Phil Spencer told Microsoft to go 'all-in' on gaming when brand was threatened

[Windrunner]

I'm always amazed that people can be so passionate about a corporate executive.

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You're on a gaming enthusiast forum and this is a thread about how Spencer convinced Nadella to not wrap up the Xbox business when the latter had just been made CEO and was looking to reshape the entire company in his image, all this against the backdrop of the Xbox One's abject failure in 2013-14; of course people here are going to be appreciative that he didn't fluff his pitch when his boss didn't really believe in the Xbox brand and was considering pulling out. Imagine having an entire business on your shoulders, the jobs of hundreds of people riding on such an important response and instead of playing it safe, he asks for billions of dollars of investment instead. All memes aside, he's earned some measure of respect.

 

[johancruijff]

Age of Empires is back
MS Flight Simulator too

Give that empty chair a raise 🤷‍♂️

 

[Jerm411]

I'm always amazed that people can be so passionate about a corporate executive.

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...or people just like the guy, think he's genuine, and believe he has done a lot for a brand they care about and trying to make strides in gaming in general?

Couldn't be that.

In the end, who cares?

 

[Belthazar90]

It amazes me people hate Spencer when he genuinely seems to he wants to grow the business by being consumer friendly.

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I don't think anyone hates him tbh.

 

[Phil's Empty Chair]

But Phil is just a pawn!

 

[Iwao]

I actually liked the Xbox One exclusives that were already being made before the big changes. Dead Rising 3, Sunset Overdrive, Gears 4, Quantum Break... I wish they would've kept focusing on stuff like that.

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I got a feeling they will focus on stuff like that eventually. They just need to give devs/pubs of the likes of Capcom, Insomniac and Remedy more confindence that their platform will better support those kinds of games, and also I think the onus is on their mangagement of first-party studios in releasing quality AAA games to show that they can also be amazing.

Xbox just has three times the studios now that makes games. So.. making these kind of lists becomes a little easier. ;)

They were always serious about making games. They just didn't have the budget or manpower to do as well as they can now.

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"Three times" is definitely inaccurate, based on the timeline.

Yep, the budget was only one of things (not saying previous games didn't have a big budget), but now smaller teams have more to work with and can eventually grow, which is good. It just may take a while before we see how this comes to fruition.

 

[LordBaztion]

This thread is full of people talking abasolute shite.

- It takes time to make stuff
- Sony's output has been better received and has been consistently good (though not always top notch, but you know what? If you love it, good, that's the fucking point of all this)
- MS's output is not shite because of that fact, per se (the 'winner takes all' mentality is fucking ridiculous and unhelpful), though some has definitely been worse than it could/should have been
- The change from MS 2013 to MS 2019 is absolutely stark, and to pretend otherwise is to be facetious, at best.

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well said.
People often confuse Ms making bad games to they making games that don't appeal to them.

 

[sibarraz]

Phil Spencer, Matt Booty and Major Nelson against the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega LET'S GO

 

[Thatguy]

They have better optics now than at XBO reveal but I still think they're being conservative. Nothing I have seen will come close to competing with PS5 (specs will be close in some areas but Sony wins on exclusives, BC leverage, possibly price if they subsidize). Series needs some major secret sauce and I really hope they have some. If all they have left is price reveal and the lower end model then I think they're coming in 3rd place. I think their online streaming is a second gen streaming offering and I expect Sony to reveal a second gen streaming option of their own so that story isn't done yet. Gamer goodwill is a nice feeling but I would rather play a game I want to play than feel good about a "pro consumer" console I bought.

 

[Deleted member 6235]

Those saying "but where are the games MS?", aren't exactly bringing it up from nowhere.

Listing games that Xbox is projected to have coming out in response is not exactly telling of how they have changed even though they very well might have. Do those of you making these lists believe Xbox didn't (before Phil made his intentions clear) have a slate of games announced and set to release, and that MS publishing wasn't "serious" about those games when they were making them? Of course they were serious, they just weren't good at doing it. Xbox in fact did have a lot of games that you could similarly make lists out of before 2019. Will all of those games you list be good as what people expect from other platform holders (which is where a lot of the criticism comes from)? That's a question for another day. It's definitely a start, but to act like they were never serious about games is like… a fallacy.

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They didn't have company wide support before, though, so it's a drastic change from not having a seat besides the CEO to reporting directly to Nadella. It's one of the reasons we're seeing way more development time being put into these games overall. Acting like the way XGS is handling stuff before and in the present moment are not drastic changes is like... a fallacy. It's one of the reasons people are more optimistic overall.

 

[Bradbatross]

They have better optics now than at XBO reveal but I still think they're being conservative. Nothing I have seen will come close to competing with PS5 (specs will be close in some areas but Sony wins on exclusives, BC leverage, possibly price if they subsidize). Series needs some major secret sauce and I really hope they have some. If all they have left is price reveal and the lower end model then I think they're coming in 3rd place. I think their online streaming is a second gen streaming offering and I expect Sony to reveal a second gen streaming option of their own so that story isn't done yet. Gamer goodwill is a nice feeling but I would rather play a game I want to play than feel good about a "pro consumer" console I bought.

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And there will be plenty of games from their 15+ studios all releasing on their "Netflix of games" subscription service. The amount of diverse content they'll be releasing will be hard to find anywhere else. They'll be just fine.

 

[Iwao]

They didn't have company wide support before, though, so it's a drastic change from not having a seat besides the CEO to reporting directly to Nadella. It's one of the reasons we're seeing way more development time being put into these games overall. Acting like the way XGS is handling stuff before and in the present moment are not drastic changes is like... a fallacy. It's one of the reasons people are more optimistic overall.

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I think the most drastic change we've seen in regards to their game offerings is the quick successive acquisitions and that their games will all be on GP day one (and that Microsoft is not really inteferring with the development of them outside of ensuring that they are on schedule for release). I'm not sure which games outside of Halo and Forza have been getting extra development time. Some of the games they have released already this gen already had extended development time.

 

[m23]

You're on a gaming enthusiast forum and this is a thread about how Spencer convinced Nadella to not wrap up the Xbox business when the latter had just been made CEO and was looking to reshape the entire company in his image, all this against the backdrop of the Xbox One's abject failure in 2013-14; of course people here are going to be appreciative that he didn't fluff his pitch when his boss didn't really believe in the Xbox brand and was considering pulling out. Imagine having an entire business on your shoulders, the jobs of hundreds of people riding on such an important response and instead of playing it safe, he asks for billions of dollars of investment instead. All memes aside, he's earned some measure of respect.

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Well said.

 

[Deleted member 6235]

I think the most drastic change we've seen in regards to their game offerings is the quick successive acquisitions and that their games will all be on GP day one (and that Microsoft is not really inteferring with the development of them outside of ensuring that they are on schedule for release). I'm not sure which games outside of Halo and Forza have been getting extra development time. Some of the games they have released already this gen already had extended development time.

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Most of the games that are releasing early next year got either delayed or a bigger development times in general compared to past MS's releases. Wasteland 3 got more time (and more resources as Brian Fargo really likes to repeat), Ori 2 had, what, four years of development time? Psychonauts 2 was also delayed after the acquisition. And of course, Halo Infinite having the largest development time in the series history and Forza getting to have more time and not needing to follow the two year schedule also points to some big chances within the organization.

That's one of the most exciting prospects of these projects and the future of these studios for me, tbh

 

[AmFreak]

The excerpts are already enough PR for a day.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Delays are almost always good.

 

[Fuchsia]

It amazes me people hate Spencer when he genuinely seems to he wants to grow the business by being consumer friendly.

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Yeah I don't get it either.

 

[Thatguy]

And there will be plenty of games from their 15+ studios all releasing on their "Netflix of games" subscription service. The amount of diverse content they'll be releasing will be hard to find anywhere else. They'll be just fine.

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Sony has about 700 PS Now titles and Gamepass has about 150 IIRC.

 

[More Butter]

I'm always amazed that people can be so passionate about a corporate executive.

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Phil is the dad none of us deserve.

 

[Bradbatross]

Sony has about 700 PS Now titles and Gamepass has about 150 IIRC.

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I haven't counted, but I'm pretty sure I saw some recently say that Game Pass has over 300 games. But Game Passes biggest draw isn't the amount of games on it, but it's curated quality content. That's why it gets so much more exposure and excitement than the competition.

 

[Iwao]

Most of the games that are releasing early next year got either delayed or a bigger development times in general compared to past MS's releases. Wasteland 3 got more time (and more resources as Brian Fargo really likes to repeat), Ori 2 had, what, four years of development time? Psychonauts 2 was also delayed after the acquisition. And of course, Halo Infinite having the largest development time in the series history and Forza getting to have more time and not needing to follow the two year schedule also points to some big chances within the organization.

That's one of the most exciting prospects of these projects and the future of these studios for me, tbh

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I get where the renewed confidence comes from, I really do. It's all about the perspective really.

CEO of Moon recently said that MS has given them complete freedom when it comes to the development of their game, going back to Ori and the Blind Forest which was also in development for 4 years. Psychonauts 2 has experienced delays in the past and MS doesn't have a reason to cut Double Fine short. MS nor the Xbox brand can truly weather another H5/MCC situation so 5 years for Infinite sounds like erring on the edge of caution more than anything else, but yes it sounds ambitious so there's also that. Turn 10 not releasing Forza 8 in 2019 sounds more like an internal desire to have it as a launch game for next-gen than anything else because it's not like they're incapable of making a great Forza game in 2 years.

 

[Deleted member 18951]

This is not your Father's Microsoft - the thread.

 

[Jiraiya]

I get where the renewed confidence comes from, I really do. It's all about the perspective really.

CEO of Moon recently said that MS has given them complete freedom when it comes to the development of their game, going back to Ori and the Blind Forest which was also in development for 4 years. Psychonauts 2 has experienced delays in the past and MS doesn't have a reason to cut Double Fine short. MS nor the Xbox brand can truly sustain another H5/MCC situation so 5 years for Infinite sounds like erring on the edge of caution more than anything else, but yes it sounds ambitious so there's also that. Turn 10 not releasing Forza 8 in 2019 sounds more like the desire to have it as a launch game for next-gen than anything else because it's not like they're incapable of making a great Forza game in 2 years.

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I think forza happened because it was needing it more than waiting for it to be a launch title. Getting just a little stale.

 

[Dimajjio]

The ultimate test is yet to be seen - can Xbox Series X (or XCloud maybe) make any headway in Japan?

 

[K' Dash]

Sony has about 700 PS Now titles and Gamepass has about 150 IIRC.

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Sorry but that PSNow library is terrible.

 

[Deleted member 6235]

I get where the renewed confidence comes from, I really do. It's all about the perspective really.

CEO of Moon recently said that MS has given them complete freedom when it comes to the development of their game, going back to Ori and the Blind Forest which was also in development for 4 years. Psychonauts 2 has experienced delays in the past and MS doesn't have a reason to cut Double Fine short. MS nor the Xbox brand can truly weather another H5/MCC situation so 5 years for Infinite sounds like erring on the edge of caution more than anything else, but yes it sounds ambitious so there's also that. Turn 10 not releasing Forza 8 in 2019 sounds more like an internal desire to have it as a launch game for next-gen than anything else because it's not like they're incapable of making a great Forza game in 2 years.

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Psychonauts 2 got a delay thanks to MS, they talk about it in their episodes of the game's development. They probably would release the game sooner if it wasn't for them. I feel that you are making *some* stuff up to make it seem like stuff hasn't changed when it actually has - One of the biggest ones is obviously that having more teams means that they don't need to rush stuff out of the door so they have *something* out. Spencer and Booty also talked about that.

I also doubt that Forza is a) coming out on the Series X launch and b) got a year off just because of that. You talk about the internal desire but they didn't really have room to do that when Forza was one of the few constant releases from MS's publishing/first party group.

 

[litebrite]

The ultimate test is yet to be seen - can Xbox Series X (or XCloud maybe) make any headway in Japan?

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That's not the ultimate test or a test that really matters. The console market is Japan has been gradually declining.

 

[Danteyke223]

The ultimate test is yet to be seen - can Xbox Series X (or XCloud maybe) make any headway in Japan?

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Japan became irrelevant even for the PS4 in the long run.

 

[rokkerkory]

MS is really going all in now. Mattrick was really terrible for the brand and direction... super glad Spencer is there.

Now they have to bring the goods for sure, they are still in catch up wrt to 1st party games but they are super leading with services and infrastructure.

 

[Dimajjio]

That's not the ultimate test or a test that really matters. The console market is Japan has been gradually declining.

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Japan became irrelevant even for the PS4 in the long run.

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Well that sucks. Those guys don't know what they're missing if all they're playing on is Nintendo Switch or iPhone.

 

[litebrite]

Well that sucks. Those guys don't know what they're missing if all they're playing on is Nintendo Switch or iPhone.

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Don't get me wrong, MS has a much better chance making headway in Japan with Game Pass/XCloud and accessing Mobile, Tablets, and PC's.

 

[Alucardx23]

That be Don Mattrick

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[Deleted member 51691]

Not sure what's up, but the Gamespot interview is actually from months ago even though the article's date is from a few days ago.

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Yeah, I thought the quote about pulling Minecraft from PS4 sounded familiar.

 

[Ryu]

People can hate on Spencer and or Xbox all they want. One thing is certain: Spencer is one of the best things that could have happened to the gaming scene. Complete transparency, support for more than just the one hardware that you sell and with Gamepass, one of the best subscriptions that you can probably buy right now. The Xbox Series X is simply an amazing piece of hardware, so there you go. I hope the whole thing pays off, because if one company earned it for the endeavours in the last few years after the backlash that was the Xbox One reveal, it's Phil and his team. Never was one who owned one console besides from Sony or Nintendo, but right now, the Xbox Series X more than just looks like a good buy.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Sony has about 700 PS Now titles and Gamepass has about 150 IIRC.

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Console Wars Episode XVXVIII. Tribalism is dumb.

 

[iareharSon]

That be Don Mattrick

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I'd argue that Terry Myerson and Balmer were just as awful for Xbox. Balmer tucked Xbox under Myerson in the Window's division, and starved their operating budget down to the bare minimum. Mattrick made a lot of stupid choices, but the biggest thing screwing over Xbox for much of this generation was a genuine lack of a budget.

Even once Mattrick was ousted, there wasn't a lot that Spencer could do until Xbox was given a seat at the table and Spencer started reporting directly to Nadella. He simply didn't have the resources to do much, which is why he focused so heavily on services and features until recently.

 

[Cranster]

Since Mattrick left and Phil Spencer took over, the following things have happened.

• Unbundled Kinect, significant price drop.
• The death of Kinect as a whole
• Xbox Elite Controller
• Improved Xbox One S model, significantly improved Xbox One X model
• Minecraft purchase, the most valuable addition to Microsoft's gaming lineup since the launch of the original Xbox
• Initiative to bring Xbox console games to PC
• Initiative to bring Xbox console games to other platforms when appropriate (Steam, Switch)
• Huge push for crossplay between Xbox, PC, and other platforms before the idea hit mainstream (Fortnite)
• Xbox GamePass
• PC GamePass, and GamePass Ultimate
• Significant investment in first party studios (staffing up studios like 343, Coalition, and Playgrounds, bringing on a lot of additional studios to work on Xbox Game Studios games)
• Concentrated effort towards Japanese third parties to get more games on Xbox (Neir Automata, Yakuza, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy Backlog, ect).
• Huge push to get Indies on Xbox with GamePass deals.

None of this was happening in 2013, so in 5 short years, Microsoft has really done a bang up job bringing back a company that felt like it was on life support for a while. It's not perfect, I think Spencer has a habit of promising things before anything is set in stone sometimes, but the level of transparancy is honestly refreshing and I feel very good about the future of Xbox.

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This post here nails it.

Anyone who say's Phil is just a PR guy and all talk are just low level trolling now.

 

[Pasha]

That's what we are hearing since 5 years for now.

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If you can pull AAA Sony/Nintendo quality game out of thin air within a couple of years time then you should seek a job in the gaming industry, any publisher would pay you millions a year to keep you.

So what does count then? I am here for the games, so yeah. It's what counts for me.

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It counts when you compare their level of commitment prior to Phils taking a lead role. That's what this thread is about.

I know what's announced. The question is how these games turn out and when they will be released. I am really looking forward to Halo, but I can't be less interested in Hellblade 2 (first game was shit IMO) and EverWild. Fable from Playground might be interesting but I am still hoping that they create something original. I don't see why we should return to Fable. The IP peaked with the first game and it went downhill from there (I still enjoyed my time with 2+3 though).

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It doesn't matter how those games will come out. What matter is if they are committed to the industry or not. Making quality products and IPs takes time, commitment and investment into the first party studios, this isn't a magic trick where you can just pull a AAA 10/10 game out of a hat.

 

[Melhadf]

Props on them for keeping Minecraft on Playstation.

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It's all about that sales data. Easiest way to see how each platform is doing is having the same popular game on everything. $2.5billion was cheap for the data they've acquired to expand their gaming offering with.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Since Mattrick left and Phil Spencer took over, the following things have happened.

• Unbundled Kinect, significant price drop.
• The death of Kinect as a whole
• Xbox Elite Controller
• Improved Xbox One S model, significantly improved Xbox One X model
• Minecraft purchase, the most valuable addition to Microsoft's gaming lineup since the launch of the original Xbox
• Initiative to bring Xbox console games to PC
• Initiative to bring Xbox console games to other platforms when appropriate (Steam, Switch)
• Huge push for crossplay between Xbox, PC, and other platforms before the idea hit mainstream (Fortnite)
• Xbox GamePass
• PC GamePass, and GamePass Ultimate
• Significant investment in first party studios (staffing up studios like 343, Coalition, and Playgrounds, bringing on a lot of additional studios to work on Xbox Game Studios games)
• Concentrated effort towards Japanese third parties to get more games on Xbox (Neir Automata, Yakuza, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy Backlog, ect).
• Huge push to get Indies on Xbox with GamePass deals.

None of this was happening in 2013, so in 5 short years, Microsoft has really done a bang up job bringing back a company that felt like it was on life support for a while. It's not perfect, I think Spencer has a habit of promising things before anything is set in stone sometimes, but the level of transparancy is honestly refreshing and I feel very good about the future of Xbox.

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This is a fantastic recap of Xbox listening to the consumer.

 

[LuigiMario]

This thread is full of people talking abasolute shite.

- It takes time to make stuff
- Sony's output has been better received and has been consistently good (though not always top notch, but you know what? If you love it, good, that's the fucking point of all this)
- MS's output is not shite because of that fact, per se (the 'winner takes all' mentality is fucking ridiculous and unhelpful), though some has definitely been worse than it could/should have been
- The change from MS 2013 to MS 2019 is absolutely stark, and to pretend otherwise is to be facetious, at best.

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Another thing too, look at all the whiffs Sony had during PS3 that led them to having an incredibly successful first party lineup on PS4. Games like Socom Confrontation, Genji, God of War Ascension, Afrika, Lair, PlayStation All Stars, Heavenly Sword, and many others. Games that really missed the mark in some way. Hell, Sony didn't even want to publish one of their most influential games, Demon Souls, outside of Japan, leaving that to Atlus. The misses of PS3 all lead to a very tight, polished, and mostly successful lineup of games on PS4, and they deserve to be recognized for that, but pretending it's "too late" for MIcrosoft to make a comeback always seemed egregious.

 

[Nome]

I'm always amazed that people can be so passionate about a corporate executive.

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Good leadership makes or breaks an organization. The good ones are worth every penny of their salary.

 

[Knight613]

Nadella has been all about the services model that Xbox is going into now. It's done wonders for Microsoft as a whole.

 

[riotous]

It's all about that sales data. Easiest way to see how each platform is doing is having the same popular game on everything. $2.5billion was cheap for the data they've acquired to expand their gaming offering with.

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What in the world?

MS didn't need to buy Minecraft to know how well games are doing on Playstation; that data is out there for them to see or buy.

 

[GaussianMultivariate]

I wonder how much would Sony pay to get Phil Spencer. I'm not saying Phil would be Sony (maybe he would), but at least they'd hit MS hard.

 

[snail_maze]

I don't know much about xbox but I never expected to see the MCC on steam so I'm cool with whoever decided to allow that

 

[daTRUballin]

It's kinda scary to think that there was a time where Microsoft's CEO viewed Xbox as being expendable. So glad that things are moving in a better direction.

Things weren't always so rosy even AFTER Spencer took over. I recently revisited the thread about Lionhead and Press Play being closed down back at the old site and things looked so bleak for the Xbox division then. There was so much doom and gloom and many "predictions" about MS going out of the console business lol. That kind of viewpoint is hilarious in retrospect, but this was back when MS had like 5 studios left and the Xbox One hanging around their neck. And this was in 2016. Phil was already 2 years into his current job.

Man, how far things have come since then haha. Still sad to think that Lionhead is gone though......

 

[nekkid]

I wonder how much would Sony pay to get Phil Spencer. I'm not saying Phil would be Sony (maybe he would), but at least they'd hit MS hard.

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He's far more likely to go upwards within Microsoft than go to Sony.

 

[Thatguy]

I haven't counted, but I'm pretty sure I saw some recently say that Game Pass has over 300 games. But Game Passes biggest draw isn't the amount of games on it, but it's curated quality content. That's why it gets so much more exposure and excitement than the competition.

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"curated quality content" is a matter of opinion. Have you been to the PSNow site and looked at the library lately? The home page is full of what many would consider to be "curated quality content". I'm not saying PSNow is better, I'm just taking issue with the thought that Xbox is the first or best "Netflix for games" option. They're definitely not first and not the most and it can be argued which has the more "high quality" titles.

 

[Bradbatross]

"curated quality content" is a matter of opinion. Have you been to the PSNow site and looked at the library lately? The home page is full of what many would consider to be "curated quality content". I'm not saying PSNow is better, I'm just taking issue with the thought that Xbox is the first or best "Netflix for games" option. They're definitely not first and not the most and it can be argued which has the more "high quality" titles.

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They may not be the first gaming subscription service, but they're definitely the best. Sony needs to start getting games launching on the service day one, whether it's first-party or third party, in order to try yo match Game Pass.

It's OK that MS/Xbox is doing something better than the competition. It doesn't mean that Sony is going bankrupt or is going to "lose" next-gen.