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Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,146
LMAO. Sure there were many people that said that, but trying to tie both of those groups somehow into the same is laughable. Disney buying essentially up the Movie Industry over the years is terrible and should be held up as a warning for what's to come with Games and why this shit shouldn't happen in the first place.

You didn't understand.

Since Disney acquisitions were not seen as a monopoly on the movie/media industry, then any claim about Microsoft being a monopoly in the gaming industry makes absolutely NO SENSE. The gaming landscape is way too big to have one unique player on the field and MS acquiring Zenimax changes nothing.
 

Kittenz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,156
Minneapolis
I try to "shop local" as much as possible.

I always kick devs money thru DLC or in-game currency for free or Game Pass or ultracheap games that I like and play for a good while.

Etc.

so I'm not a huge proponent of the consolidation either. Having said that, they can't have "the Xbox has no gamez" be the mantra forever. They put out like 13 1st party titles last year. With 23 studios, if each gets out two this gen, that's 46 over 6-7 years, or 7+ a year. In a really affordable manner for me, as of now.

I hate it. But I like it. I really really like it. It's quite the conundrum. I feel dirty.
 
Sep 7, 2020
2,340
Hoping that Microsoft owns the entire industry is not a good thing for the consumer lol. Imagine them forcing you to pay at least
Netflix Revenue for 2019 was 20.15 billion and they spent 15 billion in 2019 to buy, produce and license content.
Xbox revenue for 2019 was 11.4 Billion.

The cost to produce a AAA game is anywhere from 50 million to 100+ million.

What do these numbers mean . . . I don't know. I was thinking about what type of expenditure is sustainable to allow Gamepass to remain at $10-$15 dollar range and still be profitable and I gave up but I just wanted to share the numbers.
Oh Gamepass is definitely going up in the next 2-3 years once they get enough content and people invested. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't go up to $20-30 a month.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,642
Microsoft is getting busy. Should have gotten their head of our their ass and did this years ago. Something along these line was always going to happen once Microsoft figured out how to stop being their worst enemy. Gaming going forward is a battle of attrition now, one that I'd put odds on Microsoft surviving.
 

Jonnax

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,920
When it comes to consolidation, the fact is that a business won't compete with itself.

It will result in fewer games as you get a few large publishers who will (unofficially of course) coordinate their releases.

Subscription services like Gamepass worry me.

Because the idea is that you capture the market by spending big.

Then when you've got a hold of it, you start cutting back on expenses.

If it was Amazon, Facebook or Google people would be worried.
 

darthpaxton

Member
Jun 20, 2018
1,697
Are you suggested there is a future that MS doesn't put its first party games on gamepass? Lol what a PR disaster that would be. The only way those games don't come in the future is if xbox doesn't exist.
And this is why Xbox is buying studios and will continue to do so. Third-party GamePass deals for AAA games will dry up and the prices will rise dramatically. Right now, they're using AAA third-party games to increase the value of the service, but I suspect in the future, it will just be the Xbox first-party titles, titles from second-party studios that Xbox publishes, and smaller games (indies and AA-fare like Plague Tale, No Man's Sky, etc.).

This is exactly what Netflix did.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Like Sony is constantly doing by trying to make sure they get full - timed exclusivity on huge multiplatform games? even going as far as making 6 months to 2 year exclusive deals on dlcs , playable xters and basically trying to kill of the competition? Iirc they even called it "PlayStation Advantage" lol. They got timed exclusivity on deathloop and ghostwire and that wasn't enough they also wanted timed exclusivity on Starfield. I am just glad MS is no longer sitting idly by in a corner watching the competition. They have realised they need to compete aggressively like Sony has been doing, they need to invest if they want to grow and compete. GP needs subs and Xbox needs exclusives and with bigger sharks like Amazon, Google, Apple and FB jumping in there is absolutely no time to waste..

How are yourself and others trying to draw a parallel between a handful of timed or third party exclusives, versus mass scale acquisitions of developers (Microsoft has acquired 15 studios in just 2 years), among them one of the biggest publishers in the world?

And also doing this whilst simultaneously ignoring that Microsoft have had timed or third party exclusives themselves too (eg Ryse, Quantum Break, Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Plants and Zombies, Dead Rising 4, Sunset Overdrive etc).

This hasn't exactly stopped following their mass acquisition spree either, since Microsoft have already announced over 15 timed exclusives for the Series X/S as well, including AAA titles like Stalker 2, Warhammer Dark Tides and CrossFire.

The funny thing is that even prior to the acquisition of Zenimax, Microsoft actually already had a greater number of studios than Sony did.
 

Kittenz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,156
Minneapolis
Sacrifice the remaining banjo kazooie fans and get me a Viva Pinata with Animal Crossing inspirations pls
Was doing research for an article on console free-to-play and I stumbled on this childish FTP on Xbox that has some VP elements up front and got so excited but ended up being shallow and unfulfilling, though still cute.( Achievement piñata game though. They flowed out real nice.) Called Island Saver I think. Totally stole some pieces from VP but put them together wrong.

just made me wanna pop in VP again though for the millionth time. It could be so amazing on Series X all optimized and pretty. Imagine the romance dances. Phil, you coward....
 

mojo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,972
You also going to shout them out for having 4 80+ metacritic games this year? And the fact that they'll probably have at least 4 80+ MC games for the foreseeable future? Or are console launches the only time frame during which you buy video games.
eh I shout out what I want and it's not my fault their management sucks and couldn't line those games up with a console release
 

nofriendo

Member
Jun 4, 2019
1,038
Disney swallowing LucasArts, Marvel Studios, Pixar and Fox = Not a monopoly and it's OK

Microsoft buying Zenimax = That's illegal and a monopoly.

Both of these things can be bad though.

I think the worrying thing in both the movie and video game industry is that the cost of operation is so high. With cinema there is no room for middle ground anymore. Mid budget films dont generally do well in cinema anymore. The industry has moved to big event sized movies. This makes it harder for smaller companies to succeed, leaving them more open for these mega corps to come in and swallow them up.

Sadly this looks like its happening in the Video game industry now as well. What scares me is that companies like Marvel and Zenimax, no matter how big people perceive their value to be are not able to survive on their own.

Long term, where does this effect gamers ? Like the movies, MS will try and make sure as many people as possible can play/see these games. Where we lose is the middle ground. Mid budget, indie and smaller games that offer something different will be less common. Studios and devs gradually getting eaten up into the cycle of mega budget games.

All that being said, what else should MS have done ? They have been regularly criticized for their output and they cannot afford to wait 10 years to slowly build up studios. Only option was and is to buy, Zenimax were very open to this so it suits both companies.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,513
Who cares what their goal is? Why should that have any impact on how I view the practice of corporate consolidation?

I care about their goal bc their recent activity with the Xbox brand has been very favorable to me (backwards compat, the Elite controllers, GamePass). I want them to be a strong contender bc what they've brought to the table is in my interest.
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
WHAT!? They're businesses!? I HAD NO IDEA!

It doesn't matter what going to naturally happen or not. The fact is that is already has happened and it's going to be accelerated by Microsoft's move. And it's not a good thing, especially when it comes to jobs. The fact that you don't see other players being even more enticed by this shows (especially when Microsoft is going out publically stating they want more) me that you are either being willfully ignorant, you're a fanboy excited by the news of Microsoft wanting to buy more, or you're in favour of corporate consolidation. And all of those are bad. Stop trying act like this isn't a bad thing, cause it's weird.

You are projecting a lot onto me. I've never made a value statement on whether it's good or bad. The willful ignorance on display comes from you seeming to think that businesses wouldn't act this way if they had the ability by implying that Msoft "opened the door". All I said is that this is businesses operating as they always do, especially in the tech sector. I don't think there is anything particularly novel about it besides the scale. Saying that Msoft is accelerating consolidation just seems... odd. It looks to me, like the norm.
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
How are yourself and others trying to draw a parallel between a handful of timed or third party exclusives, versus mass scale acquisitions of developers (Microsoft has acquired 15 studios in just 2 years), among them one of the biggest publishers in the world?

And also doing this whilst simultaneously ignoring that Microsoft have had timed or third party exclusives themselves too (eg Ryse, Quantum Break, Titanfall, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Plants and Zombies, Dead Rising 4, Sunset Overdrive etc).

This hasn't exactly stopped following their mass acquisition spree either, since Microsoft have already announced over 15 timed exclusives for the Series X/S as well, including AAA titles like Stalker 2, Warhammer Dark Tides and CrossFire.

The funny thing is that even prior to the acquisition of Zenimax, Microsoft actually already had a greater number of studios than Sony did.
Ryse, Quantum Break and Sunset Overdrive were all first party.
 

Aerial51

Member
Apr 24, 2020
3,686
You didn't understand.

Since Disney acquisitions were not seen as a monopoly on the movie/media industry, then any claim about Microsoft being a monopoly in the gaming industry makes absolutely NO SENSE. The gaming landscape is way too big to have one unique player on the field and MS acquiring Zenimax changes nothing.
We are not talking about the defacto situation of a monopoly, because in an monopoly an entire industry is controlled by only one entity. This isn't happening anywhere so far when it comes to entertainment, but Disney owning Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar and Fox is close enough. Them not having Jurassic Park and Fast and the Furious is essentially irrelevant because they are by far the largest player in the industry and that power position allows them to just grow and grow further while slowly buying out other mega corps.
And at least when it comes to Nerd Media i wouldn't expect them to engage with that critically whatsoever but i've read articles and watched videos from people that clearly weren't huge on those buyouts.

We don't know if Microsoft in the end will buy out so much that they end up like Disney or if their bigger competitors also seriously join the arms race, i don't care because if in the End we only get Games from 3 big conglomerates or just 1 is to me essentially the same and i classify that as a monopoly because it would be impossible at that point for smaller players to achieve anything without getting dwarfed by the leaders, which is close enough to a monopoly and that's where the industry is headed with those buyouts and it fucking sucks.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I care about their goal bc their recent activity with the Xbox brand has been very favorable to me (backwards compat, the Elite controllers, GamePass). I want them to be a strong contender bc what they've brought to the table is in my interest.
I like those things too. I don't value them more than people's jobs and a healthy industry.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,116
Amalthea
Was doing research for an article on console free-to-play and I stumbled on this childish FTP on Xbox that has some VP elements up front and got so excited but ended up being shallow and unfulfilling, though still cute.( Achievement piñata game though. They flowed out real nice.) Called Island Saver I think. Totally stole some pieces from VP but put them together wrong.

just made me wanna pop in VP again though for the millionth time. It could be so amazing on Series X all optimized and pretty. Imagine the romance dances. Phil, you coward....
Ah yes I think I've heard of that, think it was published by a bank actually lol.

But yes I want a new VP so bad -_- if bloody battletoads can come back so can VP!
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,143
UK
On the back of that video game crash thread, even though I doubt anything of the sort will happen, consolidation of the industry into Sony, MS & Nintendo would be the fastest way to push that possibility down the line. The reason the industry is so vibrant right now, is because there are enough different studios, publishers, developers and the like who aren't beholden to one single behemoth, that they're able to innovate a bit more...

Consolidation would eventually lead to stagnation. It isn't a positive direction even if it "benefits" the consumer in the short term
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
These developers still have jobs and we have not seen any consolidation in force yet. I don't think larger companies with big dev teams is unhealthy for the industry.
It is, again, pure fantasy to think buying publishers won't result in massive job losses. Even if every single developer is kept, thousands of people are employed at these companies outside of direct game development. Those teams will be slaughtered, that's how corporate consolidation works.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
We don't know if Microsoft in the end will buy out so much that they end up like Disney or if their bigger competitors also seriously join the arms race, i don't care because if in the End we only get Games from 3 big conglomerates or just 1 is to me essentially the same and i classify that as a monopoly because it would be impossible at that point for smaller players to achieve anything without getting dwarfed by the leaders, which is close enough to a monopoly and that's where the industry is headed with those buyouts and it fucking sucks.

With that kind of definition the concept of a monopoly has no meaning.
 

nofriendo

Member
Jun 4, 2019
1,038
How are yourself and others trying to draw a parallel between a handful of timed or third party exclusives, versus mass scale acquisitions of developers (Microsoft has acquired 15 studios in just 2 years), among them one of the biggest publishers in the world?

The scale and pace of it definitely is crazy but how many of Sonys studios were organically started vs acquired ? Bend, Guerilla, Insomniac, Media Molecule, Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch were all acquired. So is the pace of acquisition the main issue here ?
 

Adrifi

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 5, 2019
3,466
the Spanish Basque Country
So Bleeding Edge, Grouded, Gears 5, Halo Infinite, Flight Sim... those are all games from the early days of xbox one right?
- Bleedinge Edge started development in 2014 and has nothing to do with Microsoft, Ninja Theory wanted to release it, it was one of their conditions to sell.

- I wouldn't say MFS is a GAAS game at all.

- Halo Infinite's development started in 2015, so...

- Grounded is being made by only 15 people and guess what: 95% of Obsidian is working on two single player RPGs that are definitely not GAAS games: Avowed and The Outer Worlds 2. You seem to ignore that.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
I like those things too. I don't value them more than people's jobs and a healthy industry.
All the studios they bought appear to be not in that great a financial situation. They are also trying to open up as many ways to get games to people as possible, with streaming potentially being able to bring console quality gaming to much more people in a sector of an industry that has mainly stagnated in terms of numbers of customers with ever increasing costs. Xcloud and game pass have more chance of bringing back AA games and the studios that were lost when HD gaming became a thing, then the current generation financial model does.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
All the studios they bought appear to be not in that great a financial situation. They are also trying to open up as many ways to get games to people as possible, with streaming potentially being able to bring console quality gaming to much more people in a sector of an industry that has mainly stagnated in terms of numbers of customers with ever increasing costs. Xcloud and game pass have more chance of bringing back AA games and the studios that were lost when HD gaming became a thing, then the current generation financial model does.
See above.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
and yet this forum and others on social media still spent all its time saying MS had no games.

I think the bigger issue for some was the quality of several of the key titles, not necessarily just the number of them. Guarantee if just a few more of Xbox One's exclusives were stand out GOTY style attention grabbers, the general sentiment would be very, very different.

It's also a bit of bad luck on Microsoft's part, where the third party exclusive gets they had this gen (Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Dead Rising 4, Rise of the Tomb Raider etc) weren't quite as stand out as the ones they had last gen, with Gears of War, Oblivion, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Left 4 Dead etc.
 

nofriendo

Member
Jun 4, 2019
1,038
It is, again, pure fantasy to think buying publishers won't result in massive job losses. Even if every single developer is kept, thousands of people are employed at these companies outside of direct game development. Those teams will be slaughtered, that's how corporate consolidation works.

Time will tell on this on but right now its complete guess work if anyone in Zenimax will lose their jobs. Many of the other studios acquired by MS have gone on hiring sprees. Then I suppose there is also the question of whether there would have been job loses had Zenimax not been acquired. Which again is guess work.
 

wingkongex

Member
Aug 25, 2019
2,188
I like those things too. I don't value them more than people's jobs and a healthy industry.

Why would one of the biggest companies in the world buying a video game publisher for over $7 billion make you believe the industry is less healthy as a result? Also, who has lost their jobs as a result?
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,513
It is, again, pure fantasy to think buying publishers won't result in massive job losses. Even if every single developer is kept, thousands of people are employed at these companies outside of direct game development. Those teams will be slaughtered, that's how corporate consolidation works.

I used the word 'yet.' I'm going to hold judgement based on how many people get let go. This was going to happen regardless of MS acquiring them. The only way to stop this would be to not allow companies to sell and that's not going to happen, or as you said fantasy.

I am aware there are more than just developers in these companies.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,306
Bethesda's last few games were all rushed to completion because not meeting goals would have sunk them and they all suffered. MS just delayed their marquee title past launch because they knew it needed more time. Seems like the perfect fit to me.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Time will tell on this on but right now its complete guess work if anyone in Zenimax will lose their jobs. Many of the other studios acquired by MS have gone on hiring sprees. Then I suppose there is also the question of whether there would have been job loses had Zenimax not been acquired. Which again is guess work.
No, it's not.
Why would one of the biggest companies in the world buying a video game publisher for over $7 billion make you believe the industry is less healthy as a result? Also, who has lost their jobs as a result?
MS doesn't own Zenimax yet.
You are ignoring thousands of people when you just talk about developers.
 

Brrandon

Member
Dec 13, 2019
3,072
It is, again, pure fantasy to think buying publishers won't result in massive job losses. Even if every single developer is kept, thousands of people are employed at these companies outside of direct game development. Those teams will be slaughtered, that's how corporate consolidation works.
Did they not say that everyone at zenimax will be kept on? I seem to remember them saying that bethesda will still act as its own publisher ,so all the publishing/administrative jobs will remain.
 

get2sammyb

Editor at Push Square
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
3,006
UK
Maybe it'll all work out, but I'm just curious what they're going to do if this big Game Pass experiment doesn't work. Like, I know it's a negative way of looking at things, but what if they don't hit the subscriber numbers they're targeting? What if they plough cash into this and it, y'know, doesn't work out? What happens then?
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
I used the word 'yet.' I'm going to hold judgement based on how many people get let go. This was going to happen regardless of MS acquiring them. The only way to stop this would be to not allow companies to sell and that's not going to happen, or as you said fantasy.

I am aware their are more than just developers in these companies.
...why would this have happened anyway?
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,298
Matt Booty said at the end of last year they'd talk about what the Initiative is doing sometime in 2020, obviously this was pre COVID so things have probably changed, if we do still see what their 1st project is this year, it'll be at the game awards in December.
Don't you dare give me hope, Dimple. :)
 

asd202

Enlightened
Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,557
I wonder what next big fish will get bought. Can't think of any obvious ones besides maybe WB.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
Did they not say that everyone at zenimax will be kept on? I seem to remember them saying that bethesda will still act as its own publisher ,so all the publishing/administrative jobs will remain.
That's what they always say. MS doesn't need two publishing teams, two marketing teams, separate finance teams, and on and on it goes.

Corporate consolidation means job losses. That's how these things work.
 

KillaKap

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
753
but ms has no games right? lol now we worried about them buying it all? Hollywood couldn't paint these narratives lol
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,357
Canada
It's also a bit of bad luck on Microsoft's part, where the third party exclusive gets they had this gen (Quantum Break, Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Dead Rising 4, Rise of the Tomb Raider etc) weren't quite as stand out as the ones they had last gen, with Gears of War, Oblivion, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Left 4 Dead etc.
Bolded are first party games. Microsoft published/funded them. They just came from external developers.
 

Deleted member 43

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
9,271
They were looking to be purchased.
And they could have been bought by someone who needs every part of the company.

Saying "it would have happened anyway" is just trying to justify making peace with a bad result that you favor for other reasons. I don't care about your conscience, you should feel bad for cheering this ugliness on.