Performance expectations of the XSX compared to the PS5

[IronicSonic]

Considering One X vs PS4pro...
4K60 with minor dips and high settings for Series X
4K reconstructed at solid 60fps with high to mid setting for PS5

 

[RayTracing]

I guess Assassin's Creed will be the first game where DF will talk about differences (if there is any in this particular case).

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Ubisoft is not the best benchmark for this, I expect parity mostly. I think a game like Cyberpunk 2077 to be a much better benchmark of what to expect. Then we have a score to settle re Resident Evil Village, I'm curious to see if the rumor holds.

 

[aevanhoe]

Digital Foundry just struggled to pixel count Demons Souls and it turns out it's running at 1440p in 60fps mode, a fact that nobody seems to have discerned or mentioned based solely on the trailer. So let's say PS5 games routinely come in at 18-20% below 4K resolution. Will people outside of the forum obsessives and warriors be able to tell the difference?

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Hey, even people ON the forum won't be able to tell the difference. DF will count pixels and then obsessives will proclaim the version with lower pixels is unplayable and/or gives them headaches.

This will be the case for both systems. PS5 will load something 1.5s faster and people will say Xbox loads it "forever". Xbox will drop resolution a few times less, and people will say the game looks "blurry" on PS5.

Silly, but it's almost entertaining to me, at this point :) Or annoying, depending on the severity :)

I am excited what 1st party developers can squeeze out of these systems, though. Like, I'm sure 3rd party games will feel similar, but maybe Sony 1st party titles use that SSD advantage in interesting ways (like they already are with Ratchet & Clank) or maybe Xbox 1st party games squeeze every bit of power to bring some extra raytracing or advanced rendering on the X (like turning on some extra graphical setting absent from S or mid-range PC versions of the game).

Suffice to say.... and it really is the truth - both consoles seem to be great, and we're probably in for one of the best gaming generations yet.

 

[VanWinkle]

It'll fill up the RAM quicker than the PS5.

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Are you sure about that? 10GB total RAM with 2.4GB/s SSD vs 16GB total RAM with 5.5GB/s SSD.

 

[Kuro]

The expectations are Native 4K 60 with ray tracing VS PS5 1440p 30 with no ray tracing
The reality is both will target 4K, this will be a hit and miss on both, but xbox should have an advantage here. Frame rate should be the same on both from 30 to 60 to 120. Ray tracing will sparsely be used, but again xbox should have an advantage since the GPU has more CU's.

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Ray Tracing scales with shader performance, not CU. Otherwise, PS5's high clock wouldn't boost RT performance (which it will).

 

[dlauv]

Are you sure about that? 10GB total RAM with 2.4GB/s SSD vs 16GB total RAM with 5.5GB/s SSD.

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8gb.

 

[padlock]

I've been thinking about this more, and I think I agree that the differences will be minor.

One way to think about it is that according to Microsoft's own marketing, The only difference between the Series X and S should be resolution even though the Series X has dramatically better GPU specs (TFlops, Memory bandwidth). Given that the differences between The XSX and PS5 is miniscule in comparison, I find it hard to imagine there will be a big visual gap between the two.

 

[Gamer17]

7gb.

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U r making alot of wrong assumtpion and even then that doesn't mean xss io is faster. Io is a hardware which is more than double faster on ps5 compared to xsx and xss. And xss and xsx have same io .

 

[dlauv]

U r making alot of wrong assumtpion and even then that doesn't mean xss io is faster. Io is a hardware which is more than double faster on ps5 compared to xsx and xss. And xss and xsx have same io .

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Yeah I meant in practical terms because i/o generally matters as much as your ram pool. But I was wrong anyway. It's 8gb which gives the PS5 a slight edge.

 

[Gamer17]

Yeah I meant in practical terms. But I was wrong anyway. It's 8gb which gives the PS5 a slight edge.

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U r referring to ram management as io . That's where the issue comes from. Xss has better ram management than xsx but they both have same io .

 

[DrDeckard]

The only part that interests me is the CU count difference. I'm really keen to see how a narrow fast direction compares to a slower and wider approach.

I think that is the only point where higher resolutions could benefit on series x vs 1080p vs 1440p.

 

[arsene_P5]

I don't know if the XSX can do instantaneous loading as seen in Ratchet and Demon's.

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Ratchet wasn't instantaneous. Just to correct what you said. But obviously PS5 has a advantage on I/O, which will have a impact. Although I do think a visual rather than a gameplay one.

 

[dep9000]

Can't wait for the digital foundry videos!

 

[bi0g3n3sis]

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I'm wondering what the expectation are of the performance differences between the PS5 and XSX.

Looking at the specs, I see that the XSX has a slightly higher clocked cpu (3.8 Ghz vs 3.5 Ghz), higher memory bandwidth for 10 GB of it's memory (and lower for the remaining 6), and 52 CUs as opposed 36 for the PS5. The PS5 clocks the CUs higher (2.23 GHz vs 1.825 Ghz), but my understanding is that the PS5 will make use of variable frequencies and won't be able to sustain the 2.23 GHz full time.

My question is, how do people expect the differences to manifest in game? Would the real world differences be marginal, or will the XSX have a noticeable advantage in 3rd party software? If so, what kind of advantage? More consistent framerates, higher resolution, increased effects?

I realize this is all speculation right now, but is there a consensus on what to expect?

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No idea on what mode will these run, but it's actually 3.6 VS 3.5 when in multithreaded mode. Without multithreading, it's only then when XSX runs at 3.8 GHz. In any case, expect negligible differences in terms of raw CPU performance. It will be down to the software and optimization if there's any significant gap.

As for GPU power, I expect XSX to hit 4K native more often than PS5. However, reconstructed 4K from 1440p and through whatever techniques we know nothing of yet, native resolution might be a lot less important than in the previous generation. That Unreal Engine 5 demo was 1440p on PS5 and it looked incredible. Demon's Souls is seemingly running at 1440p60 and it looks really sharp on my 4K TV, even on a Youtube feed.

Then again, you can't forget PS5's SSD. It might make everything snappier and feel more usable, even if that doesn't mean higher framerates.

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Actually, yes. PS5 has only SMT mode, which is 3.5, XSXs CPU is 3.6. It's basically meaningless difference.

Anyway, pretty much same difference in games regarding fps, but i'm expecting at least higher res on XSX, something like 2000p vs 2160p

 

[Andvari]

30% better??? 😂

Think some people are getting a little carried away, In some multiplatform games I expect native 4k on XSX and checkerboard on PS5. Or checkerboarded vs 1440p

I still think Sony 1st party games will look better than anything Microsofts 1st party will ever offer.

MS 1st party have a lot to prove this gen as the Xbox one era was near non existent.

Yeah cool 12tf vs 10tf but it also comes down to the talent of studios and what they're capable of.

 

[CloudsFromSpace]

We probably won't know the answer to this until 2022 or 2023, when there are enough multiplats that were developed from the ground up targeting next gen.

 

[bi0g3n3sis]

"Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core."

"Inside the processor is a power control unit, constantly measuring the activity of the CPU, the GPU and the memory interface, assessing the nature of the tasks they are undertaking. Rather than judging power draw based on the nature of your specific PS5 processor, a more general 'model SoC' is used instead."

"Rather than look at the actual temperature of the silicon die, we look at the activities that the GPU and CPU are performing and set the frequencies on that basis - which makes everything deterministic and repeatable," Cerny explains in his presentation. "While we're at it, we also use AMD's SmartShift technology and send any unused power from the CPU to the GPU so it can squeeze out a few more pixels."

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All what you've quoted from Eurogamer article is regarding Jaguar.

 

[Alucardx23]

All what you've quoted from Eurogamer article is regarding Jaguar.

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I recommend you to read the articles in that case.

 

[TripleBee]

I expect the performance to be clear cut. A bunch of PS5 games with unstable 50-60 fps - that are locked on Series X, for example. Sure it's only 20%, but 20% this gen often meant the difference between stable 60 or not. So I expect the same next gen.

 

[Landy828]

The only part that interests me is the CU count difference. I'm really keen to see how a narrow fast direction compares to a slower and wider approach.

I think that is the only point where higher resolutions could benefit on series x vs 1080p vs 1440p.

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Does over-clocking a RX 5600 make it meet or outperform a 5700 XT?

 

[bi0g3n3sis]

I recommend you to read the articles in that case.

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Yeah :

" Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core. It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores. However, this doesn't sound like a boost solution, but rather performance profiles similar to what we've seen on Nintendo Switch"

I think you took first sentence out of context

 

[Deleted member 51539]

1800p (ps5) vs 4K (XSX)

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4K has 44% more pixels than 1800p, that's more than twice the expected difference.

 

[VG Aficionado]

I expect the performance to be clear cut. A bunch of PS5 games with unstable 50-60 fps - that are locked on Series X, for example. Sure it's only 20%, but 20% this gen often meant the difference between stable 60 or not. So I expect the same next gen.

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I wouldn't expect that. More like minor adjustments for PS5 so that both systems have a consistent framerate and look pretty much the same.

 

[TripleBee]

I wouldn't expect that. More like minor adjustments for PS5 so that both systems have a consistent framerate and look pretty much the same.

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But Avengers or a ton of other 3rd party games were unstable 60 on PS4 pro, and stable 60 on Xbox One X. Why didn't they make those minor adjustments for PS4 pro?

 

[Alucardx23]

Yeah :

" Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core. It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores. However, this doesn't sound like a boost solution, but rather performance profiles similar to what we've seen on Nintendo Switch"

I think you took first sentence out of context

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Don't know if you are trolling, but here we go. "Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core." Here it can't be more obvious that they are talking about the PS5. Most game engines are architected with the Jaguar CPU in mind, this means that developers have a lot of performance room with the Zen 2 cores on the next gen consoles. They can lower the clocks and the Zen 2 cores will still vastly surpass the Jaguar cores on the current gen consoles. This is why you see this "It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind"

 

[jroc74]

On paper, every game should and will perform better on XSX. How can this be disputed?

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Just based on what you posted, because we haven't seen any comparisons, yet?

Anything can be disputed. Whether it needs to be is another question.

But from what I've seen of PS5 games, it doesn't really matter at this point.

Any questions I had about how PS5 games look and perform has been answered, more than answered, for me.

 

[Deleted member 25042]

"20% faster GPU" (well it's not not even that in fact)
People really need to understand the difference between perf gap on paper vs real world

 

[Nostradamus]

I expect the performance to be clear cut. A bunch of PS5 games with unstable 50-60 fps - that are locked on Series X, for example. Sure it's only 20%, but 20% this gen often meant the difference between stable 60 or not. So I expect the same next gen.

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But there were no consoles this gen with 20% raw gpu power difference, unless we are talking PC graphics cards. I also don't expect developers to opt for unstable frame rates if they can go close to 60fps. They are probably going to opt for variable resolution where the PS5 dips more frequently or to slightly lower resolutions.

 

[Lirion]

But Avengers or a ton of other 3rd party games were unstable 60 on PS4 pro, and stable 60 on Xbox One X. Why didn't they make those minor adjustments for PS4 pro?

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There's a bigger difference between Pro and X compared to XSX and PS5.

 

[BubblegumNemesis]

I still think Sony 1st party games will look better than anything Microsofts 1st party will ever offer.

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Come on dude... be serious.

 

[Dizastah]

lol at the "identical" posts.

Once ray tracing is a part of the equation, you'll see.

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Enlighten us....

Come on dude... be serious.

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While he could be wrong, it's not that unbelievable of a statement. Besides, its an opinion.

 

[jroc74]

I expect the performance to be clear cut. A bunch of PS5 games with unstable 50-60 fps - that are locked on Series X, for example. Sure it's only 20%, but 20% this gen often meant the difference between stable 60 or not. So I expect the same next gen.

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Based on the DF analysis of Demons Souls that was posted today, if that's gonna be considered unstable....lol.

 

[bi0g3n3sis]

Don't know if you are trolling, but here we go. "Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core." Here it can't be more obvious that they are talking about the PS5. Most game engines are architected with the Jaguar CPU in mind, this means that developers have a lot of performance room with the Zen 2 cores on the next gen consoles. They can lower the clocks and the Zen 2 cores will still vastly surpass the Jaguar cores on the current gen consoles. This is why you see this "current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core."

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I'm not trolling. I'm just saying this is regarding Jaguar. To me, it can't be more obvious that Cerny is talking about games with Jaguar in mind developing also for PS5. But whatever. Also, PS5 devkit has locked profiles

 

[TheZynster]

this is going to be the first generation where framerates will become more noticeable than the actual resolution on a console.

Having 720p games when the xbox one launched was not a good start when the PS4 was going 1080p on almost everything. The Xbox One games were very blurry compared to PS4. It's not like that now due to clever implementations and dynamic resolutions. But I remember CoD ghosts at launch and jesus christ it was insanely bad in difference.

 

[Fdkn]

Come on dude... be serious.

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That ststement is true for ps4 pro vs xbx and the difference is bigger so... maybe?

 

[Creation_Scapes]

I keep hearing different things about PS5 having serious problems with holding stable Frames Per Second compared to XSX. Can someone without a dog in the race and an (expertise in this subject) please help explain why PS5 is/ or isn't going to have trouble holding steady Frames Per Second.

Because it really doesn't seem that way to me but I'm no expert.

 

[Malcolm9]

I keep hearing different things about PS5 having serious problems with stable Frames Per Second compared to XSX. Can someone without a dog in the race and an (expertise in this subject) please help explain why PS5 is going to have so much trouble holding steady Frames Per Second.

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It's pure FUD, nothing more.

 

[tris20]

Doesn't matter I think.
Mainly because there close and it's about the games.
Only thing I'm worried about is ps5 showed games on real hardware. Xbox not so much

 

[0ean]

Expectation on XSX is 4k/60fps, 1440p/120fps or 8k/30fps as minimum.

 

[Landy828]

That ststement is true for ps4 pro vs xbx and the difference is bigger so... maybe?

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Maybe if you've not played both on the same setup.

One X games that take advantage of the system look better across the board at 4k on my 65" 4k HDR TV.

You could have an art style argument I suppose on exclusives, but visuals include draw distance, AA, framerate, resolution, etc. 🤷🏼‍♂️ There's an absolute advantage.

 

[NoWayOut]

The difference will be there, but I don't expect it to be significant. At least not to the point where most console players would notice.

 

[get2sammyb]

A simple rule: if Digital Foundry has to pull out its magnifier to illustrate a difference, then it doesn't matter.

 

[jelly]

Can't wait for the digital foundry videos!

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Have no idea but basically this.

If both consoles mitigate draw in shadows, better LOD, higher framerates at 1440p or higher and some new experiences, I'm happy.

 

[Brohan]

Expectation on XSX is 4k/60fps, 1440p/120fps or 8k/30fps as minimum.

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Expect to be disappointed more often than not.

 

[Alucardx23]

I'm not trolling. I'm just saying this is regarding Jaguar. To me, it can't be more obvious that Cerny is talking about games with Jaguar in mind developing also for PS5. But whatever. Also, PS5 devkit has locked profiles

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No, let's take this step by step.

1- This is what several developers are saying to Digital Foundry "Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core."

We already know that the PS5 can't sustain the CPU and GPU at max clock all the time. This comes directly from Cerny himself, "Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively."

2- Developers have the option to lock down the PS5 CPU at a lower clock speed and this way they can guarantee that the GPU will stay at the max 2.23GHz clock speed.

3- The starting point for developers to start working on the PS5, is with engines that were developed for the current gen consoles, this means engines designed to work with the really underpowered jaguar cores in mind. This is why you see this "It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores." This is part of the reason why we are seeing 120fps games on next gen consoles, the Zen 2 cores are running circles around what the jaguar cores can do, on the engines that were designed to work on the jaguar cores.

 

[Doc Cottle]

Resolution is pretty irrelevant at this stage for me. There are few, if any, games that I play regularly where you would notice res differences at runtime. It's effects such as particles, transparencies, shadows and reflections which are more obvious to my eye and it'll be interesting to see if the SeriesX's extra horsepower is noticeable with these.
IF (and lets be honest it's still a big IF) Xbox has a fuller RDNA2 feature set I'd want to see more benefit than resolution.

 

[jroc74]

Expect to be disappointed more often than not.

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Basically.

Any thread that has what do you anticipate or expect? Well, I anticipate and expect alot of things.

Will they happen? Well...that's the 12tf question.

 

[Logan Hardy]

No, let's take this step by step.

1- This is what several developers are saying to Digital Foundry "Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core."

We already know that the PS5 can't sustain the CPU and GPU at max clock all the time. This comes directly from Cerny himself, "Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively."

2- Developers have the option to lock down the PS5 CPU at a lower clock speed and this way they can guarantee that the GPU will stay at the max 2.23GHz clock speed.

3- The starting point for developers to start working on the PS5, is with engines that were developed for the current gen consoles, this means engines designed to work with the really underpowered jaguar cores in mind. This is why you see this "It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores." This is part of the reason why we are seeing 120fps games on next gen consoles, the Zen 2 cores are running circles around what the jaguar cores can do, on the engines that were designed to work on the jaguar cores.

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Same article said "There is enough power that both GPU and cpu are potentially gonna work at their max clock most of the time and it isn't the case that they have to run one of them slower" but you didn't include that part??

 

[Necron]

I guess it'll depend on the game.
I expect the differences to be negligible overall.

It's way too soon to tell...

 

[Alucardx23]

Same article said "There is enough power that both GPU and cpu are potentially gonna work at their max clock most of the time and it isn't the case that they have to run one of them slower" but you didn't include that part??

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Yes and I clearly said "We already know that the PS5 can't sustain the CPU and GPU at max clock all the time." both are clearly compatible. I included word by word the quotes from Cerny and the developers that spoke with digital foundry. With what you don't agree exactly?

"Mark Cerny freely admits that CPU and GPU won't always be running at 3.5GHz and 2.23GHz respectively."

"Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core."