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Phonetically written Dialogue has to Stop
- Thread starter 60fps
- Start date
OP
OP
Let me just add that if developers absolutely MUST include it they should take this approach (from the first link in the OP):
And I can use my imagination enough to think of how a zombie would speak, no need to make the text unreadable.
Yep.
Totally agreed!
You either voice them or see the example above.
Problem with the given examples is that nothing is actually said. Everything is written.
It doesn't SPEAK. It's text and the player has to READ it!
And I can use my imagination enough to think of how a zombie would speak, no need to make the text unreadable.
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I love it. It happens far too rarely in German translations, though. I think there was one NPC in a Final Fantasy(?) game who "spoke" Franconian (a German dialect), that was really funny. He also had a dialect in the original Japanese, IIRC.
Also, I currently live in a region where people who are born here have a pretty strong dialect. Informal messages are also written in dialect, meaning there are quite a few phonetically spelt words. In fact, due to colloquialisms and different grammar, some messages only look right if spelt that way. There's something off when using words and grammar only found in dialects but their spelling is "proper" standard German.
I don't think any of this is insulting. Do you think Scottish Twitter is insulting to Scots?
Also, I currently live in a region where people who are born here have a pretty strong dialect. Informal messages are also written in dialect, meaning there are quite a few phonetically spelt words. In fact, due to colloquialisms and different grammar, some messages only look right if spelt that way. There's something off when using words and grammar only found in dialects but their spelling is "proper" standard German.
If it's way overdone, it can be slightly irritating (some of the Dragon Quests get a little too overzealous with it), but overall I love it. It can really inject a ton of personality into dialogue, and it made me a better reader when I was younger.
It depends on the situation obviously. But in some cases that are politically and perhaps racially charged -- the usage (especially if it's bad) of something like ebonics by a bunch of white dudes in their writing isn't going to fly in 2019 as socially acceptable. And that's just one example. So you have to be careful when using a technique like this, and should probably avoid it if you're not going to put in some serious research to get it right and not come across as stereotypical.
Video games are not books. Rules are meant to be broken.
It really diminished octopath for me, I really don't get why they went all in on that for certain characters. I get the precedent of characters like Cyan in FF6 but it really got in the way with Hanit, like it was just unsparing in how it was applied.
As a localiser or a dialogue editor if you're having to rely on something like that to create a distance or dissonance between your characters that would otherwise not exist without putting a 'th' on the end of every other word then you've probably fallen short in your efforts. Your choice of spoken and written language should evoke the character's attitude and personality, not some gimmick.
As a localiser or a dialogue editor if you're having to rely on something like that to create a distance or dissonance between your characters that would otherwise not exist without putting a 'th' on the end of every other word then you've probably fallen short in your efforts. Your choice of spoken and written language should evoke the character's attitude and personality, not some gimmick.
That's not Middle English. In Middle English, they pronounced the k in knight and used completely different spelling and vowels compared to Modern English. Written Middle English looks like a completely different language at first glance.
Shakespeare wrote in Modern English. We've just stopped using "thee" since then.
Personally, I think the accent in question doesn't work very well in Octopath Traveler. The voice actors don't sound very natural when using it, and its placement in the world is completely and utterly arbitrary. So it doesn't really add much to the world building.
Personally out of all the examples this reads clean and clear to me and loving the characterisation this adds, however British English with very good ear for strong northern, Scottish and Welsh accents due to various relatives etc growing up...This was the fucking worst in Tales of Hearts R, I hate it.
I haven't seen Luke Cage, so are you saying the subtitles were in patois?
one English's greatest authors Irvine Welsh writes phonetically and its hard as fuck to read any of the speeches between character but the book wouldn't be as awesome without them.
I disagree with this. I like it when games do dialog phonetically, if they aren't going to voice act it.
Yeah this is fucking annoying and it's mostly jrpgs that do it. I'm all for games creating their own words and phrases to add flavor to the world but not at the cost of changing the entirety of the game's dialogue. I know the writers think it's cute but people still have to be able to read this shit. They really need to consider people who aren't 100% fluent in that language.
Saw the movie and had no idea what they were saying. I loved it.
But OT, if you're reading dialogue, then it should be spelled out the way it's pronounced. They do this in books all the time. It's no different. Especially in games with little voice acting. I really don't see how the medium makes a difference either. You're reading dialogue one way or another.
Don't strike it out but be more moderate in it. If it becomes difficult to read I start to hate it and just want to skip the dialog. If a character is supposed ot have an accent, sure, but don't overdo it unless they're supposed to be nearly in decipherable.
Oh yeah, I didn't really think of that, but you're right of course, it can get pretty ugly quickly if you're doing it to make fun of people. Your original post just sounded to me as if most phonetically spelt dialects are insulting to speakers of these dialects. I think this can be actually used as a rough guideline for phonetical spellings in text: Do people speaking a dialect you want to depict use it in writing too? If so, as long as you don't exaggerate, I think most people speaking said dialect will find it pretty charming.
Oh I imagine this kind of thing is a nightmare to localize if you're not fully fluent in each language you're localizing for, no matter the medium.
Does this mean all non-native English speakers understand English as good as you?
Steady ya 'orses sunshine. I'll 'ave ya know most of that is propa standard English where I come from. Don't be hatin' now of der Queen's (bless her 'eart) English. We's inveneed it and we's can spell it however we well damned please. That's just 'ow it goes doncha know.
The Minnesota example is trash, as there are plenty of Minnesotans who pick up the regional vernacular but not the accent. The two are completely different and are instrumental in conveying the length of time someone has lived there and even the level of education or life experience they may have.
I'm talking about accents in written form.
Stuff like this:
To me this adds nothing to the experience. It's just distracting and unprofessional.
It makes things harder to read, in games where you read hundreds or even thousands of dialogue lines.
And the worst thing: The original Japanese scripts don't have this - they give you normal, easy to read dialogue lines instead!
I agree with this:
https://thescriptlab.com/screenwriting/script-tips/911-dialogue-writing-dialects-and-accents/
If you're interested in video game localization in general this website is highly informative:
How the Heavy English Accents in Dragon Quest IV Work in Japanese
https://legendsoflocalization.com/lets-talk-aboot-those-dragon-quest-iv-accents/
Let me just add that if developers absolutely MUST include it they should take this approach (from the first link):
That first example is Scots, it's not a phonetically written language.
OP
OP
Ok, but I have to read it three times to understand it, that's the problem.
This reminds me of George from Metal Gear Rising, truly one of the most annoying characters in gaming
Exactly. Also, drop a few more F-bombs, it makes it more mature.
Why so aggressive? I merely stated that DQ7 was the only game I played/noticed phonetically written English and that it added to the experience in that game.
Don't get why you are piling on me specifically tbqh
For one it's not writing words phonetically so it goes against the OP's theme.
Also, it's a carry over of a japanese games sometimes swapping between two of the languages phonetic alphabets. Supposed to indicate instability when someone speaks in mixed hiragana/katakana. When people localize that shit over here they do the miXEd CAse thing which is, as you indicate, stupid as hell and annoying to read and it completely erases the intention.
This is EASILY the best image in this thread. That's fantastic.This was the fucking worst in Tales of Hearts R, I hate it.
The unironic best usage of this was in DQ5 DS, when the last boss spoke in not only a bizarre dialect but used a different font with numbers and shit injected. Made it feel like you were truly confronting an alien presence who was speaking to you inside your heads, and set him apart from any of the other demon lords or his subordinates.
That's Cyrillic script. As someone who can actually read it in one of the languages it's used in, this is melting my brain.
That's completely different though. George had voiced dialogue in his native Guyanese English, and was subtitled in a more standard English dialect. That way, it's authentic, but everyone can still understand; same if he were speaking another language like Spanish, French, Chinese, etc.
Simply putting the whole script in thick dialect (or even just straight-up Scots) with no dialogue or subtitles to guide the more general English speaker is what creates a problem.
This is some weird abomination of multiple dialects from both sides of the Atlantic.
Thanks, I hate it.
I quite like it. I enjoy trying to mimic the dialect in my head when reading.
But I also agree it needs to be done in moderation.
Non-native English speaker here.
But I also agree it needs to be done in moderation.
Non-native English speaker here.
Nah, it adds to the experience. I vehemently disagr—
I completely, 100% agree with the OP.This was the fucking worst in Tales of Hearts R, I hate it.
Wow, I didn't think of this at all. Thanks for shedding some light on that.
I was all ready to say what's the big deal? You just don't like fake olde English and intercapped dialogue! It's absolutely fine!
It helps me put the character's voice in my head, but obviously speaking as a native English speaker.
Couldn't agree more. If its not voice acted with the accent, then get the hell out. I don't want to have to think about what I'm TRYING to read when I'm playing a game. I appreciate that devs want to add some extra character to some of their....... characters. But making shit hard to read is not the way to go about it.
Hahaha. This one is funny because I cannot realistically picture that sort of voice coming out of a character that looks like that.
Similarly, there is also the major difference if you were to write a pittsburgh character. The difference between a full on yinzer and someone that just uses very pittsburgh words is all in the way the words are said, not the vocabulary. Phonetically spelling words is beneficial for conveying the accents that are less assumed in the world you are writing for, and are beneficial in fleshing out a character when you are working in text. Especially in the form of a game where you do not have the benefit of extra exposition to explain away unaccented dialog. Even then, books are often best served by having their dialog accentuate accents as to get their meaning across more directly and not need extra exposition.
This was the fucking worst in Tales of Hearts R, I hate it.
I think it has its place in dialogue, but there's a fine line between adding a little flavor to a character (and let's face it: game characters often have very little time or lines of dialogue to establish personality) and making things sound overly hammy.
This stuff needs to be done very carefully.
This stuff needs to be done very carefully.
Some Dragon Quest games are unplayable for me because of this, they take it to an absurd extreme that is a detriment to the experience.
