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Phil Spencer: 'Xbox Live is not a free speech platform' - Kotaku interview
- Thread starter SuikerBrood
- Start date
Gaming platforms like Xbox Live and PSN are already controlled to a certain point. You cant create offensive Nicknames and most curse words are auto censored when u type messages.
I see bigger toxicity in social media platforms. Some gamers can be very toxic through mic, but other than a report button, thers not much these big corporation can do to prevent ppl from saying whatever they want. And both platforms already have report options.
I see bigger toxicity in social media platforms. Some gamers can be very toxic through mic, but other than a report button, thers not much these big corporation can do to prevent ppl from saying whatever they want. And both platforms already have report options.
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I've seen this so sooooooo much on Twitter. Not this specifically, but similar posts. Pretty much why I made the comment that I did because they're as predictable as can be.
Plus, with the line between parody and reality blurring to the point of disappearing, it's just easier at this point to say the hell with them all.
He's absolutely right and companies - particularly Google, FB, and Twitter - not being upfront about this or even really upholding it at all is a huge part of why we're dealing with a generation of neo-fascists born online. It's why we have idiotic "debates" about "censorship". These companies are not government bodies nor are they beholden to the first amendment.
Not even to give MS too much credit, it's just nice to hear you're not going crazy every now again. Some of these people in charge do actually still live in objective reality.
Not even to give MS too much credit, it's just nice to hear you're not going crazy every now again. Some of these people in charge do actually still live in objective reality.
LOL, I think it's the first time I see this sincerity. People are always "I'm not a bigot, but..."
Pardon my ignorance but how are the two platforms different in this regard (besides this statement from Spencer)?
Everybody keeps quoting the same post you did but I really wish you or someone else would actually add something more because I don't know the context for what you and everyone else are alluding to
I'm not dismissing your claims and I'm sorry that you had this kind of experience, but the racism I experienced in PS3 because of being a Mexican with a thick accent trying to speak English made me drop all kinds of community gaming stuff and I play completely alone since then. I completely refuse to speak that language other than for work reasons because of that.
This is not a "gotcha post", it's rather a commentary on how infuriating it is to have to share a hobby with truly awful people and I'm glad someone like Phil is raising his voice so people like you or me don't experience this while playing games.
For the record, I play on PS4, XB1 and PC, all of those platforms are ridden with assholes like that, so changing a console or environment didn't help at all mitigating that problem.
Microsoft removes names from their service which are intolerant. Sony doesn't.
I find that hard to believe. Any link to this?
Edit: found a link that says they do if someone has reported the username and it was deemed offensive:
True, sadly most online communities are pretty toxic, just XBL seemed to me at least as by far the worst. it could be anecdotal of course but im not the only one to point out how bad it use to be (this 500k liked viral tweet). Microsoft generally refused to do anything about it back then, it's good to see them step up.
Sony's moderation and support is total garbage. It's like they live to make the end user suffer. I've reported people for things they've messaged me on PSN countless times and have had NOTHING come from it. It's a joke.
To be fair, moderating voice chat is a whole different ballpark
I've reported so many highly offensive names and they still show up on PSN.
The latest one was a player with the name I_only_kills_gays who I reported last week and he's still active.
This is the right approach. Free speech does not include hate speech and bullying, so get that scum out of Xbox Live.
Surprisingly enough I had this casual debate while playing Halo 3 with my Californian friend back in the day lol he popped up about first amendment while I raised the point about what's socially acceptable while using LIVE/T's&C's etc. We won a fair few games AND reached a fair middle ground on the matter. Our team must game thought we were high AF or something lol.
This is a difficult one because if I were to repeat here (on era) any of what is said by those personalities I'd be perma banned instantly. So instead I'll refer you to just one of these persoanlities via a thread already made on era.
I like this, nothing upsets me more than seeing people try and justify "smack talk" over mics and game chat as just "harmless" when the truth is, it's a form of bullying imo.
The problem is, not everybody wants to be screamed at because they made a mistake in an online game, constructive criticism is fine but more often than not unmoderated smack talk, in my experience, always devolves into racial slurs or sexist slurs or just hateful stuff in general, like telling people to kill themselves or "get cancer" just horrible disgusting things you should never say to another person.
Any stance against this kind of thing is great as far as I am concerned.
The problem is, not everybody wants to be screamed at because they made a mistake in an online game, constructive criticism is fine but more often than not unmoderated smack talk, in my experience, always devolves into racial slurs or sexist slurs or just hateful stuff in general, like telling people to kill themselves or "get cancer" just horrible disgusting things you should never say to another person.
Any stance against this kind of thing is great as far as I am concerned.
Twitter never ceases to surpise me.
Good on Phil but it's embarassing it needs to be said over and over.
It's seems quite neatly that basically 0 of the population do
Or a very small fraction just above that
It's the same in both places, what people don't understand is that it doesnt mean freedom of consequence.
Great, less toxic environment then :).
I'm sure I've heard him recount this before. It's what gaming can be and absolutely should aspire to be.
Not at all, rallies like the one in Charlottesvile (or any other manifestation like this one) are illegal in Europe -- at least most of it.
By illegal I mean you'd go to trial instantly and face jail time or/and heavy penalties if you did anything close to what happened there, it also applies to what is said on the internet ; and that's why Europe is hard pushing against big social networks like Twitter and Facebook on moderation.
If Phil Spencer was representing a company from Europe he would have said : "Of course Xbox Live is platform where we enforce freedom of speech, and that's why you can't have toxicity there"
Edit : US and the European view on freedom of speech are so FUNDAMENTALLY different both legally and philosophically, I'm amazed someone could say they aren't
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Well, for xbox that will only make it better if they boycott. Now if only Sony would say the same thing so they'd stay away from PSN (we don't want them either)! And Nintendo... and then they'd be left with... well fuck it, they did it to themselves.
Not really in the US and Canada one can sue for defamation of character.
Now that I think about it I wonder if a class action lawsuit could be possible against youtubers who defame the characters of a race or a sex of people
Xbox Live becoming a shorthand for toxicity is basically a combination of 360 coming out a year earlier than PS3, more people using headsets in general compared to PSN and none of them having played Counterstrike on PC for any appreciable length of time because that was a truly harrowing experience.
360 chat was ruthless. Honestly made me numb to any form of shit talking in video games. The in-game chat, the messages that people would send and still nothing would happen..
It's definitely come a long way since, but I think that's more party chat being a thing than any actual moderation from the xbox team. It's hard to be called a nigger 40 times in 2 minutes when they're in their Proud Boys Party Chat.
I don't know for Canada, but for the US it's in the constitution that any opinion can be represented as long as it doesn't incite immediate physical harm to anyone.
In Europe, hate speech or sexism are not opinions ; they are crimes, literally.
In the United States, federal defamation law is closely tied to the First Amendment. As a result, federal slander and libel laws are more defendant-friendly in the U.S. than those in common law countries, like the U.K. and Canada. In short, opinion is not considered defamation in the U.S. That being said, false statements of fact that harm the reputation of an individual or business, aren't protected under Constitutional Free Speech provisions.
Yes, but my point was basically : reading the headline here (in Europe) "Phil Spencer: 'Xbox Live is not a free speech platform'" means the exact opposite of what Phil explains in his interview.
So it's always weirdly amusing to see how disconnected both definitions of "freedom of speech" are across the Atlantic.
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The thing is, "unmoderated" platforms become a haven for shitty people and the decent folk leave so it's only those shitty people that have a voice there. They're moderated by default, only to the benefit of the assholes.
I remember xbox live having the thing where you select the level of "trash talk"? I have no idea if it actually made a difference in the type of people you were matched with. but even back then I felt it was a cop-out and just a golden ticket to be an asshole online.
Cool. There are very few instances where speech should be regulated in public life however. If a private entity wants to regulate expression on their platform then go for it. I would hope that they would have clear terms and enforce as evenly as possible but it is clearly the right of a private entity to regulate speech within their platform.