Phil Harrison: Stadia starts an "inevitable and one-way shift" away from consoles | gameindustry.biz

[Windu]

I don't think you understand the difference between owning digital game and game from streaming.

Imagine one day publishers delist a game, guess which scenario you can still play your game?

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well if I bought the game on their streaming service then both. if its subscription service, then I never really owned the game.

Streaming does not have to be limited to subscription. Google sales Movies individually that you can stream. Games can work the same way.

 

[GarthLordOfTheSith]

No thanks, Phil. No thanks.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Who knew Phil Harrison was the one who would bring the end of times.

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Phil devised a weapon that will surpass Metal Gear.

 

[Deleted member 135]

What control do you think you have right now with you PS4 that you are magically going to lose with your streaming nemesis?

Can you play any game with your friends on a xbox?
If you are not interested in Ps+ offerings, are you able to play all games online
Can you use your AppleMusic account?
Subscribe to EA Acess
.
.
.

it's almost as if Sony is limiting your options for the sake of profitability, holy shit!

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This is a really dumb argument. I have control over my games, I have control over every single game I have a disc for or have downloaded already. I may lose the ability to redownload a game but as long as it's on my HDD its mine. I have the choice when to play, how to play, if I want to be online at all or not. I can sell my games. I can loan my games. I can choose to buy a single game or choose to subscribe to a service.

I have choice. I have control. Streaming will take control away from you.

Fuck the idea of a streaming-only future. Anyone who wants it doesn't really care about games as an artform. They only care about convenience and sHaKiNg uP tHe iNduStRy.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

There is no world where this is dead on arrival. If I'm Johnny Parent who doesn't know anything about games, but knows my kids want to play that new jam, this is my go to instead of a $400 box that becomes obsolete in a few years.

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This, even more now that consoles have subscriptions to play online.

 

[Turbo Tu-Tone]

LMFAO Inevitable. Unless internet connections/pricing becomes A LOT better and more widespread, Agent Phil is talking out of his ass.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Fuck the idea of a streaming-only future. Anyone who wants it doesn't really care about games as an artform. They only care about convenience and sHaKiNg uP tHe iNduStRy.

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Facts. This shit is completely gross.

I'm fine with options, but a streaming only future? Fuck off.

 

[thediamondage]

As much as I do not look forward to this world of streaming, GAAS, mobile-style games I think he is right. Younger games have no interest in waiting for things to download/install and patch and the idea of not being online 24x7 is weird to most of them. The lure of seeing a game and playing it 15 seconds later on any device around you is simply too huge an advantage over traditional systems.

I think Google will get a lot of things wrong, especially with the kind of games people want (what people "say" vs. what they really want), but I don't think they will give up easily like on other projects. Namely, this fits in perfectly with their business model - nearly frictionless entry, very low barriers to usage, hooks in well with advertising, scales really well based purely on server strength, provides massive amounts of data on consumer habits, and there aren't any strong competitors in the streaming gamespace.

 

[CrazyAndy]

Streaming is nice to have as an option but it's going to co-exist with consoles and not replace them. Maybe in the far, far away future. But consoles are here to stay for at least a while longer.

 

[Aeroucn]

I'm actually excited by the prospect that the technology powering these games won't be limited by whatever box is currently in the market.

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I mean if you are a PC enthusiast games will still be limited by the technology that powers stadia or xcloud

 

[TheZynster]

not as long as comcast exists phil, plus cell towers won't be able to handle all this traffic either.

 

[gozu]

How on earth are you going to manage that?

Getting physical PC games is almost impossible, especially with a decent selection, and tons of PC games nowadays are digital only. Buying on any digital platform makes you not "own your games" as much as Stadia.

Seriously, avid PC gamer only here (I don't own any consoles), and trying to be physical only with PC is pretty much impossible. Most of my most played games do not even have physical options.

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Gog lets me own my games in digital form, no DRM whatsoever. It's great. Right of resale is not infringed upon.

Steam lets me play in offline mode so I still half-own my games but can't resell.

Both are better than streaming video from the cloud, though I am rooting hard for the gog model. It's the only one not to treat customers like they are probably "honorless thieves".

Enthusiasts aren't the target of these models. It's the person who would like to play a game but not going to drop a few hundred on a console or PC. It's increasing the potential of impulse purchases significantly and lowers the financial barrier and makes gaming more accessible than ever before.

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I'm all for that in principle to up those MP userbase counts, but I fear it the network game experience will be "good enough" and it is almost inevitable games will be made exclusive to these services to entice customers.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I think stuff can co-exist.

 

[Inuhanyou]

This, even more now that consoles have subscriptions to play online.

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they dont have subscriptions to play games in general, or own the content that you buy. single player games are still a thing. its patently different

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

I'm skeptical how game streaming makes money.

If there are 7 million concurrent stadia players that's 7 million stadia systems which will cost at least $400 for 1 stadia stack that's $2.8 billion, if 15 million people are spending $10 a month that's only $150 million a month so it will take them years just to break even on hardware.

Im guessing they will also get a cut on each game sold (that's about $10?) so I suppose they will make a profit quite quicky:

40 million games sold through stadia x $10 = $400 million.
So that ads up to $2.2billion, so they will be losing $600million just on hardware costs alone and that does not factor in power, rent and staff costs.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I hear "We want to own you and we want you to own nothing" when I hear shit like this. I will fight this kind of bullshit digital-rentals-only future until there's no one left to stand with me.

 

[Thatguy]

I don't disagree that it signals a shift. But the internet isn't strong everywhere and as long as that is the case there should be some market for consoles. But yeah it will be very interesting to see Stadia and PS5 and Nextbox all sharing the market. I really hope Nintendo partners with Google for this. Switch would possibly be the only console I would need to own as Sony has really abandoned my tastes with their first party (except Dreams).

 

[Deleted member 5593]

Can't comment on whether it will kill consoles or not, but Stadia is managing to make AAA games available to an install base of like a billion people. Nearly 10x more than all 3 of the hardware manufacturers combined. Of coarse it won't look or play as good as a dedicated console machine because of how current internet infrastructure, but as we saw with the adoption of games on Mobile, most people won't care.

With this, I'm beginning to believe Consoles will eventually be a niche.

 

[pikachief]

Is this like when console gaming was phasing out pc gaming? Or when mobile gaming was phasing out traditional gaming? Or when GAAS meant the death of AAA single player titles?

 

[AcademicSaucer]

they dont have subscriptions to play games in general, or own the content that you buy. single player games are still a thing. its patently different

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for a parent making the cost comparison not having to buy the games separately and just paying a subscription for everything could sound better than the alternative.

Remember the video of the kid getting a Nintendo 64 for christmas and going crazy about it? in the future there will be a year long subscription to Stadia under that christmas tree

 

[Betty]

It's the way the industry will go eventually.

 

[ASaiyan]

Streaming boss: "Streaming is the future."

 

[Dunlop]

This is a really dumb argument

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You started a thread talking about the dangers of streaming in relation to shark attacks and solar flares...

Fuck the idea of a streaming-only future. Anyone who wants it doesn't really care about games as an artform. They only care about convenience and sHaKiNg uP tHe iNduStRy.

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Your arguments are about being able to materialistically own your stuff, which is valid but nothing to do with any "artform". If Streaming opens up new audiences and new ways to make games wouldn't this expand the art?

 

[FantaSoda]

Hate to say it but 10 years from now when streaming has taken over we'll be old men yelling at clouds.
The convenience of this system will win over the mainstream. Dedicated hardware will still have its place but it will be smaller.

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It depends on what you mean when you say "take over". For enthusiasts who own consoles today, the library is ultimately the factor that will determine adoption. If consoles still have the games that matter to this market, then the market will co-exist with the streaming market as two separate markets. Third party support is the thing that ultimately is going to determine the support of the enthusiast market, which is why if I was a console maker, I would be shoring up internal development like never before.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Remember the video of the kid getting a Nintendo 64 for christmas and going crazy about it? in the future there will be a year long subscription to Stadia under that christmas tree

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yuck. I am not down for that kind of potential future

 

[radiotoxic]

These kind of services don't mean much to me right now, honestly. BUT... When and if somehow they manage to get completely rid of input lag, boast excellent IQ indistinguishable from actual dedicated hardware, and have an enticing price model -all of this while not requiring the most expensive internet service around- Well, in that case I'm open to change my mind. I'm mostly digital these days, so I already lost real ownership to my library anyway.

Edit: I forgot, also consistent 60fps in all cases where consoles would commonly do it, or aim to.

 

[ShiningBash]

This feels like conservation about headphone jacks, where everyone in the tech industry in media has been convinced about something that consumers are less supportive of.

 

[____]

Dead on arrival, and their intent to move gaming away from consoles makes google a vile company and to me public enemy number 1. Amazing how overnight I lost all respect for google.

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What a childish viewpoint. Why does everyone feel that every product or service has to cater to them specifically? Do you not feel there could be potential value for someone else besides you here?

 

[Wez]

Dead on arrival, and their intent to move gaming away from consoles makes google a vile company and to me public enemy number 1. Amazing how overnight I lost all respect for google.

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Nestle kills babies in Africa but take away our gaming boxes and we will hate you more!

 

[Deleted member 135]

Your arguments are about being able to materialistically own your stuff, which is valid but nothing to do with any "artform". If Streaming opens up new audiences and new ways to make games wouldn't this expand the art?

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Art needs permanence. If games become streaming only they lose all permanence. They become ephemeral and can vanish at any time. They cease to be art. They become a consumable product no different than a fast food burger.

 

[Plasma]

The same Phil Harrison that said the "PS3 is a computer, we don't need the PC."

 

[Bunkles]

Fuck the idea of a streaming-only future. Anyone who wants it doesn't really care about games as an artform. They only care about convenience and sHaKiNg uP tHe iNduStRy.

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A game built on exclusively on something like Stadia has the opportunity to advance the the artform. If you are against advances in tech, then you don't care about gaming as an artform. What you care about is ownership.

 

[BradleyLove]

Except that streaming is the exact opposite of what's needed for eSports and VR.

 

[Agent Unknown]

They obviously took down the corporate motto signs in their offices which said "Don't be evil" a long time ago, huh?

Anyways, Harrison's statements along with his GDC interview with Jason Schreier where he did little but dodge questions and came off as a humorless stuffed shirt have me at a solid "No thanks."

 

[Big One]

As long as Nintendo and Sony exists, the video game market will never fully transition from a hardware model.

Why stream when you could release another generation of Pokemon for 60 dollars and be one of the best selling gaming products of the year?

 

[Hollywood Duo]

Might want to have a convo with those ISP's about data caps breh.

 

[The_R3medy]

I get where Phil is coming from, and eventually he'll be right. Streaming the games will likely be our future.

The next question becomes: How long til we get there? Does it take ten years? Fifteen? Fifty?

Will Google even have the patience to wait it out through all the growing pains? Google's track record says no.

The company who seems best poised for a streaming future, at the moment, is Microsoft given their first party studios, online system, and history in games. Google has..... One studio? Which seems like it's gonna be a support studio not a full blown dev.

 

[Dunlop]

As long as Nintendo and Sony exists, the video game market will never fully transition from a hardware model.

Why stream when you could release another generation of Pokemon for 60 dollars and be one of the best selling gaming products of the year?

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It never needs to fully transition, the audience just needs to stop being so close minded and recognize that not all change is bad

 

[Deleted member 36622]

Phil Harrison? The guy who said controller rumble is last gen tech, then eventually Sony put rumble back in anyways?

surejan.gif

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The guy who also lead Playstation success in the West. Let's remember him only for that quote...

 

[PlanetSmasher]

It never needs to fully transition, the audience just needs to stop being so close minded and recognize that not all change is bad

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Paying subscription fees just to access regular games is change I don't want to be a part of. This industry is becoming a fucking parasite, just like streaming video. Let me choose what content I want to pay for instead of paying a blanket fee for a bunch of shit I don't care about just to access the few things I DO.

 

[Deleted member 135]

It never needs to fully transition, the audience just needs to stop being so close minded and recognize that not all change is bad

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Not all change is bad. This particular change is bad. The want for a streaming-only future (especially with a company like Google) is really fucking bad.

 

[cucholix]

As long as Nintendo and Sony exists, the video game market will never fully transition from a hardware model.

Why stream when you could release another generation of Pokemon for 60 dollars and be one of the best selling gaming products of the year?

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They will become niche and the 3rd party support will eventually disapear. First party titles and co-fundings will be key.

 

[Big One]

It never needs to fully transition, the audience just needs to stop being so close minded and recognize that not all change is bad

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I never said game steaming is bad I just do not think it supplants physical hardware. It's just another feature, another aspect of gaming that is going to become more viable as the years go on and internet speeds become better. Same with VR, mobile games, esport games (or games as a service model), etc. All of which have been predicted to be a sign of the "end of console gaming as we know it."

 

[Ichi]

Streaming is nice to have as an option but it's going to co-exist with consoles and not replace them. Maybe in the far, far away future. But consoles are here to stay for at least a while longer.

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I don't believe it's far, far away.

2008 Blockbuster was king. 2018 there's literally a couple of Blockbusters left open in the whole world.

we will move to streaming inevitably, and within the next decade i.e. the next generation of consoles.

besides, it's naive to think Only Google will have a monopoly. There's Apply, Amazon, Microsoft, Sony, etc. all these companies have their own infrastructures.

If anything, Google is first-to-market in the streaming-only future and so what? it is the future. People keep on whining about evil corporation when they have benefited greatly from Google day-in and day-out for the past 20 years. Hypocrisy at its finest. Google is doing something unprecedented and not like the other companies are going to go under. It just forces the others to re-think their business models and network capabilities.

We are moving away from systems and that is the future.

 

[Deleted member 984]

I'm all for that in principle to up those MP userbase counts, but I fear it the network game experience will be "good enough" and it is almost inevitable games will be made exclusive to these services to entice customers.

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As long as a few variables fall in your favour the good enough is only marginally worse than the current console experience.

We all know that PC on average has the best version of games but people are more than happy to play on consoles, tablets and phones. Current streaming tech is better than what phones and tablets can do natively and in my opinion better than last gen consoles.

I don't really mind about exclusives it means content is getting made that wouldn't normally be produced.

 

[mikehaggar]

I'm actually excited by the prospect that the technology powering these games won't be limited by whatever box is currently in the market.

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Yeah, they need to develop and promote games that leverage the uniqueness of the platform asap. Games that are only possible on something like Stadia because a developer can have multiple units of the "hardware" running a single instance of the game. In my opinion, that's how you get "gamers" on-board and get them to overlook the shortcomings of the platform.

I'm also super curious about pricing... is it a subscription or are you outright buying games the way we do now? Maybe a combination of the two? I'm guessing the latter is most likely.

 

[Tunahead]

"But for the last 40 years of games, the industry has been device-centric. As a developer, I build for a device. It's been package-centric -- I either ship the game on a disc or a cassette tape or a cartridge or increasingly now I download that package. But it's still that mental model of a package for a thing. As of 10am yesterday, we just broke through that glass ceiling and said to developers, 'The internet is your store and the network and the data centre is your platform.'

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How exactly is this different from the current state of affairs? The developers would still be developing for specific hardware, now the hardware is just all in one place. As for distribution, this is basically already the model digital storefronts use. All I'm getting from this ground-breaking new marketing speak is yet another "the Emotion Engine makes games more emotional because it's got emotion in the name".

 

[Izzard]

Problem I have with this is my internet speed not able to handle it, and not just that but if someone in a household is streaming a game and then another two or three start using the internet how will that affect the game stream, because it's bad enough when Prime goes from 720 to 480 when watching. That happening with games would be just awful.

 

[LakeEarth]

I love fighting games, rhythm games and shoot 'em ups. Streaming games is cool, but the internet infrastructure as a whole will have to improve before I'm out of the console market.

 

[The Main Event]

Another thing that just crossed my mind. What's gonna happen to our games during servers maintenance/downtime? We won't have access to them, won't we?

Yeah, I'm out Phil.