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gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
12.15/9.21 = 31.9%.

Dont fall for the 10.2 tflops number. it will almost never happen. Zen 2 CPU consumes far less power than the gpu. the smaller cut down version of the cpu here consumes as low as 20w. even if by some miracle devs are able to shutdown the entire cpu (Which will never ever happen) the 20w increase will not allow them to hit the 2.23 ghz clockspeed anyway.

its one of those theoretical tflops numbers that the gpu CAN hit but lets face it, it will never hit.

Well, he said it was the 'typical' clock, and that it would be outliers that stress the system in a way that causes variation. That may turn out to be untrue, but we'll see.

Also, I'm not sure how you figure RT performance difference would be higher. Being in the CUs it would have the same perf delta as any other CU-bound work - i.e. the same difference as reflected in the Tflop figures at a given clock.
 

Japi

Banned
Oct 14, 2019
66
Guys, imagine a game runs 2160p on Xbox Series X and 1800p on PS5. Will the differences in graphics and details be that big in this situation?

That would be disgusting, whats the point of next generation if it cant do current graphics across the board?

I mean the x and pro were supposed to be 4k, so if ps5 fails here(4k 60 standard) then i'm sorry thats a massive oversight by sony.
Longs as it does 4k 60 its all good, but I'm not sure many people value audio and quick loading times over a decent FR, especially in a next gen system.
 

cdigs

Member
Apr 4, 2019
782
Prediction: Sony 1st party exclusive games will be absolutely gorgeous (they already are) and push the boundaries of the PS5, resulting in many games running at native 4K and 30 FPS. Many people will be salty about it, but it will be OK as it always is.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
I think Cerny said, anything that's 7GB/s or more. It has to be faster in that way than the internal SSD because of the channel width in the internal SSD or something.

So, that's a tall order right now. But he said they're evaluating new SSDs as they arrive, and he expects suitable ones to become available toward the end of the year.

7gb/a ssd. He cant have said that, that's insane. Nothing comes close to that currently.
 

Guerrilla

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,235
You and so many others keep saying there's no way they will be any where close consistently. Did you not listen to Cerny?

"Running a GPU at 2 GHz was looking like an unreachable target using the old fixed-frequency strategy. With this new pardadigm, we're able to go way over that. In fact, we're having to cap the GPU frequency at 2.23 GHz, so that we can guarantee that the on-chip logic operates properly.[...] We expect the GPU to spend most of it's time at or close to that performance."
This sounds like pure PR talk though, "the old fixed frequence strategy"? This new "paradigm" has been in graphics card for almost a decade
Do you honestly think they raised clock speeds which would make the system a "jet engine" just to catch up a little bit to the series X? You dont have to praise anything just dont act like you know how loud it's going to be because in your opinion they said fuck the acoustics we need to be a little bit faster. See why I think it's funny now?
Well since my ps3 yloded, my ps4 was super loud and my pro is still very loud and as AegonSnake pointed out, to reach that boost clock the gpu would take over 130watts, which has to go somewhere, they either A: Have a super great cooling solution B: Don't reach those boost clocks or C: are going with a loud console. It could still be A, but going by my previous experience with sony hardware I lack a bit of confidence here... <-I don't think this is such a hot take

And yes, I totally think below 10tf would have made a much worse impression on the general public, and I think putting the boost clock just in the vicinity to be above that would be worth having a louder console. Since the vast majority would not care about that. Now go laugh at my agenda to make the mighty ps5 look bad
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
My understanding of this (subject to change because Sony's messaging has been abysmal) is:

- Cerny wasn't talking about boost mode when he talked about compatibility. He talked about boost mode, then talked about compatibility, but failed to draw a clear line between those two things

- Lots of people are getting hung up on the "top 100" games - that should (pending clarification) be viewed as a representative sample of what compatibility should be like, rather than a figure for compatibility at launch. The default interpretation from people appears to be "we'll have 100 PS4 games playable at launch" but an equally valid interpretation of what Cerny said would be "we'll have almost all PS4 games playable at launch, based on the sample of games we've tested"

- the Blog are paraphrasing Cerny. So what they've written doesn't change (or add to) my understanding of this

I don't see why or how Sony could produce a near-exact number of backwards compatible games for PS5's launch when they have many months of testing yet to do. That's why I think it's best not to place any weight on that number at the moment.

A clear statement from Sony would be nice though. This is a mess right now.
The bolded was my interpretation.

I'm sure they'll ultimately hit 100% sometime after launch (but based on these comments, not before it). They're really cautious with this, for some reason. Like they were really hesitant to open up boost mode on PS4 Pro before they had extensively tested it.

I'm also confident that, for whatever they end up charging for this thing, it'll be a really well thought out and compelling piece of hardware. That's Cerny's strength imho. Not making the most powerful box ever necessarily, but targeting a build cost and focusing the money in all the right places. They got lucky with PS4 because MS weren't aiming for most powerful gaming doo dad.

It doesn't stop the PS4 (and imho, though people with loud units can fairly disagree) and PS4 Pro being good value for their respective price tags.

I don't believe the Series X is 'unbalanced' or what have you, mind. Looks like a great piece of hardware. But I don't doubt that the PS5 is going to give you a great final on screen (and I guess, out of your audio speaker) final result. I'll be shocked if it isn't cheaper than the SX. And I'd bet on Sony to make the more powerful system if build costs were equal.

But they won't be, and the SX looks to be the system for people that want the best multiplat experience. As it should be. Sony are still going to make some fantastic looking exclusives that most everyone is going to want to play on this hardware, just as they always have. PS2 and PS4 Pro didn't need to be the most powerful systems around to deliver on that. If I'm a Sony only buyer, I honestly don't see anything here to be particularly upset about. Even when it comes to thermals and fan noise, sounds like they have prioritized that to a high degree, so I doubt we see loud units out there like with the PS4 Pro.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I think the biggest thing Sony First Party games will push that really blow people away, is in open world traversal and world density thanks to the SSD streaming speed. I'm guessing HZD2 has flight this time around, and Spider-Man 2 offers far more traversal velocity or speed without losing any graphical or asset detail.

I'm also thinking forced walking and other such scenes that are actually just masked loading, become less of a thing going forward, except when narrative or character building calls for it.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Honestly how could you come to the conclusion it would be a whole TF less, I'm guessing because github but surely you dont believe what you typed.
because of what cerny said during the conference. he said 2.0 ghz and 36 cu with clocks going up to 2.23 depending on the cpu load. i am literally going by what cerny said.

thats why the cpu clocks are also variable. they both take from each other.

and lastly, look at the gpu power consumption vs clock i posted. its not a proportional increase. going up to 2.23 ghz if they can somehow do it, is going to make this run really really hot. THATS how i came to that conclusion.

and if you know me at all, you would know i spent months if not years discrediting github leaks.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
I don't know why they have to get out in front of this. They delivered what the more realistic among us had assumed. It has a super fast SSD (like lightning fast really with theoretical kraken boost speeds that match the speed of Switch's RAM) but is otherwise weaker than XBox Series X. The only ones who got sideswiped are those who took Kleegamefan's word as gospel when Tom Warren already offered an explanation that explains why Kleegamefan's source was right from their POV(Microsoft hadn't sent out updated dev kits to everyone) but the source is still wrong objectively.

Sony prioritized I/O to enable them to make games they wanted to make. It's as simple as that. There's nothing wrong with that choice.
Did you even read what you're quoting? This is in regards to the poor communication with Backward Compatibility.
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Well, he said it was the 'typical' clock, and that it would be outliers that stress the system in a way that causes variation. That may turn out to be untrue, but we'll see.

Also, I'm not sure how you figure RT performance difference would be higher. Being in the CUs it would have the same perf delta as any other CU-bound work - i.e. the same difference as reflected in the Tflop figures at a given clock.
the AMD RT patent showed that the RT hardware was in the TMUs or texture mapping units. the more CUs you have, the more texture mapping units you will have,the more rt cores/dedicated hardware you will have.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
Did you even read what you're quoting? This is in regards to the poor communication with Backward Compatibility.

even that is reasonable.Sony is conservative with enabling high performance modes for games. They did it with PS4 Pro too.

I had skimmed and read boost and assumed they were talking about the gpu/cpu boosting mechanism.
 

xem

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,043
Also is there any benefits to my BC games ?
No. Nothing mentioned unless i missed it.
This is what i want to know. Its going to be a large reason i buy which console first. I guess it could be mitigated some if publishers are willing to quickly patch their games near launch. currently looking at games like Monster hunter world and sekiro which have unlocked framerates and would run at capped 60 on xbsx for instance going by what they are saying. Hope sony is doing this.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
even that is reasonable.Sony is conservative with enabling high performance modes for games. They did it with PS4 Pro too.

I had skimmed and read boost and assumed they were talking about the gpu/cpu boosting mechanism.
Sounds like you're just making excuses for Sony's poor communication and approach to BC.

Not providing full PS4 BC in 2020, when the majority of their games are being purchased digitally, is inexcusable. It's a fundamental expectation for consumers to bring their digital library with them into next gen.
 

cmdrshepard

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,557
Yikes at that 825GB SSD. I mean after the system is layered on we only have high 700's GB worth of space most likely. I thought MS was low enough at the 1TB mark. Has it been commented yet whether we can use external HDD for PS4 BC games like MS doing for X1/360 games.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
7gb/a ssd. He cant have said that, that's insane. Nothing comes close to that currently.

I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the presentation? He specifically talks about the kind of mass market SSD drives that will have that sort of speed, and that he expects them to be available by the end of the year.

Please no more 30fps

Nah. More 30fps please. Give me those incredible visuals and worlds.
 

SoSchwifty

Member
Jan 3, 2020
84
Commiting resources to 3D audio seems weird to me, yeah. It makes me think this was something Sony's audio division pushed to include.

Xbox also has 3d Audio and they both talked about it. So it wasn't just Sony. I think it is something that they got for free or cheap so why not? I doubt they poured a ton of money into it at the expense of something else.
 

Deleted member 27551

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
660
This sounds like pure PR talk though, "the old fixed frequence strategy"? This new "paradigm" has been in graphics card for almost a decade

Well since my ps3 yloded, my ps4 was super loud and my pro is still very loud and as AegonSnake pointed out, to reach that boost clock the gpu would take over 130watts, which has to go somewhere, they either A: Have a super great cooling solution B: Don't reach those boost clocks or C: are going with a loud console. It could still be A, but going by my previous experience with sony hardware I lack a bit of confidence here... <-I don't think this is such a hot take

And yes, I totally think below 10tf would have made a much worse impression on the general public, and I think putting the boost clock just in the vicinity to be above that would be worth having a louder console. Since the vast majority would not care about that. Now go laugh at my agenda to make the mighty ps5 look bad
Well an above post have said it's not just PR bollocks. I know from personal experience how loud the PS4 can get and console makers usually correct mistakes as with xbox series x.

It certainly is a hot take IMO that it would be a whole TF less and be so much louder when with what we have heard they have been focusing a few more dollars than usual on cooling. I do not care about which is better or more powerful I'm in a position to get them all and I've mainy been an xbox gamer this gen due to how good the 1x is.

So toss your fanboy back hand comments out the window. The fact is what you say makes ZERO sense and something you have said has already been disproven by a post above.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
7gb/a ssd. He cant have said that, that's insane. Nothing comes close to that currently.

Sorry, I went back to clarify what he said.

They need to be 'a little bit' faster than the PS5 SSD to compensate for some extra overhead in interfacing between a standard drive and the PS5 IO controller for extra priorities supported in PS5. He didn't give a specific number, I don't think, but said he expects drives to emerge at the end of the year that saturate PCi 4, 7GB/s. He said current m2 samples they tested come in around 4-5GB/s, i.e. would not cut it.
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,089
Yikes at that 825GB SSD. I mean after the system is layered on we only have high 700's GB worth of space most likely. I thought MS was low enough at the 1TB mark. Has it been commented yet whether we can use external HDD for PS4 BC games like MS doing for X1/360 games.
Yes, you can use external HDD for PS4 games.
 

SPDIF

Member
Oct 27, 2017
359
The only ones who got sideswiped are those who took Kleegamefan's word as gospel when Tom Warren already offered an explanation that explains why Kleegamefan's source was right from their POV(Microsoft hadn't sent out updated dev kits to everyone) but the source is still wrong objectively.
I don't think that makes much sense considering Klee apparently knew that the XSX was 12TF and yet still doubled-down on the PS5 apparently being more powerful.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
the AMD RT patent showed that the RT hardware was in the TMUs or texture mapping units. the more CUs you have, the more texture mapping units you will have,the more rt cores/dedicated hardware you will have.

Yes, but they all scale with clock also. The performance difference of those units isn't any different than the ALU difference, which is not 50%, because of the clock difference. It's 17-30% or whatever, depending on clock.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,700
Tokyo
I am trying to figure out why 825GB, that is such an odd number. So how much should we assume to have for actual games? 700? Less?
Looks like we will all need to hope someone makes that insanely fast SSD by years end otherwise we will not be able to put many games on the PS5 if Modern Warfare is anything to go by.
 

Oghuz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,897
The specs are fine for me. I didn't mind the difference with PS4 Pro and Xbox One X and I definitely won't mind this (smaller) difference.

My concern is the cooling/noise. I really wish Sony would show off the damn console already. Noise like the PS4 Pro would genuinely be a dealbreaker for me.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,513
12.15/9.21 = 31.9%.

Dont fall for the 10.2 tflops number. it will almost never happen. Zen 2 CPU consumes far less power than the gpu. the smaller cut down version of the cpu here consumes as low as 20w. even if by some miracle devs are able to shutdown the entire cpu (Which will never ever happen) the 20w increase will not allow them to hit the 2.23 ghz clockspeed anyway.

its one of those theoretical tflops numbers that the gpu CAN hit but lets face it, it will never hit.

36 CU at 2.0 ghz is what you are getting and thats 9.2 tflops. Expect 30% resolution less than xbox series x games. and then there is RT which according to AMD patents sits in the CUs. i think RT games might have a 50% resolution difference at the end of the day. similar to the 900p vs 1080p resolution this gen.

Cerny clearly stated otherwise. So please spread your misinformation more.