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Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
What are you even saying?

There is nothing in either the Phil Spencer quote nor what Mat is saying there that explains the level of console warring that is going on in this thread. Nothing.

What console warring? We literally are talking about cloud/azure. I'm talking about how they are going all in on this which is a enterprise aligned move. If you think it console warring then hit the ignore.

Chasing that mobile carrot either through the xbox brand of games you can locally or will be able to play locally on mobile devices or streamed via their xcloud service is something I guess that I don't think they should be putting all their eggs into.

It's one thing to offer this as an option as people in area's that this would sell well are Big cities, for mobile huge Asian markets ect. But I honestly need to see more of their strat and their games to see if this all comes together as their move over the next 5-10 years to be platform agnostic.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Are you being intentionally ignorant here?

A bunch of zombie ps3 and ps4 hardware units in a warehouse do not a streaming service make...

You need... cloud infrastructure to stream the processed information to millions of people?

Does Sony have said infrastructure? Can they even afford the investment to build it if not? (I'm presuming no and no, but I dont actually know).

Also your views on competition vs. collaboration are somewhat juvenile.

The more these companies can find ways to scratch each other's backs and piggyback off one another's strengths, the more they can focus on delivering us great games from their respective studios (and deliver those games via a more diverse range of platforms, no less).

Is streaming for me? Not yet, hit me up again in 10-15-20 years when general year-end internet infrastructure is way faster.
Are you being intentionally ignorant? What hardware do you think the PS Now backend operates on? I accurately said it currently is running on PS3 and PS4 derived hardware, which AWS don't have. By all means correct this if you have any evidence to suggest otherwise. I made no comment about the possiblity of Sony using another setup in future, I was just actually describing how it functions currently.

I think it would be great if Microsoft don't see Sony as a competitor and so put their games on PlayStation, but that's demonstrably not the reality.
 

ImaLawy3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
619
Well, Amazon Google or Microsoft which run cloud business have some advantages that would basically mean higher margins as long as they servers/ infrastructure are used wisely.
But nothing prevents Sony or Nintendo to reach very good agreements with any of the current cloud providers, or even build their own infrastructure if needed, or partner with others to low the cost.

I'd love to see the reaction if was someone at Sony saying something like this. Sure arrogant Sony would appear quite often
If the past indicates anything it's the following:
  • MS' achilles has been overtly leaning into technology that the masses deemed premature or unnecessary. The whole Kinect and always on debacle is proof of this even though when we fast forward 7 years, always on is god damn amazing.
  • Sony's achilles has been their ego and arrogance. Fast forward years later...they are sorta right and they are the market leader...lol.
  • Both of them just need to take care of those two issues respectively and they'll be in great shape.
 

LordBlodgett

Member
Jan 10, 2020
806
Last Gen it was mobile eg. Smartphones, this gen it's Cloud.

The thing is, stationary Consoles are a thing since the 70s and i don't see that changing in the next 20 years.
Of course Phil Spencer wants that to change, it'll be the only possible way for Xbox to catch up somewhat.

Will Cloud gaming be an alternative, yeah i think so. But i don't think it will displace traditional home consoles.
I actually think you are correct, but I think the point is that consoles have a limited reach. We are at a little over 200 million consoles sold between the big three (Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft) at the end of a console generation. Last generation was a larger number than this gen mostly because the Wii was a staple in every home, gamer or not (PS3, Xbox 360, Vita, Wii, Wii U). The generation prior to that the number was more consoles than this this generation (PS2 dominating, Xbox Dreamcast). Console gaming has stagnated in the number of homes it reaches globally, even though revenues continue to climb as hardcore gamers spend more than before on services, games, and DLC.

I actually think that Microsoft will continue in consoles. Their gaming revenue right now is actually higher than it was during the Xbox 360 years, and most of that is on console. But I think Microsoft wants that China, Korea, Japan, and India money too.....
 

Deleted member 15395

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,145
He's not wrong, Sony is certainly behind on the cloud business and Nintendo might as well be on the stone age.

Guy's just playing to his company's strengths.
 

MykhellMikado

Alt account
Banned
Jan 13, 2020
823
Nope not wrong. Googles failures are more a result of a boneheaded approach filled with lots of promises and little substance. Google will either lick its wounds and start playing the long game or they will lose interest and let their cloud gaming ambitions die. MS has been far more savvy in how they approach the market with streaming. They will not have a problem on content and they will have the traditional gaming alongside rather than alienate 10 of millions of individuals. Cloud gaming in time will either be successful and make accessibility to loads of awesome games easier for many or it won't. MS is taking that bet and he is rightly saying that Sony and Nintendo aren't positioned to do that on a fundamental level. He isn't wrong on that.

No he's definitely wrong. He's equating not having ONE element of a vast myriad of Components: you need:

Games
Network infrastructure
Hardware infrastructure (Cloud GPUs)

He's trying to argue that they have the network infrastructure so that automatically puts them at an advantage. But your have GeForce Now launching who OWN and CREATE the GPUs the games run on. Microsoft doesn't make their own GPUs and no I'm not saying this puts Nvidia above MS. What I am saying is that the technical components and elements are only part of the story and why they are a
Competitive Strength
The lack of it does not exclude competitors like
Nintendo, Sony, or Nvidia.
As it stands Sony has the single most successfully cloud gaming service even several months after Google's big entry.
Nvidia just make big moves.
If Phil is banking on them not being able to compete just like Google did he's in for a rude awakening.

to further this, Sony even stated in their investors meeting last May, that have over 100 million consoles around the world capable of acting as Cloud game providers.This and the expansion of remote play greatly offsets their need for data center infrastructure.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
They've not even launched X-cloud yet. Whatclowns. PS Now is already out there doing incredibly well. Ignoring what playstation is doing is going to be a mistake for them.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I mean obviously Sony nor Nintendo will invest to create their own azure or AWS. The magic of SaaS is that everyone can use it, and at the volumen Sony and Nintendo require their cost should be very low and all available platforma would love to have them as benchmark for reliability and scalability.
Let's not forget IBM is moving to the cloud, Huawei will probably too, and maybe some other Giants will jump once they see all businesses moving to the cloud.

I disagree. Sony don't have the funds to build out a competitor to Azure, let alone in a fast enough timeframe to fight a hypothetically successful service. That's why they partnered with Azure.

IBM's cloud is a joke that's been failing for half a decade in the face of AWS, Azure, and GCP.


erm....Amazon has their cloud but their Prime Videos are nowhere near the impact of Netflix and HBO and Disney+ (and ironically, while both netflix and prime video are on Amazon EC2, netflix app seems to perform much better than prime video for whatever reason)

don't think the tech (and the size of the company) determines the success of the product or the service. Especially for the media business, it is always about the content and the outreach.

Prime Video has way more subscribers than Disney+ and HBO so I don't know where you got that from.

Plus Amazon is second only to Netflix in terms of funding for their original content. Disney+ and HBO are small potatoes by comparison. The quality of that content is debatable, but if you look at what matters, being subscriptions, Amazon is above all but Netflix.
 

ImaLawy3r

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
619
I disagree. Sony don't have the funds to build out a competitor to Azure, let alone in a fast enough timeframe to fight a hypothetically successful service. That's why they partnered with Azure.

IBM's cloud is a joke that's been failing for half a decade in the face of AWS, Azure, and GCP.




Prime Video has way more subscribers than Disney+ and HBO so I don't know where you got that from.

Plus Amazon is second only to Netflix in terms of funding for their original content. Disney+ and HBO are small potatoes by comparison. The quality of that content is debatable, but if you look at what matters, being subscriptions, Amazon is above all but Netflix.

Prime Video comes with Amazon Prime, so yeah it will have more subscribers. But what's their viewership numbers like? Also, what's your source on Amazon's funding of original content vs Disney+?
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
and why do you keep making it a boogeyman when it can be addressed?

It's a tired line at this point that takes no effort.

Reading over my posts in this thread, this is the first time I mentioned it. I'm all ears (well eyes) on how you can get around speed of light issues here besides the obvious build a data center every twenty feet.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
He is getting way ahead of himself here. I feel like all these cloud computing shit is missing the forest for the trees. People largely game for the games themselves. Everything else is just a way to get said games. But if people don't want your games, then you have nothing.

It's all about the content. How you deliver it is pheriperal to everything else so long as it isn't too overly restrictive.
 

Chris.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,920
You can have the best cloud infrastructure in the world but if you don't have a large catalog of games (doesn't even need to be the best.. Just something, anything.. to play), then you don't stand a chance. Google proved that.
 

Zeta Ori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,102
NY
What console warring? We literally are talking about cloud/azure. I'm talking about how they are going all in on this which is a enterprise aligned move. If you think it console warring then hit the ignore.

Chasing that mobile carrot either through the xbox brand of games you can locally or will be able to play locally on mobile devices or streamed via their xcloud service is something I guess that I don't think they should be putting all their eggs into.

It's one thing to offer this as an option as people in area's that this would sell well are Big cities, for mobile huge Asian markets ect. But I honestly need to see more of their strat and their games to see if this all comes together as their move over the next 5-10 years to be platform agnostic.

What does that have to do with any of the posts finding various ways to interpret this as an attack on Sony or Nintendo?

And if you magically can't see those posts, I'll list some out for you:

seems more like something a greenberg would say weird. did phil not get the memo that sony is partnered for cloud services?
Highly disrespectful but it fits with this marketing narrative pushed through various media publications where they act like PS Now doesn't exist or lacks features it clearly has.


The logical thing is for Sony to go with whoever offers them the best deal.
Only a matter of time till Microsoft taps out of the console market.
This seems like a quote from that "embarrassing gaming CEO Quotes" thread.
"if i don't acknowledge Sony i can't lose the competition"

image-127-cke.jpg
Must be a competion about who is going to abandon gaming bussiness first.

This is the first page alone. So if your not talking about what I'm talking about, why are you responding to me?
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
What console warring? We literally are talking about cloud/azure. I'm talking about how they are going all in on this which is a enterprise aligned move. If you think it console warring then hit the ignore.

Chasing that mobile carrot either through the xbox brand of games you can locally or will be able to play locally on mobile devices or streamed via their xcloud service is something I guess that I don't think they should be putting all their eggs into.

It's one thing to offer this as an option as people in area's that this would sell well are Big cities, for mobile huge Asian markets ect. But I honestly need to see more of their strat and their games to see if this all comes together as their move over the next 5-10 years to be platform agnostic.


They are about launching a next gen console in November that will run for the next 7 years. How in the world could you assume MS is putting all their eggs in the xCloud streaming basket ?
 

Rzarekta

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
1,289
Whatever. Sony and Nintendo dominate them right now. Even if MS, Amazon, and Google are the "future" with streaming services, I will always stick with what Sony and Nintendo are doing, even if it's considered outdated. Why? Because of the GAMES they make. Nintendo is already living in the past, yet their system is crushing Xbox because it has the games people want to play.
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
Whatever. Sony and Nintendo dominate them right now. Even if MS, Amazon, and Google are the "future" with streaming services, I will always stick with what Sony and Nintendo are doing, even if it's considered outdated. Why? Because of the GAMES they make. Nintendo is already living in the past, yet their system is crushing Xbox because it has the games people want to play.
Okay?
What does any of that have to do with his comment.

When it comes to cloud infrastructure Sony and Nintendo are not competition.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,856
Reading over my posts in this thread, this is the first time I mentioned it. I'm all ears (well eyes) on how you can get around speed of light issues here besides the obvious build a data center every twenty feet.

You do know since you're trying pseudo science on me it's 7ms of latency per 1000 miles. You would need 17000 miles before buffering issues at 125MS would ever be an issue. Games aren't made with cloud in mind nor are they adjusted for it. cloud studies, overwatch and rollback fighters prove you can do a lot when you account for latency and build around it.

You don't need zero latency games locally have latency now ranging microseconds to just under 10 MS depending on what you're polling.

As I said in other topics I'd focus on routing than queueing but most aren't. The data center solution is pure hyperbole and not even necessary.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
No he's definitely wrong. He's equating not having ONE element of a vast myriad of Components: you need:

Games
Network infrastructure
Hardware infrastructure (Cloud GPUs)

He's trying to argue that they have the network infrastructure so that automatically puts them at an advantage. But your have GeForce Now launching who OWN and CREATE the GPUs the games run on. Microsoft doesn't make their own GPUs and no I'm not saying this puts Nvidia above MS. What I am saying is that the technical components and elements are only part of the story and why they are a
Competitive Strength
The lack of it does not exclude competitors like
Nintendo, Sony, or Nvidia.
As it stands Sony has the single most successfully cloud gaming service even several months after Google's big entry.
Nvidia just make big moves.
If Phil is banking on them not being able to compete just like Google did he's in for a rude awakening.

to further this, Sony even stated in their investors meeting last May, that have over 100 million consoles around the world capable of acting as Cloud game providers.This and the expansion of remote play greatly offsets their need for data center infrastructure.

Lmao, Why does MS have to make GPUs? xCloud runs on Xbox hardware and that is readily available.
They have the games...a very large game library.
They have the network infrastructure.

I suspect you're the one in for a rude awakening if you truly expect xCloud to go the way of Stadia.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
They are about launching a next gen console in November that will run for the next 7 years. How in the world could you assume MS is putting all their eggs in the xCloud streaming basket ?

Their messaging about series of hardware, their brand in currently PC hardware which will at some point be sporting XBox branding as well. Their whole strat is service/streaming in how you consume your content. They seem keen on making it possible to play your games any way you want.

I give it less than 5 years until we see XBox branded PC/ laptop/surface when they do their summits for Windows. It runs full OS, but built in UI for xbox for Gamepass/xCloud.

That is the direction they are heading in. Anyone can see that. They don't care where you play your games has been their thing for a while.
 

gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,734
let's see this thread again in 6 years when the PS5 reaches another 100mi mark and Xbone fails to reach 60.

MS doesn't care as long as cloud gaming grows and companies, bigger consumer-brands like Playstation, are building their cloud gaming on top of their infrastructure.

What Phil Spencer is signalling is that the consumer business is secondary to the success of the b2b cloud business for MS. That's a more important 'war' for them now than the 'console war'. While they're not abandoning consoles, that business was not a very successful bet for MS in hindsight, and the gaming business need to be re-cast internally for it to remain relevant. It's main purpose now seems to be to encourage the transition that will allow MS tech/infrastructure to underpin an increasing number of game services, whether they are their own, or others (like Playstation). Call it a strategic retreat from where they were before vis-a-vis competition with Sony, if you really wish. It wouldn't be an unfair comment IMO - I think MS knows that bar a f-up on Sony's part, the console market and console market shares have probably more or less stabilised, and MS is unlikely to reach a point of dominance on that model. So they're now looking for alternative ways to make money on the gaming business, that don't necessarily hinge on 'beating' others (like Sony or Nintendo) in the consumer space.
 

LordBlodgett

Member
Jan 10, 2020
806
No he's definitely wrong. He's equating not having ONE element of a vast myriad of Components: you need:

Games
Network infrastructure
Hardware infrastructure (Cloud GPUs)

He's trying to argue that they have the network infrastructure so that automatically puts them at an advantage. But your have GeForce Now launching who OWN and CREATE the GPUs the games run on. Microsoft doesn't make their own GPUs and no I'm not saying this puts Nvidia above MS. What I am saying is that the technical components and elements are only part of the story and why they are a
Competitive Strength
The lack of it does not exclude competitors like
Nintendo, Sony, or Nvidia.
As it stands Sony has the single most successfully cloud gaming service even several months after Google's big entry.
Nvidia just make big moves.
If Phil is banking on them not being able to compete just like Google did he's in for a rude awakening.

to further this, Sony even stated in their investors meeting last May, that have over 100 million consoles around the world capable of acting as Cloud game providers.This and the expansion of remote play greatly offsets their need for data center infrastructure.
There are few companies in the world who have the kind of Server and Network infrastructure that Microsoft does on a global basis. Microsoft, Amazon, and Google are it. Definitely not Nvidia. Now I am not saying that Nvidia can't compete in this market in the long run, but they definitely don't have any built-in advantages other than one single piece of the hardware puzzle (might as well call AMD and Intel competitors). The other competitive advantage you totally ignored is the games. Nvidia relies on you buying the game on another platform (that they don't make money off of) and paying them for a service to stream the game to you. Nvidia is the middleman in one way only (streaming service). Microsoft has exclusive games, their own platform for buying games or DLC (where they get a cut of every sale), a game subscription service, plus the cloud infrastructure to back it all up.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Prime Video comes with Amazon Prime, so yeah it will have more subscribers. But what's their viewership numbers like? Also, what's your source on Amazon's funding of original content vs Disney+?


TL;DR Amazon spent about $6 billion last year and Disney is expected to spend $1 billion this year.




Amazon will spend $5 billion to $6 billion this year on content, according to an estimate from BTIG media analyst Rich Greenfield. That is a decent-sized bet for Hollywood but a tiny fraction of Amazon's operating expenses, which topped $220 billion last year. Netflix will likely spend about $15 billion on content this year, Greenfield estimated.




Disney is sparing no expense on programming, projecting a 2020 original content budget short of $1 billion. The Mandalorian is said to cost $15 million an episode, for instance, and a source pegs Marvel entries The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, WandaVision and Hawkeye at as much as $25 million per episode. Rounding out the high-end projects are unscripted and shortform series like Encore with host Kristen Bell, on which adults will restage their high school musicals, and One Day at Disney, which will follow employees in various divisions at the company.



Amazon is a trillion dollars company with effectively unlimited funds and permission from their shareholders to do whatever they want. They are playing the long game and everyone else will eventually be left in the dust.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
In 2013... MS said unlike their competitor, they have a console to sell 1Billion Xbox One's..
Now... their going all in with every man, woman and child huh? A whole 7billion...
It took years for Digital-Physical divide to close.. it's going to take atleast 10years, maybe more, for cloud to rival traditional consoles, if it ever does.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
if you wanna call me fanboy, call me nintendo fanboy.
anyway, I use gamepass since day 1 in brazil and love the service, but let's not pretend that hardware sales don't matter.

Whether or not you love or use Gamepass is immaterial. The article was about cloud gaming as a means to reach the much wider pool of people who don't own consoles.

Talking about hardware sales makes no sense in that context, and seems warz inspired.
 

Deleted member 8784

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,502
I'm seeing a lot of muppetry from people who I previously thought were quite intelligent in this thread. It makes for grim reading.
 

Rzarekta

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
1,289
Okay?
What does any of that have to do with his comment.

When it comes to cloud infrastructure Sony and Nintendo are not competition.
The article does not make this out to just be infrastructure. And what I said is relevant regardless - I'm a consumer that he's trying to ultimately reach and I'm sticking with the two companies he doesn't see as competetion. So those two companies are preventing me from jumping into the MS infrastructure. That seems like competition to me.

Edit: and if I can't make a comment like that in here, then what is the point of the thread? Yea no shit MS is competing with Amazon and Google over infrastructure. Are we all just supposed to say "yup that's true, good talk"?