PlayStation 5 Specs Revealed by EuroGamer (See Threadmarks)

wachie · Mar 18, 2020

People need to calm down. :)

We will need to get block diagrams of both GPUs to even make a fair comparison. Like for example, the PS4 APU was more custom than the Xbox One as it had some customizations that were beyond that architecture, which AMD brought to the PC GPU, a generation later. Xbox may have more customizations or PS5 may, we dont know. So let's just wait until then and let the devs speak out on what they think.

Zyae · Mar 18, 2020

OneBadMutha said:
Based on what John from DF is saying:

Playstation exclusives are open to new types of game design due to ridiculous IO speeds

Multiplats should be better on Series X outside of load times

Basically Xbox is the better multiplat machine while Sony's 1st party devs will do crazy shit in their open world games. Sounds familiar.

Yes but you also have to consider that no one really knows how advantageous the ridiculous SSD speeds are compared to the negative of a much smaller memory bandwidth and memory speeds. Developers should be able to utilize the faster SSD to some degree but if you take two developers of equal "skill" when it comes to graphics and optimization, the XSX is simply the more powerful piece of hardware anyway you cut it.

SunBroDave · Mar 18, 2020

Naga said:

Now that is curious

Hate · Mar 18, 2020

It's not incomprehensible to people here because we are enthusiasts and have at least some capacity to understand the terms used but for the average consumer they won't understand much. It's not so much as IQ but familiarity to the terms and understanding how it correlates to what we might get. Even then we are confused to a lot of these discussions not to mention the general consumer.

Nostradamus · Mar 18, 2020

wowbaggerBR said:
I know the SSD is amazing and all, but in the end of the day, multiplat titles will probably just aim to the Xbox solution. So what? The PS5 loads the game 2 seconds faster, but outputs worse graphical fidelity and resolution? Maybe lower FPS as well? Great! I'm sure people will gonna do loads of stuff with those extra seconds on their lifes while wondering why the new COD, Battlefied or AC runs better on the Xbox.

I know they had different goals and that's what I find baffling, after the PS4 being a straight forward piece of hardware.

Maybe they simply tried to design around the $399 price, and that's fair enough. But if that's your main objective, you should just start the presentation with this: it'll cost $399, so people at least temper their spectations.

Or maybe they really wanted to develop a component that will guarantee first party titles being superior no matter the price point.

It's true that unoptimized third party titles will look inferior, although I'm sure big publishers will try utilizing the SSD as well.

People need to understand that Sony has a very different user base than MS's even though they are both considered "hardcore". Sony probably thinks that their customers wouldn't like a 2 console solution while also being more price sensitive (since Sony relies on many not as wealthy markets as well). As a result, they looked for a differentiating factor that can be used as a marketing tool and limits costs to R&D and not BOM.

Basically, they designed a console than can produce games that can't run on a competing platform no matter the power (exaggerating for emphasis).

Betelgeuse · Mar 18, 2020

Naga said:
Some more takes from John.

Nm.

Firima · Mar 18, 2020

APZonerunner said:
The Xbox Series X is hands-down the more powerful machine, but it is seemingly a more simplistic approach - lots of brute power. The PS5 is the 'weaker' of the two, but has been developed with lots of systems and tricks designed to allow devs to squeeze more out of it. Or at least, that's how it seems so far.

This sounds like the PS4 vs the Xbox One tbh; PS4 focused on power while Xbox One had a weird little solution that would allow devs to do more with less..which they often did not. We'll see how multiplatform developers prioritize Sony's unique properties to deliver their product.

VeePs · Mar 18, 2020

Jarmel said:
maybe Microsoft took them by surprise.

tomwarren was right?

gofreak · Mar 18, 2020

PlanetSmasher said:
No multiplatform developer is going to go out of their way to take advantage of a feature only one platform has. We know this. Lowest-common-denominator development has been a thing forever.

IO performance can affect things 'transparently', without a code change, where IO speed actually becoes a bound on framerate. Or with minor tweaks to your streaming buffers it could yield benefit for visuals or framerate. For data streaming, and the visual or performance impacts of that, it's about as easily scaleable as resolution. You don't have to 'design your game from scratch' for a given storage bandwidth to reduce asset-streaming related issues with higher bandwidth.

So no, I think the idea it is useless for multiplats will be proven false - where a multiplat does lean in on data streaming a lot, to an extent that stretches SSDs even going forward.

Cripterion · Mar 18, 2020

It's alright, might wait for PS5 pro.

Oghuz · Mar 18, 2020

Jarmel said:
Yep sounds about right. The SSD thing won't matter for anything except PS5 exclusives. This feels like a misstep on Sony's part or maybe Microsoft took them by surprise.

Is it really a misstep when the PS4 exclusives have been a major part of the succes of the console? I don't think so. Sony is massively improving the one area they were already the best at.

Phonzo · Mar 18, 2020

V0ltg said:
Going by your answer, I suppose the PS5 doesn't have the feature.
Uhh...

Until they announce they do.

Deleted member 20297 · Mar 18, 2020

H.Cornerstone said:
Yeah I agree, I get that this was supposed to be a GDC talk but just releasing it to the masses like this was a huge mistake.

Today I learned people attending GDC need an eli5 on general tech.

gofreak · Mar 18, 2020

neoak said:
You're right, they will load maybe 1 second faster on PS5.

They just will have higher performance on XSEX

Wasn't referring to loadtime.

Convasse · Mar 18, 2020

Kiekura said:
I didn't say tjere isn't difference. I said there isn't PS4 and Xbox One difference.

Ehh, that's debatable.

PS4 (launch) has 18 compute units, Xbox One (launch) has 12 compute units.
That's a 150% compute advantage for PS4, which was never overcome.
PS5 (launch) has 36 compute units, XSX (launch) has 52 compute units.
That's a 144% compute advantage for XSX.

The situations are comparable.

Deleted member 27551 · Mar 18, 2020

gofreak said:
But that's simply false.

This

LebGuns · Mar 18, 2020

SunBroDave said:
Now that is curious

Cerny literally said and showed in a slide RDNA2

Iwao · Mar 18, 2020

neoak said:
If you honestly believe this, I got a bridge to sell you

Believe what exactly?

wowbaggerBR said:
The real question is: will multiplats benefit from all that speed or just aim to the more common place Xbox solution?

I think only first party titles will really benefit from it.

Callibretto said:
I mean sure the SSD speed can influence gamedesign, but multiplatform game will still need to run on Xbox so they can't rely on the SSD Speed...
1st party exclusive Sony games will be nuts though

Zyae said:
Third party developers are not going to alter the way they design and load game worlds to conform to a faster SSD when they can just pass everything through the memory bandwidth as usual. XSX has a significantly faster memory bandwidth and has its own tools to let developers play with settings (SMT option on the CPU).

I guess we can only wait and see on that front. The hardware is a literal game changer so who knows how developers and publishers will set aside resources and prioritise something that is unprecedented. Who knows what kind of fairy dust Cerny sprinkled on these folks when he visited them.

neoak said:
LOL

You bought into the hype for the one thing that is "better".

Did Digital Foundry experts also buy into the hype?

GymWolf86 said:
call me skeptical but i'm gonna wait for some other feedback before even thinking of being more happy for a speedier ssd than a more powerfull cpu\gpu...
sorry if i sound harsh but ps5 is the only console i need and i'm forced to buy but sony cheapen up and fucked up greatly this time because some people can't pay more than 400 dollars for a machine that you use and abuse for 6-7 years.

I think when you actually see the games $399 gets you, you won't give a shit. It's always been the case that raw specs don't tell the whole story either so it's going to be a while until we get a good look for ourselves and how all of this adds up.

neoak · Mar 18, 2020

Rumpestump said:
What are you even talking about? SSD slow down? You mean cpu and gpu?

No no.

All SSDs throttle due to heat affecting the NAND performance. Also, controllers can get hot, so they slow down to not die.

That's why MS went with the carts, they are literally heatsink with a sustained speed at the worst case scenario thermally.

McScroggz · Mar 18, 2020

Florin4k4 said:
same way that a car with 700hp can get beat (or matched) by a 600hp car. Or one is Faster down a straight and the other corners better

It seems like most are focusing on the straight line speed of these consoles. I have absolutely no idea if that's more realistic to compare these consoles, or how much more of Sony's "handling" makes these consoles comparable.

Kiekura · Mar 18, 2020

neoak said:
Dude, literally Turbo for laptops work like that. Intel Turbo also has PL1 and PL2 clocks. PL stands for Power Level, as in power consumption. Not thermals.

You can bypass PL2 to have unlimited Turbo time so it doesn't hard stop at 45W for example.

Who should i believe. You or someone from Digital Foundry?

Deleted member 1726 · Mar 18, 2020

OneBadMutha said:
Based on what John from DF is saying:

Playstation exclusives are open to new types of game design due to ridiculous IO speeds

Multiplats should be better on Series X outside of load times

Basically Xbox is the better multiplat machine while Sony's 1st party devs will do crazy shit in their open world games. Sounds familiar.

sounds like damage control IMHO. EG and Sony know full well how these numbers are pulled apart on specialist forums by die hard fans in either side and can be the basis of arguments for years.

You don't want another generation of this shit going on for years.

Oticon · Mar 18, 2020

McScroggz said:
This is one of the many things I understood vaguely as a concept but not technically. Nor do I know of how he described it was PR speak. Basically I got that 36 cores run like 52 PS4 cores. What I don't know is if the XSX 52 cores run like 52 "PS4" cores or if they are more efficient in a way that is similarly a higher practical number.

The TF number is a better way to compare the GPUs since their architecture is the same and TFs take into account the CUs and clockspeed. The XSX has more CUs but lower clockspeeds while the PS5 have less CUs but much higher clockspeeds.

I guess if I had to simplify it it's like the PS5 has 36 workers but are working really fast compared to XSX 52 workers but they are working slower. Overall the difference between the 2 consoles is somewhere around 15-20% in favor of XSX.

xir · Mar 18, 2020

yo can we assume hdmi 2.1 with all vrr goodies?

Eoin · Mar 18, 2020

V0ltg said:
Does the PS5 have the "multiple games suspended mode"? You know, the secretly best feature of the xbox sex...

Since it wasn't mentioned, right now I'd guess probably not. It doesn't seem like it would be an impossible thing to add later, though.

zombiejames said:
Incomprehensible? I thought it was pretty clear.

Most people would have found that conference impenetrable.

That's fine, for a developer-oriented talk, but unfortunately circumstances have arranged themselves so that this was the first video of any kind relating to the PS5, and therefore for the majority of interested gamers this will be their introduction to the system - an hour-long talk about the intricacies of storage bandwidth, ray-tracing and 3D audio.

I understand Sony's plans have probably been mangled by events far outside their control, but this really should not have been the first thing the world got to hear and see about the PS5.

wachie · Mar 18, 2020

LebGuns said:
Cerny literally said and showed in a slide RDNA2

At this point, even Darkx is falling for this crap.

freetacos · Mar 18, 2020

I'm most bummed about the backwards compatibility aspect (at least initially). It's not even "most" PS4 games, it's the "top 100" PS4 games

Observable · Mar 18, 2020

mario_O said:
it is fake news. just watch the cerny video. it will maintain 2.23 most of the time.

I really don't want to get into these types of discussions, but as someone with a marketing background I noticed the statement was worded in a certain way.

If you listen he says something along the lines of 'I expect the frequency to be at this speed or close to most it of the time'. This doesn't quite exclude the possibility of the GPU running at 2.0ghz most of the time. On a scale of zero to 2.23ghz, 2ghz could be considered quite close to the 2.23ghz.

As a side note, I'm finding the boost speed part of this very interesting because he mentioned it will be deterministic, meaning that developers will be able to test this reliably. On PC these boost speeds however do rely heavily on temperature, and I'm not sure I understand how temperature won't influence this scenario. My friends keep their PS4's in closed cabinets, meaning they get quite hot pretty quickly. Does it just mean that their cooling solution provides enough overhead to allow for these boosts in any situation?

Godzilla24 · Mar 18, 2020

VeePs said:
tomwarren was right?

Yeah he came through. Was clutch.

DrDeckard · Mar 18, 2020

xir said:
yo can we assume hdmi 2.1 with all vrr goodies?

good point, it was never mentioned. has to be though.

tutomos · Mar 18, 2020

Developers will like it a lot.

RedSparrows · Mar 18, 2020

Forgive my lack of imagination, but after a certain point, what is the return on ever higher storage speeds? I mean, if, after an (ever shorter) initial load we can play with a giant open world with minimal obvious loading already, what data does a dev need to throw at the player to properly exploit such speed? What can they throw at the player that's new but also actually playable, rather than being so fast or overwhelming it's unplayable?

'Load times' clearly aren't the main purpose here. Nor do I buy 'gamechanger' outright (enter my lack of imagination): we already have paper and pencil, the fundamental design tools, and games are still wearing familiar grooves all the same.

Jonnax · Mar 18, 2020

Fisty said:
Probably usable space, I assume XSX will be about the same

No, he said that they used 12 channels instead of 8 with their SSD. It's why you see 280gb SSDs as well as 120gb SSDs.
The usable space is going to be less.

Tiago Rodrigues · Mar 18, 2020

I am actually curious to see how gaming design could change for the PS5 honestly. Speaking about exclusives now only.

Yerffej · Mar 18, 2020

Daffy Duck said:
sounds like damage control IMHO. EG and Sony know full well how these numbers are pulled apart on specialist forums by die hard fans in either side and can be the basis of arguments for years.

In reality I bet it plays out exactly what you quoted tho. Multiplayer and BC among other things are why I'm going for X first. But I'm always excited by Sony first party. They'll bring it.

Silvergun-Blue · Mar 18, 2020

neoak said:
99 percent arent technical savy

I assume most of the people watching a technical "deep dive" are going to have a decent acquaintance with basic tech aspects. There was some genuinely interesting stuff in there.
But reading here, it seems most people just want to quote a bigger number at one another.

GameAddict411 · Mar 18, 2020

I do agree it was a bad move to have this conference before an official release from Sony with game footage. I think this should have a secondary conference. I think that's why the average joe that tuned in was overwhelmed with too many technical details. The fact that Cerny was talking about transfer function and Fast Fourier Transform are things that are discussed Senior Year in Electrical Engineering.

neoak · Mar 18, 2020

Kiekura said:
Who should i believe. You or someone from Digital Foundry?

They are absolutely correct if they are comparing to desktop chips. Desktops are thermally constrained in general.

Deleted member 43 · Mar 18, 2020

ducktape said:
How'd you come to that conclusion? Did you miss the presentation? You clearly did. The PS5's frequency speeds are so insane that the teraflops talk is now embarrassing. PS5 is going to be more "powerful" in the long run.

No.

MegaXZero · Mar 18, 2020

ryan299 said:

Yeah. Their messaging is not the best with this.

xir · Mar 18, 2020

DrDeckard said:
good point, it was never mentioned. has to be though.

think it's a consumer level thing, so understanmd it not being in the cerny talk, but.... those QOL approvments in hdmi 2.1 are really really good, right?

looking to get a new tv this year and want to future proof without breaking the bank

rokkerkory · Mar 18, 2020

Crazy speeds for the GPU... i hope the system is designed to be quiet.

gofreak · Mar 18, 2020

Eoin said:
Since it wasn't mentioned, right now I'd guess probably not.

This wasn't a user experience/OS talk. The only question about multiple suspended sessions is how much SSD space you want to use - I've little doubt PS5 will do the same.

Deleted member 50658 · Mar 18, 2020

neoak said:
No no.

All SSDs throttle due to heat affecting the NAND performance. Also, controllers can get hot, so they slow down to not die.

That's why MS went with the carts, they are literally heatsink with a sustained speed at the worst case scenario thermally.

And where did Cerny say that the SSD in the PS5 slows down?

Daebo · Mar 18, 2020

additionally, with SSD and third parties, PC is still around which should be the lowest common spec. I think sony 1P will do wonders, but as for 3rd parties I think series x will do better.

Nostradamus · Mar 18, 2020

neoak said:
They went with 12 channels vs 8 channels on most PC SSDs now.

But he didn't talk about the I/O use by the CPU like MS did. Nor about "sustained" performance because ALL SSDs lose performance due to temperature.

With the Turbo clocks talk, I doubt the 5.5 is sustained.

Well the same applies to the Series X's SSD speed though. It's comparable. Cerny also talked about lifting additional bottlenecks till you reach actual in game performance improvement. I don't understand the very technical stuff but it appears to lead to a clear benefit.

Albert Penello · Mar 18, 2020

We clearly know there is some sort of tradeoff, otherwise it wouldn't be worth mentioning. If you really thought that 99% of the time both CPU and GPU would be running full speed, it wouldn't even be a bullet point.

Clearly, there is a tradeoff between CPU and GPU to get to 2.3 since there was an entire section dedicated to it.

The question is around things like "how often" and "how much" these tradeoffs create.

In the end, Sony can claim 10.2 TFLOPS, which is a good marketing bullet for them.

The last piece of the puzzle is price, really.

ryan299 · Mar 18, 2020

SunBroDave said:
Perhaps it was Sony's mistake to not treat this as such, but what they showed was certainly not intended to be a marketing opportunity targeted at the general consumer

yup. It was meant for GDC, but given the current situation in the world and nothing real for consumers this was a mistake.

neoak · Mar 18, 2020

Rumpestump said:
And where did Cerny say that the SSD in the PS5 slows down?

Did he say sustained? Most of the stuff was "boost" or top raw numbers.

So unless the thing is heavily cooled, it isn't sustained.

Not saying it is gonna be slower on SSD than XSEX though, just that it won't likely stay at 5.5 all the time.

Hey Please · Mar 18, 2020

It's interesting how that age old now deleted tweet by Benji (IIRC) about the dev kits being 12.9TF (most definitely Vega) make all the more sense- 12.9/1.25 = 10.32.

Hah.

PlayStation 5 Specs Revealed by EuroGamer (See Threadmarks)

Prophet of Truth

Prophet of Truth

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

Prophet of Regret

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Prophet of Regret

Account closed at user request

One Winged Slayer