delta between the PS5 and the Series X to be more than $50.
 
Doctor Avatar

Doctor Avatar

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Jan 10, 2019
2,594
Sekiro said:
Anyone else kinda agree that Sony should've had a PS Meeting 2020 reveal in say February and save all the tech talk today during GDC week?

I mean no one would be complaining about the teraflops if we saw some next gen gameplay prior.
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If Sony had announced first then they wouldn't be in this PR nightmare.

PS5 is a good machine. Especially if it can come in under the XSX price point (say $449 vs $499).

The problem is that by MS announcing first they set the "baseline" as 12TF. So by announcing afterwards Sony look like they are failing to meet the baseline.

I said this before the reveal, I had assumed that Sony had better specs because revealing like this they are just asking for people to be disappointed.

Whoever decided this was the way to announce PS5 - with a dry technical deep dive, after a competitor has announced better specs - needs to be fired. It's a PR disaster.

If you have the weaker machine you have to let the games do the talking. Because the specs aren't going to convince anyone to get your box over a better competitors, especially when neither have mentioned price. You also want to announce first so it looks like the competitor is offer a "bit extra" rather than you failing to meet the baseline.

Having said that this is better than the 9.2TF nightmare scenario. 10.3 and 12.1 are within spitting distance of each other (no matter what the jubilant Xbox console warriors would have you believe) so the differences between third party games will be very minor.

Remember that PS5 has 17% worse shader performance than XSX (and 20% better rasterisation performance as Cerny alluded to). This compares to a 50% worse performance for PS4Pro compared to XSX and a similar kind of delta between Xbox One and PS4. Indeed those comparisons also had much bigger deltas with RAM bandwidth too.

So basically the difference will be less than anything we've had this gen, far far less. If you were happy with PS4Pro vs Xbox One X then you have nothing to worry about because the difference will be even less this generation.
 
Betty

Betty

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Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Sekiro said:
If PS5 sells for $399 then lets be reals guys, it'll sell the same units year-per-year as the PS4, maybe even more depending on how long MS keeps the XSX at a higher price because unlike simply removing the kinect for the one it'll take a while to lower the XSX price to $399.

And no the lockhart wont hinder that, you all saw how a 10TF PS5 got ridiculed imagine a 4TF Xbox.

100 million PS5s sold by January 2026, mark it.
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It'll probably be $499, and MS will probably match it with Series X even with Lockhart on the scene.

Sounds crazy but they've done literally everything completely right so far and know that price is super important.
 

KCroxtonJr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,492
I'm confused, I could have sworn that the new RDNA2 architecture makes teraflops counts mean much less due to increased efficiency or something? Am I remembering wrong?

At work so haven't watched the video yet but all these tf comments has me wondering
 
Fizie

Fizie

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Jan 21, 2018
2,850
FireCloud said:
Last impressions are too. Sony's support for their systems late in their life cycles has been superior to the anemic response MS had with the 360 and now transitioning to XSX. MS seems to want to push all of their development to the next-gen system far too early.
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Huh? MS have been lambasted the last few months over their planned continued support of the XOne family as it will apparently hold back next gen games.
 
Sekiro

Sekiro

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Jan 25, 2019
2,938
United Kingdom
Pryme said:
You're probably in for a massive shock if

1. You expect PS5 to be $399
2. You expect the price Delta between the PS5 and the Series X to be more than $50.
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I'd be shocked to high hell if Sony goes for an extra $100 because of the SSD, what we saw this morning was a console maxed out to the best of its abilities for a $399 price point, if $499 was the goal beefier specs would've been included.
 
Windows-PC

Windows-PC

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Oct 28, 2017
434
Sony should've showcased a few games or tech demos so that people realize that a 10.3 TF's console is also able to archive stunning visuals and great frame rates.
 
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