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JonesXlv

Member
Jun 7, 2018
142
Why do people believe the PS5 SSD would throttle its SSD but the XSX wouldn't?

This has been discussed and covered by MS. They guarantee the speeds as minimums (2.4 and 4.8GB/s). They could likely have pushed speeds a bit, but it seems like they have taken the "locked" approach to their console regarding clock speeds and SSD throughput. This goes for the expandable SSD solution too.

www.eurogamer.net

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
 

Saberus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
583
Vancouver, BC
PS5's - load 2GB (70% is wasted data) 4K Texels into its 16GB 256bit memory @ 5.5GB/s.
Most of that 2GB, up to 70% i.e.1.4GB, is wasted and thrown away

XSX - load only the useful bits 600MB(30% of 2GB) of 4K textures into its 16GB 320bit memory @ 2.6GB/s

BCPack + SFS ....

Welp, Sony better hire you quick, obviously they don't know how to build hardware.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
Sony is going on their own schedule so I bet they wait until they've got games ready to show before doing a full blowout with the box/price etc. All of that being delayed by Covid-19 is unavoidable at this point. Hopefully not too long now, dying to see what they can do with so much more cpu/gpu/io compared to current gen, it's going to be nuts.
We can agree on that, next gen will be amazing compared to now.
 

Hey Please

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
22,824
Not America
Why do people believe the PS5 SSD would throttle its SSD but the XSX wouldn't?

Should we take it as a compliment that there is a number of things sony has said that people doubt because they don't think "it's possible"?

After the numerous times people cast aspersion on Sony's claim to have HW support for RT, is this really surprising?

Clearly Cerny has failed to meet the platinum standards set in this ResetERA thread:

If Cerny says X = 0, because he never addressed any other letter, it could be that A through Z, sans X, could also be 0. Furthermore given Cerny never said that X =/= 2-2 or 1-1 or -4 - (-4) or etc, all of those conditions could be correct.
 

Joo

Member
May 25, 2018
3,865
PS5's - load 2GB (70% is wasted data) 4K Texels into its 16GB 256bit memory @ 5.5GB/s.
Most of that 2GB, up to 70% i.e.1.4GB, is wasted and thrown away

XSX - load only the useful bits 600MB(30% of 2GB) of 4K textures into its 16GB 320bit memory @ 2.6GB/s

BCPack + SFS ....

Cerny has met his match. Based on message history this guy really doesn't explain his points too much.
 

Praedyth

Member
Feb 25, 2020
6,519
Brazil
I'm pretty sure Cerny and Sony folks know about the need to cool the SSD to be optimal. Cerny himself talked about 3rd party SSDs having heatsinks and fans, thus being larger than the expansion bay. I do wonder if the cooling will be optimal just for the internal SSD or the second slot too.

Anyway, I think it's pretty funny that almost everything on the PS5 seems to revolve around the cooling. From higher clocks to SSD, it is just funny if you take in account the PS4 jet engine.
 

gothmog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,434
NY
User Warned: Console wars
Xbox Console Warriors have become the Bernie Bros. lately. We get it, it's a good system like pretty much everyone here has been saying over and over. It existing is not going to get us to not buy a PS5. I'm not getting rid of my Switch either, no matter how many TFs the fucking XSX has.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
Considering MS went really low with the bandwidth in order to keep it steady without throttling and Sony is allowing to install a standard drive and Cerny didn't say anything about fixed speed, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear at some point that 5.5GB/s is the PS5's peak speed.

Thanks for the laugh.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
anyone know how the zlib/kraken decompression works in ps5? anyone know of cool articles out their that help explain the numbers?

This guy works on crunch a texture compression library for binomial the company he founded. The number Microsoft gave is with BCPack




At the end...



Same for SFS if they don't have it they can use Virtual texturing probably a little bit less efficient but nowhere inefficient to completely lost the advantage they have with SSD speed. And one last thing for example in Killzone shadow Fall textures is only 30% of the total assets. We have the assets in Spiderman it would be interesting to compare but it is 30 to 40% I think. A game is not composed only of textures...
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
Why do people believe the PS5 SSD would throttle its SSD but the XSX wouldn't?

Should we take it as a compliment that there is a number of things sony has said that people doubt because they don't think "it's possible"?

TBF, there were dozens of posts in the speculation OTs about whether Microsoft's 12TFs were GCN or RDNA. If things aren't made explicit then people will doubt them, which isn't that surprising based on the fact that marketing often works by omitting unflattering information. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be sceptical in the face of things like this.

And yes, I get that Cerny is generally considered to be an honest broker among those who follow Sony, but there's no particular reason to think that people who don't follow Sony should know that, nor that they should take someone else's word that this is the case.

People are sceptical of claims made by company spokespeople. It's probably for the best all things considered.
 

Jaxar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,048
Australia
Look at all the excuses going round ... PS5 this gen is XB1 last gen ... Deal with it.

Deal with what? What is it that I have missed?

The PS5 is looking like a beast of a console which will no doubt be capable of really great things. I mean shit, look at how great games look on a 1.8TF console and imagine what will be possible on a machine with tons more grunt.

The way some here are banging on like the PS5 is this underpowered system and PlayStation fans are in for a disappointing generation... yeah I don't think so!
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
TBF, there were dozens of posts in the speculation OTs about whether Microsoft's 12TFs were GCN or RDNA. If things aren't made explicit then people will doubt them, which isn't that surprising based on the fact that marketing often works by omitting unflattering information. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be sceptical in the face of things like this.

And yes, I get that Cerny is generally considered to be an honest broker among those who follow Sony, but there's no particular reason to think that people who don't follow Sony should know that, nor that they should take someone else's word that this is the case.

People are sceptical of claims made by company spokespeople. It's probably for the best all things considered.

There is no reason to believe he lied. Sony could have said 10.3 Tflops and 3.5 GHz without talking about variable frequency. This was a very honest presentation, I would say maybe too honest from a marketing point of view.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,300
The "Cerny must be lying" thing has roots all the way back to the first Wired article with RT. You had Sony confirm RT at least three times and you still had people coming into the Next-Gen OT implying Cerny and Sony are straight up lying about RT. It is just another avenue to console war.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
TBF, there were dozens of posts in the speculation OTs about whether Microsoft's 12TFs were GCN or RDNA. If things aren't made explicit then people will doubt them, which isn't that surprising based on the fact that marketing often works by omitting unflattering information. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to be sceptical in the face of things like this.

And yes, I get that Cerny is generally considered to be an honest broker among those who follow Sony, but there's no particular reason to think that people who don't follow Sony should know that, nor that they should take someone else's word that this is the case.

People are sceptical of claims made by company spokespeople. It's probably for the best all things considered.

Some of the people in this very thread you know follow Sony\tech stuff .
People can be sceptical of claims but last year he said it was faster than any SSD on PC at the time and he was right .
We had people not believing and now he show it still faster than most PC SSD and now have people saying well that might not be true .
It's like when people say PS5 had not RT after he said twice and AMD had it RDNA2 there limit to being sceptical .
 

lukeskymac

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
992
This has been discussed and covered by MS. They guarantee the speeds as minimums (2.4 and 4.8GB/s). They could likely have pushed speeds a bit, but it seems like they have taken the "locked" approach to their console regarding clock speeds and SSD throughput. This goes for the expandable SSD solution too.

www.eurogamer.net

Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs

This is it. After months of teaser trailers, blog posts and even the occasional leak, we can finally reveal firm, hard …
Can we please not treat SSDs as if they were CPUs? Sony didn't "overclock" the SSD to some unsustainable number or anything. They have a wider chip arrangement, a custom controller, and have taken thermals into account. All of this is mentioned on the video which is the topic of this thread.

This guy works on crunch a texture compression library for binomial the company he founded. The number Microsoft gave is with BCPack

I was going to ask why is this even a question when both Microsoft and Sony have quoted numbers for compressed performance (4.8 and 8-9). Then I saw who was trying to make the dude say "yeah Microsoft's approach is totally better, their SSD is actually the best!" in those tweets...
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
Can we please not treat SSDs as if they were CPUs? Sony didn't "overclock" the SSD to some unsustainable number or anything. They have a wider chip arrangement, a custom controller, and have taken thermals into account. All of this is mentioned on the video which is the topic of this thread.

Not to mention they have a patent which detail a lot of the work done to make it so fast .
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
The "Cerny must be lying" thing has roots all the way back to the first Wired article with RT. You had Sony confirm RT at least three times and you still had people coming into the Next-Gen OT implying Cerny and Sony are straight up lying about RT. It is just another avenue to console war.

They've moved on from no hardware RT to 9.2TF, SSD throttling and Tempest audio is PR bullshit.

I don't understand the console warring. Both consoles are looking excellent from a hardware perspective. It makes no sense to me.
 

JonesXlv

Member
Jun 7, 2018
142
Can we please not treat SSDs as if they were CPUs? Sony didn't "overclock" the SSD to some unsustainable number or anything. They have a wider chip arrangement, a custom controller, and have taken thermals into account. All of this is mentioned on the video which is the topic of this thread.



I was going to ask why is this even a question when both Microsoft and Sony have quoted numbers for compressed performance (4.8 and 8-9). Then I saw who was trying to make the dude say "yeah Microsoft's approach is totally better, their SSD is actually the best!" in those tweets...

Calm down. I wasn't insinuating that Sony "overclocked" the SSD ( a laughable idea to begin with). But, SSDs are traditionally thermally limited,. which I why I mentioned MS built their SSD solution with a guaranteed bandwidth number in mind.
 

lukeskymac

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
992
It's getting really annoying having to debunk people treating some information as uncertain when so many answers are right there. In the video. The Playstation 5 Deep Dive. With Mark Cerny. The one we are supposed to be discussing here.
Calm down. I wasn't insinuating that Sony "overclocked" the SSD ( a laughable idea to begin with). But, SSDs are traditionally thermally limited,. which I why I mentioned MS built their SSD solution with a guaranteed bandwidth number in mind.
But SSDs aren't mobile CPUs with boosts that can only be maintained for a small period of time because the heat output is too great for any notebook cooler to handle. The SSDs with the most performance fade are the ones that have *no heatsink whatsoever*! Why? Because there are use cases where you don't need consistent, sustained read speeds for an extended period of time. Consoles aren't such cases. Microsoft did nothing but the minimum here, and there is no reason to believe Sony won't do the same.
 
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Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
All this talk about SSDs smh. All I want is to ride a Stormbird in Horizon 2 :)

That's what the SSD will enable. We couldn't do that in the first game because the HDD was too slow to stream the data to allow flying mounts in that world.

Open world traversal will see huge upgrades across the board next gen.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
Since next generation console pricing is obviously one of the big things we still need to find out for both, Phil Spencer's words on this in the IGN Unlocked interview with Ryan McCaffrey today were interesting. He feels good about their price and plan, even mentioning the removal of the optical audio as a small example of something that helps to keep the price down too. He mentioned that the CEO Satya Nadella and the CFO Amy Hood are both invested and on board with their pricing plans, and he added that they would still stay agile on pricing relative to the competition too. This didn't really sound to me like they are going above $499, so it will be interesting to see how things shake out for both on pricing.
 

Deleted member 45460

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 27, 2018
1,492
User banned (1 week): Trolling. Abusing the report system.
It's getting really annoying having to debunk people treating some information as uncertain when so many answers are right there. In the video. The Playstation 5 Deep Dive. With Mark Cerny. The one we are supposed to be discussing here.

But SSDs aren't mobile CPUs with boosts that can only be maintained for a small period of time because the heat output is too great for any notebook cooler to handle. The SSDs with the most performance fade are the ones that have *no heatsink whatsoever*! Why? Because there are use cases where you don't need consistent, sustained read speeds for an extended period of time. Consoles aren't such cases. Microsoft did nothing but the minimum here, and there is no reason to believe Sony won't do the same.
Yes I'm mostly just curious as to what their solution is, because an SSD (or two if you add a 2nd) that can run at that speed on PC right now is both very expensive and runs extremely hot. I doubt they'd be going down this road without a good solution already at hand and I'm dying to see it. They made it clear in the presentation that they are "targeting 5 GB/s (at least)" in the slide, which is going to be incredible in a console form factor.
jpg
 

DrKeo

Banned
Mar 3, 2019
2,600
Israel
Again Avatar bet if there is no SSD throttling and the optimized game load as fast as promised you take my avatar after PS5 release for 6 months and I take an avatar of your choice for 6 months if the SSD throttling and optimized game do not load as fast as promised. The problem is not the NAND but often the controller running hot and they know it. The SSD controller linked to the console will be partially replaced by the internal one.

EDIT: And the example he gave in-game of streaming 2 GB of compressed in 0.27s is above the 5.5 GB/s and near 8 GB/s of compressed data.
When you have to use talking points from people like TimDog and MisterXmedia, then you are probably trying too hard.
Why do people believe the PS5 SSD would throttle its SSD but the XSX wouldn't?

Should we take it as a compliment that there is a number of things sony has said that people doubt because they don't think "it's possible"?


Yup... gripping stuff. Definitely another share button moment where we get something we didn't know we needed and then when we do we can't imagine how we did without it. I don't see any of this being impossible on the PS5, and it would ake a world of difference to me.
I don't know. It seems the new narrative is Cerny lied about SSD speed after Cerny lied about raytracing after it is RDNA 1 GPU and so on...

EDIT: And Sony engineers don't understand SSD controller can overheat...
It is complete nonsense to claim that the figures for the Xbox SSD are somehow "sustained" numbers, and that the figures for the PS5 SSD are possibly just "peak" numbers. The SSDs in PCs throttle mostly because of cooling and/or bottlenecks. Cerny said that their goal was to eliminate any I/O bottlenecks, and to deploy a better cooling solution. DrKeo is basically claiming that a) Cerny lied/did not tell the whole story and/or b) that they did not succeed, while Microsoft magically did. Why? Makes no sense to me.
This is straight up FUD.
-XSX's lower bandwidth is in great part due to the wider NAND setup Sony is using in the PS5.
-"a standard drive" is an oversimplification. Cerny explicitly said that 3rd party drives would need to be faster than 5.5GBps to make sure they would meet speed requirements.
-"Cerny didn't say anything about fixed speed" is ridiculous. Not only is the notion of "fixed" SSD speed not really valid in the way clocks are, not only Sony has mentioned CPU/GPU variable clocks - which if they were purely concerned with marketing appearances they wouldn't have - but Microsoft also hasn't mentioned 2.4 GBps is "fixed" even though they did it for CPU/GPU! Edit: I see they list it as "sustained", which is a weird way to say "sequential" - the only adjective that makes sense in this context.

The second point alone disproves this idea. The rest is just icing in the FUD cake.
Dr Keo, I know you're one of the most technically proficient peeps on this forum. I've been following the speculation threads for a good while and I respect the technical expertise you brought with your posts even if I didn't agree with some of your conclusions. But this? Just casually implying that the SSD speed given by Cerny is just another boost clock? Because Cerny didn't specifically state that it's sustained read speeds then it must be another lie? That the official specs given on the Playstation blog is also Cerny spreading misinformation? That they also mislead the Digital Foundry reporters by never mentioning to them during their interview that the PS5 SSD is a sham and that it only reaches the stated speeds some of the time?

First Brad Sams and now you.



Woah there chris. Now I don't think there's any need to threaten anyone with that avatar of yours. That thing should be exorcised before being given to someone else.
I'm used to it, I got swamped like that whenever I said PS5 changed architecture to RDNA 2 in the transition between Ariel and Oberon A0, when ever I said Oberon A0 and E0 are the same and the only difference is things like bugs/clocks/yields, whenever I said PS5 probably has 36 CUs and so on, so this is nothing new. You can look for bias or console wars somewhere else, I'm mostly on Era to talk tech.

What I've said comes from deduction , if you disagree with any of my points, you are welcome to lay out your thoughts but just like in previous threads, I mostly ignore comments like "no way Sony is stupid enough to have only 36 CU" because I don't find them very insightful or interesting. This is the thread to discuss the PS5, I'm not going to discuss the PS5's SSD in the Xbox thread, so let's have a real discussion about it without having some people feel too overprotective or emotional because its' the PS5's most precious advantage.

So, This is my logic, feel free to counter point me if you can be respectful:
1) NVMe drives throttle, that's just what they do. A non-throttling NVMe drive is pretty unique and anyone who has that feature will probably be shouting it off the rooftops. Cerny did not talk about it at all so that's the first reason to doubt it's a sustained bandwidth.
2) MS had to go very low in bandwidth in order to have it be consistent, it's not just the "12 channels vs 8 channels" that makes the difference, MS could have easily had a 4GB/s NVMe using 8 channels but they dialed it down considerably in order to have fixed bandwidth. MS, BTW, are shouting it off the rooftop.
3) CPUs and GPUs have fixed clocks on consoles (or at least a few fixed profiles) so if you have a console that has a frequency that isn't fixed, you will probably talk about it because it's unusual for a console. If you have a storage device that doesn't have a fixed speed you might not, considering it's very rare for a storage device to have a fixed speed. So it takes us back to the first point, if you have fixed bandwidth, you would have shouted it from the rooftops, especially if you talk about it for 15 minutes in a tech oriented lecture. If you aren't talking about a killer feature, I will assume you don't have it.
4) Allowing users to upgrade using standard drives that throttle sounds very hard to cool and avoid throttling.

And one last thing, I don't know for a fact if 5.5GB/s is fixed speed or not, but I really don't mind doing an avatar bet with chris 1515. As I've said before, I think this is the worst avatar ever created, thus, the most amazing avatar ever created. So if I lose, I actually win twice - my launch PS5 will have a faster SSD and I will have the best avatar on Era.
 

褲蓋Calo

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 1, 2020
781
Shenzhen, China
What are you talking about ?
Waste data .
Sampler feedback basically works like this: A "dummy" texture sampling is performed and the locations of sampling are recorded, so that in the second pass where you perform the real sampling, you can avoid performing calculations on / loading the unused area of the texture. Sampler feedback requires hardware support, since both consoles feature RDNA 2, I expect PS5 to implement some form of sampler feedback, too.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
I'm used to it, I got swamped like that whenever I said PS5 changed architecture to RDNA 2 in the transition between Ariel and Oberon A0, when ever I said Oberon A0 and E0 are the same and the only difference is things like bugs/clocks/yields, whenever I said PS5 probably has 36 CUs and so on, so this is nothing new. You can look for bias or console wars somewhere else, I'm mostly on Era to talk tech.

What I've said comes from deduction , if you disagree with any of my points, you are welcome to lay out your thoughts but just like in previous threads, I mostly ignore comments like "no way Sony is stupid enough to have only 36 CU" because I don't find them very insightful or interesting. This is the thread to discuss the PS5, I'm not going to discuss the PS5's SSD in the Xbox thread, so let's have a real discussion about it without having some people feel too overprotective or emotional because its' the PS5's most precious advantage.

So, This is my logic, feel free to counter point me if you can be respectful:
1) NVMe drives throttle, that's just what they do. A non-throttling NVMe drive is pretty unique and anyone who has that feature will probably be shouting it off the rooftops. Cerny did not talk about it at all so that's the first reason to doubt it's a sustained bandwidth.
2) MS had to go very low in bandwidth in order to have it be consistent, it's not just the "12 channels vs 8 channels" that makes the difference, MS could have easily had a 4GB/s NVMe using 8 channels but they dialed it down considerably in order to have fixed bandwidth. MS, BTW, are shouting it off the rooftop.
3) CPUs and GPUs have fixed clocks on consoles (or at least a few fixed profiles) so if you have a console that has a frequency that isn't fixed, you will probably talk about it because it's unusual for a console. If you have a storage device that doesn't have a fixed speed you might not, considering it's very rare for a storage device to have a fixed speed. So it takes us back to the first point, if you have fixed bandwidth, you would have shouted it from the rooftops, especially if you talk about it for 15 minutes in a tech oriented lecture. If you aren't talking about a killer feature, I will assume you don't have it.
4) Allowing users to upgrade using standard drives that throttle sounds very hard to cool and avoid throttling.

And one last thing, I don't know for a fact if 5.5GB/s is fixed speed or not, but I really don't mind doing an avatar bet with chris 1515. As I've said before, I think this is the worst avatar ever created, thus, the most amazing avatar ever created. So if I lose, I actually win twice - my launch PS5 will have a faster SSD and I will have the best avatar on Era.

Ok avatar bet done... At least someone taking the chance...

3) This is under NDA they can hide it and said nothing and no one can talk about it. They decided to be honest.

jpg


Here the speed he give is 7.4 GB/s.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
Since next generation console pricing is obviously one of the big things we still need to find out for both, Phil Spencer's words on this in the IGN Unlocked interview with Ryan McCaffrey today were interesting. He feels good about their price and plan, even mentioning the removal of the optical audio as a small example of something that helps to keep the price down too. He mentioned that the CEO Satya Nadella and the CFO Amy Hood are both invested and on board with their pricing plans, and he added that they would still stay agile on pricing relative to the competition too. This didn't really sound to me like they are going above $499, so it will be interesting to see how things shake out for both on pricing.

Pricing is what going to make this very interesting .
If PS5 is $399 is going to be a battle of value between the 3 system if they at different prices.
 

bcatwilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,483
Pricing is what going to make this very interesting .
If PS5 is $399 is going to be a battle of value between the 3 system if they at different prices.

True, but listening to that along with the comment on staying agile on pricing relative to the competition makes me think that it is possible Xbox could even move to $449 relative to a possible $399 PS5 price point as one example. We will see I guess.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
So, This is my logic, feel free to counter point me if you can be respectful:
1) NVMe drives throttle, that's just what they do. A non-throttling NVMe drive is pretty unique and anyone who has that feature will probably be shouting it off the rooftops. Cerny did not talk about it at all so that's the first reason to doubt it's a sustained bandwidth.
2) MS had to go very low in bandwidth in order to have it be consistent, it's not just the "12 channels vs 8 channels" that makes the difference, MS could have easily had a 4GB/s NVMe using 8 channels but they dialed it down considerably in order to have fixed bandwidth. MS, BTW, are shouting it off the rooftop.
3) CPUs and GPUs have fixed clocks on consoles (or at least a few fixed profiles) so if you have a console that has a frequency that isn't fixed, you will probably talk about it because it's unusual for a console. If you have a storage device that doesn't have a fixed speed you might not, considering it's very rare for a storage device to have a fixed speed. So it takes us back to the first point, if you have fixed bandwidth, you would have shouted it from the rooftops, especially if you talk about it for 15 minutes in a tech oriented lecture. If you aren't talking about a killer feature, I will assume you don't have it.
4) Allowing users to upgrade using standard drives that throttle sounds very hard to cool and avoid throttling.

And one last thing, I don't know for a fact if 5.5GB/s is fixed speed or not, but I really don't mind doing an avatar bet with chris 1515. As I've said before, I think this is the worst avatar ever created, thus, the most amazing avatar ever created. So if I lose, I actually win twice - my launch PS5 will have a faster SSD and I will have the best avatar on Era.

I really don't think MS could have easily done that to get more speed .
Sony add a bunch of stuff which is going to add cost but also change there board and APU .
I mean MS could have easily not go with there ram layout which much easier to do than change there SSD set up but did not because of certain factors.
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
True, but listening to that along with the comment on staying agile on pricing relative to the competition makes me think that it is possible Xbox could even move to $449 relative to a possible $399 PS5 price point as one example. We will see I guess.

That was my feeling with it as well. I don't think we'll see a $100 difference between the two consoles. $50 if that.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
Yup, so much better of a starting point for both companies. PS4 with one of the most successful systems ever and a much more powerful system to start with and Xbox building momentum with their own far more powerful system than last gen.
They both have good momentum going into next-gen. I'm looking forward to more news in these times.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
If your SSD is running hot inside of an external enclosure you may want to consider a different enclosure, such as one made of metal to better conduct heat away from the drive.

Sony can tailor an enclosure for external SSD for stop the throttling problem same with the internal SSD. After we will see in 7 months or at worse March 2021.
 

Axel Stone

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,771
Also, as an aside, people asking about why Xbox fans are in this thread, talking for myself I can say that a large part of the reason is that I'm waiting to see Transistor dole out more terrible avatars.

Although I am somewhat interested in what the PS5 can do as well. There's currently a very real chance that it might be the first PlayStation I've ever bought somewhere down the line.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Dr Keo, I know you're one of the most technically proficient peeps on this forum. I've been following the speculation threads for a good while and I respect the technical expertise you brought with your posts even if I didn't agree with some of your conclusions. But this? Just casually implying that the SSD speed given by Cerny is just another boost clock? Because Cerny didn't specifically state that it's sustained read speeds then it must be another lie? That the official specs given on the Playstation blog is also Cerny spreading misinformation? That they also mislead the Digital Foundry reporters by never mentioning to them during their interview that the PS5 SSD is a sham and that it only reaches the stated speeds some of the time?

First Brad Sams and now you.
The funny thing is that Cerny actually gave specific amount.

There was a slide that showed "AT least 5GB/s"
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
The price battle will really be interesting in the first 2 or 3 years after that is sort normalizes and still matter but less so .
 

Brohan

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,544
Netherlands
Since next generation console pricing is obviously one of the big things we still need to find out for both, Phil Spencer's words on this in the IGN Unlocked interview with Ryan McCaffrey today were interesting. He feels good about their price and plan, even mentioning the removal of the optical audio as a small example of something that helps to keep the price down too. He mentioned that the CEO Satya Nadella and the CFO Amy Hood are both invested and on board with their pricing plans, and he added that they would still stay agile on pricing relative to the competition too. This didn't really sound to me like they are going above $499, so it will be interesting to see how things shake out for both on pricing.

Wait.. What? The XsX doesn't have optical audio? How did I miss this? And why the hell would they do that? How much can it possibly save them?

Well that's me bummed about that fact... Guess I wont be using my current audio setup the way that i'm doing now. Will most likely have to replace my amp too since the sound via USB was complete shit.
 

lukeskymac

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
992
So, This is my logic, feel free to counter point me if you can be respectful:
1) NVMe drives throttle, that's just what they do. A non-throttling NVMe drive is pretty unique and anyone who has that feature will probably be shouting it off the rooftops. Cerny did not talk about it at all so that's the first reason to doubt it's a sustained bandwidth.
2) MS had to go very low in bandwidth in order to have it be consistent, it's not just the "12 channels vs 8 channels" that makes the difference, MS could have easily had a 4GB/s NVMe using 8 channels but they dialed it down considerably in order to have fixed bandwidth. MS, BTW, are shouting it off the rooftop.
3) CPUs and GPUs have fixed clocks on consoles (or at least a few fixed profiles) so if you have a console that has a frequency that isn't fixed, you will probably talk about it because it's unusual for a console. If you have a storage device that doesn't have a fixed speed you might not, considering it's very rare for a storage device to have a fixed speed. So it takes us back to the first point, if you have fixed bandwidth, you would have shouted it from the rooftops, especially if you talk about it for 15 minutes in a tech oriented lecture. If you aren't talking about a killer feature, I will assume you don't have it.
4) Allowing users to upgrade using standard drives that throttle sounds very hard to cool and avoid throttling.

1) I think you are really overstating SSD fade and heat production. There are many PCIe 4.0 m.2s with simple heatsinks that don't have fade. I have seen multiple drives between 6-8W, but I don't think I've even seen one reach 10W. This is not a challenge to design around for a custom solution.
2) and 3) are justifications for your previous assumptions. I don't have much to say about them other than that I disagree with them.
4) Is a valid point. It will probably not be as elegant as Microsoft's solution, but again, there are already drives that don't fade with the simple addition of a small-medium heatsink, most of them simply passively cooled. If a drive can fit in the bay and the bay is well ventilated, they should work as well as they do on PCs.

Edit: for example, regarding 2), I think it's more likely that Microsoft would have needed to do more hardware work removing bottlenecks for 4GBps theoretical to reliably materialize into 4GBps to the devs. So they called it a day with what they had - BCPack has a very good ratio for textures, which are the biggest chunk of most games AFAIK. Again, thermals just aren't a convincing argument to me.
 
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Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
Wait.. What? The XsX doesn't have optical audio? How did I miss this? And why the hell would they do that? How much can it possibly save them?

Well that's me bummed about that fact... Guess I wont be using my current audio setup the way that i'm doing now. Will most likely have to replace my amp too since the sound via USB was complete shit.

Isn't HDMI the new standard for sound systems?
 
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