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zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
Excluding accessories and the DS series, it's really only been the Wii and Wii U that offered unique gimmicks that couldn't be done elsewhere.

That's not the point of my post. Too much word parsing going on again. I can take out the example and the sentiment stands on its own.

With that said, re: Nintendo you are wrong. It's not about "doing something that can't be done by anybody else". It's about dancing to the beat of one's own drum which Nintendo, for better and for worse has done since the days of NES -- - how many times have we have heard Nintendo is doomed - and yet still continues to thrive.
 

ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,722
So what? Building a PC is just not going to be in the cards for a lot of people. Having a curated experience with an Xbox for a reasonable price is still a very appealing option. There hasn't been a single Xbox system that could do more than a high-end PC at the time. It just comes down to what content is available and how easy the experience is for the players.


It's funny regarding PC, You get throw away comments like yeah " PC " but in the other thread you got people moaning there £1200 2080ti from last year is redundant now the super versions will be out and they want that instead. And the point Inaba was making was more about unique designs regarding tech and not customised versions of off the shelf components. All in all who cares, VR is where it's at.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,206
The funniest part is when people type long ass posts explaining why Inaba is wrong coz their favorite system got dissed. Like you coulda put that effort to just reading what Inaba said.

Inaba: "It's better for the consumer but I'm kinda nostalgic for when console internals were more customized and it was more interesting"

This thread: "More like your stupid idiot fucking face you ugly game moron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Are you telling me posters on Era didn't actually read the article and are just commenting based on the thread title ?
I AM SHOCKED... /s
 

Kingpin Rogers

HILF
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,459
Seems like he's touched a nerve in this thread haha. I agree with him, the more unique the better. PS5 and Scarlett are just gonna be underpowered pc's at the end of the day.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,807
He's not wrong it is more of the same. Them being mini game focused computers is kinda better for all parties involved though
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Inaba is just saying, in prior generations you used to have things unique to the console like the Cell Processor or other unique internals their competitors didn't have that made them different from a reconstructed PC. It likely is boring seeing how similar tech has gotten within the industry with the twins just taking PC parts and using it in their systems. He's nostalgic for when companies were trying new things unique to their systems, Google is trying that with Stadia which is a full streaming platform that uses Vulkan, whether that works out, we will see.

It doesn't make sense. Sure, maybe he's nostalgic for learning new arcane system architectures, but I fail to see how that has ever lead to better games. Seems like someone who runs a company that is focused on making fun and innovative action games should be overjoyed that he can do that in a more efficient way since quirky hardware is a thing of the past.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,748
Also I see Era is still hung up on the word gimmick as if it's being some sort of bad thing.

If we didn't have gimmicks, we wouldn't have had the Switch. Hell I'd argue VR is a gimmick and you can bet your ass that's going to be a big focus going into the upcoming gen.
 

badcrumble

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,730
Was going to come in here and say that, while I enjoy Platinum's games, it's not like they've ever pushed hardware super hard.

But I read what Inaba says and I get what he means. I disagree - I think that more transparent hardware can make for easier development and better games in the long run - but I understand why a programmer who geeks out over all-new problems to solve would be less excited by this stuff.
 

convo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,365
Breaking compatiblity is the least worthwhile shit in existence unless you want your games to stop existing outside the intended console. Wasting a generation on figuring shit out was the death of many small japanese devs and that should not repeat itself.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,891
What does specialized hardware actually provide other than absurd development costs (for the company developing it) and an initial lack of familiarity with how to develop games for it (for most developers)? What do the consumers receive in return? A very shoddy first year of games? I don't understand what he is pining for here...
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
I don't want the wheel reinvented. The last time we had that with the Wii, all I ended up with was a dust collector. The Wii U was a flop for a reason as well, it was an "advancement" that no one was really looking for.

Sometimes conventional wisdom exists for a reason. Make it easy to develop for and powerful enough that devs don't have to sacrifice their vision. Besides, I'll get my innovation through my PSVR and whatever successor that spawns.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,127
Sony made the CELL and got trashed by developers, Platinum couldn't even made Bayonetta run well on it and now he wants custom chips?
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
That's not the point of my post. Too much word parsing going on again. I can take out the example and the sentiment stands on its own.

With that said, re: Nintendo you are wrong. It's not about "doing something that can't be done by anybody else". It's about dancing to the beat of one's own drum which Nintendo, for better and for worse has done since the days of NES -- - how many times have we have heard Nintendo is doomed - and yet still continues to thrive.

If it's not about doing something that can't be done elsewhere, then what is the point of wanting exotic hardware, which seems to be what Inaba is saying? He just wants a harder time for his developers to port their work over?
 

DaveLong

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,199
nah Shinobi is right, and I'd rather get innovation in games before hardware. And before you say Nintendo, I don't want to put up their gimmicks to experience their games.
This is just as closed minded, though. Nintendo "gimmicks" are exactly what has pushed along the others to do new things. Analog sticks, motion controls, touch screens and touch functions... Sony and Microsoft have or had these things too. VR depends on a lot of what Nintendo was pioneering with motion.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,800
It's funny regarding PC, You get throw away comments like yeah " PC " but in the other thread you got people moaning there £1200 2080ti from last year is redundant now the super versions will be out and they want that instead. And the point Inaba was making was more about unique designs regarding tech and not customised versions of off the shelf components. All in all who cares, VR is where it's at.

All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't buy into the first-gen of RTX cards. My GTX 1080 from three years ago is still going strong at 1440p.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,748
Sony made the CELL and got trashed by developers, Platinum couldn't even made Bayonetta run well on it and now he wants custom chips?
Platinum didn't port Bayonetta, lol.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the hackjob of a PS3 port that Bayonetta got is why they ended up using PS3 as the lead development platform on their subsequent multiplat titles from that point on.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
Nothing has even been revealed yet other than the CPU/GPU architecture and fast loading times/SSD read speeds. What in the world got you excited for past consoles?
It being a xx bit system compared to the previous one. The promise of it being X times more powerful than the current iteration. The idea that we were going to see something done on the system we couldn't have seen before.

You know, like seeing Mario 64 running for the first time or seeing Tekken Tag.
 

KCsoLucky

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,585
Honestly only Nintendo was really known for this. Sony had the CD, DVD, and the Cell. That's it. Xbox had hard drives, Xbox live, and was a part of the modern controller design. That's it. Nintendo had Switch, Wii, Virtual Boy, Game boy, Wii U, Tiny console(GameCube), DS, and 3DS. They were the ones really throwing tech out there and seeing what sticks.

If that is truly what he wants then he should keep a closer eye on Nintendo instead of getting disappointed by the 4k twins.

You're going to count the Gamecube(tiny console) but not PSVR, Kinect, Blu-ray, PS Now, Gamepass, Play Anywhere, Gyro, legit services(just saying XBL is reductive as hell) to include Game Sharing/Shareplay/Streaming/multi-system accounts, remote play, etc?

All of that matters as much as what Nintendo has brought, even in this fantasy land where they're the only ones who innovate. His point isn't even about any of the things that you or I listed. It's about designing around the Saturn's processor/Emotion Engine etc.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Seems like he's touched a nerve in this thread haha. I agree with him, the more unique the better. PS5 and Scarlett are just gonna be underpowered pc's at the end of the day.

What has uniqueness ever done for game design? It's just made development harder and more expensive and prevented smaller developers from getting a chance to release games on the platforms that used them. Consoles have never been more powerful than PCs of the era anyway. It's just become clearer since PS4/XBO since the shared architecture means we're getting more and more quality PC versions of games.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,543
Jesus @ the defensive replies attacking him. Why do we have to react this way?

In any case, he's not wrong. I personally don't mind it so much given it ultimately means we get consoles that tend to be cheaper and more reliable, and that still provide really amazing results. But part of me does miss the days of gen 7, when Nintendo brought on motion controls, and the consoles had crazy proprietary tech.
But he's wrong. This generation will see the birth of streaming as a viable choice for a ton of users, on top of the popularization of VR.
 

ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,722
All I can say is that I'm glad I didn't buy into the first-gen of RTX cards. My GTX 1080 from three years ago is still going strong at 1440p.
Great card that's why, 1440p is also perfectly fine. Those RTX turing cards had no competition so was always going to be extortionate on release. Watch the 2080ti drop below £1000 when supers release.
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,327
I mean, the list is pretty long but honestly given how ill informed you seem to be about hardware innovation in the gaming space I'd recommend going through all the consoles that have come out as they released and make note of the innovations that occurred, even just surface level stuff like inputs or physical media, and then go forward and see what became standardized. and then consider the more technical side of things like graphics and sound. so that's for your claim about the only innovation on the hardware being motion controls. next we go to the claim that motion controls didn't last too long which I honestly don't even know what to say there. just look around. 'nuff said honestly. just crazy stuff tbh but hopefully that helps.
...of course there are new things in regards to the tech like improvements in sound, graphics rendering, physical media, etc. That's my whole point...

Those aren't exotic in any shape or form. The majority of games we're getting today are just improvements on past concepts. And smaller studios are experimenting with innovative new concepts in the mainstream console space (Xbox and PlayStation) due to more accessible standardized improved hardware, not some new exotic gimmick. We got open worlds on the PS2 for example, we're still getting vastly improved versions in that genre today simply thanks to hardware improvements.

And I'm not sure what major motion control scene you're referencing. If you're talking about Nintendo, yes, that's Nintendo, not Microsoft or Sony as Inaba is referencing. And even then, standard controller input works on 99% of Switch games today as opposed to the motion controller being the standard last gen for the Wii.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,844
As they get old, usually people are less and less impressed by the world, including the technology. They are losing the enthusiasm of their young years, they have seen so much that they now think everything looks the same (which is true with experience).

It's a rule of nature (well, humanity). The older we get, the more jaded we are.

But the technology does move forward, faster and faster. It's another rule of humanity.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,800
It being a xx bit system compared to the previous one. The promise of it being X times more powerful than the current iteration. The idea that we were going to see something done on the system we couldn't have seen before.

You know, like seeing Mario 64 running for the first time or seeing Tekken Tag.

OK... we have known for ages that we shouldn't expect those kind of leaps ever again, though.

Although good VR experiences have a similar "awe" factor for me.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
29,223
Also I see Era is still hung up on the word gimmick as if it's being some sort of bad thing.

If we didn't have gimmicks, we wouldn't have had the Switch. Hell I'd argue VR is a gimmick and you can bet your ass that's going to be a big focus going into the upcoming gen.

remember this classic?

IgmT73R.png
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,816
Framerate was more consistent on 360 yeah, but not vastly better (while the PS3 version had better cutscenes).
Blade mode tanked the framerate on PS3 to a point which was embarrassing to see on a shipped game. It didn't happen to anywhere near the same degree on 360. We're talking single digits here, for the duration of the entire Zandatsu animation.
 

zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
If it's not about doing something that can't be done elsewhere, then what is the point of wanting exotic hardware, which seems to be what Inaba is saying? He just wants a harder time for his developers to port their work over?

My take is he just wants something different, he wants folks to push the envelope and experiment. That doesn't necessarily required exotic hardware that nobody else can create.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Agreed.

Mr negative:
Being a PC gamers as well as console gamer has really become problematic in a way, everything in the console world is like a 3-4 year old PC and nothing on consoles gets you really excited unless there are great exclusives, and if there are great exclusives it essentially just piss you off that those games aren't available on better hardware than the 3-4 year old custom PC boxes they try to sell you for $400 each.

In the end you've payed $400 x 3 = $1200 every 7 years just for console hardware to be able to play those few great exclusives. And then I haven't added in the online gaming costs. Or the compromises regarding framerates.

It's a really annoying situation to be quite honest.

What's worse is that this doesn't end there. The future will be just as bad. Every cloud streaming platform will have their own exclusives as well. So in the end you'll very likely subscribe to 3 $99/month subscription services. $10x3x12x7 = ~$2500 in the same timespan, 7 years. Awesome...

Mr positive:
Competition is great!


Edit: messed up the math
 
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convo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,365
It makes me wonder if hardware gimmicks like the WIIU gamepad is what gets them more excited with new problems to solve. I understand you wanna do new stuff but it's not like BOTW needed costum cpu's to do its own thing well and that got showered with praise. Being disappointed that something is less complicated is for crazy people and dumb techbros that want new and shiny over anything.
 
Dec 11, 2017
4,824
Platinum doesn't have the money or resources to compete with AAA developers like Naughty Dog or Rockstar who can take full advantage of Scarlett/PS5's power. I can't blame them for being excited by the Switch and dreading next gen.
 

Sabercrusader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,189
I get that sentiment. As consoles move more and more towards just using PC parts, they become less and less unique from a technical perspective. I'm not a dev, but I can imagine how from that point of view, it becomes even less exciting.

That said, I think that this is overall the better move. Raw power output being better is going to lead to developers actually being able to implement all of the things they want to without being forced to cut things to make the game run smoother/fit on a disk.
 

NCR Ranger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,840
That's all well and good when it works, but when it doesn't it just drives up cost or what have you. Stuff like that Kinect and the Wii have fallen flat for me. I would rather take innovative gimmicks in software, like the cloud stuff he mentions, over hardware gimmicks.
 

Alpha_ulquiorra

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
281
Didnt everybody cry about the Cell? People never know what they actually want lol
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,430
Sony made the CELL and got trashed by developers, Platinum couldn't even made Bayonetta run well on it and now he wants custom chips?
He's nostalgic for a time when the custom chips were exciting and NEW in a way that is no longer true. He definitely didn't say Bayonetta ran well on those chips, and he doesn't say he "wants" nothing but custom chips.
 

Dynheart

Self-requested ban
Member
Oct 31, 2017
658
It doesn't make sense. Sure, maybe he's nostalgic for learning new arcane system architectures, but I fail to see how that has ever lead to better games. Seems like someone who runs a company that is focused on making fun and innovative action games should be overjoyed that he can do that in a more efficient way since quirky hardware is a thing of the past.

He's not saying it lead to better games, quirky games, or innovation. All he is saying, in a round about way, that it was fun to watch the console evolve. Sure, it was do to the custom chip sets, but it still lead to an element of surprise and question "what is this console really capable of." AKA, secret sauce.

That's gone now. The consoles are pretty much running out of the gate, and with a few refinements, it's as good as it gets for the rest of the consoles life cycle. Some people enjoy it, others find it pretty dull.

Both approaches can result in a weird ass gimmicky game no one will play, or an IP that garnered massive critical acclaim: The Last of Us. So I do not think is has anything to do with gimmicky games or some bull shit like that. but rather the development environment. To him, he may enjoy looking for that secret sauce. More of the same may just become dull and boring.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Seems like he's touched a nerve in this thread haha. I agree with him, the more unique the better. PS5 and Scarlett are just gonna be underpowered pc's at the end of the day.
The ratio of people saying they want hardware to stay relatively simple and easy to develop for versus people that are actually mad is not anywhere near what you are implying.

Heaven forbid people actually discuss it rather than just nod their heads in agreement uncritically like Dave Rubin.
 

zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
But that is done through game design, not custom chipsets that are confusing to most developers.

It can be. I agree. But it can also be done through hardware. It can be done through middleware -- which in some ways "streaming" is. Again, I think you are dissecting words to closely. It's about the sentiment -- give me something new, he is saying.
 

Remember

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,484
Chicago, IL United States
You're going to count the Gamecube(tiny console) but not PSVR, Kinect, Blu-ray, PS Now, Gamepass, Play Anywhere, Gyro, legit services(just saying XBL is reductive as hell) to include Game Sharing/Shareplay/Streaming/multi-system accounts, remote play, etc?

All of that matters as much as what Nintendo has brought, even in this fantasy land where they're the only ones who innovate. His point isn't even about any of the things that you or I listed. It's about designing around the Saturn's processor/Emotion Engine etc.

Nintendo tried VR first. Also PC had VR before Sony. Kinect and PS move/gyro came after Wii. Blu Ray I will give you. Gamepass/streaming/multi accounts all done on PC first. I only listed innovations in a world where the PC exists, not a world without. From this standpoint Nintendo has done more. Sorry man.
 
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