It's unfortunate. The same thing happens with every company though, like Nintendo with some of their backwards stuff. I don't understand the drive for people to advocate against their own best interests.
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People understand the FFVII Remake doesn’t say Part 1 for Square’s benefit, not the consumer’s benefit, right?
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About six times now in this thread I've posed the question, both directly and generally, to folks, asking a simple "what would be the harm in simply adding an "Act 1" subtitle to the game's name?" Most recently I asked it of Jobbs after his comments about it not being a big deal and people finding no joy in life or whatever else.
Weirdly enough despite the question being pretty simple, I have yet to receive an actual answer. Huh, weird. I'm not ranting, not calling for people to lose jobs over this or burning with outrage. Just...asking a question, which never seems to get answered. The closest I've seen is "it wouldn't look as clean and wasn't on the original box," which...the word "Remake" already wasn't printed on the original box either, so...
I do think there's been some overly-accusatory language used at points during the course of this discussion, and it is ultimately not a huge deal. But it was a point worth having a discussion about and I don't think it's asking much for people to admit "yeah that is kind of misleading and there's been a lot of examples shown of people who didn't realize this isn't remaking the entire game" and then...continue on with life. The fervor to downplay an already not-that-big issue and the rush to try and find similar situations (which...I really don't think there's ever been something quite like this case before, certainly not in gaming) has just been both confusing and intriguing, which is why the topic's gone on for so long. I think if there was more of a consensus of just "yeah that's kind of weird and it would've been better for them to have a clearer title," this wouldn't still be going on.
It's fanboyism. They see it as some weird attack on the game itself, despite the fact that the majority of people are very calm and simply saying that the title of the game is misleading so they should add "Part 1" to it.
The fact that there is even anyone trying to argue against it is so crazy.
Again if they do put a subtitle great but it's not a big deal like some are making it out to be. They have been clear about what the game is. They have the information on the box as well. I Stand by what i keep saying anyone that says its anti consumer for them not having a subtitle is overreacting.
it would still be because the ones yelling how anti consumer it is can't get past it not actually being a big deal especially since they have been communicative with what the game is.
I only read up until maybe page 5 of this circus before jumping to the end, but there seemed to mostly be people saying that, or that they don't think it really matters either way. I must have missed some real craziness in the middle of the thread. Having terms like anti-consumer thrown around doesn't make the discussion any clearer either. It seems to be a classic case of everyone getting more upset at how much more right they are than the other side than giving the issue it's proper gravity. It's probably best for me to not add any more to this and hopefully let the thread die.
Again, your point has been countered appropriately multiple times with basic logic and proof that there are people -- even VII fans who were looking forward to this and post on Era -- that didn't know it wasn't the full game.
So saying "again" and then repeating yourself doesn't really matter at this point.
So I am very much against how they've chosen to label and advertise this product. That said ... looking at it from the other side, this is how I see it.
It's a Remake of many peoples' favorite games of all time. It's an iconic classic. It went through development Hell and many people (both fans and disinterested people) are genuinely surprised that we're this close to the finish line. A demo exists for crying out loud. This game is going to hit the streets and people will finally play it. It's a project that people have been craving for an extremely long time, so seeing the trailers is a spiritual experience. Jumping off the train with Cloud is tapping into the roots of many peoples' childhoods. Going from menu presses to actual sword swings means that players are actually "being" Cloud. Anyways, extrapolate where I'm going with that and apply it to every single piece of content we've seen for this game.
These same folks have likely done every bit of research from trailers to developer interviews to rumors to data mining to fan theories.
WITH THAT SAID
I can see it being frustrating for these folks to come to a gaming enthusiast forum and see something that they are extremely excited about to be the subject of a 1,600 reply thread where the majority of people are (correctly) saying that the company that made this game is intentionally misleading consumers with the way it is selling and advertising that same product. There should be nothing but fever-pitch excitement, and yet other gaming enthusiasts are trashing Square's decisions here. Rather that unmitigated hype, it's people shaking their heads at how Square is handling this situation while still opening their wallets. While these folks are showing empathy towards the uninformed consumers of the world, it's viewed as negative bashing and a desire to always look for the pessimistic angle.
I get the frustration from these fans, but I do also wish that they would take a step back and view it through a neutral lens. To pretend as if it's a remake an EA game. Or a remake of a Ubisoft game. Or whatever other studio they dislike. View this game as something you don't care about, and ask yourself if the average, uninformed consumer is being mislead or not.
small ass text, in back cover.
next you would tell me there is nothing wrong with "fine print" and it's totally consumer fault.
It does and the overreacting is embarrassing.
its not the consumers fault but its far from fine print
The vast majority of people are not overreacting.
What's embarrassing is defending the giant corporation because reasons instead of simply saying, "Yeah. That's not clear to general consumers. They should make the title more clear."
Why are you so amped up. Its not a "defense" i really don't care what they do to the title. I just think the people complaining about it are a very small sample size given how iconic Midgar is to the game.
Does speculation need evidence? Huh. I'm just thinking out loud. I've talked to a few bit of people about it, and I'm also just thinking back to my experience with the game's news cycle when it released.
Do you think casual gamers deserve the cover to say what it is?
Or are they suckers for not doing their research in your opinion?
I'm just curious because people keep on trying to make Square Enix look innocent in this and I don't see it that way.
Yes, Midgar is iconic, but what about the following three things that are exponentially more iconic:
Sephiroth
Meteor
Aeris dying
casual gamers will read the back , I just pulled it up and it's not hidden in anyway on the back of the box. a subtitle is fine but it's not needed and not a big deal either way if they have one or not.
The title is fine, the information is presented on the box and that's good enough. Anyone saying this is anti consumer and looking to screw the customer is overreacting
Did I really just read people comparing a remake being released in multiple parts without announcing it on a cover with The Last of Us getting a sequel? Wow... that's... something. Specially because even that one, ironically has a "part 2" written on it's title lol.
I didn't get far enough on my first playthrough to get to that last spoiler. But no doubt its an iconic part of the game. But what if this is their opportunity to flesh that character out. I KNOW there are alot of fans who felt that character was underutilized.
I think the back and forth between Cloud and Sephiroth, taking down Shinra, and exploring and finally sitting at the edge of Midgar are equally as memorable.
According to some people in this thread you either don't exist or are in the fault for not following every single detail about this game.
But in all honesty, this game covers up to
leaving Midgar for the first time.
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I don't think it's overreacting. Asking for a subtitle is not harmful to the customer. Anticonsumer laws exist for the lowest common denominator. When you have people on a game enthusiast forum not know this is only the first part then the onus is on the seller to note so. Especially when there is precedent in other mediums.
Yeah, I keep coming back to this thread to see what's going on and it's just a lot of yelling and arguing in circles.
I find the lack of empathy in this thread to be really concerning for certain users. While I would love to live in an ideal world where every consumer knew about the products they buy, this isn't reality. Having this expectation knowing full well of how people are shows that people have the "well that's your fault" attitude instead of trying to understand that people are fallible. I'm sure everyone can look in the mirror and accept that we don't follow logic all the time. You would think people would research something that they buy and put their time in especially if it's a sizeable purchase. This just doesn't happen all the time. Otherwise we wouldn't have anti consumer laws in place. Marketing and advertising works because of the lowest common denominator. Acknowledging that you know what square is doing but doubling down saying people should've known is an extremely bad attitude to have.
Overall your post seem to be disputing what I was writing, which you're entitled to but it would have been convenient to have some evidence when you say you think SE did the survey that told them it was ok to have the front cover infer a more straight forward remake.
Alright, I'll try posing the question again:
What harm is done to the product if it were to be titled "Final Fantasy VII Remake: Act 1"?
If a subtitle is fine, but not needed, then...why not add it just to make sure the title is more accurate, and suddenly the consternation in this topic literally doesn't exist at all? If they don't have a problem with putting the information on the box, then why not put that information in the title of the game, which I will reiterate is also part of a game's marketing and is, in fact, the one piece of information about a game that literally every potential buyer MUST recognize and interact with? It's very possible to buy the game without studying the text on the back of the box, it's impossible to buy it without seeing the title (unless you're like, buying it as part of a mystery box or something but obviously that's a different situation entirely anyway).
You say it's not a big deal and people are overreacting, but it's apparently enough of a deal to spawn a discussion that's gone on this long, a discussion that literally wouldn't have existed at all if they'd simply titled the game more accurately. Is it not worth removing the potential of that consumer confusion, whether you think it's a "big deal" or not? What's the harm?
Bizarre. Why isnt it the full game? I'll take what I can get, I guess, since I've waited so long.
It''s weird how some are saying nobody wouldn't know it isn't a remake of the full game but there are multiple people in this thread saying they didn't know, or know people who didn't know.
Long thread I guess
Long thread I guess
That's one way to put it.
Let's pretend I'm just your regular every day normal guy. I shop Amazon. I got to their site and either A) I just pre-order and move on or B) Read the bullet points of said product and see that it says "The first entry of a multi part..." which tells me, oh this is the first game.
I put money down that a lot of people will be the A choice of just looking to see the cover of the game and boom, pre-ordered.
Now I suspect online if you go to any site that's selling the game, we're going to see the same bullet points.
At least from retail, they're telling you that the game it multiple game entries. So I think that's a helpful point. But there's zero excuse to not have something on the cover of the game that says "Part 1" or maybe a subtitle. Like I mentioned before, maybe there's a sticker that comes on the shrink wrap of the game that says that it will be in multiple parts. Who knows. It's a pretty crazy ride though.
Wait, the game has to cover more than the fall of sector 7? Pretty sure it reaches the escape from midgar. Hell, they said Red was in the game. That already makes it post that point unless they changed where you get him in your party fsr.
Oh shoot yeah I got my two story points mixed up sorry! Yes you are right. It basically ends after escaping from Midgar. Better fix my post.
I can't imagine being this deliberately obtuse. Anyone who knows the first thing about marketing knows this is bullshit.
Not even slightly.
There's only one truth here.
This move is scummy, period.
You can see several people discovering it's not the full game ON THIS VERY TOPIC.
And this wasn't even necessary to prove the point.
It's not a circle. There are just people who can't accept the truth for whatever reason. There's 0 argument for the other side beside ignorance or worse.
I just can't believe there are people who don't think this is scummy.
The average customers of AAA video games are not the ones following every news and trailer.
I bet most of them won't even see latest opening movie trailer of the game before playing it themselves.
Only 770k views so far.
If the game only sells even triple of those numbers, it'd be a big bomb for SE.
And now people here expect those same audience to follow video games news site lol.
The average customers of AAA video games are not the ones following every news and trailer.
I bet most of them won't even see latest opening movie trailer of the game before playing it themselves.
Only 770k views so far.
If the game only sells even triple of those numbers, it'd be a big bomb for SE.
And now people here expect those same audience to follow video games news site lol.
It's certainly done to maximize profits and play on ignorance of consumers who dont read every interview or those that simply are at the store and see the game.
Consumers for games for the most part arent even allowed to touch or look at the back of a box until purchase. Most stores in the US keep games behind glass until an employee unlocks the case and takes it to counter for purchase.
"But that's the consumer's fault. They should ask to see the game box from the glass cover case and read the back to find out that this is only part one. I mean... it's on the consumer to engage with the product and know that!"
Its anti consumer, there no benefit for potential buyer at all for not being informed at very surface level for this.
i think it's more of a branding thing than malcontent on SE's part. they don't even know how future "episodes" will be meted out yet, like imagine a spinoff where the whole game takes place in Wutai, or something
but brass tacks is it scummy? yeah probably
but brass tacks is it scummy? yeah probably
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Shockingly I directed my basic question two hours ago, to someone who at the time was actively engaging in the topic, and once again never received a response. Weird how this keeps happening.
That is just my assumption, of course, but I find it hard to believe that they really made that initial announcement of the remake already knowing at the time that the game they release would be only Midgar, especially when they've admitted there's no plan in place for how many installments the project will ultimately contain or how long they're going to take to make them.
My personal tin-foil theory is that FF7R was a bit of a "Metroid Prime 4" situation for Square, as in, they knew that remaking FF7 would bring them a ton of attention and is a game that would sell gangbusters, so they announced it before they really had any sort of solidity to a plan of what it was going to end up being. In early planning they realized that remaking a game as large as this while still giving everything the sort of scope and detail they know people would be expecting and hyping themselves up for wouldn't be feasible, so the idea of installments was introduced and the initial project was limited to Midgar. But...the game was already announced as "Final Fantasy VII Remake," and marketing decided that it would be more to their advantage to not change and further clarify the title.
That is just my assumption, of course, but I find it hard to believe that they really made that initial announcement of the remake already knowing at the time that the game they release would be only Midgar, especially when they've admitted there's no plan in place for how many installments the project will ultimately contain or how long they're going to take to make them.
User warned: Antagonizing
anyone defending this is should seriously reconsider.
square knows what they're doing, and even if the majority of people know its a "part 1", 1% of what will surely be a multi-million selling title is still thousands of units. Just because its a footnote in product descriptions, doesn't mean its clearly communicated by the marketing/trailers. FFVII is critically acclaimed and beloved title that has received tons of exposure over the years, and the audience expands well outside of the hard-core fans who've been following the ongoing development of the remake.
I promise that there will be people who's first exposure to this title will be a trailer such as this one on release day, and will pick it based solely on that.
There's nothing here to indicate you are to receive anything less then the 'complete' remake.
they know what they're doing, and its extremely scummy.
edit: toned down heated post. sorry for the outburst.
square knows what they're doing, and even if the majority of people know its a "part 1", 1% of what will surely be a multi-million selling title is still thousands of units. Just because its a footnote in product descriptions, doesn't mean its clearly communicated by the marketing/trailers. FFVII is critically acclaimed and beloved title that has received tons of exposure over the years, and the audience expands well outside of the hard-core fans who've been following the ongoing development of the remake.
I promise that there will be people who's first exposure to this title will be a trailer such as this one on release day, and will pick it based solely on that.
There's nothing here to indicate you are to receive anything less then the 'complete' remake.
they know what they're doing, and its extremely scummy.
edit: toned down heated post. sorry for the outburst.
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I mean 40+ hours in a highly extended Midgar with high end production values and faithful and original composer involved orchestra sound track is a steal.
Playing the demo, I really think Square Enix is not whole without the directing skills of someone like sakaguchi and kitase. ff15 meandered in development hell and didn't release whole. Ff13...lol.
But provided a solid story and plot, they are killing it with FF7R. How they are tieing in modern gameplay mechanics while keeping the spirit of the original is so seamless.
Playing the demo, I really think Square Enix is not whole without the directing skills of someone like sakaguchi and kitase. ff15 meandered in development hell and didn't release whole. Ff13...lol.
But provided a solid story and plot, they are killing it with FF7R. How they are tieing in modern gameplay mechanics while keeping the spirit of the original is so seamless.
The OST is mostly being done by other composers. Although, Uemastsu has done the main theme song for the game. And obviously his original compositions are being used to inspire the music in the game.
And thinking this will be 40+ hours of main story is a bit hopeful.
If anything seeing how different the game is already from the demo they should have probably gone with Reimagined or something else other then Remake.
And yet you run into this "Everyone knows stuff cuz I know it" thing all the time, especially on this forum.
Absolutely none of this is relevant to why they should or shouldn't make it clearer to consumers that it's not a full remake.