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Oct 25, 2017
10,765
Toronto, ON
The salt in here is wild. He's upfront that this is his personal opinion and that the current environment is better for the consumer. He's just broadly nostalgic about when things were different and he had some quirky tech to get excited about. The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is embarrassing.
 

KCsoLucky

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,585
You bastards better stop dissing the PS3 Bayonetta port. It was decent after the install patch, and still better than almost all other games that gen(I 100%'d on 360, Switch and PS3.....)

Those washed out ass colors looked fine on my shit TV back then. *runs and hides*/SPOILER]
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,352
I think I understand what your issue is, you're starting from now and working back. what is now standardized was once exotic.
I suppose, but my ultimate point is to look at the games. Things like the PS2's processor being called the "Emotion Engine" or the PS3's "Cell" were fancy names, yes they were new at the time (obviously tech has to improve), but the end results in the games were linear as expected. The jump from PS1 facial animation to PS2 for example was huge thanks to the hardware, more memory, etc. Improvements to games that were to be expected. We're still getting shooters, open worlds, racing games, etc. And my point is that will happen all the same from PS4 to PS5, even though the jump in tech is nothing 'exotic'.

and in regards to motion controls I'm really at a loss. motion controls have never been more widely adopted than they are now.
I'm genuinely confused which huge market you're talking about. VR? Again, we're talking about the mainstream console market. Even if you take in all VR owners across the world, it's a small market overall.

Xbox doesn't even have inputs for motion control other than Kinect...and we know what happened there. The PSVR is a small segment of PS4 owners. The vast, vast majority of games played today are through a standard controller input or M/KB.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,436
Because they didn't take advantage of said features when they were there in the first place.
So because Platinum, the company consisting of several hundred people, didn't particularly push the Cell hard, he cannot, personally, have found the Cell processor interesting and neat. That's the hill we're dying on here.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
Yeah great point, Cloud gaming with PSnow, Streaming from twitch/youtube, Account sharing, Remote play.

Xbox even had a great feature like Snap, Which they got rid of.

Feature wise the gen has been fantastic, Hope it continues next gen.

Yep, spot on. And it's only going to get better next-gen.

Microsoft's achievement tracking is also a fantastic feature.
 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,372
Gimmick for gimmick's sake is frankly a waste of time and R and D. We can always put those gimmicks on periopherals like VR, Labo, etc. In the end devs probably won't use it anyway, Platinum themselves don't. It's an extra cost that I would like to be put in the console's power instead.

Also innovation doesn't need to be hardware only, they can be software base too unfortunately Platinum isn't a good studio technical-wise
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
The salt in here is wild. He's upfront that this is his personal opinion and that the current environment is better for the consumer. He's just broadly nostalgic about when things were different and he had some quirky tech to get excited about. The lack of reading comprehension in this thread is embarrassing.

Caging your words with a "personal opinion" disclaimer does not shield them from criticism when they are dumb or against the interests of the people hearing the opinion.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
What "points" need to be addressed? It's clear from the interview he's just talking about his personal feeling of missing the days when he as an engineer could get excited about seeing something really new and different.

From there, everybody's "points" have been completely unrelated to what he said. Platinum doesn't push the hardware anyways? He never said they did, or that bog standard x86-64 was in any way holding them back. The hardware looking like everything else is good for gamers? He never said it wasn't. Bayonetta ran like shit on the Cell? He never said it didn't.

Literally all he said was "things are a little ho-hum from a hardware perspective these days; custom hardware in past generation gave me fun engineering challenges in Ye Old Days". The horror.

You don't think any post in this thread that disagrees with him is relevant at all? I find that sort of notion incredulous.

I've seen posts on this page that are breaking down the innovations that have come in this generation alone. Sure, his point is pretty innocent all things considered, but people are allowed to disagree with it and mention why. Why else do we even have these discussions?

Quite a few posts across this topic are anything but sincere and it's transparent how much people would rather diss the company rather than addressing his "points" just because developer man isn't head over heels for their favorite company's next console.

So call the people out about their insincerity directly. Perhaps this is a personal flaw that I see this a lot, but this is a bit of an epidemic here on ERA, where posters constantly mention and disagree with a hivemind. It really makes finding new information and meaningful discussion harder than it needs to be.

For instance, right here in your post, you automatically attribute the reason for this insincerity, and I'm sure you aren't wrong about particular people. But it makes having a discussion with someone harder if you assume everyone that disagrees with you is arguing in bad faith when maybe there are other reasons they responded so strongly.

Anyway, I feel like a broken record on this issue and I'm sure people are rolling their eyes reading my self-righteous BS.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,436
Caging your words with a "personal opinion" disclaimer does not shield them from criticism when they are dumb or against the interests of the people hearing the opinion.
The sheer entitlement of being mad that an engineer personally got a sense of enjoyment out of working with novel hardware because it's "against your interests"
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
About as innovative as plugging a PC into a TV monitor

Exactly my point. The hardware is not innovative or unique at all, but the experience that Nintendo crafted using it certainly is. Anyone could have made the Switch in the past, but they didn't. The experience it provides is obviously beloved by a great number of people who would never settle for a gaming laptop and an HDMI cable to plug into their television, because that experience kind of sucks, or at the very least is largely different to the experience the Switch provides.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
Ah, so because they didn't port one game out of the what, five, six games on PS3 that they made means he's not allowed his opinion on consoles being different.

Nobody said it wasn't allowed, I think people are just suprised by such a comment from the boss of a company that didn't take advantage of any of those features this or last gen.
It happens every gen, both consoles have loads of cool features either hardware, software or ecosystem, but most of them don't get used outside of exlcusives.
I understand the notion that the newer machines are just more of the same, because they will be, but there was a specific comment about them not having custom hardware features which is the part I found odd.

Perhaps something is lost in translation, but as far as I'm aware the sole advantage of stadia is the fact it is faster and more powerful and you can "daisychain" multi servers together to make them even faster and more powerful and the fact that is is online only, perhaps allows for some interesting concepts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,678
Could say the same about Platinum games baby

tenor.gif
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I'm not sure why you're multiplying by 3, Microsoft has their games on PC.
As far as the rest of your statement, these games wouldn't exist if Nintendo and Sony didn't want to get people to buy into their platform. PC enthusiasts tend to miss that and think the exact same games would be funded if there weren't consoles.
Okay $800 + $2000 every 7 years, is that better? ;P
You know what I mean, the exclusivity thing is really annoying if you're just interested in all that gaming has to offer. Sometimes you get the best games on the weakest hardware, sometimes you get 1 single exclusive game you simply can't be without on one hardware, and you almost always get bad performance on these games if you're coming from the PC world. But you still can't be without those games. So you buy a box and a few games, then play the rest on your PC, then buy a new box and a few games, then the rest on PC, buy the upgrades too because the performance will finally improve, etc, rinse and repeat. :/
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
The sheer entitlement of being mad that an engineer personally got a sense of enjoyment out of working with novel hardware because it's "against your interests"

You've already had this pointed out to you, but it would be great if you could understand that disagreement does not always equal anger.

I would call my emotional reaction to his words as one of perplexion, not anger.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I read through the last page, legitimately who is outraged? The constant refrain on the Internet everywhere is to paint things that they don't agree with as 'being outraged', it's tiring, disingenuous and boring as hell. Can we stop and just address people's points in a sincere fashion?
Yeah this is where I'm at with it. To the point where I'm not convinced the people accusing others of outrage actually have read much of the thread and are just spewing this canned line to seem "above it all".

People are gonna disagree about ideas and how things should be. That's ok.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,436
You don't think any post in this thread that disagrees with him is relevant at all? I find that sort of notion incredulous.

I've seen posts on this page that are breaking down the innovations that have come in this generation alone. Sure, his point is pretty innocent all things considered, but people are allowed to disagree with it and mention why. Why else do we even have these discussions?
I've literally yet to see one because none of these posts are even disagreeing with him, because he never said "it was better for gamers back then". He said, in fact, the literal opposite "it's better for gamers now", before saying "but as an engineer I was enjoying the more novel stuff".

I mean, how do you even disagree with what he actually said? You can't, obviously, say "no actually Inaba you find yet another x86 processor more fun to geek out about", so no one in this thread is.

It's just a bunch of people posting strawman rebuttals to claims that were never made.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
I suppose, but my ultimate point is to look at the games. Things like the PS2's processor being called the "Emotion Engine" or the PS3's "Cell" were fancy names, yes they were new at the time (obviously tech has to improve), but the end results in the games were linear as expected. The jump from PS1 facial animation to PS2 for example was huge thanks to the hardware, more memory, etc. Improvements to games that were to be expected. We're still getting shooters, open worlds, racing games, etc. And my point is that will happen all the same from PS4 to PS5, even though the jump in tech is nothing 'exotic'.

sure I just think your post came off as particularly ignorant to the video game space pre-2000-ish in terms of how much innovation there was on the hardware side and even post-2000 you've got the touch/motion control stuff from 2004/2006 that changed the landscape for video games as a whole particularly in the mobile space. just curious stuff all around tbh.

I'm genuinely confused which huge market you're talking about. VR? Again, we're talking about the mainstream console market. Even if you take in all VR owners across the world, it's a small market overall.

Xbox doesn't even have inputs for motion control. The PSVR is a small segment of PS4 owners.

I'm talking about the entire video game industry
 

Carnby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,237
I just played RDR1 after finishing RDR2, and the improvement in graphics between the two is breath taking. If that's more of the same then I'm cool with it.
 

danhz

Member
Apr 20, 2018
3,238
Maybe this help them to release 2015 looking graphics games with good performance, not because optimization, if not because the machine has power enough.
 

Sparks

Senior Games Artist
Verified
Dec 10, 2018
2,879
Los Angeles
I agree with him. Also, he's not talking about gimmicks. He's talking about tech.

They don't really seem groundbreaking, especially if you have seen PC tech of late.
PC games wont have SSD requirements for a long time, so that alone makes the PS5/Scarlette much more attractive. Developing exclusively to a game that runs off an SSD is way different than working around traditional HDD.
 

Turbo Tu-Tone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,951
The last time Sony drew outside the lines, one of Platinum's best games ran like cheeks on their hardware. Sorry that he's disappointed, but better safe than sorry.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,436
You've already had this pointed out to you, but it would be great if you could understand that disagreement does not always equal anger.

I would call my emotional reaction to his words as one of perplexion, not anger.
I think it requires a profound sense of entitlement to be perplexed that a software engineer might enjoy programming hardware that you as a Gamer, personally, find inferior to other hardware.

I know a guy who get his kicks writing hypercard games for an old-school Mac Plus. Like, people have personal interests that are different than yours, dude. Ain't that perplexing.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,767
Nobody said it wasn't allowed, I think people are just suprised by such a comment from the boss of a company that didn't take advantage of any of those features this or last gen.
It happens every gen, both consoles have loads of cool features either hardware, software or ecosystem, but most of them don't get used outside of exlcusives.

Perhaps something is lost in translation, but as far as I'm aware the sole advantage of stadia is the fact it is faster and more powerful and you can "daisychain" multi servers together to make them even faster and more powerful and the fact that is is online only, perhaps allows for some interesting concepts.
Realistically I reckon the main point of interest with Stadia from a design perspective is being able to figure out ways to build games that can offset the many, many question marks and drawbacks you would get from having to make a game for a cloud-based platform. Whether or not it's more challenging or not than straight up making a game for a regular PC isn't something I'd know myself, but the questions that Stadia raises propose interesting hurdles for designers and producers to sort of get past.

Even if you approach the PS3 from the angle that the Cell was kind of shit, for it's time I reckon the challenge of having to wrap their heads around new architecture may be exciting. It may not necessarily be convenient, but I see the argument from a design perspective as to why that may be stimulating. Something like loading times for instance; which I imagine almost every developer had to think of ways across all generations to minimize one way or another, by finding unique solutions to store and load necessary info. It's brand new hardware with brand new rules, and even if the answer may end up being a cumbersome one moving forward, that doesn't mean that initial excitement was misplaced.

So going into the next gen, knowing that the architecture is basically the same and unified, yeah, from a pure specs front there's not much to chew on unless they come with some kind of new and exciting hook to it, like a new controller method or something. As it stands they're basically continuing off from where they are currently. That's not necessarily a bad thing for convenience's sake obviously, but convenience doesn't always translate to excitement. Plus, there's something to be said about how Platinum obviously isn't the size of Naughty Dog, so they won't necessarily benefit from the hardware change as much as other studios. The higher up the ladder you go, the more only a select few devs will be able to find that sheer horsepower liberating in a sense of doing things they were previously unable to do. For Platinum, I think the best we'll end up looking at is a resolution bump.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
I think it requires a profound sense of entitlement to be perplexed that a software engineer might enjoy programming hardware that you as a Gamer, personally, find inferior to other hardware.

Curious question. What's the point of hoping for or enjoy programming for exotic hardware when your games don't look or run good on existing consoles and PC builds?
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
Realistically I reckon the main point of interest with Stadia from a design perspective is being able to figure out ways to build games that can offset the many, many question marks and drawbacks you would get from having to make a game for a cloud-based platform. Whether or not it's more challenging or not than straight up making a game for a regular PC isn't something I'd know myself, but the questions that Stadia raises propose interesting hurdles for designers and producers to sort of get past.

Even if you approach the PS3 from the angle that the Cell was kind of shit, for it's time I reckon the challenge of having to wrap their heads around new architecture may be exciting. It may not necessarily be convenient, but I see the argument from a design perspective as to why that may be stimulating. Something like loading times for instance; which I imagine almost every developer had to think of ways across all generations to minimize one way or another. It's brand new hardware with brand new rules, and even if the answer may end up being a cumbersome one moving forward, that doesn't mean that initial excitement was misplaced.

So going into the next gen, knowing that the architecture is basically the same, yeah, from a pure specs front there's not much to chew on unless they come with some kind of new and exciting hook to it, like a new controller method or something. As it stands they're basically continuing off from where they are currently. That's not necessarily a bad thing for convenience's sake obviously, but convenience doesn't always translate to excitement. Plus, there's something to be said about how Platinum obviously isn't the size of Naughty Dog, so they won't necessarily benefit from the hardware change as much as other studios. The higher up the ladder you go, the more only a select few devs will be able to find that sheer horsepower liberating in a sense of doing things they were previously unable to do. For Platinum, I think the best we'll end up looking at is a resolution bump.

Yes, I certainly understand this point of view. Something new or different or challenging could be stimulating.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I've literally yet to see one because none of these posts are even disagreeing with him, because he never said "it was better for gamers back then". He said, in fact, the literal opposite "it's better for gamers now", before saying "but as an engineer I was enjoying the more novel stuff".

I mean, how do you even disagree with what he actually said? You can't, obviously, say "no actually Inaba you find yet another x86 processor more fun to geek out about", so no one in this thread is.

It's just a bunch of people posting strawman rebuttals to claims that were never made.

To be completely honest, this is where you lose me. You don't think any person in this entire thread has a cogent counterpoint to his thoughts on next gen consoles? For instance, I could mention statements from software engineers saying they have enjoyed the more standard infrastructure in consoles this generation. Sure his statement is obviously subjective and related to his own personal enjoyment, but it by no means is a definitive one. And I just struggle to see why certain people in this thread like yourself are taking it personally that people disagree with it.
 

SonicX_Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
469
Are games designed differently if they are created with streaming in mind versus traditional console hardware? I wish he could elaborate on the stuff that are only possible in stadia.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,765
Toronto, ON
Caging your words with a "personal opinion" disclaimer does not shield them from criticism when they are dumb or against the interests of the people hearing the opinion.

So if he says "I don't like fighting games, I'm not interested in playing them", that is up for criticism and dunking (let's face it, a good chunk of the negative responses in this thread are "lol Platinum games are the same, gotcha")? He has a personal perspective. He has an opinion about what he likes. He has a different opinion than you.

There's nothing dumb about what he said, and literally nothing about what he said or what his company will do moving forward will have any effect on anything that you do or to the "interests" of consumers.

And I just struggle to see why certain people in this thread like yourself are taking it personally that people disagree with it.

Not to speak for the user you quoted, but for me, I think it's that his opinion is mostly being framed as "wrong" instead of "OK, that's what he thinks, well, here's what I think."
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,436
Curious question. What's the point of asking for or enjoy programming for exotic hardware when your games don't look or run good on existing consoles and PC builds?
Because you as a developer...find it fun? Like you enjoy the challenge, and novelty of it, and how different it is from your day-to-day work? It's not, personally, my niche, but as a software engineer I completely get it
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Did it support higher resolutions and performance with the TV out? Did it support external controllers? Was it an elegant option? Just having the feature doesn't mean much if it wasn't a great and well done feature that was more or less looked over

It supported Dual Shock, yes. No to the others.
For sure it was elegant, a single cable. With an option to use a dock.
 
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