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Pete Buttigieg & Queer Erasure
- Thread starter SweetNicole
- Start date
This probably happens generally, but the guy is literally on the cover of time with his husband...
so what you're saying is that we've only got you for $20 for the write-in Peter Thiel to congress campaign then
But yeah, Buttigieg was pulling that whole "im in ur military base, defendin ur freedom of sp33ch" thing and, just, like, no dude that's not how it works
How does he make you feel unsafe? You think he'd truly be detrimental to the plight of LGBT people in the US?
His current lack of substantive LGBT policies is not great, but as you said, none of the current candidates have done much in that regard. What makes you think he won't eventually make his intentions clear in that respect?
If Buttigieg becomes president, I do feel he's going to face the same backlash moment that Obama experienced from centrists the moment that a high profile incident forces him to speak on the behalf of his identity.
I'm gay. And if Pete running for President makes you feel "unsafe", that's a personal problem. He's one of a billion candidates in a massive race.
There is a very real and ugly strain of thought that got expressed in the Slate article that because Pete is a boring, masculine guy (who's also religious and didn't come out till relatively late in life for his generation) that his masculinity is fraudulent, that he's untrustworthy because there's some inner "queerness" he's deliberately not expressing. And well, that argument can go to hell. The idea that there's some universal "Queer" identity is bullshit. Gay guys can be super masc or super fem- we come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, and behavior patterns, and to be angry because someone isn't performatively expresing their sexuality enough for you is again, a personal problem.
Okay, so...not all minorities are the same. Specially if we bring other factors such as class and race into the mix.
It's become a problem when people expect us to toe the line for someone queer, but then they're white and have extremely retrograde views on the poor and PoC.
As a popular example, we have people like James Charles, Shane Dawson and Jeffrey Star. All have done or said extremely racist things.
On the politics side we had Aaron Schock, a Republican congressman that was virulently homophobic, now just merrily making out at Coachella.
We had the 'Gays For Trump' mess.
None of this is criticism on Buttigieg. But the conditions in which people like him thrive at the expense of others in our community.
We have to do away with the white fragility and tackle these issues as they come, even if they're within our own community. When will we lock-step with the part of our communities that don't look "ideal"? The ones that aren't "sanitized" and "digestible" to the general public?
Just because someone is a minority in one aspect doesn't mean they're even close to relating to another type of minority. For example, anti-Blackness is ubiquitous in America and broadcasted from the highest mountain tops. Coincidentally, the most racist White Liberals I've ever met just happen to be gay. They grew up racially sheltered in 95+% White localities and the damage was done by the time I met them. That they are themselves minorities didn't mean much. What's paramount is exposure to other people, so that you can see them, befriend them, and experience them as actual people from an early age and not use whatever shorthand society puts into one's head.
That's why Mayor Pete's wiretapping scandal doesn't surprise me at all and why minorities are desperate for people that look like them to lead. Black politicians do not leave White people in the dust, so they will be taken care of regardless. It's the latter that usually forgets the former once votes are counted.
Except it isn't about performance. It's about the community he ends up being adjacent to thanks to his sexuality and failing to run on any policy whatsoever that feels like it makes people like me be seen. Me feeling safe as a queer person is not a "me problem" and when those who have the chance to change something fail to address it that's what perpetuates anything from being different. Spare me the victim blaming.
I mean, for a guy who claimed "All Lives Matter", thinks the US should have mandatory civil service, and wants to model his campaign after John fucking McCain, it's genuinely baffling he has the support he does in the first place.
Also this article is beyond terrible.
Also this article is beyond terrible.
You are not a "victim" of Pete running for President.
The issue with the wiretapping scandal is that when the police chief came across the accidental recordings, he had the ability to come forward with them. But instead he chose to continue the (now illegal rather than accidental) wiretaps, which is what eventually led to the firing. The original tapes are still wrapped up in litigation to this day.
I guess I'm approaching it from a position that Buttigieg is not a mass-produced politician and more on the fact that I believe queer identity is all-encompassing and yes, that absolutely includes affluent masculine men. So long as Buttigieg is not attempting to claim oppression that isn't his, I don't think it's right to dismiss his identity as "sanitized" and "digestible to the mainstream", because a lot of queer non-politician people carry the same identity. It starts to veer into "you're not gay enough".
That's not to say never question Buttigieg. If you believe his policies for LGBTQ+ protection are lacking that's absolutely fine. But as far as him personally, his queer identity is as valid as any others'. Not equivalent, but valid.
You're not really giving him a chance to make his case in regards for what he plans to do for the LGBT community if he's elected.
We are still very early in the race. No one has laid out all their policies yet.
It sure sounded like that but I think that's more present in these very forums.
This was always what I thought. He doesn't and shouldn't hide him being gay but it shouldn't be smack dab in the middle of his persona. He's just another candidate that happens to be gay and that's how he should handle it. If he's to be President he'll win because of his policies and ideas. Fact of the matter is the vast majority won't vote for him because he's gay just as the majority didn't vote for Obama because he was black.
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If you believe I'm dismissing him or his identity, then that's the first problem we have and I'll ask you to not do that. Don't misinterpret me and maybe we can have a decent conversation.
Me saying that his identity is accepted more than others isn't some sort of dismissal of his identity. It's the reality for tons of PoC and queer people that don't fit the mold.
So let's start from there, don't mischaracterize my words to run with the "he's not gay enough" narrative.
Yeah I remember when Bush was making the case for war and was all like "We need to liberate the queer people of Kabul, and we need to do it yesterday"
wait you mean that nonwhite queer folks might not actually find comfort in his 'all lives matter' messaging
shock
Imagine being so daft that you believe not wanting to vote Republican-lite is what gave us Trump, or will continue to give us Trump, despite 40% of voters not even showing up in 2016. Surely it has nothing to do with candidates appealing to the party of literal, actual Nazis as opposed to actually attempting to reach their own base.
One of the first things I heard about him was that was was gay, and he's now on the cover of Time magazine with his husband. I don't think his sexual identity has been downplayed at all from what i've seen. I'd be more concerned with his centrist talk and his hesitance to announce any policies.
I like that I live in a country (Ireland) with a gay, half Indian prime minister and his race and sexual orientation are rarely if ever a talking point. People instead focus on all the ways he's a thoroughly mediocre politician!
I like that I live in a country (Ireland) with a gay, half Indian prime minister and his race and sexual orientation are rarely if ever a talking point. People instead focus on all the ways he's a thoroughly mediocre politician!
If you don't vote democrat in November of 2020 you helped re-electing Trump. It's that simple. You don't have to support Pete in the primaries but if he wins the candidacy, or whomever else does, and if you don't vote democrat you're part of the problem as far as I'm concerned. Removing Trump is the #1 priority by any means necessary.
Enjoy the nuanced criticisms and whatnot right now but one in the general election it's a binary choice.
it's not erasing Buttigieg's sexuality to point out that there is a vast range of life experiences across the LGBTQIA+ spectrum, and that he's literally the least marginalized sort of LGBT person it's possible to be in America. He has far more in common with a cishet white man with a similar background than he does with the sorts of LGBT people who actually live on the margins of society.
I think you might have misinterpreted my post, tbh. I was mocking Buttigieg for saying that his service in Afghanistan had something to do with protecting the rights of homophobes to engage in hate speech. (granted, if he said he served in Afghanistan to protect gay rights in the US, that would have been only slightly less ridiculous)
Ah, the "minority identity isn't as important if you have money" POV comes out to play again.
I voted for Hillary, despite her being a terrible candidate, so I do understand the "pick your battles" mentality. But we have plenty of time until we have to decide on a candidate, and with such a large pool to choose from, it remains important to hold every single one accountable.
So basically he's not queer enough for you, got it. Someone tell Pete he's been doing the gay thing wrong.
I can agree with that as long as we can stop eating our own once the general rolls around.
And yes Hillary was a fucking terrible candidate and I laugh at anyone here who insists she was "the best presidential candidate of our lifetimes" (yes I've been told this here) but she was still better than Trump and couldn't even beat him.
Yeah, like, putting away the sarcasm for a moment, there should be some sort of specific identification for white LGBT movements the way there is for white feminism, especially if it's supposed to include groups like, say, Log Cabin Republicans, because whatever work they might even put in to ease the social burden of people who share their vulnerabilities is couched under imperialistic motivations (and usually thinly-guised or latent racism, a la "all lives matter" as mentioned above) that would make true liberation impossible.
It's not just that.
It's the imperialist/military angle (mandatory service and continued praise of military).
It's the religious angle (at a time when Christian religion continues to trample all others in America).
It's the use of "social justice warriors" as a perjorative (when we're out here busting our butts to feel human).
It's a lot...but I digress. This thread is about his queerness. And the long and short is, there's no ONE particular way to be gay. But the LGBT community is lopsided, and you can't avoid that conversation if you're addressing the whole LGBT community.
Fair enough, I wasn't accusing you of doing it, I apologize if it came off that way. Some people make that argument of representation but not fully understand its implications and it's hard to see who is actively making that implication and who isn't.
I absolutely understand if you or anyone else does not believe Buttigieg represents them. I've seen some pieces elsewhere and posts here that go beyond that
speaking of which, it is extremely weird for someone to join the military at the age and level of education/career/income attainment that Buttigieg did, and it's really hard to shake the impression that he did so primarily as a cynical act of resume-building, which is pretty gross IMO
This is how the mindset of conspiracy theories works. Speculate about something being possibly true about someone or something you don't like, validate it as true using your "feelings", then declare it horrible in order to double down your dislike of someone while attempting to spread your self-created narrative.
The article is basically saying that this pretty much just amounts to "don't ask, don't tell," and a don't ask, don't tell policy operates on the basis of "I'm still uncomfortable with gayness so please don't tell me about it, it's easier for me to work with you if I don't know about your gayness." It's still homophobic, even if it's not as extreme as wishing violence on LGBTQ or anything.
I can't BELIEVE queer members of this very forum would have the audacity to think Pete just might not be the Gay White Jesus that my fellow liberals at MSNBC and on the DC beltway have declared him to be.
Next you're gonna tell me there's left-wing black people here that think Obama didn't do enough for racial justice in America.
Next you're gonna tell me there's left-wing black people here that think Obama didn't do enough for racial justice in America.
Weird post.
Here's what Buttigieg says about it.
Yes, I know what it is saying and I think it is idiotic. Like imagine being upset that people care more about a candidates ideas and policies than they do about their sexual orientation. It is not homophobic to not care that a person is gay.
Of course, of course. I believe I worded myself very poorly, but regardless apologize. You're both right, the experience of one minority or member of a marginalized group is not equivalent to one in another. Apologies.
Obviously if someone who is gay and white, and says or advocates for something racist, they should be called out for it. I do not mean to imply otherwise. And yeah, PoC are treated very poorly by the white gay community, that is very true.
All I know is, I didn't even know Buttgieg was gay until a few days ago in spite of hearing about him for months now. That doesn't seem right to me, which is the point I was trying to communicate. It's something that's valuable to know that so many people leave out in conversations about him. Of course, it may be that I'm partially at fault here for not doing more reading myself.
Race and ethnicity, sexual orientation and gender identity, and yes, class, these things are intersectional. Are you disputing this? Your post comes off like that's the case.
Did you only hear about him in writing? Even then, I got a news notification the other day for an article about his husband. Pretty much every interview I've seen has the host bring up his sexuality.
I am not. This is specific to a pattern of MO using class to handwave those other aspects. Its come up previously w antisemitism. Bullets dont bounce off with a high enough bank account number.
The thing is, this doesn't read like solidarity to me:
I'd be more convinced that Buttigieg actually cares about The Troops if he supported things like expanding benefits (esp. healthcare), guaranteed housing, mental health services, etc. Maybe he is, but if so I don't see anyone reporting on it. It also doesn't match what I've seen of his legacy as mayor of South Bend.
I live in a country with a gay Prime Minister. Nobody* gives one single fuck that he's gay. That's exactly how it should be. I find the premise of this article to be fucking bullshit to be honest.
*Obviously some bigots do but they're irrelevant.
affluent cis white gay men are just about the least marginalized people in 2019 who can lay claim to any sort of marginalized identity. I get that saying that offends some people - in my experience, mostly other affluent cis white gay men who don't like acknowledging their own privilege over other minority groups - but it's the truth
We could.
If people would stop coming into threads with the "THIS is what's gonna get Trump elected!" boogeyman 👀
I can 100% assure you, if Trump wins it's not gonna be the fault of LGBT people. But that's another story 😊