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Phil Spencer prefers frame rate over resolution - future titles will focus more on that
- Thread starter Earvin Infinity
- Start date
I think I agree with Phil here.
It's been real nice having a 144Hz monitor at 1080p for a while now. I'd maybe say 1440p would be the sweet spot. Can still get those high framerates with a little resolution bump and I'd be gravy. But for now, totally cool with how things are. Maybe one day I'll say otherwise when it's easier to do 4K at 120Hz with settings cranked up.
It's been real nice having a 144Hz monitor at 1080p for a while now. I'd maybe say 1440p would be the sweet spot. Can still get those high framerates with a little resolution bump and I'd be gravy. But for now, totally cool with how things are. Maybe one day I'll say otherwise when it's easier to do 4K at 120Hz with settings cranked up.
It doesn't fit the narrative of the Sony Stan that there is anything genuine about Phil. I agree he's a suit, but one of the better ones, but to them he doesn't *actually* game and is faking it (maybe paying somebody to pretend to be him on his gamertag? Crazy shit). To them, he is exploiting disabled gamers with the accessibility controller and so on as opposed to doing something good. There's nothing real about him to them. Hell, people who have shit on xcloud are stanning for Stadia. There's really obvious patterns exposed in all this shit.
Some of them are dialing back decades and putting dollar signs in Microsoft's acronym.
You do the math.
For the record, I'm wary of every digital media company and that includes Google, Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Disney, Nintendo, and others. Phil isn't somebody I think is fake. Hell, he might be a tool of Microsoft, just like all these other companies have tools, but if so he's less intentionally benign...or maybe he's just so good he actually does good things and that's why we should be wary....maybe the problem with Phil, is he's just *too* good.
1440p isn't a television resolution. It does a weird non integer scale to 4K. I'm not saying there's no place for it in consoles, but it will always be on the fringe. People who play consoles on computer displays aren't important enough to consider. Consoles pair with televisions for most gamers, and 1440p TVs don't exist.
Having a significantly larger amount of 60fps games on their console is probably one of the few things that could get me on board with Xbox. I'm not going to jump in though until we see how it actually plays out.
I mean, we heard it at the start of the current gen, and a lot of games really made the transition to 60fps, way more than last gen, 60fps is almost a standard now for multiplayer games.
It's only logical for things to improve even more next gen when the consoles are designed with that in mind, and actually have competent CPUs.
Good guy Phil knows what we want.
I am legit excited to see how Xbox tackles next gen, they're seem to be on a great track.
I am legit excited to see how Xbox tackles next gen, they're seem to be on a great track.
Graphically? Not even close to Horizon, RDR2, Assassins Creed and Death Stranding.
Nah way too many games especially AAA single player ones still run at 30fps. What mitigated the issue somewhat is the mid-gen refreshes, but the base consoles still continue to be struggle city. I'm only hopeful for next-gen because of the VRR support, and I'm hoping devs will at least give you an option to run it unlocked for people with VRR supported TVs.
Having pretty graphics doesn't make 30 FPS any better though - it's still 30 FPS. There's little you can do to fix 30 FPS motion, other than rendering at a higher frame rate.
It may be your choice to prefer 30 FPS because you care about static resolution over moving resolution or gameplay, but it doesn't change that 30 FPS is bad for motion.
The only thing that stops 30 FPS juddering in motion is to cover it up with motion blur so that you can't see anything. Well, 30Hz black frame insertion also works, but most people aren't going to tolerate 30Hz flicker.
What I hope is that next-gen reconstruction techniques will have game developers targeting 60 FPS because the image will look like native 4K as soon as you stop moving - which is all the 30 FPS crowd cares about.
Lots of current-gen games are already rendering 1440p. Integer scaling is not relevant in games using TAA and reconstruction techniques to output a 4K/8K image.
I assumed that anyone saying 30 FPS is "fine" would have meant "30 FPS with good frame pacing" because bad frame-pacing is terrible at any frame rate.
The problem is that this is not how things work.
If GPU load was all that mattered, you could absolutely set things up that way.
4K30 would be equivalent to 1440p at 67.5 FPS, or 1080p 120 FPS.
But as you increase frame rate, the CPU requirements also go up.
If a game is built for 30 FPS and is pushing the CPU, it doesn't matter if you drop the resolution to 480p. You aren't going to be running the game at 120 FPS. It may not even hit 60.
I mean, I would bet that most people don't have TVs yet that even support 120hz.
Good, this must be the path forward. The fact that 30 FPS are normal on consoles is crazy to me.
Given the cross gen nature of the early set of titles this is probably the easiest thing to do for developers. Having vastly rework world geometry, shaders, textures, etc for Base Xbox One, One X, and X Series without even considering PC would be a nightmare. Much less time consuming to simply take what's 1400-1800P/30FPS on the One X and crank up setting or two up and render at 4K/60 on the X Series.
Yep, especially 4k/120, but a whole bunch of TVs will have HDMI 2.1 this upcoming year. It is definitely going to be the standard. If you have a high-end TV from the last couple of years you might also have support up to 4k/120, especially an OLED!
Music to my ears Phil, its about time framerate gets prioritized on consoles.
Sadly I suspect that ray tracing will stand in the way for that to actually happen, that said Im really excited to see ray tracing implemented.
Sadly I suspect that ray tracing will stand in the way for that to actually happen, that said Im really excited to see ray tracing implemented.
Yeah, I know. Doesn't really change what I said though. Definitely talking more generally not console specific.
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Remember in 2009 when Insomniac did some half-assed market research, "proved" that no one really cared about framerate, and decided to abandon 60 FPS?
The industry has come a long way since then.
The industry has come a long way since then.
I think people are talking about threads like this
Red Dead Redemption II PC performance thread
(Click for general game info.) 🖥️ System requirements: 🧰 Latest drivers: (as at 24/02/2022) AMD: 22.2.2 Nvidia: 511.79 📊 Benchmarks: ComputerBase (German; 06/11/2019 build[?]) GamersNexus (English; launch build; CPU-focused) GamersNexus (English; 06/11/2019 build[?]; CPU-focused) GamersNexus...
www.resetera.com
I get it, some people like that kind of stuff, many don't. Give me an option like in Borderlands 3, Performance or Resolution, that's enough for me
I honestly doubt any games, except for maybe the simplest of the simplest will actually run at 8k native.
If every single game had a 60FPS mode on consoles my gaming habits would change significantly as a PC gamer. I have my beefy PC hooked to my TV and it's my preferred gaming method by far, but a console would be more convenient at that guaranteed level of performance and a decent laptop should be more than enough to play all the PC exclusives I'm into.
But as it is the prevalence of 30FPS games on consoles is unbearable.
But as it is the prevalence of 30FPS games on consoles is unbearable.
Phil just keeps on saying all the right things.
This is the future I have been hoping for and the main reason why I recently bought an LG C9 OLED with 120Hz support and HDMI 2.1. Gimme those sweet, sweet frames!
This is the future I have been hoping for and the main reason why I recently bought an LG C9 OLED with 120Hz support and HDMI 2.1. Gimme those sweet, sweet frames!
#ourguy
Most new games in 2021 on consoles should have performance mode. Developer aims for 4k/30fps? That's great, but add performance mode with lower resolution too and maybe ray tracing off for people that love smoother experience. Options are good thing.
Most new games in 2021 on consoles should have performance mode. Developer aims for 4k/30fps? That's great, but add performance mode with lower resolution too and maybe ray tracing off for people that love smoother experience. Options are good thing.
That still holds true. Framerate doesn't seem to influence sales.
I think it does. I think people not understanding what "Frames Per Second" is or means, or being unable to convey why they prefer games at 60fps, is the issue.
I am absolutely certain that being such a fluid experience at 60fps is what made COD4: Modern Warfare blow up, and keep every COD since so popular. On consoles it was just that much quicker and responsive compared to anything else, especially at the time but to an extent still is.
Strange then, that Nintendo, Activision, and Microsoft, to name a few, are clearly putting time, effort, and money towards 60 FPS. I don't think they'd bother if they didn't think it would influence quality, and therefore sales.
Let's say Nintendo saved on some dev time and money to let Mario Kart 8 out at 30 FPS. Are you proposing that wouldn't have had any sales impact?
Had resolution ever been mandated? Last gen we have sub 720p games. This gen we have sub 1080p games.
The man is correct. All modern displays can do 60 fps. Let´s have consoles catch up. The SNES gen was the last one that targeted 60 and 50 in Europe.
Unless we are talking about walking games and whatnot. They can stay @30 fps and flex their resolution muscles.
Unless we are talking about walking games and whatnot. They can stay @30 fps and flex their resolution muscles.
True, but if Will of the Wisps is expected to have a long shelf-life then such a forward-thinking feature would be welcome!
It's not like they can't patch it in later. How many TVs even supports that high frame rate if any? And what do they cost?
List of tvs from this year that support 120hz:
Drastically better. I think diminishing returns applies to the hardware and how far forward the tech can be pushed for a certain amount of money. I don't think it applies to the talent that uses the tools. So now that we're getting a proper jump in technology....you're going to see a proper jump from the oh so talented devs out there. And if you agree to say that Hellblade trailer is real representation of what we can get then you also have to agree that bar can rise as the gen goes on. I'm positive death stranding built exclusively for next gen systems would look a generation better than what you got on ps4.
Better to go checkerboard 4k with dynamic than using an arbitrary PC resolution for consoles.
The 7th gen OLEDs are hugely popular among gamers here and support 1080p at 120hz.
The number of TVs that are actually in living rooms that support 1080p/120 is absolutely massive compared to the quantity that can take 1440p. Heck, those 7th gen OLEDs? They take 1440p at 30fps and not one frame higher; useless.