PlayStation 5 Specs Revealed by EuroGamer (See Threadmarks)

[Lukas Taves]

Reading the replies here you would think SX has to stream data from a 256kbps connection XD

In reality it's still a blazing fast ssd and has features such as sampler feedback to only load the part of data that is needed and that's also able to deliver directly into the ram with a low latency mode.

So not so bold, as it's pretty obvious, prediction: We will hit production and storage size limits much much earlier than the transfer speed of the SX ssd becomes a problem for getting the data just in time.

so why so many devs are excited about this super fast ps5 ssd ?

Matt Phillips on Twitter

“That custom SSD transfer chip is cartridge-to-RAM DMA all over again and I'm excited. I hope Xbox does something similar, though, or we can't architect an engine around it and it'll be a moot point unless you're Naughty Dog.”

twitter.com

Andrea Pessino on Twitter

“Dollar bet: within a year from its launch gamers will fully appreciate that the PlayStation 5 is one of the most revolutionary, inspired home consoles ever designed, and will feel silly for having spent energy arguing about "teraflops" and other similarly misunderstood specs. 😘”

twitter.com

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First guy isn't even aware that SX has the same feature of directly moving data from ssd to ram, intended for the same scenario Cerny spoke about, so I think it is safe to say they are just excited about a really fast ssd without actually testing on either console how much data and how fast can actually be delivered and used in game.

 

[BradGrenz]

I typed this else where, but people saying things about the ssd enabling entirely different looking open world games does not make much sense based upon what we know about open world dev really. All data pulled from ssd would be static data, completely unmutable. That would mean perfectly predesigned Level data and arrangements, which is the exact opposite methodolgy of how modern open world games increase their detail and variety - which is infact through prcedural method not living on the disk (hdd/ssd).
Procedural methods exist to increase the efficiency of artists and diversity of the game World and even increase detail beyond static draws. If you are pulling things from an ssd to do that kind of detail, that means artists spent their time making it.. Which seems pretty antithetical to efficient dev.

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Open world games are using procedural techniques, but the art isn't being generated by algorithms. Horizon uses procedural placement of precreated assets, for example. SSD's will be a huge boon for games like it. Outside of No Man's Sky, that is.

 

[AnilP228]

When are they releasing the Pro specs?

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I know this is likely sarcasm, but unless 8K TV's suddenly become mainstream I highly doubt we're getting mid-gen refreshes.

 

[GhostTrick]

Well that's just my point. In a scenario where only XSX and PS5 exist, games don't perform as well on PS5.

but with LH, games will be designed around its limitations, and will perform the worst on it, right? Even if it's 1080p focused, if it has less RAM or even a slower SSD than XSX, then I think that would have an impact on all 3rd party games.

I know you weren't discussing LH specifically but I just think the discussion of whether PS5 versions will perform worse than XSX can't really be determined yet since we don't know about LH officially.

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If it's aiming for 1080p, it'll need less ram.
And people should stop thinking that specs gets a 100% usage. Devs are getting SSDs. Even if those were only SATAIII, that'd already be a dramatic improvement. People are now acting that anything under 5GB/s will be a bottleneck or that devs are just waiting to push such rates to their limits.

That's what happen when people eat too much tech PR.

It's like nothing was learned from the previous generation.

 

[Dictator]

Open world games are using procedural techniques, but the art isn't being generated by algorithms. Horizon uses procedural placement of precreated assets, for example. SSD's will be a huge boon for games like it. Outside of No Man's Sky, that is.

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Think of it like this: is each texture on a Rock im an open world a unique 4k by 4k texture with an associated light map for baked light? Or does it share textures with other objects, rely on tiling sharable detail maps, and have dynamic lighting?

You can get a similar look with both, but where the data resides, how much time an artist took to make it, and in what size it is, is very different.

Drawing everything as a bespokely made object off disc is not the directions large open world games have been going in design wise.

 

[BradGrenz]

Think of it like this: is each texture on a Rock im an open world a unique 4k by 4k texture with an associated light map for baked light? Or does it share textures with other objects, rely on tiling sharable detail maps, and have dynamic lighting?

You can get a similar look with both, but where the data resides, how much time an artist took to make it, and in what size it is, is very different.

Drawing everything as a bespokely made object off disc is not the directions large open world games have been going in design wise.

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I don't think it matters, either way the quality and variety of those assets can increase dramatically. For example, you design a system to dynamically populate the world with trees in a way that they are all unique, but use common asset pools in the manner you describe. Previously you game may have been limited to only 2 or three species of tree in a given biome. With the SSD now there could be dozens of kinds of trees. Same goes for grasses, rocks, bushes, etc, etc.

 

[BreakAtmo]

I know this is likely sarcasm, but unless 8K TV's suddenly become mainstream I highly doubt we're getting mid-gen refreshes.

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This actually isn't as relevant as you may think. While "4K console for your 4K TV" was indeed what the marketing for the Pro and the X focused on, Andrew House stated around the time of the Pro release that the actual impetus for its creation was that they had data from the prior gen showing that the lucrative hardcore demographic has a tendency to migrate to PC midway through a generation. The Pro was their attempt to entice those hardcore gamers to stay within their ecosystem and spend their money there. Whether or not a PS5 Pro happens will depend on how effective that strategy was, and based on the PS4 Pro's sales and the amount of money made by PlayStation digital services, it was pretty dammed effective. The marketing approach would come later - it could focus on 8K, but it could also focus on more advanced ray-tracing at higher resolutions.

 

[dsk1210]

I know this is likely sarcasm, but unless 8K TV's suddenly become mainstream I highly doubt we're getting mid-gen refreshes.

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It was sarcasm mate ;)

Will probabaly pick one up at some point for my son and me.

 

[saintjules]

Yasss

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Haha, great minds...

 

[nib95]

I typed this else where, but people saying things about the ssd enabling entirely different looking open world games does not make much sense based upon what we know about open world dev really. All data pulled from ssd would be static data, completely unmutable. That would mean perfectly predesigned Level data and arrangements, which is the exact opposite methodolgy of how modern open world games increase their detail and variety - which is infact through prcedural method not living on the disk (hdd/ssd).
Procedural methods exist to increase the efficiency of artists and diversity of the game World and even increase detail beyond static draws. If you are pulling things from an ssd to do that kind of detail, that means artists spent their time making it.. Which seems pretty antithetical to efficient dev.

I would think the ssd would not help open world games like you imagine, rather corridor games where a dev spend the time to Design every nut and bolt in a static fashion that is drawn from disc into memory. But not even geo as I have never recently Heard of a dev running out of memory for Model data. I guess completely unique textures (if the dev is not using sharable/procesural/Tiling textures for some reason) or rather static light maps that are very dense (so static and completely unique textures). That is, if that dev for some reason wants to forsake more modern Procedural Design or dynamic scene elements).

Basically, if a dev is designing around an ssd in the manner like you describe, that means that all their detail must already exist In a big Form on disc, which sounds like a lot of wasted dev time and disc space to me when modern Procedural solutions save time, disc space, and probably increase the dynamism and accuracy. A good example is massively detail ed GI light map textures vs actually prcedural dynamic RT GI.

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In your Star Citizen video you describe how the minimum SSD requirement allows entirely different game design features, wouldn't the same sort of principles (and more) apply to other games, including open world ones?

I recall a GG dev in an interview a while back stated that they initially wanted flight in HZD, but were unable to include it due to data streaming limitations at the fidelity of the world they were going for. Presumably that is the exact type of thing an SSD would remedy.

 

[LifeAlerrt]

I typed this else where, but people saying things about the ssd enabling entirely different looking open world games does not make much sense based upon what we know about open world dev really. All data pulled from ssd would be static data, completely unmutable. That would mean perfectly predesigned Level data and arrangements, which is the exact opposite methodolgy of how modern open world games increase their detail and variety - which is infact through prcedural method not living on the disk (hdd/ssd).
Procedural methods exist to increase the efficiency of artists and diversity of the game World and even increase detail beyond static draws. If you are pulling things from an ssd to do that kind of detail, that means artists spent their time making it.. Which seems pretty antithetical to efficient dev.

I would think the ssd would not help open world games like you imagine, rather corridor games where a dev spend the time to Design every nut and bolt in a static fashion that is drawn from disc into memory. But not even geo as I have never recently Heard of a dev running out of memory for Model data. I guess completely unique textures (if the dev is not using sharable/procesural/Tiling textures for some reason) or rather static light maps that are very dense (so static and completely unique textures). That is, if that dev for some reason wants to forsake more modern Procedural Design or dynamic scene elements).

Basically, if a dev is designing around an ssd in the manner like you describe, that means that all their detail must already exist In a big Form on disc, which sounds like a lot of wasted dev time and disc space to me when modern Procedural solutions save time, disc space, and probably increase the dynamism and accuracy. A good example is massively detail ed GI light map textures vs actually prcedural dynamic RT GI.

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So 10 years later, Cerny and Phil are on stage talking about their AI chip and deep learning magic designed to create magical open worlds. Bring on PS6/Xbox series Y

 

[DigSCCP]

I know this is likely sarcasm, but unless 8K TV's suddenly become mainstream I highly doubt we're getting mid-gen refreshes.

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I have a feeling that the Pro consoles won't be about resolution this time, they will be all about RT.

 

[thuway]

I typed this else where, but people saying things about the ssd enabling entirely different looking open world games does not make much sense based upon what we know about open world dev really. All data pulled from ssd would be static data, completely unmutable. That would mean perfectly predesigned Level data and arrangements, which is the exact opposite methodolgy of how modern open world games increase their detail and variety - which is infact through prcedural method not living on the disk (hdd/ssd).
Procedural methods exist to increase the efficiency of artists and diversity of the game World and even increase detail beyond static draws. If you are pulling things from an ssd to do that kind of detail, that means artists spent their time making it.. Which seems pretty antithetical to efficient dev.

I would think the ssd would not help open world games like you imagine, rather corridor games where a dev spend the time to Design every nut and bolt in a static fashion that is drawn from disc into memory. But not even geo as I have never recently Heard of a dev running out of memory for Model data. I guess completely unique textures (if the dev is not using sharable/procesural/Tiling textures for some reason) or rather static light maps that are very dense (so static and completely unique textures). That is, if that dev for some reason wants to forsake more modern Procedural Design or dynamic scene elements).

Basically, if a dev is designing around an ssd in the manner like you describe, that means that all their detail must already exist In a big Form on disc, which sounds like a lot of wasted dev time and disc space to me when modern Procedural solutions save time, disc space, and probably increase the dynamism and accuracy. A good example is massively detail ed GI light map textures vs actually prcedural dynamic RT GI.

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Doesn't this totally contradict what Mark Cerny was saying in his video about level design changing completely? Those would be totally different looking games.

 

[Dictator]

Doesn't this totally contradict what Mark Cerny was saying in his video about level design changing completely? Those would be totally different looking games.

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No - I just think the idea of having everything on the disk for a big world, and all the artist time that would mean and disk space it would mean seems anti thetical to open world design. Rather, it sounds like something a dev would want for a smaller game environement where there are resources and time to have everything be bespoke (perhaps).

IDK, ballooning budgets and artist time by putting more on disk instead of creating ways to increase diversity in a more procedural way seems like something that I think most people could understand.

Like, would you really prefer lots of really dense baked lighting taking up 200 GB of disk space (think AC unity here) or would you prefer a dynamic solution taking up next to none?

 

[Deleted member 2379]

Doesn't this totally contradict what Mark Cerny was saying in his video about level design changing completely? Those would be totally different looking games.

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Level design can change completely because you can build levels around the streaming of assets directly in and not have to force LOS breaks to reduce assets held in Ram.

His point is a different one. Just because you can doesn't mean you should or would. Just because the game can stream in all these assets all that means is that you need to have someone developing each one. Considering the amount of time that would take, it is much more time efficient to use procedural methods to do a lot of this work.

Do you spend 8 years hand crafting a game or three using technology seems to be the point. Just because you can doesn't mean devs will actually do it because they have time constraints and budgets. Game design is all about trade offs. Procedural work exists to take the load off.

 

[WinFonda]

No - I just think the idea of having everything on the disk for a big world, and all the artist time that would mean and disk space it would mean seems anti thetical to open world design. Rather, it sounds like something a dev would want for a smaller game environement where there are resources and time to have everything be bespoke (perhaps).

IDK, ballooning budgets and artist time by putting more on disk instead of creating ways to increase diversity in a more procedural way seems like something that I think most people could understand.

Like, would you really prefer lots of really dense baked lighting taking up 200 GB of disk space (think AC unity here) or would you prefer a dynamic solution taking up next to none?

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Procedural generation ain't a solution to everything tho, not yet. Sure, real time lighting solutions make a lot of sense, especially with ray tracing. But something like No Man's Sky is an obvious outlier in the industry, and we aren't really there yet. Artists still need to art, and stuff.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I don't really understand that argument. Just because you can load more high-quality or more varied assets that doesn't mean that you have to produce dramatically more. Devs are already producing high-quality stuff for different LOD levels.

And even if they have to produce better assets (it's next-gen after all), stuff like ray-tracing integration for dev tools will make it much easier to create ultra high-quality baked lighting assets. I also doubt that there will be any problems with disk space, when you have something like KRAKEN that can decompress data from SSD with up to 22 GB/s, and when it's not necessary anymore to have duplicate assets on the SSD.

 

[NXGamer]

No - I just think the idea of having everything on the disk for a big world, and all the artist time that would mean and disk space it would mean seems anti thetical to open world design. Rather, it sounds like something a dev would want for a smaller game environement where there are resources and time to have everything be bespoke (perhaps).

IDK, ballooning budgets and artist time by putting more on disk instead of creating ways to increase diversity in a more procedural way seems like something that I think most people could understand.

Like, would you really prefer lots of really dense baked lighting taking up 200 GB of disk space (think AC unity here) or would you prefer a dynamic solution taking up next to none?

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I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle, having a vast pool with a much wider pipe to the RAM means that devs and more so artists can ramp up the options within density, detail, materials and worlds. The SSD here gives them a much bigger scope and enables a more streamlined approach to procedural placement, not textured surfaces or MIP chains. Teams use procedural creation to reduce the build and layout time, here they can expand the variety within the Frustum, the variety of NPC models, clothes even enemies within RAM which will reduce the amount of times you see Zombie A in Resident Evil or the face of Shopkeep B in Skyrim 15.

This is the options that SSD and the core design of the process delivers but also a great deal more besides this, something like Legacy of Kain warping of vertices for example could now be an entire transportation of everything within your view and world within a couple of frames, data is still key and will still need to be authored on the Disc and SSD, the option now is how much the devs want to cram into the Frustum and 3D space is no longer limited "directly" by the {Ram / FPS / objects / Stream speed} = Maximum density of game frames. The BIG gain in development time is no longer having to go back through streaming chain and LOD system creating artifical walls to manage this, sector points to initiate seek, or just reduce LOD and MIP bias at a per segment basis to meet target rates and performance.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Procedural generation ain't a solution to everything tho, not yet. Sure, real time lighting solutions make a lot of sense, especially with ray tracing. But something like No Man's Sky is an obvious outlier in the industry, and we aren't really there yet. Artists still need to art, and stuff.

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I don't think he means like No Mans Sky, but like procedural texture generation. making shit like wood grain using some procedural noise textures. no need to sculpt that shit, generate a noise to use as a displacement and normal map

programs like Substance Designer and Alchemist are made for these and see extensive use in all 3D industries

 

[Deleted member 18161]

No one should target 4k60 this generation, really. 1440p/checkerboard 4K @ 60 but with better graphical quality is what the focus should be this gen.

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Native 4k isn't going to be an issue for either of these new consoles. Nor will 60fps in most cases and because of the lack of massive bottlenecks like this gen (awful CPU / slow hard disc speeds) there will not be many cases where going from 2160p down to 1440p will suddenly mean a doubling of a games framerate from 30fps to 60fps because games will be designed around 60fps from the start.

When talking about the chances of 60fps for next gen games people seem to totally forget about all the games that target 60fps on base consoles this gen and all the games which with a relatively tiny CPU clock speed bump on the Pro / X could suddenly get to a locked 60fps on the games that targeted 60fps on base consoles or could enable 60fps modes on games that targeted 30fps on base consoles.

These aren't only sports games or fighting games or simple looking 3D games either, it's heavy hitting AAA exclusives like God of War, Forza Horizon and Gears.

I believe that 99% of games for Series X and PS5 will target 60fps because of a combination of the 4x leap in CPU compute aswell as the removal of the massive bottleneck from this gen which was disc read speeds.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Seems like Andrew Maximov (former Technical Art Director @ Naughty Dog) doesn't agree with the notion that the PS5 SSD won't change how (open-world) games will look:

 

[thuway]

No - I just think the idea of having everything on the disk for a big world, and all the artist time that would mean and disk space it would mean seems anti thetical to open world design. Rather, it sounds like something a dev would want for a smaller game environement where there are resources and time to have everything be bespoke (perhaps).

IDK, ballooning budgets and artist time by putting more on disk instead of creating ways to increase diversity in a more procedural way seems like something that I think most people could understand.

Like, would you really prefer lots of really dense baked lighting taking up 200 GB of disk space (think AC unity here) or would you prefer a dynamic solution taking up next to none?

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Alex I was hoping you could respond to this -

Andrew Maximov on Twitter

“@Tyler496 @Mugenory21 @SeanReli @wccftechdotcom Oh wow yeah the Digital Foundry guy is quite wrong. Which is quite uncharacteristic as those guys are usually pretty on point”

twitter.com

This is out of my wheel house.

 

[zombiejames]

Seems like Andrew Maximov (former Technical Art Director @ Naughty Dog) doesn't agree with the notion that the PS5 SSD won't change how (open-world) games will look:

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I was just about to post something about this, too. It'd be interesting to hear a rebuttal.

 

[Dictator]

Alex I was hoping you could respond to this -

Andrew Maximov on Twitter

“@Tyler496 @Mugenory21 @SeanReli @wccftechdotcom Oh wow yeah the Digital Foundry guy is quite wrong. Which is quite uncharacteristic as those guys are usually pretty on point”

twitter.com

This is out of my wheel house.

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I already said that these next gen boxes will change open world games (which was the whole point of us saying that an SSD is need foe Star Citizen and in every, Video covering these consoles) just that the one Box will not do it radically different than the other. I will happily content for quite a while that no open world dev should spend their time creating bespoke Layouts and assets when prcedural could Do it more efficiently. Yet people think my comment is about console wars and for some reason feel the need to quote it for console wars.

 

[thuway]

I already said that these next gen boxes will change open world games (which was the whole point of us saying that an SSD is need foe Star Citizen and in every, Video covering these consoles) just that the one Box will not do it radically different than the other. I will happily content for quite a while that no open world dev should spend their time creating bespoke Layouts and assets when prcedural could Do it more efficiently. Yet people think my comment is about console wars and for some reason feel the need to quote it for console wars.

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So what your saying is PS5 platform exclusives that are leveraging the SSD won't have significant advantages in terms of level design or asset density?

 

[sncvsrtoip]

I already said that these next gen boxes will change open world games (which was the whole point of us saying that an SSD is need foe Star Citizen and in every, Video covering these consoles) just that the one Box will not do it radically different than the other. I will happily content for quite a while that no open world dev should spend their time creating bespoke Layouts and assets when prcedural could Do it more efficiently. Yet people think my comment is about console wars and for some reason feel the need to quote it for console wars.

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is Star Citizen good example as it's on cry engine which is not best suited for large open world and that can be reason it needs ssd when maybe more suited engine not necesserly?

 

[Dictator]

So what your saying is PS5 platform exclusives that are leveraging the SSD won't have significant advantages in terms of level design or asset density?

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Asset density in the main viewport for games where you are not rapidly moving around a World (like a plane) , in any one view, like the density of triangle, the amount unique assets, is a matter of draw calls, geometry throughput, shading, worries about over draw and triangle size. Yeah i think a PS5 exclusive and XSX exclusive will have similar density on those terms. I do think a PS5 game could have a higher density baked lighting if they wanted (if anyone really wants such a thing) and have LODs resolve further from the Camera in a game where the Camera moves really quickly and the main limitation for LOD Range is io speed and not some other thing.
but I am honestly not sure how much the matter is a common problem, as all the games I come into contact with Limit LOD Range based on shading limitations.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Asset density in the main viewport for games where you are not rapidly moving around a World (like a plane) , in any one view, like the density of triangle, the amount unique assets, is a matter of draw calls, geometry throughput, shading, worries about over draw and triangle size. Yeah i think a PS5 exclusive and XSX exclusive will have similar density on those terms. I do think a PS5 game could have a higher density baked lighting if they wanted (if anyone really wants such a thing) and have LODs resolve further from the Camera in a game where the Camera moves really quickly and the main limitation for LOD Range is io speed and not some other thing.
but I am honestly not sure how much the matter is a common problem, as all the games I come into contact with Limit LOD Range based on shading limitations.

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We will see which game version will have more grass I guess.

 

[Lukemia SL]

Seems like Andrew Maximov (former Technical Art Director @ Naughty Dog) doesn't agree with the notion that the PS5 SSD won't change how (open-world) games will look:

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Dang.

 

[chris 1515]

Asset density in the main viewport for games where you are not rapidly moving around a World (like a plane) , in any one view, like the density of triangle, the amount unique assets, is a matter of draw calls, geometry throughput, shading, worries about over draw and triangle size. Yeah i think a PS5 exclusive and XSX exclusive will have similar density on those terms. I do think a PS5 game could have a higher density baked lighting if they wanted (if anyone really wants such a thing) and have LODs resolve further from the Camera in a game where the Camera moves really quickly and the main limitation for LOD Range is io speed and not some other thing.
but I am honestly not sure how much the matter is a common problem, as all the games I come into contact with Limit LOD Range based on shading limitations.

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You can bake up much more than lighting now(complex physics, destruction). With tree of interpolated baked animation you can bake complex physics using for example Alembic Animation and maybe we will have like in Adam Unity demo some great cloth simulation quality with dozens of NPC on screen or crazy Blender flip fluid simulation baked in Alembic and able to react to realtime element because of interpolation like in dynamic probes. This is where the PS5 will goes further than Xbox Series X...

EDIT: This is the next step SSD will push after textures, geometry details, tons of animation and sound. Fine tune the detail and add the complexity not reachable by realtime.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I already said that these next gen boxes will change open world games (which was the whole point of us saying that an SSD is need foe Star Citizen and in every, Video covering these consoles) just that the one Box will not do it radically different than the other. I will happily content for quite a while that no open world dev should spend their time creating bespoke Layouts and assets when prcedural could Do it more efficiently. Yet people think my comment is about console wars and for some reason feel the need to quote it for console wars.

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So a dev said this in another thread .
"One thing I hope studios are thinking about is creating systems for higher quality procedurally generated assets. These SSD improvements open up the door for vaster and more intricately designed spaces, which are going to require a whole helluva lot more art."
Won't the SSD speed effect that ?

 

[Edgar]

We will see which game version will have more grass I guess.

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all i care is about 16x AF

 

[GhostTrick]

So a dev said this in another thread .
"One thing I hope studios are thinking about is creating systems for higher quality procedurally generated assets. These SSD improvements open up the door for vaster and more intricately designed spaces, which are going to require a whole helluva lot more art."
Won't the SSD speed effect that ?

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The problem is, people don't take context into the question.
Is going from 50~100MB/s of read speed to 5.5GB/s going to be a big shift in term of how much assets you can load to the point it change games ? Yes, it will.
Is going from 2.4GB/s to 5.5GB/s be a big shift too ? That's a question that remains to be answered.

That's the problem with all this SSD talk. In fact, it's always has been a problem with new console generations. Every time there's a bottleneck that dies off, people are taking it as if it was the only one and that a revolution is coming.
We're going from limited speed to really high speeds and some people are acting as if it represents a new baseline and that we needed to reach that specific number to change things when it could be that even 1GB/s would've been already a dramatic change.

 

[vivftp]

Given what we know about the PS5 so far, has anyone speculated on what might be possible with PSVR2? I'm still holding out a bit of hope for dual 4K screens :)

 

[Castamere]

We will see which game version will have more grass I guess.

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Mafia 4 |OT| The grass is greener...

 

[gundamkyoukai]

The problem is, people don't take context into the question.
Is going from 50~100MB/s of read speed to 5.5GB/s going to be a big shift in term of how much assets you can load to the point it change games ? Yes, it will.
Is going from 2.4GB/s to 5.5GB/s be a big shift too ? That's a question that remains to be answered.

That's the problem with all this SSD talk. In fact, it's always has been a problem with new console generations. Every time there's a bottleneck that dies off, people are taking it as if it was the only one and that a revolution is coming.
We're going from limited speed to really high speeds and some people are acting as if it represents a new baseline and that we needed to reach that specific number to change things when it could be that even 1GB/s would've been already a dramatic change.

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I am not saying other wise .
But just like how a faster GPU or CPU effect things the same will be for the speed SSD if we talking ram management and other factors.
Like you said we have to wait and see what happens and what it will effect but people just trying to piece together things from the info we getting .
It's one of the big aspect of this upcoming gen so it is interesting.

 

[Sidewinder]

Given what we know about the PS5 so far, has anyone speculated on what might be possible with PSVR2? I'm still holding out a bit of hope for dual 4K screens :)

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That'd be a dream, should be enough to watch movies in cinema mode with more than satisfying quality right? For games it'd be great too obviously ;)

Guess PSVR2 will profit most from the audio tech inside the PS5 because the huge majority use headphones with VR. Other than that I've no clue.

 

[vivftp]

That'd be a dream, should be enough to watch movies in cinema mode with more than satisfying quality right? For games it'd be great too obviously ;)

Guess PSVR2 will profit most from the audio tech inside the PS5 because the huge majority use headphones with VR. Other than that I've no clue.

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Yeah, the audio should be amazing. The fact that the DS5 uses haptics and things like resistive triggers makes me think the next gen VR controllers will at the very least go that far, possibly even further so that's something to look forward to as well.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

The problem is, people don't take context into the question.
Is going from 50~100MB/s of read speed to 5.5GB/s going to be a big shift in term of how much assets you can load to the point it change games ? Yes, it will.
Is going from 2.4GB/s to 5.5GB/s be a big shift too ? That's a question that remains to be answered.

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Huh? But the difference is bigger:

100 MB/s to 2.4 GB/s = 2.3 GB/s increase

2.4 GB/s to 5.5 GB/s = 3.1 GB/s increase

Why is an increase by 2.3 GB/s somehow a "big shift", but an additonal increase by 3.1 GB/s is considered to not really change the result?

 

[GhostTrick]

Huh? But the difference is bigger:

100 MB/s to 2.4 GB/s = 2.3 GB/s increase

2.4 GB/s to 5.5 GB/s = 3.1 GB/s increase

Why is an increase by 2.3 GB/s somehow a "big shift", but an additonal increase by 3.1 GB/s is considered to not really change the result?

Click to shrink...

100MB/s to 2.4GB/s is 24 times more.
2.4GBs/ to 5.5GB/s is around 2.3 times more.

There is a wider gap between "doing 24 times more" than "doing 2.3 times more".

This is why it's a big shift.
I mean, there's a 2 Tflops difference between PS5 and SX. Does it mean it's a bigger gap than Switch and PS4 ?

 

[zeuanimals]

Huh? But the difference is bigger:

100 MB/s to 2.4 GB/s = 2.3 GB/s increase

2.4 GB/s to 5.5 GB/s = 3.1 GB/s increase

Why is an increase by 2.3 GB/s somehow a "big shift", but an additonal increase by 3.1 GB/s is considered to not really change the result?

Click to shrink...

I personally think it'll be a big change, but it's possible that simply being at 1 GB/s, we could've gotten the gains necessary to make all of these new things possible and going higher is just overkill.

 

[Bad_Boy]

It sounds like after you hit maximum ram speed on the sdd you will get diminishing returns.

But since neither is that fast yet, i think every gb matters.

So yeah it sounds like 2.4 is a great leap but also 5.5 is greater leap.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

100MB/s to 2.4GB/s is 24 times more.
2.4GBs/ to 5.5GB/s is around 2.3 times more.

Click to shrink...

But that's not what you said in your post above. You said this here is a big shift:

100 MB/s to 5.5 GB/s = 55 times more.

...and this is the same big shift:

100 MB/s to 2.4 GB/s = 24 times more.

I don't think it is. And the TF increase you were talking about is also much smaller, XSX has just 1.18 times the amount of TF PS5 has.

 

[GhostTrick]

But that's not what you said in your post above. You said this here is a big shift:

100 MB/s to 5.5 GB/s = 55 times more.

...and this is the same big shift:

100 MB/s to 2.4 GB/s = 24 times more.

I don't think it is. And the TF increase you were talking about is also much smaller, XSX has just 1.18 times the amount of TF PS5 has.

Click to shrink...

I didnt say that at all.
I said: Going from 50-100mb/s to 5.5gb/s is a big shift.
Going from 2.4gb/s to 5.5gb/s may not be.
To which you said "but it's bigger to go from 2.4 to 5.5 than 50-100 to 2.4". To which I said, it isn't because it's all about the difference in magnitude. Technically speaking, yes, going from 2.4gb/s to 5.5gb/s is bigger in term of gb/s than it is to 50-100mb to 2.4gb/s. But in term of percentage difference, it's smaller. A lot smaller.

Hence the Tflops exemple. I'll be even more extreme: In raw numbers, there's a far bigger difference between PS5 and SX (2Tflops) compared to NES and PS4 (1.8Tflops). And yet, because it doesn't work like this, because it's not about raw number difference but magnitude, the difference between NES and PS4 is dramatic surely over 1000 if not a 1000000 times faster while the difference between PS5 and SX is in the realm of 15-20%.

 

[zeuanimals]

But that's not what you said in your post above. You said this here is a big shift:

100 MB/s to 5.5 GB/s = 55 times more.

...and this is the same big shift:

100 MB/s to 2.4 GB/s = 24 times more.

I don't think it is. And the TF increase you were talking about is also much smaller, XSX has just 1.18 times the amount of TF PS5 has.

Click to shrink...

You start to see diminishing returns after a point. Still great, amazing even, but it's to be seen what the difference between loading that takes 2 or 3 seconds and loading that takes a fraction of a second is gonna be. Could be game changing, or could not be.

 

[thuway]

I think you are looking at this from the wrong angle, having a vast pool with a much wider pipe to the RAM means that devs and more so artists can ramp up the options within density, detail, materials and worlds. The SSD here gives them a much bigger scope and enables a more streamlined approach to procedural placement, not textured surfaces or MIP chains. Teams use procedural creation to reduce the build and layout time, here they can expand the variety within the Frustum, the variety of NPC models, clothes even enemies within RAM which will reduce the amount of times you see Zombie A in Resident Evil or the face of Shopkeep B in Skyrim 15.

This is the options that SSD and the core design of the process delivers but also a great deal more besides this, something like Legacy of Kain warping of vertices for example could now be an entire transportation of everything within your view and world within a couple of frames, data is still key and will still need to be authored on the Disc and SSD, the option now is how much the devs want to cram into the Frustum and 3D space is no longer limited "directly" by the {Ram / FPS / objects / Stream speed} = Maximum density of game frames. The BIG gain in development time is no longer having to go back through streaming chain and LOD system creating artifical walls to manage this, sector points to initiate seek, or just reduce LOD and MIP bias at a per segment basis to meet target rates and performance.

Click to shrink...

This is actually very well written and sounds awesome. I have a question - what sort of advantages would platform exclusives have Wirth a 5.5 gb / SSD?

 

[Sekiro]

Off topic but goddamn we got folks from all over the internet talking about what's happening in this specific thread, from Wccftech articles to threads from ye old site.

I mean look at this:

The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically

Digital Foundry Content Producer Alexander Battaglia recently commented on the PlayStation 5 SSD and on how it will not, by itself, change open-world games

wccftech.com

An entire article and a horde of comments generated all because of a few posts by Dictator

They better be giving Dictator some moolah for all the traffic and clicks they're getting from his posts lol.

 

[Jekked]

Off topic but goddamn we got folks from all over the internet talking about what's happening in this specific thread, from Wccftech articles to threads from ye old site.

I mean look at this:

The PlayStation 5 SSD Will Not Change Open World Games Dramatically

Digital Foundry Content Producer Alexander Battaglia recently commented on the PlayStation 5 SSD and on how it will not, by itself, change open-world games

wccftech.com

An entire article and a horde of comments generated all because of a few posts by Dictator

They better be giving Dictator some moolah for all the traffic and clicks they're getting from his posts lol.

Click to shrink...

doesn't change the fact that it's true. Or do you expect multiplatform open world games to be drastically different on PS5 compared to XSX and PC? If so, I have some bad news for you.

 

[Sekiro]

doesn't change the fact that it's true. Or do you expect multiplatform open world games are going to be drastically different on PS5 compared to XSX and PC? If so, I have some bad news for you.

Click to shrink...

I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with anything here.... just pointing things out...

Jesus.

 

[thuway]

doesn't change the fact that it's true. Or do you expect multiplatform open world games to be drastically different on PS5 compared to XSX and PC? If so, I have some bad news for you.

Click to shrink...

I mean ps5 platform exclusives about to look real TASTY 👌