It's sad because while PS5 is at minimum a solid console from a tech perspective, fake insiders were Sony's biggest enemy after all, creating narratives the system simply couldn't reach.
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PlayStation 5 System Architecture Deep Dive |OT| Secret Agent Cerny
- Thread starter vestan
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No mention of anything aside from PS4, and even with PS4, it's apparently "100 top PS4 games" whatever that means. Maybe more to come? I dunno.
It's a massive letdown imo.
I lost my avatar bet with Colbert re: CU count, but honestly a 10.3 and 12.1 line up is very close.
Far less than the difference between PS4Pro and XOX.
XSX has 17% more shader performance than PS5, but also note that PS5 has 2x the SSD speed of XSX. It will also beat XSX on a few GPU related tasks like ROP performance potentially with higher frequency. RAM wise I'm not really sure who wins here, XSX has 10GB that is faster than PS5 but 6GB that is slower and a slower SSD.
Basically I think most predictions of these consoles being pretty close were spot on. I said at the end of the last thread 10-12TF I would be happy with PS5, at least we escaped the 9.2 nightmare.
I think consumers win with close consoles.
Far less than the difference between PS4Pro and XOX.
XSX has 17% more shader performance than PS5, but also note that PS5 has 2x the SSD speed of XSX. It will also beat XSX on a few GPU related tasks like ROP performance potentially with higher frequency. RAM wise I'm not really sure who wins here, XSX has 10GB that is faster than PS5 but 6GB that is slower and a slower SSD.
Basically I think most predictions of these consoles being pretty close were spot on. I said at the end of the last thread 10-12TF I would be happy with PS5, at least we escaped the 9.2 nightmare.
I think consumers win with close consoles.
Gaps from what was explicitly talked about
- VRS yes/no
- mesh shaders yes/no
- is the CPU hyperthreaded or not? Even checked the wired articles and they don't mention 16 threads
- how much cpu is used by the OS?
- how much ram is used by the OS (and does it have some 'helper' ram like pro)
- VRS yes/no
- mesh shaders yes/no
- is the CPU hyperthreaded or not? Even checked the wired articles and they don't mention 16 threads
- how much cpu is used by the OS?
- how much ram is used by the OS (and does it have some 'helper' ram like pro)
In terms of graphical power, more than twice the power. But the CPU and SSD are in another league to what the Pro and X are doing.
If you can't make your point without insulting people then maybe your point ain't a good one.
_rogame on Twitter
“One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination”
twitter.com
That was an awesome presentation about their design decisions and really cool tech to decrease bottlenecks. I'm really excited to see what the developers can do with this thing.
It was disheartening and frustrating to see so many ignorant responses here. It's getting to be a little much.
It was disheartening and frustrating to see so many ignorant responses here. It's getting to be a little much.
yeah especially those who play with tv speakers... they will get amazing 3d audio.. riiiight? because that will be the majority of players...
It's closer than most people think, considering the architectural advantages with 5GB/s NVME. But Microsoft is seemingly edging out Sony on most facets of technology here -- both software and hardware. Microsoft's investments in its gaming division and into things like software and BC are paying off in spades now that they're ready for next-gen. Both will be amazing consoles, but I think Sony is sweating a bit.
Comparing apples to screwdrivers with that one. Xbox One was a disaster of marketing. Playstation has always been about games and will continue to have games.
Yeah, i don't see the connection, these are two game focused machines.
So let's talk pictures. Any devs in here?
Say we have a next gen Assassins Creed. What could be the difference in graphics between PS5 and Series X?
For example, is it possible X runs native 4K and PS5 is stuck at 1800p or 1440p with said 10.3TF? Or is the difference to small for that? And in that case, what can we expect of the higher memory and SSD speed of the PS5? A game running at a lower resolution, but with bigger draw distances and better LOD?
Say we have a next gen Assassins Creed. What could be the difference in graphics between PS5 and Series X?
For example, is it possible X runs native 4K and PS5 is stuck at 1800p or 1440p with said 10.3TF? Or is the difference to small for that? And in that case, what can we expect of the higher memory and SSD speed of the PS5? A game running at a lower resolution, but with bigger draw distances and better LOD?
lollerskates is all I have. And yes, they could have done a boatload of different things to make it obvious this was a developer focused event, regardless of where they announced it. Guess what? They didn't.
Just outside the polygraph room.
Those units are subject to the same core clock speeds, so the theoretical numbers match the TF gap, percentage wise._rogame on Twitter
“One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination”
Ok just found explanation on Eurogamer. So it's tied to Shader unit in cu. So in theory PS5 will have worse RT than Xbox sx
damn that wasn't clear to me at all. Or maybe I'm just dumb :-/
It's a shame. The PS5 is a really solid machine with a lot of interesting hardware ideas in it.
CPU
- x86-64-AMD Ryzen™ "Zen 2"
- 8 Cores / 16 Threads
- Variable frequency, up to 3.5 GHz
Yeah you are right, with tv speakers you won't really get a good 3d audio experience, but with stereo headphones you are set.
_rogame on Twitter
“One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination”
44% fewer intersection engines, but running >20% faster.
The CU performance is related to count and frequency.
Unless RT operates differently on the CUs then any RT differential will be identical to the TF differential.
Unlike ROPs etc which are not tied to CUs.
Play Station has delivered the Power now all it needs are the amazing games
What higher memory
wow._rogame on Twitter
“One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination”
It was always protrayed as a GDC talk, that is a developer talk anyone thinking otherwise is being stupid.
'you know how in arkham knight when you're having the flashbacks in the tower and when you turn around in the room suddenly the joker is staring you right in the face and you shit your pants? On PS4 that model would have to be in memory already. With ps5 (and xsx) you could load that just at the last moment as you start to turn around. That means you can spend more of your ram on what you can see in front of you, exams eyou can load new things in so quickly
I will wait for proper tech demo reveal._rogame on Twitter
“One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination”
Its def. going to be an interesting gen. Imo, XbX will have a higer avrg frame rate in multiplats (if that matters in the age of VRR, I don't know) with higher resolutions across the board, while Sony's 1st party games might incorporate gamedesign thats not possible on xbx (when using the SSDs full potential). Maybe game worlds can be more detailed if you can stream them with 9Gb/sec in mind, then having 12TF of computing power at hand (I have no idea how any of this works).
Would also be interesting to know, since CPU's have been the bottleneck of this gen's hardware, if 7 cores at higher clocks outperform 8 cores at lower clocks.
If MS gave the XBX a Windows OS install option (like PS3's Linux) I would buy them booth day1.
Regarding storage, I rarley play more then two games over a period of time, so I don't really care. Managed with the 500GB on OG PS4, will manage this.
Here's my point:
This video was explicitly pushed as a tech deep dive into system architecture. If Ford sent out a tweet about breaking down the engineering behind their new V6 engine...I wouldn't go in expecting them to reveal a new car. I'd go in expecting to learn about a new engine.
Plus people are ignoring so many other factors here, and instead want their console wars fire stoked & fueled. Microsoft and Sony are in two entirely different positions, so of course their console reveal strategies are miles apart. In 3 months no one will remember or care about these threads, expect for people who very strongly want you to understand that their console of choice is the BEST console of choice.
Pretty much
That's why I never take any insiders words as fact and run away with it.
Regardless, Am getting both day one. We are in for a treat.
Great read.This article from Richard Leadbetter has an excellent breakdown of the PS5 GPU strategy.
Inside PlayStation 5: the specs and the tech that deliver Sony's next-gen vision
Sony has broken its silence. PlayStation 5 specifications are now out in the open with system architect Mark Cerny deli…www.eurogamer.net
I can't wait for head to head comparisons. Should be fun. 😁
BC especially, that was the actual disappointment for me in the announcement.
Well it's not hard to explain.
You remember all the ''loadings'' this gen? How the PS4 and XBO's UI are relatively slow to respond? How some games can have textures popping up late? A long wait between starting a game and reaching the actual title screen? Consider those issues mostly gone or reduced by a massive margin.
The power difference between the two machines is not that big for that to be the case. If the Series X is able to run something at 4K 60fps, the PS5 should pull off the same, maybe with some framerate drops here and there.
And if it's cheaper than Series X and 3rd parties look near identical then all will be well.
But if 3rd party titles have the differences that RDR2 had on X vs Pro or Series X is close or on par with PS5, then it'll look like Sony were caught off guard.
I'm sure once we see the console and games the hype will return and fears dissipate.
This is what boggles my mind. They announced HW RT and if I am not mistaken you need more CU's to benefit from such a task. Unless there is some custom RT they are doing, it seems they should not have promoted it.
They will have RT as much as an 2060 RTX is a RT graphics card.
Lol what the fuck was that?
We all knew it would be technical and the talk was originally intended for developers at GDC but since that got cancelled and they decided to make their talk public they should have either adapted the method of presentation for a more public friendly showing or not shown that as an initial sort of deep dive into the PS5. Maybe they could have just sent that to specific trusted developers only. I felt like I was at an old uni lecture with a horrendous professor - we know he isn't but that's not the point.
They also mentioned how this deep dive was a look into the future of gaming - and I already said from the wording of that tweet that I assumed the ps5 would be the weaker box but that didn't feel like anything relatable with games - no examples shown, just shitty PowerPoint esq slides and him literally talking forever.
The GitHub leak was correct in the end though it shows that testing continued on the ps5 if I had to guess to hit a better TF performance in relation to the 12 that Microsoft have. The specs to be fair aren't too bad but it is the weaker console on paper - I guess I'll be buying my first ever Xbox just on the appreciation of the effort they put into their console with less bottlenecks it seems. It will be my place for third party games.
I'll still get a ps5 just because historically I've loved the ecosystem and what the brand stood for but for now the ps5 seems like their most market oriented product as opposed to a product orientated product they have ever made having had all the consoles from ps1 to 4pro even though only a select few of the first party games interest me even as a lover of solely single player experiences. Just can't believe I'm buying an Xbox.
They spent so long talking about 3D audio too - I think they're deluded if they think more people will care about than Flops even though it's a neat feature.
Seems like a solid product with what he says will have a very cool cooling system and cool SSD to compensate for the heat it will produce to reach a variable 10.3 TF lol...meh
A terrible presentation for the public irrespective of the arguments that "it was meant for developers not the general public wah wah wah" - I can't help but feel they wouldn't have made this vid public if not for the outcry over their silence and how clear and positive Microsoft have been for the first time in regards to a game machine and gamers ever - they're almost learning from the Sony I know.
In regards to not turning up at E3 - with a 10.3 TF machines with a top end SSD and top quality games to offer they should have turned up and shown off their qualities still even before the event cancelled - I'm sure they will have a full blown event next which will reveal what the ps5 looks like - or some sort of digital event but the whole way through listening this I couldn't help but think wtf were they thinking of revealing this as some of intro to the ps5 - the DF vids on Xbox felt like a better "deep dive" if made for public viewing.
Oh well - at least it's done now - first time I'll be owning both a Sony and Microsoft consoles.
I still envisage greater worldwide sales without question for Sony not really just based on first party games but the brand overall but I expect Xbox to sell better than last time out with their product this time - why? Simply because it's better gaming machine than they put out last come and it's the strongest product on the market - like how PS4 was when it dropped.
If ps5 sells at 500 - Xbox would be smart to take an initial loss and match its they can - if Sony are able to get their product to 450 or below they will still sell like ice cream in the summer - really want to see what the ps5 looks like - I hope it at least is not ugly.
We all knew it would be technical and the talk was originally intended for developers at GDC but since that got cancelled and they decided to make their talk public they should have either adapted the method of presentation for a more public friendly showing or not shown that as an initial sort of deep dive into the PS5. Maybe they could have just sent that to specific trusted developers only. I felt like I was at an old uni lecture with a horrendous professor - we know he isn't but that's not the point.
They also mentioned how this deep dive was a look into the future of gaming - and I already said from the wording of that tweet that I assumed the ps5 would be the weaker box but that didn't feel like anything relatable with games - no examples shown, just shitty PowerPoint esq slides and him literally talking forever.
The GitHub leak was correct in the end though it shows that testing continued on the ps5 if I had to guess to hit a better TF performance in relation to the 12 that Microsoft have. The specs to be fair aren't too bad but it is the weaker console on paper - I guess I'll be buying my first ever Xbox just on the appreciation of the effort they put into their console with less bottlenecks it seems. It will be my place for third party games.
I'll still get a ps5 just because historically I've loved the ecosystem and what the brand stood for but for now the ps5 seems like their most market oriented product as opposed to a product orientated product they have ever made having had all the consoles from ps1 to 4pro even though only a select few of the first party games interest me even as a lover of solely single player experiences. Just can't believe I'm buying an Xbox.
They spent so long talking about 3D audio too - I think they're deluded if they think more people will care about than Flops even though it's a neat feature.
Seems like a solid product with what he says will have a very cool cooling system and cool SSD to compensate for the heat it will produce to reach a variable 10.3 TF lol...meh
A terrible presentation for the public irrespective of the arguments that "it was meant for developers not the general public wah wah wah" - I can't help but feel they wouldn't have made this vid public if not for the outcry over their silence and how clear and positive Microsoft have been for the first time in regards to a game machine and gamers ever - they're almost learning from the Sony I know.
In regards to not turning up at E3 - with a 10.3 TF machines with a top end SSD and top quality games to offer they should have turned up and shown off their qualities still even before the event cancelled - I'm sure they will have a full blown event next which will reveal what the ps5 looks like - or some sort of digital event but the whole way through listening this I couldn't help but think wtf were they thinking of revealing this as some of intro to the ps5 - the DF vids on Xbox felt like a better "deep dive" if made for public viewing.
Oh well - at least it's done now - first time I'll be owning both a Sony and Microsoft consoles.
I still envisage greater worldwide sales without question for Sony not really just based on first party games but the brand overall but I expect Xbox to sell better than last time out with their product this time - why? Simply because it's better gaming machine than they put out last come and it's the strongest product on the market - like how PS4 was when it dropped.
If ps5 sells at 500 - Xbox would be smart to take an initial loss and match its they can - if Sony are able to get their product to 450 or below they will still sell like ice cream in the summer - really want to see what the ps5 looks like - I hope it at least is not ugly.
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Seems the systems are closer in spec than ever. PS5 SSD is nuts, but perhaps betting on the wrong horse. 2,5 GB/s is already an enormous leap from the slow as shit HDD's in current systems. I feel like the CPU and GPU performance uplift of Xbox is going to make a bigger difference in more games, especially since multi-plats have to be designed around the lowest common denominator anyway. Which, could end up being much slower SATA SSD's in PCs for some time. Tempest seems exciting, but years away from being finished. I'm also disappointed with the seemingly poor BC implementation from Sony.
Very interested in seeing what games Playstation studios will put out though. That'll be what decides if I'm an early adopter or not.
Very interested in seeing what games Playstation studios will put out though. That'll be what decides if I'm an early adopter or not.
Will there ps5 vr exclusive games?
As in games that will only be playable with the current vr + ps5?
As in games that will only be playable with the current vr + ps5?
I'm trading my one x for xsx, might not be able to do that with the PS4. Hope they clear that out soon. 😭
Surely it's the same as any other task in performance? Hardwarexfrequency?
So it will have the same RT differential as TF differential.
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