Thank you.
So now, even tho Booty and Phil was talking about XGS games, we can now include 3rd party....to say he didn't lie, its not confusing, lol.
Eventually one of these narratives will stick. Just gotta keep moving those goal posts.
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Phil's cross-gen "pro-consumer" plan: where was it?
- Thread starter Deleted member 4976
- Start date
Thank you.
So now, even tho Booty and Phil was talking about XGS games, we can now include 3rd party....to say he didn't lie, its not confusing, lol.
Eventually one of these narratives will stick. Just gotta keep moving those goal posts.
Well there in lies the problem...... mixed messaging. If cross gen doesn't hold back next gen then show that. If the focus is cross gen then show us a bunch of games that are cross gen instead of showing a lot more titles that are series x and pc only.
- Backwards compatibility with titles stretching back to the 2001 Xbox
- Continued cross generation support for new releases from First Party Studios
- Day one launches of new tittles to GamePass
- Smart delivery allowing for current game purchases to upgrade into "next Gen" versions on future hardware
- XCloud added to GamePass Ultimate allowing for access to "Next Gen" games without the purchase of new hardware
It looks a lot more consumer friendly then any other generational leap. I get continued access to my existing game library on new hardware. Some of that game library will extend into next gen versions of the same title, so I won't be forced to repurchase the same game for a better version of it or pay an additional upgrade or transfer fee. I get access to new titles across my existing devices, allowing me to upgrade to new hardware when I see fit, without missing out on new games. A generational shift has never happened like this before.
Fair enough...I'll give him that he's made Xbox much more exciting. Still has 180 PR moments though, the man talks and tweets too much for my blood lol.
It could be a PS4 game, yes... But making it exclusive isn't only to push PS5 sales, it's also helping the dev to release the game faster since they don't have to optimize for a last gen console.
Then who knows what gameplay features we can gain having a game exclusive to one next gen platform? I think it's too early to deem Morales as a shinier version of Spiderman PS4.
Letting the devs concentrate on one platform really helped Sony's exclusives to shine this gen.
I don't think Trump voters a cynical enough for this to be true. Though Spencer shares a similar demagogue-style parallel.
I was surprised how Halo Infinite looked. 343 definitely has some work to do. That said Forza Motorsport, even thought the trailer was just in-engine is the best looking racing game. GT7 was a leap aswell, but FM looks better.
I really need to take advantage of that feature. The cognitive dissonance I keep seeing is just giving me a headache at this point.
That is not fair.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about this...
... that was atleast 2 times visible.
If they truly intended to not release next-gen exclusive games in 2021, I'd be much more worried about their 2021 line-up. If Forza and Fable and Everwild are all truly 2022 or later (so that Spencer "keeps his promise")…yikes.
I can't see that happening, though. I think there will be next-gen-exclusive XGS games released in 2021.
I can't see that happening, though. I think there will be next-gen-exclusive XGS games released in 2021.
You think Phil shouldn't be called out when being dishonest?
I mean you can have differing opinions if cross-gen is good or bad. We had separate threads for that and iirc the poll was about 50:50. Both have their pros and cons.
But as head of Xbox, taking shots at you competitor by telling people that you think it's bad for consumers to have exclusives for next gen and force people to upgrade and then have a show where most of the games shown are exclusive to next gen is dishonest and misleading.
And he is rightfully called out for it. Honestly, I'm suprised this thread didn't get more traction. When executives are caught lying, the threads are usually bigger.
I think Sony attitude was just normal, nothing special, but MS PR is on all day about how good and pro everything are all the time, trying to regain good will, and then reality comes and these things happen. They also overhyped the previous show, and often react to certain Sony announcements too which isn't really necessary, like when talked about controllers being compatible unlike others, or the timed exclusive games and content.
So why not highlight this? C'mon, in this forum Cerny's been treated as a liar quite a bit for example (variable frequencies etc..) for just making a technical talk about ps5!
Good assessment. I agree. I've always said this. Depends when you count the first year.
Now, let's talk about how many claimed Booty's statement meant starting in 2019...
Like I said before, I blame some of this on folks posting in bad faith. Starting in 2019 made absolutely no kind of sense. And some ppl just ran with that.
Gt7 was captured from ps5, forza was inengine. Since Anthem most people know what that means....
If there's one thing I've learned about Xbox marketing over the past 15 years or so that the platform has existed, it's that it seems to have inherited the rather combative spirit Sega of America had in the '90s. Almost all of their marketing tends to be built around their competition: "our console is more powerful", "we don't do things the way THEY do", "we think [thing] is anti-consumer", etc. The identity of the Xbox platform always seems to exist as a counterpoint to Playstation in this weird next-generation "Genesis does what Nintendon't" kind of manner.
Phil Spencer in particular is a very smooth talker and he's very good at positioning those kinds of contrast-marketing talking points in a way that makes him sound reasonable and pleasant to an observer. He loves to tell people what they want to hear, and that's fine, that's PR's job, but the problem arises when your PR talking point is something YOU KNOW you'll be contradicting very shortly but you proceed down that path anyway.
And Phil has walked into a bunch of those bear traps this past year or so when he could've easily avoided them by just being a little bit more honest in the first place.
Phil Spencer in particular is a very smooth talker and he's very good at positioning those kinds of contrast-marketing talking points in a way that makes him sound reasonable and pleasant to an observer. He loves to tell people what they want to hear, and that's fine, that's PR's job, but the problem arises when your PR talking point is something YOU KNOW you'll be contradicting very shortly but you proceed down that path anyway.
And Phil has walked into a bunch of those bear traps this past year or so when he could've easily avoided them by just being a little bit more honest in the first place.
Phil Spencer is a master of the carefully worded declaration. I mean look at Hellblade II. Phil basically gives up ahead of time that the teaser is meaningless, but he uses words like "in-engine" and "taking full advantage of Xbox Series X" to mask that fact.
People can say he didn't technically lie, or try to change the conversation to "bitching" gamers changing the "narrative". The fact remains Spencer words things specifically to take advantage of PR knowing he's going to quietly walk it back months later.
People can say he didn't technically lie, or try to change the conversation to "bitching" gamers changing the "narrative". The fact remains Spencer words things specifically to take advantage of PR knowing he's going to quietly walk it back months later.
All of this. I hadn't thought of the Sega comparison but it's spot-on.
This is still a lot more than I so it's technically support.
I'm not blaming Phil, he's doing as he's told. But this year would've been the third or fourth E3 where he'd be telling us one thing and showing us nothing.
EGOMON
I forgot, he did say that.... that post chain is hilarious, lmao.
Look, its like this: if you embrace their strategy, embrace it. If not, be upset.
Most things in life have pros n cons. You can't act like cons don't exist for what they're doing. Simple explanation is they just aren't ready with games.
Some ppl called all this a couple of years ago, and there was much debate about it for the past 2 years.
About Phil...I think this might be coming from those above him, he might be just trying to make the best of it until later. If that's the case, what can you really do if you're him?
I forgot, he did say that.... that post chain is hilarious, lmao.
Look, its like this: if you embrace their strategy, embrace it. If not, be upset.
Most things in life have pros n cons. You can't act like cons don't exist for what they're doing. Simple explanation is they just aren't ready with games.
Some ppl called all this a couple of years ago, and there was much debate about it for the past 2 years.
About Phil...I think this might be coming from those above him, he might be just trying to make the best of it until later. If that's the case, what can you really do if you're him?
Just wanna say Phil is the CEO of Xbox.
I don't think there is someone that tells him what to say.
THIS RIGHT HERE. This is why certain acts of the Xbox brass annoys me. They feed into the competition when an Opportunity presents itself. Then when it's thrown back at them, they turn into the "Can't we all just get along" gamer.
i feel Phil's intentions are good, but he's as PR as they come. Like another post said, every year Xbox says this press conference is the best one yet! After saying it again and again it rings hollow. Now after 2 XSX press conferences, it's all smoke. They will say whatever in the moment cause it really doesn't hold any consequences. They're stuck in 3rd, they have nothing to lose.
Its not unwarranted though. It's part of the issue and they doubled down on it multiple times. They could have clarified but they continued to double down not to mention add to the confusing messaging.
In my opinion and just pure speculation, but I believe that Forza Horizon 5 will sub in for Forza Motorsport in 2021. Playground has two studios, one working on Fable, the other presumably on Forza Horizon 5.
That could be, forza horizon 4 was released 2 years ago and they have continuously hit it out of the park.
I think the biggest difficulty with this is the reworked forzatech. They may have to ship without Raytracing.
Still, I am not adverse to FH5. It could run at 720p and 30fps and if the world was as fun to explore and the races as engaging as ever, I'd still play. Still though, let's strive for more. ;)
We've already seen a lot of aspects for that mentality, it's not a big mystery
With the removal of Xbox Live Gold 12 month sub there's also potential they could rework the subscription offerings, and all indications are it would likely be in a way that benefits players. Some games will be cross-gen releases, mostly until end of 2021, but it won't last forever (Especially with Xbox One X discontinued). They'll likely make that cut-off less painful with Xcloud
- Lockhart; Lower end next-gen console that's cheaper
- Xcloud; Ability to play all 1st party Xbox games on any device along with a number of other games
- GamePass; Cheaper and more accessible manner to play games
- Smart Delivery; Pay once and use the same license for cross-gen while getting the best version of the game the hardware can do at no cost, at least for 1st-Party Games
With the removal of Xbox Live Gold 12 month sub there's also potential they could rework the subscription offerings, and all indications are it would likely be in a way that benefits players. Some games will be cross-gen releases, mostly until end of 2021, but it won't last forever (Especially with Xbox One X discontinued). They'll likely make that cut-off less painful with Xcloud
OP
OP
I was just being nice in the OP and not calling Phil Spencer's PR for what it was:
Deceptive. He knew exactly what the Xbox road map was looking like when he was out there scoring brownie points for his "pro-consumer" stance which really just amounted to Halo plus games that have existing contractual arrangements prior to an aquisition.
You made the same mistake I did, thinking the topic was for people that didn't catch any or all the bullet points you listed.
In reality this is actually just another era shit on Phil Spencer/Xbox thread. The actual stuff Xbox is doing that's consumer friendly doesn't seem to have a place in this discussion.
It seems totally possible that they'll use FH5 as their headline Forza game, but I think they probably should also have something for Forza Motorsport before 2022, even if that's a further-enhanced version of Forza Motorsport 7. It's been a biennial series since the beginning and three years is already an usually long gap, so it might be best for them to have something for XSX to fill in for the Motorsports name until the new game releases.
Yeah, he's saying games that are actually on both consoles wont be held back by being on Xbox One. This is different than the games just not being cross gen at all which is what this topic is about. So he's saying games like Halo will meet the ambitions that the team had despite being on both platforms.
Don't you dare talk about my baby.
It looked different, more stylized. It was also just an engine demo like hellblade. Representative of a goal they have.
Speaking of Xcloud, I did find it curious that the Xbox One S All-Digital was discontinued (along with X), but the One S remains. Makes me wonder if they may use the S as a way to bridge the gap for people who prefer to buy physical (collecting or trading/lending/selling). It may also be possible that we could have the ability to use an Xbox One S to play a physical disc through the Xcloud service.
Does this have really anything to do with this thread?
I honestly think that was just to simplify the market. Series X will become the 4K machine and it would probably weird to market Lockhart as a 1080p machine at near the same price as the One X. The all digital probably just sold poorly. Shit was kinda silly price wise.
He's the VP of gaming, there are people above him I know there's a woman directly above him, but can't remember her name.
Halo looked a hell of a lot better as an in engine trailer in 2018 that it does today.
Well, that is true, there is no CEO position at Xbox.
I thought he was the highest head at Xbox.
Maybe, as you said, he is forced to say such things, somehow i feel sorry for him.
I like it when these companies communicate with us more, even thought some decisions change over time. But obviously there is a issue with that, because you can get called out more often. If Scalebound never would've been announced, then nobody would criticize them for canceling it.
Well, you always got fanboys on a forum and those nitpick everything Spencer, Cerny, ... say in their inteviews. I think you can highlight the confusion these statements by Xbox caused, but I think some people are jumping to conclusions with Booty statement back then.
Some studios achieved their in-engine trailer or were pretty close. I prefer when developers show gameplay any day of the week. But I don't think Athem can be used as proof to say all in-engine games will get heavily downgraded.
As I recall Horizon, albeit captured on PS5 was in-engine too and I fully expect GG to deliver whst they've showed or at least be very close. I think GT7 will see lots of improvments before launch. That said currently FM looks better.
He promised to focus more on First Party and delivered for example. What's evident after the event is that the studios need more time and maybe Microsoft waited a bit to long to purchase them.
I guess part of the problem is that relatively standard approaches get talked up to sounding like something unique and special? And by "problem" I mean the PR. If not for that, they wouldn't get these reactions all the time.
A month or so, you'd get pounced upon here if you said that you didn't think smart delivery was much different from cross buy, or that cross gen would be limited to a few titles for a year or so.
A month or so, you'd get pounced upon here if you said that you didn't think smart delivery was much different from cross buy, or that cross gen would be limited to a few titles for a year or so.
You're thinking of Amy Hood, CFO of Microsoft. There is no one directly above Spencer inside of Microsoft except Satya Nadella, the CEO.
The big one for me is the "boo hoo I hate console exclusivity" sob story then immediately announcing 20 of em lmao
He's doing PR. It is what it is
He's doing PR. It is what it is
But he wasn't scoring brownie points because people are complaining about the Xbox one holding back next generation (were you one of those ppl?). One complaint has been replaced with another.
Two things have become clear post-showcase:
- By "XGS games will be crossgen for the first couple year", they really meant "XGS doesn't have any games in the first couple years, except some yet-unreleased Xbox One games that are already announced." It's possible this could change, if MS has a Global Publishing game they haven't announced yet, but beyond that, it looks like ALL of their studios are accounted for with no games set to release in 2020 or 2021 outside of Psychonauts 2.
- Cross-gen absolutely holds back their games. Halo Infinite looks like it suffers a whole lot from being designed for Xbox One. And don't tell me it would have been impossible for Halo to target next-gen only because it's been in dev so long. Halo 1 was a launch title! Killzone Shadow Fall was clearly never a PS3 game either! It's quite possible, they just didn't do it.
- By "XGS games will be crossgen for the first couple year", they really meant "XGS doesn't have any games in the first couple years, except some yet-unreleased Xbox One games that are already announced." It's possible this could change, if MS has a Global Publishing game they haven't announced yet, but beyond that, it looks like ALL of their studios are accounted for with no games set to release in 2020 or 2021 outside of Psychonauts 2.
- Cross-gen absolutely holds back their games. Halo Infinite looks like it suffers a whole lot from being designed for Xbox One. And don't tell me it would have been impossible for Halo to target next-gen only because it's been in dev so long. Halo 1 was a launch title! Killzone Shadow Fall was clearly never a PS3 game either! It's quite possible, they just didn't do it.