Well, if this article (and other articles like it) is wrong, I would expect Sony to make a clarifying statement ASAP to keep one of the major features of their new machine from being misreported. Why haven't they?
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PlayStation 4 Backwards Compatability for PS5 won't be 100% at launch, PS5 too fast for some titles, tweaks and testing on game-by-game basis
- Thread starter vestan
- Start date
People said the same thing about ray tracing last year.
Sony just seems to want to do it's own thing and talk when they want to.
same thought. Why go such a big round saying things if its near full PS4 library?
So, what were those regression tests on Oberon in the Ghithub that had a 800mhz clock 18 active CUs (PS4) and 911mhz with 36 actice CUs (PS4 Pro)...? 😉
The fact that
This. Instead of giving information they confused everyone (regarding BC).
That's because it's pretty clear for everyone else, except some of you guys. Sony would have "clarified" their statement if it wasn't the case.
This is such a huge disappointment to me. I don't mind the less optimal specs (I guess they'll make a Pro at some point?), but the backwards compatibility thing is such a huge bummer for me. Sony has such a huge legacy of classic games that it's frustrating to see them abandon PS1 to PS2 to PS3 like this. :(
That's really disappointing. There are so many PS2 and PS3 games that have not and will not ever get remastered. Maybe I should just track down the Xbox / 360 versions, 'cause at least the new Xbox will be able to play them.
I never expected that they would support PS1/2/3 tbh. It would be great if they had some way of purchasing old games like in PS3 but it clearly seems that Sony's current policies don't go in that direction. MS has now a pretty good record on that, but truth is there are many games from Xbox OG/Xbox 360 era that are still missing.
In the end of the day, if you care about BC the best way to go is PC.
I saw someone from PushSquare said they reached out to Sony yesterday and haven't heard anything yet, but simply having headlines that say 100 games playable at launch should be the most powerful form of reaching out if it's not true.
I'm willing to give Sony a bit of a break in responding due to all the crap going on, but Sony is starting to be a bit much.
Isn't this a personal assumption? Not saying it is even remotely likely, especially not physical BC but I haven't seen them flat out say anything in regards to for example our digital last gen PS1 and PS2 games. No major technological hurdles there.
IMO there's no reason not to support ps1. They made the classic and even used RetroArch. It should be super easy on PS5, I can get no supporting CD I guess, but I'm pretty sure standard UHD drives play them. At least digital rereleases like on ps3 would work
Yes people have reached out and there has been no response yet:
"Yeah, contacted them first thing this morning and haven't heard back."
It appears no one at Xbox has actually promised every XB1 game will be allowed to boot on Series X yet
Yeah, contacted them first thing this morning and haven't heard back.www.resetera.com
Wow. Regardless of what the anwer is, not getting back to journalist inquiries on a conundrum like this is just awful.
Best case scenario is Sony is crafting some kind of explanation of the gritty details of the BC.
Worst case is they're just ignoring everything.
Jason Schreier said when asking his contacts, they pointed to it not being a thing.
Wasn't that the quote about them laughing at him? Pretty sure that was in reference to full, disc-based PS1, PS2 and PS3 BC. Partial is a different thing, especially with digital software already on PSN like the PS1 and PS2 games you could buy from the PS3 digital storefront. No one would laugh at the suggestion of that being at least a possibility. Not saying it's likely, just not impossible.
Edit: yeah it was in reference to complete BC:
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Yeah but how long does crafting an explanation take? It's been almost 2 days and it's a fairly simple question.
Is physical BC a thing for PS4 games? Most of my PS4 exclusive I have on physical media (cheaper and collectors editions).
have they mentioned how their version of "smart delivery " works? Is that even a thing Sony is offering or do they expect us to rebuy these titles?
have they mentioned how their version of "smart delivery " works? Is that even a thing Sony is offering or do they expect us to rebuy these titles?
Physical media will work.
They haven't talked about smart delivery or anything similar.
What happened to "literally best case scenario ", and "in reality"? You sounded so sure of yourself.
That's good news! Hopefully they clarify everything around BC soon. If it is only 100 games they likely aren't releasing that list anytime soon
I don't think silence rules out lack of BC for PS 1 through 3. The focus was on PS4, that's all. 1-3 could be a surprise for later.
It doesn't. They were just talking about the hardware decisions.
1-3 would require software emulation.
I think we will probably only get a very limited form of it, similar to PS2 on PS4 games. Basically only digital BC for select titles.
At least that's the only thing I'm going to expect.
Cerny says "We're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on the PlayStation 5". Weird choice of words if he was neglecting the legacy modes.
I wouldn't take an avatar bet when I agree with the person I'd be betting against. Also, I recently lost an avatar bet and I'm currently waiting on the punishment lol.
Everybody at Sony laughing at the notion and jschreier thinking it's nonsense isn't a good sign. I'd still love to know why it's nonsense for Sony to support their legacy while MS goes the extra mile to do exactly that, but everyone's going nuts about the specs now so it's probably not a good time to ask.
I think the rumor is nonsense, not the idea. It'd be a killer feature if it existed (which is why it made for such a viral rumor).
Well the limited PS2 games available to play on PS4 wasn't known from the beginning either. I think if people are going to make assumptions, then the most practical assumption is that Sony is focusing primarily on making sure the core PS5 features work well and BC stuff like playing PS1 games is not a top priority. It's not like the features a console launches with are the only features the console will ever have.
Sent an email early yesterday, no response yet.
Anyway, I'm keeping the stupid dream for PS1, PS2, and PS3 backward compatibility alive. This week's event was developer-focused, and even the PS4 backward compatibility talk was aimed at developers, considering PS4 games are still in development. There would've been no reason to mention PS1, PS2, and PS3 backward compatibility if it exists. I'm hoping they're saving it for a "by the way" moment of whenever they decide to actually reveal this machine.
Seriously, no.
"Running PS4 titles at boosted frequencies is an added complexity, and the boost is truly massive this time around, and some game code just can't handle it. Testing has to be done on a title-by-title basis"
"We took a look at top-100 PS4 titles by playing time and we expect almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5"
Why on earth would you use the words "playable at launch" if every game worked out of the box? Never mind that the blogpost talks about expanding coverage over time. that many sites are reporting it as such and Sony hasn't really issue any kind of correction.
Again, literally best case scenario based on the current information.
The idea that less than a hundred PS4 games will be compatible doesn't square with the talk of hardware that's engineered for the purpose of backwards compatibility. Sounds like an insane waste of time and effort to me.
I took the "top-100"-figure to be a sample size meant to illustrate that they expect the PS5 to run the majority of PS4 games without a hitch, while the remaining few may require additional tweaks in order to work properly.
I took the "top-100"-figure to be a sample size meant to illustrate that they expect the PS5 to run the majority of PS4 games without a hitch, while the remaining few may require additional tweaks in order to work properly.
I don't see why they wouldn't have put it in the graph for BC in general if it was happening.
People really shouldn't expect that BC, especially not PS3 (that will be through PS Now), and especially not given how they handled it on PS4.
The "playable at launch" and "expanding coverage over time" really do not sit well with this interpretation.
Great, so make that avatar bet! After all, 100 titles at launch is the best case scenario.
we 'laughed' (with tears) not because we don't want it to happen...
we 'laughed' (with tears) because going by historical precedence and current trajectory, the prospect of that happening is akin to finding aliens in area 51.
I want to be wrong...really....this is something i will eat a bucket of crow for but pragmatically speaking, sony's ain't caring about legacy bc and not a single cent will be spent on making it work on the PS5. It's just so far down their list of priorities that i don't think it is even ever in their list of 'to do' list.
Think we need to move on from the 'wishful thinking' phase.
Sure it does.
The issue is we don't know how they're working to expand coverage.
When they talk about most of the 100 games working, for example let's say it's 80% of the top 100. From those tests, they might estimate that around 80% of the overall games would work.
In this case expanding coverage would be from 80% day 1 to 100% instead of the 2.5% day 1 to 100% that a lot of people are thinking.
Ah, thanks for the response. Between that and an earlier tweet where you were talking about possibly the same rumor, I honestly got the impression you thought legacy BC in general was nonsense, sorry about that. I totally agree that rumor in particular was nonsense; the machine learning upscaling engine was bonkers since it takes hours to upscale texture on a high-end video card now from what I understand.
On this topic, I've noticed Sony hasn't really talked much about PS1 BC on the PS4 outside of the infamous (and relatively recent) Jim Ryan quote. I'd love to see someone dig into that a bit since I noticed the PS4 manual says it has a CD frequency laser but can't read CDs, and I have to wonder what the story is behind that.
So we're potentially looking at 100 games on day 1. All the CODs, Fortnite, Fifas and Rocket League are likely in that 100.
My hope is that GT Sport and the other first party games are included in that. And MGSV. If this is the case, I'm good to go.
My hope is that GT Sport and the other first party games are included in that. And MGSV. If this is the case, I'm good to go.
Once again:
Unveiling New Details of PlayStation 5: Hardware Technical Specs [UPDATED]
Watch live for a deep dive into PS5's system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.
blog.us.playstation.com
Lastly, we're excited to confirm that the backwards compatibility features are working well. We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles as ranked by play time, and we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5. With more than 4000 games published on PS4, we will continue the testing process and expand backwards compatibility coverage over time.
If most of the PS4 games were working at launch you do not use this kind of language, you state it very clearly. And I mean, look, quite a few sites have already reported that at most 100 titles will be available at launch. And Sony still hasn't issue any clarification. You can choose to explain that away by Sony totally screwing their communication/messaging, but to me it's a bit of an Occam's Razor situation.
I think most of the f2p will fill that list easily, as well as GTA, Red Dead Redemption 2, and some Sony first party games. And then the popular AAA titles to round the sub-100 titles by launch.
I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm really happy MS has done such a good job with their preservation efforts that it seems it's now a bigger deal for people to have a good BC feature in new consoles, and Sony is now catching a lot heat due to their recent lackluster and confusing announcements in this regard. MS raised the bar for this, and Sony might reevaluate their whole stance on the idea as the PS5's lifespan continues if people continue to raise a stink about it. Not guaranteed of course, but the BC discourse in general certainly seems to be bigger now than it was at the start of last gen, and a lot of that is due to MS.
Once again:
Unveiling New Details of PlayStation 5: Hardware Technical Specs [UPDATED]
Watch live for a deep dive into PS5's system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.
Lastly, we're excited to confirm that the backwards compatibility features are working well. We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles as ranked by play time, and we're expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch on PS5. With more than 4000 games published on PS4, we will continue the testing process and expand backwards compatibility coverage over time.
If most of the PS4 games were working at launch you do not use this kind of language, you state it very clearly. And I mean, look, quite a few sites have already reported that at most 100 titles will be available at launch. And Sony still hasn't issue any clarification. You can choose to explain that away by Sony totally screwing their communication/messaging, but to me it's a bit of an Occam's Razor situation.
The issue is they might not actually know how many games work.
Taking my example again, they might think that 80% of games work, but they are avoiding giving an exact number until they know more. Because they might find out only 70% of games work.
This is the optimistic explanation. The issue is, we don't know enough about how their emulation works.
This is assuming they are designing an emulation system which would require title by title testing to ensure everything works, but it wouldn't require any patches.
The pessimistic explanation is that their emulation system requires some kind of title by title patching of the games. In which case the 100 titles is all we are probably going to get day 1.
Both of these explanations lead to the same kind of wording by Cerny and the blog, but they end up with vastly different sets of playable titles.