Exactly. I think hes talking more about what he would like as a designer.
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Phil Spencer: New Banjo-Kazooie and Conker are up to Rare.
- Thread starter HibbySloth
- Start date
I think it's great that Rare want to make new things, and not rehash their past IP forever. And I get what Mayles says about it needing to be something that would creatively interest him, not just "another Banjo game". They already did that in 2008 with Nuts & Bolts, and no one bought it despite it being a really inventive game.
Suspect if you see another Banjo game, it'll be like Killer Instinct and Battletoads, where Rare were in a kinda consultation role, rather than developing it. Of course, this assumes there are studios calling them with pitches on a new Banjo game in the first place.
Suspect if you see another Banjo game, it'll be like Killer Instinct and Battletoads, where Rare were in a kinda consultation role, rather than developing it. Of course, this assumes there are studios calling them with pitches on a new Banjo game in the first place.
If we ever see a new Banjo or Conker, I want Rare to make it. And while I can respect other developers having a passion for the IP, I'm so tired of Rare outsourcing their games. I'm willing to wait if need be, but I hope they make it. I want to see Rare tackle both new ideas AND return to older ones.
Who says it absolutely cannot work? Just like with a new Banjo, I'm sure if you have the right team with the right ideas, you can hit on something that works. We haven't even seen any attempt at a new Conker game since 2001. We literally don't even know how much potential the IP really has.
As for the humor not aging well.......Well, of course. If we're talking about a game that came out nearly 20 years ago. I'm sure a modern take on that style of game could be interesting.
And if it were Rare themselves making it, we wouldn't just get the same N64 game except with prettier graphics. Craig Duncan and Gregg Mayles have always talked about how Rare wouldn't go back to an IP unless it can do something interesting and different with it. I'm sure it won't be a Yooka Laylee situation.
Who says it absolutely cannot work? Just like with a new Banjo, I'm sure if you have the right team with the right ideas, you can hit on something that works. We haven't even seen any attempt at a new Conker game since 2001. We literally don't even know how much potential the IP really has.
As for the humor not aging well.......Well, of course. If we're talking about a game that came out nearly 20 years ago. I'm sure a modern take on that style of game could be interesting.
And if it were Rare themselves making it, we wouldn't just get the same N64 game except with prettier graphics. Craig Duncan and Gregg Mayles have always talked about how Rare wouldn't go back to an IP unless it can do something interesting and different with it. I'm sure it won't be a Yooka Laylee situation.
All hope is not lost if Rare doesn't want to make it themselves. We got a new Battletoads, Killer Instinct and Rare Replay this generation. Fingers crossed for Perfect Dark and Banjo in the next. The dream would be asking Playtonic if they might be interested, possibly in a cross-over with Yooka-Laylee, but if not some other opportunity might present itself.
I also want another Battletoads from Dlala..
I also want another Battletoads from Dlala..
I'd be so down for this.
The mastermind behind Banjo-Kazooie and Tooie music is Grant Kirkhope, and he left Rare long ago. Is not hard to find on the internet some stuff about "how badly Microsoft treated Rare" while he was still there, by the way.
Beanland composed some tracks for Nuts & Bolts though (N&B was Kirkhope's last game before he left the studio).
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Yooka was a decent game that could have been better with a longer dev time and more investment. Hobestly the level design is just not very good and that is what the best thing about banjo kazooie was.
Given how well mario does I am pretty sure a well put together platformer based around bk would sell reasonably and be a hit on gamepass with younger gamers.
Given how well mario does I am pretty sure a well put together platformer based around bk would sell reasonably and be a hit on gamepass with younger gamers.
The Donkey Kong "guys" became the Banjo-Kazooie "guys" after DKC2. The Donkey Kong IP went to a different team for DKC3 and DK64, so even under the Rare banner people didn't really stick to Donkey Kong very long.
The original team was actually mostly still around for Nuts & Bolts but it was more a new idea with classic characters mixed in (though since Banjo drives in quite a few games I'd argue it wasn't actually all that weird for the IP to add vehicles to the mix). The DKC/BK team also did cult classic Ghoulies as well as Viva Piñata, which is largely held up as the game that best captured Rare's magic in the 360 era.
While VV and TfB would likely do a great job with remaking Banjo-Kazooie, it's unlikely because those studios are owned by Activision-Blizzard. They're going to continue making Crash, Spyro and potentially Skylanders content for the foreseeable future.
Playtonic is a viable option though.
Ratchet indeed does look incredible and of course Banjo Kazooie could get a similar treatment. But the developers would need to want to make it and I like Spencer's stance as the Head of Xbox and VP of Gaming at Microsoft to let the developers decide for themselves. This wasn't the case under other Head of Xbox guys.
You dont have to take it out of their hands. Im sure rare is ok with other studios doing those games. Its a matter of asking. And they have been doing it for a while. Taking it away from them to FORCE a studio to work on it that maybe doesnt want to is a terrible idea.
Nuts and Bolts was a superb soundtrack so I have no concerns with Beanland taking over from Kirkhopes work.
And MS part of your post has been debunked multiple times from the Devs themselves, they were hands off, you think a game like Viva Pinata would've been green lit of they're weren't? We've got plenty of accounts from devs like Duncun Botwood, Chris Sutherland saying as much (1:25):
Chris Sutherland - Interview #1 - Tour du monde
LIS LA DESCRIPTION Y'A DES INFOS IMPORTANTES :Interview réalisée dans le cadre du tour du monde que nous faisons avec la coke TV gaming, voici la vidéo origi...
youtu.be
In fact MS improved the work environment since the Stampers were were quite draconian with how they managed the studio, oppressively so, Martin Hollis was let go and Free Radical was spun up because of how harsh conditions were for devs, it's all detailed here:
Perfect Dark: the oral history of an N64 classic
Delays, technical problems and walkouts over money and crunch could have killed Rare's spiritual sequel to GoldenEye. 2…
www.eurogamer.net
It was during Don Matrick period when things got decidedly worse for them, but that changed with Phil stepping in and asking them to make a "Rare game for today's audience": (34.00)
Rare at the Herbert: "Tales From Twycross" Developer Panel
Held at the Herbert Art Gallery & Museum in Coventry on September 15th 2018, this panel supported our summer 2018 exhibition entitled Rare: From 8-bit to Xbo...
youtu.be
Rare have always liked making new I.Ps, they don't like doing the same thing for too long, it's how its always been. This brain drain trope only fits if they weren't still putting out new inventive and successful games, which they have been. They're a place for nurturing talent still, Playtonic supports that, given people that entered Rare under MS are now part of that team.
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rare did consult with Dlala on the battletoads game that just came out so like maybe once day but I feel like the anticipation of banjo threeie and overall banjo nostalgia is bigger than the active audience
I think you're missing my point. I don't really care if Rare decides to release a new Banjo game, that's not I was talking about. Banjo-Tooie is my favourite game of all time and to this day I still think modern Rare wouldn't be able to recreate something that good, Gregg Mayles on it or not.
Most of the Nuts & Bolts' Soundtrack was composed by Kirkhope so, whatever. Beanland did a splendid work, but most of his themes weren't all-in new, having Kirkhope's original themes tossed around (even Showdown Town was composed by Kirkhope).
And by the way, I can also show some interviews where Grant shows unpleasant feelings towards Microsoft during 2010 (and it's not the only one) and I'm more inclined to believe him considering David Wise left too, key members at Playtonic are also older Rare devs ans so on. However, nowadays it is widely accepted that Microsoft seems to be "in good terms" with Rare and that's good.
Still, kind of hard for me to believe "Rare was hand off" just watching the amount of cancelled games for "no reason" that existed after being bought by Microsoft and a few years after. Pretty sure Rare wanted to do Kinect Sports 1 AND 2.
So yeah, Rare overall is a sad story. And we don't talk about some Microsoft executives thinking they bought "Donkey Kong" as a whole too. Or, which saddens me the most, the Mundo Rare case.
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Mayles' tweets sound like another Nuts and Bolts disaster.
If they're making banjo a battle royale, gacha ww2 moba fps with crafting in order to appeal to kids, they better just leave the franchise alone.
If they're making banjo a battle royale, gacha ww2 moba fps with crafting in order to appeal to kids, they better just leave the franchise alone.
Seems like Moon Studios needs a second team. If I were Phil I'd throw money at them to take on Banjo.
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Grand Theft Auto isn't trying to sell an M rated game with a cartoony mascot plastered on the cover.
Thank you for this. I can never completely blame Rare for their downfall in the mid 00's-early 10's on them alone. Gregg Mayles and Tim Stamper may have been the ones to come up with Nuts & Bolts, but Microsoft shitcanned a lot of other games Rare wanted to do. The old Rare and the Don Mattrick lead Xbox division were never a good fit.
I mean, it's not like the Ice Climbers got a revival after they appeared in Smash.
Why are you comparing Banjo Kazooie being to Ice Climbers? The latter is just a standalone game.
Do you think both things are comparable?
The talk of a new Banjo-Kazooie is specially relevant in the current landscape, in which 3D platformers collection are selling a ton.
Because Smash is loaded with legacy characters that either only ever appeared in one or two games, and third-party characters getting in as DLC doesn't translate to an imminent series revival. BK got into Smash based off of years and years of fan requests from people that played the games on the N64.
That's a weak argument, we live in a golden era of mature cartoons and Conker is a pre-existing IP so everybody knows what to expect with him.
I'm not saying that a Smash inclusion translates to a series revival, I'm saying that they should take advantage of the Smash inclusion to make a series revival.
Smash made Banjo relevant again in the eyes of fans that remember his games on the N64 and loved finally seeing him in Smash. But his success as a DLC character in a Switch game isn't necessarily going to mean that Microsoft or any Xbox studio will want to make a new Banjo for an Xbox audience.
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Back when Live & Reloaded released, Wal-Mart refused to sell the game despite that some of their stores had sold the N64 version which was less censored. GTA has had it's own controversy but it's clear that it knows what it wants to be. It's not Rockstar's fault the game gets into kid's hands due to bad parenting.
I don't think you would have to completely reinvent Conker. The Battletoads came back and it feels like an Adult Swim cartoon. I just severely doubt you could do the exact same humor and jokes in Bad Fur Day and sell it today.
Despite the vocal demand being there and a lack of platformers for the Xbox Series X?
Come on, if Battletoads can get a revival then why can't Banjo and Kazooie? I know they have their reasons but they're fairly weak reasons.
Vocal internet demand doesn't always pan out to sales.
And you saw that Battletoads revival, right? That game is like a low-budget bad joke.
The Battletoads revival sold well so the revival was worth the financial investment so I'm failing to see why Banjo Kazooie can't be revived with a different developer.
"Because Battletoads did well for its budget and expectations, a Banjo revival should be pursued" is a flawed argument in itself.
I don't think Smash inclusion means much. F-Zero GX came out shortly after Melee and Captain Falcon has always been one of the more popular characters
Holy shit.
This guy gets it so much. Banjo Tooie is a piece of shit. Yooka laylee sucked. Banjo Kazooie is GOAT and the people at Moon Studios obviously understand exactly why.
Rare please. That is a dream collaboration in my opinion.
The only thing is well I have no doubt Moon Studios can produce a great 3D platformer, I don't know if Moon Studios would be able to match the wit or Scheer variety of the original game.
Please thomasmahler make it happen.
I've been dreaming for years and years thst someone would return to the original Banjo Kazooie and make a proper sequal to that game.
Wouldn't a new Conker just be a parody of the Marvel films & possibly DC films?
I don't think conker is ever happening at least not as a true sequel to BFD because it would offend some people and 2020 MS won't do that.
I didn't "grow up" with Banjo (I had an N64 but neither of the Banjo games), but I'd still appreciate a well designed 3D platformer. If the games were good on their own design merits then you can appeal to everyone, including people unfamiliar with the originals. It's why something like The Force Awakens was able to be a huge box office success despite being kind of a retread.
Personally I'd prefer Microsoft take some leadership with this and find some studio (whether 1st party or 2nd party) that has the pedigree and passion to bring these franchises back (or some other mascot). I think Mascot platformers are still important to certain demographic and bring diversity to a lineup. Today's Sackboy fan is tomorrow's Kratos/Nathan Drake fan.
You mean a neat and fun idea that people shunned because it wasn't another bog standard Banjo platformer?
I don´t want to bother you thomasmahler but if at any time you could pitch MS a idea for a new Banjo game you would be in the way to make many many fans really happy.
I have played your two masterpieces, Ori 1 & 2, and I think Moon Studios could come up with a fantastic 3D platformer.
I have played your two masterpieces, Ori 1 & 2, and I think Moon Studios could come up with a fantastic 3D platformer.
What. No it's not.
A Banjo Kazooie revival can work in today's market. Your counterarguments have been contrary for the sake of being contrarian.
F-Zero is a Nintendo IP that's associated with Shigeru Miyamoto, I think the rules for that are slightly different.
I just think they don't have the bottle for it. All this bullshit about it having to offer something different is just an excuse. Rare know they can't match the heavy weight of expectation that comes with a beloved game like BK. They just don't have the right talent to make it I feel.
(note I specifically said RIGHT talent)
(note I specifically said RIGHT talent)
I will say, last thing I want is a developer working on a game they don't want to make because the end result won't be good. Current Rare has made it known that they don't have a lot of interest in going back to their classic franchises. So i think the path forward is for MS to put out feelers to different devs both internally and externally to see if there's interest out there from a team to make a new Banjo.
And just let Conker die. As a platformer it was a subpar one at the time that featured sub-Ren & Stimpy humor and what were mostly dated references even at the time. Conker just really doesn't make sense in 2020 unless there's some sort of significant rethink of what it is. I have no idea what the quality of any aspect of that new Battletoads was but the approach they took with that game I feel like would almost make more sense to do with a Conker reboot. Get some outside writing talent, don't be too precious with it, and take it in more of the "adult cartoon TV show" direction. Either way, Conker would require a significant degree of work to revitalize and modernize and since there's little to suggest that a new Conker would actually be a big seller I can't see them taking a chance on it (especially since that new Battletoads kind of came and went).
And just let Conker die. As a platformer it was a subpar one at the time that featured sub-Ren & Stimpy humor and what were mostly dated references even at the time. Conker just really doesn't make sense in 2020 unless there's some sort of significant rethink of what it is. I have no idea what the quality of any aspect of that new Battletoads was but the approach they took with that game I feel like would almost make more sense to do with a Conker reboot. Get some outside writing talent, don't be too precious with it, and take it in more of the "adult cartoon TV show" direction. Either way, Conker would require a significant degree of work to revitalize and modernize and since there's little to suggest that a new Conker would actually be a big seller I can't see them taking a chance on it (especially since that new Battletoads kind of came and went).
Haha
I'm personally not very invested in Banjo but I'm all for a new Conker... Which will never happen lol. But I completely understand Rare's position here as well. Online pleas for revivals do not always guarantee great sales and the last thing anyone wants to do is plummet their company into millions of dollars of debt. The new Crash looks great but sales thus far haven't been so hot, Shenmue III sold like Poison Ivy Dildos, Mirror's Edge was revived only to plunge back into obscurity, etc and so on. I just hope Skate 4 is successful.
I'm saying that Battletoada and BK are two different franchises and a new BK would have a different audience expectation/budget. Nintendo doesn't base demand for a new F-Zero on how well Metroid did.