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Planning to move to Japan but I don't know if moving like this is a bad idea Up: Update from OP
- Thread starter David
- Start date
JET only accepts non native English speakers for non-English teaching positions such as a CIR (mandatory JLPT N2 minimum), SEA (a sports coach) or non-English ALT (very rare, and usually for some high schools, I've seen Mandarin and French teaching ALTs for example).
Also JET is very difficult to get into anyway. I know because I'm a current JET who's in my last year.
To add, the best way to actually experience Japan is to save up money and just do a long vacation there. Instead of staying in one place, you can travel a large part of the entire country and see different parts of it and meet lots of different people. If want to live and work there you will be stuck in one place and experience a more limited part of the country and culture.
I'm 20 and planning to teach English in Japan (only for the around 5 years JET covers) and even as a white, native speaker who is a lot younger than you and has the backing of parents who will catch me if I fall I know it's risky. Shit is competitive and you pretty much need an English degree and some teaching experience with at least a basic understanding of Japanese to even be considered. Travel with friends for 2 weeks or so, get your fix then plan something else for your future.
While JET is definitely competitive, they don't seem to really take those last two factors into account very much in the selection process, at least in my experience.
And in fact, I feel like they actively seek people who do NOT have a basic understanding of Japanese in most cases.
Teaching experience will vary as well, but most of the people I worked with had 0 experience. I had some experience from a part time job in university, but I was the exception.
I worked as an ALT for JET in Fukuoka and Osaka for 3 years, but I knew several people from my university who had 3-4 years of Japanese study and got rejected
but 80% of the people I worked with didn't even have a basic grasp of hiragana/katakana.
I think it is because they generally want to discourage people from speaking JP in the classes and the easiest way around that is to just select people who don't speak the language.
You definitely don't need an English degree or teaching experience for JET. It can help, I guess though.
The plan does not sound feasible as too much is asked of the mothers friend who has no obligation to look after the OP. If she finds him a job and he does not like it or stay with it I can't see her taking that too well. It's no fun babysitting someone new to the country that does not speak the language or have any support network.
I've had that experience once when I started a new job here in China and the company director sent his son out to work here at the same time I started because the son REALLY wanted to live in China.
I was told how he was super independent, I'd hardly ever see him and that he was an adventurer. The reality was that he could not do the simplest daily tasks with having me go with him to "help". He didn't have enough money when he arrived, his bank card kept getting blocked when he tried to use it in the ATM, overstayed his visa twice even though I told him it was super important to not miss that date if it happens a third time he'll be blacklisted and not allowed back in the country for ten years* (I think). He was a fussy eater, he liked Chinese food just not that, and that or that. He'd get into arguments or get pissed off about things because he didn't understand the language/culture. Of course he talked about learning Chinese but most of the time he was too tired.
His whole daily routine was, go to the office, come back to the apartment (I had to share with him BTW), play COD, watch anime and (mostly fail to) have sex with as many Chinese girls has he could find on Wechat. One of my colleagues even laughed how this guy had come all the way round the world and just replicated his exact lifestyle from back home.
So that's my real life first hand experience of just one guy that wanted to move to a country just because he liked the idea of it.
*Just last month my wife got a panicked late evening call from him asking which border crossing was open 24 hours as he'd forgotten he had to go out that day and he was on his last chance. I knew this would happen and it will be ten times worse as he married a Chinese woman and they just had a baby and that's not a mess I'd want anything to do with if he was stuck in Hong Kong and could not get inside China to even do his job or see his family.
I've had that experience once when I started a new job here in China and the company director sent his son out to work here at the same time I started because the son REALLY wanted to live in China.
I was told how he was super independent, I'd hardly ever see him and that he was an adventurer. The reality was that he could not do the simplest daily tasks with having me go with him to "help". He didn't have enough money when he arrived, his bank card kept getting blocked when he tried to use it in the ATM, overstayed his visa twice even though I told him it was super important to not miss that date if it happens a third time he'll be blacklisted and not allowed back in the country for ten years* (I think). He was a fussy eater, he liked Chinese food just not that, and that or that. He'd get into arguments or get pissed off about things because he didn't understand the language/culture. Of course he talked about learning Chinese but most of the time he was too tired.
His whole daily routine was, go to the office, come back to the apartment (I had to share with him BTW), play COD, watch anime and (mostly fail to) have sex with as many Chinese girls has he could find on Wechat. One of my colleagues even laughed how this guy had come all the way round the world and just replicated his exact lifestyle from back home.
So that's my real life first hand experience of just one guy that wanted to move to a country just because he liked the idea of it.
*Just last month my wife got a panicked late evening call from him asking which border crossing was open 24 hours as he'd forgotten he had to go out that day and he was on his last chance. I knew this would happen and it will be ten times worse as he married a Chinese woman and they just had a baby and that's not a mess I'd want anything to do with if he was stuck in Hong Kong and could not get inside China to even do his job or see his family.
Life is short. Follow your dreams. All the naysayers may regret those decisions at end of their life but guaranteed those with courage to do something like this will have an exciting life even if they fall down if things don't work out.
Just have a flexible return ticket.
In last 3 years I've lived in 5 different countries including Japan for 5 months. And visited 12 countries. My life is so much more enriched by taking the shot.
Just have a flexible return ticket.
In last 3 years I've lived in 5 different countries including Japan for 5 months. And visited 12 countries. My life is so much more enriched by taking the shot.
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Holy crap. You have my sympathies. That sounds like hell.
I'm all for being adventurous, I'm after all living in Japan myself. But that's why I can tell OP there's no "bartending visa" of any kind. Japan is known for being strict when it comes to visas and employment.
From my experience, you can forget teaching English in Japan if you're not from a native English speaking country. No matter your proficiency level or TOEFL. You can also forget living in Japan without at least a conversational level Japanese proficiency, even foreign companies frown on hiring people who don't speak Japanese - Of course this applies to jobs, and not the teaching path. As some other posters said before, JET usually doesn't care if you speak Japanese or not.
Granted, my experience is also dated as fuck, but from what I gathered it's not too different these days, especially with how many native applicants to JET or other programs you'll be competing with.
Granted, my experience is also dated as fuck, but from what I gathered it's not too different these days, especially with how many native applicants to JET or other programs you'll be competing with.
This is honestly the worst idea I have ever read. The fact that you continue to be serious about this despite all the warnings in this thread makes me think there's no changing your mind.
If you go through with this make sure you start a livejournal when you go homeless in Japan.
If you go through with this make sure you start a livejournal when you go homeless in Japan.
I've seen countless non-natives with great English being rejected pretty much because of their passport. I got my current teaching job in bigger part because I speak Japanese, lol (which for better or worse means I have more work to do even though I earn the same as native teachers).
Been there, in the end, I'm glad it didn't work out, but even the German schools rejected the second I mentioned that I hadn't taken the JLPT lol.
There's still private schools that may be more relaxed towards non native speakers, but in my prolonged relationships with ALT people since the early 2000s I've never actually met anyone who wasn't from some sort of native english speaking country. But meh, anecdotes will be anecdotes, I'm sure some people have managed contrary to what we're saying.
I'm not rich at all, and I said it could all end up a debacle. But whats the difference? Get in debt with a car a mortgage, tied down will all this shit you had. Chances are most of us are going to end up over our heads despite our best efforts, may as well do it in pursuit of something you love or think you love. Life is too short.
You should back up the thread and read at least the article about foreigners being detained by Japanese authorities before giving this sort of "advice". Someone who's never been to Japan would be surprised how hard it actually is to get by without a lick of Japanese.
Ya know Tabris, of all the things you usually say, this is very "let them eat cake".
DO IT
I have moved countries without a solid plan in place and it can work if you are determined and more than a little lucky
This absolutely sounds like your dream and you are going to regret it forever if you don't. My ex girlfriend was Argentinian and she got a job in Spain teaching English with the TOEFL certification, like obviously she had the advantage of speaking Spanish while teaching in Spain but if you have the basics of Japanese and you start of with a social job like bartending you are going to immerse yourself in the language really quickly.
Knowing the Japanese woman will help if she does manage to line up some jobs, and really that's a pretty big advantage if everyone does completely fuck up because if she is your mum's best friend you probably could crash at her house while trying to work out a way home or buy yourself a few days for more interviews.
You are young and honestly you will be able to get home if it all fucks up, you might get home broke but you'll have tried and you won't live with the regret of wondering what could have happened.
DO IT OP
I have moved countries without a solid plan in place and it can work if you are determined and more than a little lucky
This absolutely sounds like your dream and you are going to regret it forever if you don't. My ex girlfriend was Argentinian and she got a job in Spain teaching English with the TOEFL certification, like obviously she had the advantage of speaking Spanish while teaching in Spain but if you have the basics of Japanese and you start of with a social job like bartending you are going to immerse yourself in the language really quickly.
Knowing the Japanese woman will help if she does manage to line up some jobs, and really that's a pretty big advantage if everyone does completely fuck up because if she is your mum's best friend you probably could crash at her house while trying to work out a way home or buy yourself a few days for more interviews.
You are young and honestly you will be able to get home if it all fucks up, you might get home broke but you'll have tried and you won't live with the regret of wondering what could have happened.
DO IT OP
All well and good advice if YOU'RE not the one exposing yourself to that risk. Life isnt a Disney movie.
Nope, its a hellish corporate slog wasted on shit we dont like.
If op wants to gamble it on on Japan dream, fucking do it.
So your advice is coming from a living your life vicariously through others? I'm not sure that's helpful.
Or he could go back to the drawing board and build a better plan to move to Japan with lesser risks and a higher chance of success.
In fact the OP plan of getting a a job under the table could get him deported and not allowed to enter Japan for several years.
Japan is not Spain, they don't care about TOEFL certification for English teachers, they want native speakers.
Rather than to waste the money to crash against a wall today he should save it, learn the language and move to Japan in 3-5 years to attend a language school for a year, that would exponentially increase his chances of actually finding a job.
There's smart ways to go around gambling, the OP plan isn't one of those.
It's discouraged and you're not supposed to do it, but if you do find a job willing to sponsor your Visa you can change your Visa to a working visa without leaving the country.
And just like that, the "dream" is gone. Some overly optimistic people are not thinking this through.
My advice comes from a person who had crazy op dreams once and never did anything about them. Not the same dreams but dreams I talked myself out of with reason and thought.
Am I better off? Probably, but I'll never know, nothing risked, nothing gained.
Obviously there are better ways to go about things, but most of the time a better way is just a longer way of not doing it. So fuck it, go for broke, do some dumb shit. Live a little. Live for me op.
Do it without regrets... open a Peruvian restaurant or work in a restaurant as a matter of fact
Yo both of our offices are looking for staff atm, and that includes stuff like overseas marketing, community management and such.
https://www.snk-corp.co.jp/recruit/employment/index.php
We need all the help we can get so apply and/or spread the word plz.
I've lived in Japan for almost 8 years now. You are woefully unprepared and will fail at whatever it is you're trying to do. My advice is to just visit for travel at first.
Japan is great, and the people are generally nice, but that does not mean you will land into a comfortable life, especially looking at your questionable motivations.
Japan is great, and the people are generally nice, but that does not mean you will land into a comfortable life, especially looking at your questionable motivations.
Best and most practical idea in the thread so far. 10K USD in the bank and some part-time work after you arrive, and you can make it happen for a year.
So wait. I might have missed this part, but why didn't you learn Japanese? That is the first thing you should have done since Japan is known for their bad English.
Also, if you know Japanese that will give you advantages against all the other western people trying to work in Japan.
Also, if you know Japanese that will give you advantages against all the other western people trying to work in Japan.
To teach English in Asia most places ask for TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language) or TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) as a bare minimum requirement. TOEFL won't cut it out. That simply shows your qualification in English ability, but not to actually teach it.
From my experience it's not really bad English, it's more them being insanely self-conscious about it to the point where they won't even try to use what English they know with you.
That sounds reckless as hell but you already know that. Honestly, as long as you fully understand the risks I'd say go for it. Life doesn't always work the way it should on paper and taking massive risks can work out in your favor. Just make sure you have a plan if everything falls apart.
My opinion is that you should try, you're young and have plenty of time to make up for past mistakes (as long as you can get home) but I linked this thread to a Japanese friend of mine here in the US, he told me you should check this out:
http://www.aeonet.com
My friend used to work for them and he said they're pretty relaxed on the native speaker stuff and will provide a work visa. Its not always teaching but can also be a hosting/service/retail kind of position. Pay is not great but manageable.
He made it pretty clear that if you can't get a job with them, then you should turn away. They're hurting for people apparently and if they don't get you then now might not be the time to make the leap over to japan.
http://www.aeonet.com
My friend used to work for them and he said they're pretty relaxed on the native speaker stuff and will provide a work visa. Its not always teaching but can also be a hosting/service/retail kind of position. Pay is not great but manageable.
He made it pretty clear that if you can't get a job with them, then you should turn away. They're hurting for people apparently and if they don't get you then now might not be the time to make the leap over to japan.
You didn't mention in your OP whether you speak the language or not.
I'm gonna guess that you don't speak Japanese, and honestly that's the most important thing about living there.
I was travelling in Japan for 3 weeks and I was shocked by the low level of English over there, the average person you're gonna talk to literally doesn't know how to speak any English at all.
Put aside all the other problems like applying to jobs as a foreigner, visa issues, living expenses - not knowing Japanese will hold you back greatly and potentially will doom your staying, and I'm not exaggerating.
I'm gonna guess that you don't speak Japanese, and honestly that's the most important thing about living there.
I was travelling in Japan for 3 weeks and I was shocked by the low level of English over there, the average person you're gonna talk to literally doesn't know how to speak any English at all.
Put aside all the other problems like applying to jobs as a foreigner, visa issues, living expenses - not knowing Japanese will hold you back greatly and potentially will doom your staying, and I'm not exaggerating.
man i wonder how many current/former JETs we have on here lol
Look, man. Mexican here, I live in Japan. Don't do this.
From your post it sounds like you have a very idealized view of the country, and I can tell you right now that being a person from a latin american country in Japan is far different than being a person from, say, USA/Cad or Europe.
Here's the rundown:
- If you plan to live in a city, it is going to be extremely expensive and you will need a good job for that.
- If you plan to live in the countryside, you will have to get used to isolation and actual very strong culture shock as foreigners are seldom seen in the countryside.
Priority number one is getting a job. If your plan is working as an English teacher, this is not gonna work because you need to prove (somehow) that you have lived in an English speaking country a long time or that you're a native speaker, simple as that.
If you want ANY other job then prepare for the cruel reality that is needing extremely good japanese. And by extremely good I mean you need a degree proving so. I have friends that are extremely well prepared (2 master degrees, several years of experience in translation and programming, etc) and they get turned away left and right because they don't have an N1 title. They live in Japan, they are frustrated their degrees and experience are rendered automatically useless.
In addition, you cannot just walk in to an interview without being asked your visa status. No company will give you an interview on a tourist visa.
If you really want to come to Japan that much, your best way in is being a student. If you're going to be a student here then you will need extremely good academic background if you want to live in a city or need very high level of japanese if you choose the countryside. If you choose to study here, you have to understand that this is a time investment and that, generally, they expect new recruits in jobs to be people under 30. The race to 30 is very real, even in the West. You have to consider if the place or the subject you're choosing will give you good opportunities (outside) of Japan, because the possibility of having to leave is very real.
It is sad to say, but moving here with the mentality that "things will just work out" is extremely bad. It doesn't, dude.
This is not like moving to any other western country, you have to understand that the odds do not want you to win. Entry level jobs here are designed so you go back to your country so they can hire new staff. You also have to understand that aspiring for anything higher than an entry / mid level job is pretty much a pipe dream unless you can prove you're a genius or have enough credentials from Japanese companies or the government.
From your post it sounds like you have a very idealized view of the country, and I can tell you right now that being a person from a latin american country in Japan is far different than being a person from, say, USA/Cad or Europe.
Here's the rundown:
- If you plan to live in a city, it is going to be extremely expensive and you will need a good job for that.
- If you plan to live in the countryside, you will have to get used to isolation and actual very strong culture shock as foreigners are seldom seen in the countryside.
Priority number one is getting a job. If your plan is working as an English teacher, this is not gonna work because you need to prove (somehow) that you have lived in an English speaking country a long time or that you're a native speaker, simple as that.
If you want ANY other job then prepare for the cruel reality that is needing extremely good japanese. And by extremely good I mean you need a degree proving so. I have friends that are extremely well prepared (2 master degrees, several years of experience in translation and programming, etc) and they get turned away left and right because they don't have an N1 title. They live in Japan, they are frustrated their degrees and experience are rendered automatically useless.
In addition, you cannot just walk in to an interview without being asked your visa status. No company will give you an interview on a tourist visa.
If you really want to come to Japan that much, your best way in is being a student. If you're going to be a student here then you will need extremely good academic background if you want to live in a city or need very high level of japanese if you choose the countryside. If you choose to study here, you have to understand that this is a time investment and that, generally, they expect new recruits in jobs to be people under 30. The race to 30 is very real, even in the West. You have to consider if the place or the subject you're choosing will give you good opportunities (outside) of Japan, because the possibility of having to leave is very real.
It is sad to say, but moving here with the mentality that "things will just work out" is extremely bad. It doesn't, dude.
This is not like moving to any other western country, you have to understand that the odds do not want you to win. Entry level jobs here are designed so you go back to your country so they can hire new staff. You also have to understand that aspiring for anything higher than an entry / mid level job is pretty much a pipe dream unless you can prove you're a genius or have enough credentials from Japanese companies or the government.
Holy shit! I'm going to apply, Im ready to leave Sendai but not Japan. Thanks Sempai!
The company I work for had an opening in Tokyo I wanted to apply, but their immigration rules are hard to pass. I'll go visit next year and see what is like, but I don't think I'll apply again for now. Maybe if I make a lot of money in the next couple of years I could take a year off there. But I also want to go to Korea, China, Vietnam and whereabouts.
Good luck op, think twice what you are going to do, and if still looks fine do it!!!
Good luck op, think twice what you are going to do, and if still looks fine do it!!!
This. Don't get caught in that fucking cycle. Your actual skill set will go to waste.
So, SO many white/foreign dudes come to Asia with a degree in whatever, without ever having given the first thought to teaching anything to anyone. Suddenly they decide "I'll give teaching English in Asia a try. I speak English. How hard can it be to teach it?"
Ten years later, they're still here, and whatever grand ambitions they had to do something with their college degree were flushed right down the toilet because they found the white privelege they're afforded here to be too easy to give up. Decent, comfortable living wage. Cheap cost of living. The nightlife party that never ends. And, oh yes, the Asian girls they tend to get so insanely hung up on to the point of almost being racist in their objectifications.
So they stay put. And they stagnate. And while they burn themselves out working the ESL cram school scene they cook up these "make it big" schemes to try and do just about anything else to desperately cling to the life they've carved out for themselves. If they're lucky, they get married (to a local woman). If they're even luckier, the marriage doesn't end in divorce due to the weight of the cultural divide that takes hold.
OP, don't do it. Japan is a magical place and I've been three times and it's definitely a place you want to visit. But don't toss your current skill set aside and go the TEFL/ESL cram school route.
My advice to anyone is to establish yourself in your particular career path/field, and then see if you can land a job doing that abroad.
Or, if you are 100% serious about teaching, then get a real teaching certification/teaching degree and apply to the big international schools and make a real career out of it like my wife did. She's raking in the big bucks because she stayed the course.
Don't come to Asia to "find yourself", cause you never will. You'll be stuck in the same gear forever.
