People understand the FFVII Remake doesn’t say Part 1 for Square’s benefit, not the consumer’s benefit, right?

[BAD]

As I've said, the anger-worthy side is we get a j-rpg without endgame, postgame or even a full party.

If you cba to read the back or the psn page before throwing money at SE, you must be either an enthusiast (informed) or simply not care about money.

I mean, it's not a good move, but Mass Effect wasn't titled "Mass Effect part 1" and was developed as a saga from its reveal...

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Terrible comparison. Mass Effect was a new series and the developers told you how many parts it would be before it came out so you'd have a sense of the investment it would be to finish according to plan. No single entry became multiple unexpectedly when reprinted or ported later.

Final Fantasy VII Remake is a remaking of an existing single entry game, but unlike the title and cover art that match the original, this is turning that single game into an unknown number of episodes that anyone who hears about releasing and wants on nostalgia will buy or send their spouse to buy without ever knowing to check the size 8 font under the pictures on the back. There are numerous examples of people not knowing the title was not reflective of it being a full remake in this very thread.

When Harry Potter decided to take a single published book and make it multipart, they announced it as two parts and each one said in the title and on the poster which part you were seeing so you knew it wasn't the whole piece.

 

[karnage10]

wait! it isn't a full remake?

 

[Deleted member 8752]

so has there been a good argument as to why it shouldn't be on the front of the box yet? still seeing a lot of "it doesn't matter", but still not a good positive reason to NOT put "part 1" or something similar on the front

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The genuine argument is simply that it may lead to less sales. Really, people. It's okay to be a fan of a company but call them out for misleading labeling.

You know why they're doing it. It's not for aesthetic reasons. That's absurd as any text can be stylized however it needs to be to fit.

If one were to look at this cover art alone, absent other factors, there's no question they'd expect this to be the entire FF7 experience. The cover, by itself, is misleading.

Even if other marketing of the game has been forthcoming, there's no reason for this cover art to be inconsistent with that other marketing other than for one reason (see paragraph 1 above).

Call it what it is. Expecting people to do their research isn't a requirement on other remake covers. Because other remakes are the whole remade game's experience in a new form. This is different and that's okay, but the cover should absolutely reflect the difference.

Even if part one has a "complete game's" worth of content. It's still not a Final Fantasy VII completely remade. Just a part of it. This isn't rocket science.

Occam's Razor.

 

[jaymzi]

On this page we had "artistic choice" lmao.

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As bad as that is, it is actually the only legit argument I have read so far.

So that basically says it all.

 

[iamandy]

Terrible comparison. Mass Effect was a new series and the developers told you how many parts it would be before it came out so you'd have a sense of the investment it would be to finish according to plan. No single entry became multiple unexpectedly when reprinted or ported later.

Final Fantasy VII Remake is a remaking of an existing single entry game, but unlike the title and cover art that match the original, this is turning that single game into an unknown number of episodes that anyone who hears about releasing and wants on nostalgia will buy or send their spouse to buy without ever knowing to check the size 8 font under the pictures on the back. There are numerous examples of people not knowing the title was not reflective of it being a full remake in this very thread.

When Harry Potter decided to take a single published book and make it multipart, they announced it as two parts and each one said in the title and on the poster which part you were seeing so you knew it wasn't the whole piece.

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We didn't know The Last of Us were a series, and even so they launched a part II. DAMN anti consumer if you think about it.

 

[Plum]

I fixed the box-art, everyone:

 

[Banzai]

We didn't know The Last of Us were a series, and even so they launched a part II. DAMN anti consumer if you think about it.

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I can't tell if you guys are trolling or serious with this anymore lmao. This discussion is going in circles because of false equivalencies like this.

 

[Aztechnology]

Hence why I'll buy it once all parts are released in the definitive edition of whatever. I'm gonna be waiting either way.

 

[Aztechnology]

We didn't know The Last of Us were a series, and even so they launched a part II. DAMN anti consumer if you think about it.

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Lol this is the worst possible take I can imagine.

 

[Jamaro]

For those dismissing the issue, where do you draw the line? What if it took us two complete releases just to get through Midgar, but each was somehow enough to give us 35 hours of gameplay? Sure this seems ridiculous, but that's beside the point. If they aren't giving you a beginning to end remake it should be clearly labeled as such in the title regardless of how much game you're getting.

 

[The Unsent]

I fixed the box-art, everyone:

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Are you serious? :) They can simply put just part 1, or a subtitle... or if they can't come up with a cool sounding name, just "The Series Begins" as a caption, it better than the bait and switch simple name and art replica, and it might make you think "A series...?" and look further.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

Misleading and unethical. Hope EU courts get on top of this if Square doesnt make things clear.

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This is never going to happen.

 

[Ultimate Bear Cub]

wait! it isn't a full remake?

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SE's official stance is: "It is the first part of a multipart saga, it will eventually be a full remake (in obvious interviews you've seen baka), trust us and enjoy a busterfinger."

‐--------------------------------------- *flip here*

Disclaimer: You should have read the back cover CJ. Dun-dun-dun-dun, dunun dun duh nuuuuuu~, *flashes victory pose*.

 

[BAD]

Then he'll read the box text. Or the psn page text. Or the Amazon listing. Again, I agree the whole situation, starting with the fact the Remake saga will take 3-5 years minimum, has been a shit show. But I simply don't agree there is an intention of duping people.

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This is very naive. No, people buying a game they recognize from its franchise or title and cover DO NOT read small print on the back or the amazon text. People do not check if Madden 21 is only one conference of teams now. They do not try to double check that Resident Evil 2 is episodic one 2019. They buy what the art or trailer shows them of a franchise or old game they knew well.

If you take an existing media entry and split it up for its new release without a title or cover art change that indicates the split, you're being shady.

 

[Plum]

Are you serious? :) They can simply put just part 1, or a subtitle... or if they can't come up with a cool sounding name, just "The Series Begins" as a caption, it better than the bait and switch simple name and art replica, and it might make you think "A series...?" and look further.

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No I'm not serious lol

 

[The Unsent]

No I'm not serious lol

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Forgive me, there's so much fallacies. I genuinly would believe someone would think a more honest cover would make it a mess.

 

[Plum]

Now that I think about it there has been a relatively well-known situation like this before in the form of Black Mesa, the remake of Half Life.

However the only thing that shares is that it was an expanded remake of a single part of the original game. The title was changed to reflect this and, since it was basically just a glorified (but still really, really good) mod, expectations were much less substantial.

 

[Doorman]

I am imagining the year 2025, when Nintendo announces Super Metroid Remake. People are gonna go absolutely nutty. Wow they even recreated the original box art depicting Samus in a heated battle with Ridley, awesome. It's going to be great to see a lot of these classic moments updated and reimag--

Oh wait this game only takes place on Ceres Station. That's okay though, it was mentioned in some interviews some time, so people shouldn't be upset about the messaging. It's just a perfectly normal and expected thing for something branded a remake to only cover about 10% of its original source material.


On a more serious note, I agree with Htown's take. What good faith reason is there really for the game to be titled as it is, with the content being what it is? You can't even say "artistic authenticity to the original title and cover" because then you wouldn't even have "REMAKE" printed right there for Pete's sake. The game would just be Final Fantasy VII (2020). The remake already has alterations, what is the argument against being more transparent about what you're spending your money on here?

 

[jaymzi]

If Bluepoint releases a Demon's Souls remake for the PS5, first thing I am going to do is check the back of the box to make sure it ain't just the 1st Archstone in the remake.

 

[modsbox]

I mean, we're a month out from launch, the demo is out, and so many people are still hearing for the first time that it's not going to be a remake of the full game. People are absolutely going to buy this expecting it's a remake of the full game, and people are going to be heartbroken.

I mean, people have been anticipating this game for decades. First it was announced for the PS2 and then never mentioned again. Then it was teased with the PS3 tech demo. Then they finally announced it for the PS4. The reveal trailer even addressed how long people had been waiting for it. For a lot of people, a full remake of FFVII is their holy grail of gaming.

A common thread in all the stories of people explaining to their friends that it's not the whole game is that people don't believe it at first. It seems so counterintuitive. "Wait, the game called FFVII Remake isn't actually the whole game? You're joking, right?"

I absolutely do think that this could blow up in their faces come April 10.

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This. People have been looking forward to this game for a long, long time. This is not going to go well. The marketing has absolutely been, and continues to be, deceptive.

How SE intends to handle this when it inevitably blows up in their face is my question.

For example, as a purchaser you could easily make the argument that you bought a license to the complete experience and are thus entitled to the rest of the remade game once SE is finished with it. There's ample precedent for that with season passes, or with remake collections only including some of the game (or games) on the disc. Games absolutely continually ship without all of the material available at launch, this could be no different.

Looking at that cover it's pretty easy to argue that as a purchaser I bought a license to a complete remake, and the 'up to Midgar' part on the back is simply a detail of what I have available to me to start with.

Past that though, what is SE reasonably going to say to appease people that are upset about this? They haven't even committed to how many parts there will be or what they will cost, which is the obvious question people will have.

There will be many reasonable people who believe they bought a complete remake to the original game, and SE will be upsetting all of those people once the game launches and the folks they duped with the marketing realize what happened.

 

[Bufbaf]

All im saying is if this would be any other game era would be livid :p

It's more than "a bit scummy" if you ask me

 

[Deleted member 9584]

If Bluepoint releases a Demon's Souls remake for the PS5, first thing I am going to do is check the back of the box to make sure it ain't just the 1st Archstone in the remake.

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For what it's worth, the dragon on the bridge would make for a heck of a final boss.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

The genuine argument is simply that it may lead to less sales. Really, people. It's okay to be a fan of a company but call them out for misleading labeling.

You know why they're doing it. It's not for aesthetic reasons. That's absurd as any text can be stylized however it needs to be to fit.

If one were to look at this cover art alone, absent other factors, there's no question they'd expect this to be the entire FF7 experience. The cover, by itself, is misleading.

Even if other marketing of the game has been forthcoming, there's no reason for this cover art to be inconsistent with that other marketing other than for one reason (see paragraph 1 above).

Call it what it is. Expecting people to do their research isn't a requirement on other remake covers. Because other remakes are the whole remade game's experience in a new form. This is different and that's okay, but the cover should absolutely reflect the difference.

Even if part one has a "complete game's" worth of content. It's still not a Final Fantasy VII completely remade. Just a part of it. This isn't rocket science.

Occam's Razor.

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Great post. This is exactly what it boils down to.

 

[Lobster Roll]

wait! it isn't a full remake?

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As everybody supporting Square-Enix in this decision races one another to add karnage10 to their ignore list.

 

[The Unsent]

If Bluepoint releases a Demon's Souls remake for the PS5, first thing I am going to do is check the back of the box to make sure it ain't just the 1st Archstone in the remake.

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Well it's a remake so you you shouldn't expect anything lol.

You're getting a full game, if it's not the one on the front cover, that's your fault blahblah bullshit.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Imagine if Nintendo remade Ocarina of Time, called it "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Remake", but only included the events up to becoming Adult Link, and made absolutely no mention of that in the game's title or box cover...

 

[The Unsent]

Imagine if Nintendo remade Ocarina of Time, called if "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Remake", but only included the events up to becoming Adult Link, and made absolutely no mention of that in the game's title or box cover...

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It has to be exactly the same front cover as well, so there's not even a clue it's just child Link.

Well it might say on the back, but we've already got them then who don't follow the press releases. Fantastic.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Imagine if Nintendo remade Ocarina of Time, called if "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Remake", but only included the events up to becoming Adult Link, and made absolutely no mention of that in the game's title or box cover...

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Or any of the trailers lol. Era would be on fire for a week straight.

 

[Deleted member 9584]

Imagine if Nintendo remade Ocarina of Time, called it "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Remake", but only included the events up to becoming Adult Link, and made absolutely no mention of that in the game's title or box cover...

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It has to be exactly the same front cover as well, so there's not even a clue it's just child Link.

Well it might say on the back, but we've already got them then who don't follow the press releases. Fantastic.

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This is such a good meme.

 

[JaseC64]

Personally will not be supporting this project until it's done. I have a huge backlog. I can wait until the ps6 complete edition or the eventual ps7 "Definitely complete" edition.

 

[Arthands]

Nah this is a huge reach. FF7R part one is plenty enough. The other stuff that came after the game is just that, other stuff. Besides a newcomer isn't going to know about the other stuff anyway, so wouldn't be expecting it.

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Not true, FF7R is certainly not enough. New gamers join the gaming industry everyday, so there is possibility that they won't know at all, play it and discover that the story is incomplete with unsatisfying ending.

 

[The Unsent]

Or any of the trailers lol. Era would be on fire for a week straight.

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"This game is the remake so it doesn't have to be the same" is the most nonsensical to me, it's not like it's ignoring the whole basis of the game... so you can have some pre expectations, especially when the front cover wants you to. I think it's probably some deformed way of saying "judge it on its own merits" but it's so out of context with the topic.

 

[jaymzi]

It makes it even more funny when we have another full game remake in RE3 coming out a week earlier.

Ain't nobody going to read the back of that box.

 

[The Unsent]

It makes it even more funny when we have another full game remake in RE3 coming out a week earlier.

Ain't nobody going to read the back of that box.

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I know but is not a fair comparison because Square Enix have been honest about this for 5 years/pretending everyone follows the online information.

I guess the other counter argument, well FF VII has to be split up because of its size so people should already know that. (They shouldn't have to know how this would be done compared to other big RPGs)

 

[RadzPrower]

Yeah, it's clearly intended to benefit Square for several reasons including confusing a certain demographic of people as well as slightly quelling the "Half-Life" syndrome that episodic games can create in terms of demanding the next episode...for like 20 years now...

That said, they're also not being secretive about it being the first part in all other aspects of their presentation, so it's hardly what you could consider false advertising or even misleading people. I don't even follow or care about Final Fantasy and I knew it was only part 1 of...maybe more than 1?

It's hardly the most egregious example of trying to mislead consumers ever.

 

[The Unsent]

Yeah, it's clearly intended to benefit Square for several reasons including confusing a certain demographic of people as well as slightly quelling the "Half-Life" syndrome that episodic games can create in terms of demanding the next episode...for like 20 years now...

That said, they're also not being secretive about it being the first part in all other aspects of their presentation, so it's hardly what you could consider false advertising or even misleading people. I don't even follow or care about Final Fantasy and I knew it was only part 1 of...maybe more than 1?

It's hardly the most egregious example of trying to mislead consumers ever.

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I know but you're downplaying it as well. Just because you might know... but still you might want to take into account that they do say the information about multi parts... but it's coordinated so they can say the bare minimum to say the information it out there. But the simple front and logo may already bait them in. Whether there are worse examples doesn't absolve the point.

 

[AtomicShroom]

That said, they're also not being secretive about it being the first part in all other aspects of their presentation, so it's hardly what you could consider false advertising or even misleading people. I don't even follow or care about Final Fantasy and I knew it was only part 1 of...maybe more than 1?

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Just how hard would it be to slap "Part 1" or "The Midgar Story" under the title? Absolutely zero hard. There's a very obvious reason why they're not doing it.

 

[iamandy]

If Bluepoint releases a Demon's Souls remake for the PS5, first thing I am going to do is check the back of the box to make sure it ain't just the 1st Archstone in the remake.

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I would love a reimagining of the First archstone with new areas, new bosses and new gameplay mechanics.

 

[modsbox]

That said, they're also not being secretive about it being the first part in all other aspects of their presentation, so it's hardly what you could consider false advertising or even misleading people.

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Read that part again. Are you serious?

You're saying that 'they're only being intentionally misleading with the cover art from the box.' You know, the one thing that consumers will actually see in every physical and online store.

 

[mclem]

Has a game ever called itself part 1

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Has a game remake only been part of the original game before?

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Has a 'remake' of a game ever just been the first act or prologue of the original?

I personally don't think it should be called Part 1, something like The Midgar Chapters, or something classier they can be paid to come up with.

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...which is actually the first part of a multi-part remake of a larger mainframe game, funnily enough, although that wasn't by any stretch of the imagination a selling point of it! I think the *very* earliest releases didn't have the "I".

 

[OcelotUnit64]

Hold up, they're charging £50 for the first part alone? I was totally under the impression that you'd get the first part then the others at a later date for one price.

There could be six parts which would be £300 just to play the full story.

How isn't this a scandal?

 

[AtomicShroom]

Hold up, they're charging £50 for the first part alone? I was totally under the impression that you'd get the first part then the others at a later date for one price.

There could be six parts which would be £300 just to play the full story.

How isn't this a scandal?

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Apparently because the first part has been stretched out to hell with side-quests to make it a 50-hour affair worthy of a full game.

 

[SuperFakerBros]

Hold up, they're charging £50 for the first part alone? I was totally under the impression that you'd get the first part then the others at a later date for one price.

There could be six parts which would be £300 just to play the full story.

How isn't this a scandal?

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Well, to be fair, the remake will be very extensive and have a lot of additional content added to it. It will definitely be a full game. It just won't be a full remake of the original game. Honestly, my only real issue, and not even an issue for me but for other people, is that it doesn't clearly indicate on the front that it's a part of the whole remake

 

[The Unsent]

...which is actually the first part of a multi-part remake of a larger mainframe game, funnily enough, although that wasn't by any stretch of the imagination a selling point of it! I think the *very* earliest releases didn't have the "I".

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I haven't played or heard about it so I can't get into the comparison but if it's like FF VII Remake's case, it's shit too. I do know there was a Godfather comparison not adapting all the different parts of the books, and the sequel continue this, but the poster didn't consider the context or how they still made the first film have a fulfilling ending. I think that's the thing, even some simple comparisons are sometimes more than meets the eye.

 

[RadzPrower]

I know but you're downplaying it as well. Just because you might know... but still you might want to take into account that they do say the information about multi parts... but it's coordinated so they can say the bare minimum to say the information it out there. But the simple front and logo may already bait them in. Whether there are worse examples doesn't absolve the point.

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Just how hard would it be to slap "Part 1" or "The Midgar Story" under the title? Absolutely zero hard. There's a very obvious reason why they're not doing it.

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Read that part again. Are you serious?

You're saying that 'they're only being intentionally misleading with the cover art from the box.' You know, the one thing that consumers will actually see in every physical and online store.

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I still don't think it's that big a deal. My bigger concern is what the hell are they going to call part 2 if it ever exists?

I don't see them being misleading with the cover art...because frankly, I don't expect a part 2 and I'm not sure they do either. This may literally be the entirety of the remake. That said, reading the description, I actually understand why they might go the route of avoiding Part 1, 2, etc. It sounds like these are intended to be full games that standalone (and this one may in the end), so I get not wanting to include that.

However, I will concede that just going with "Remake" doesn't really work as that should be reserved for the saga rather than one part. I have a feeling what we'll see is something similar to what other sagas/trilogies have done and had the first one be just the name, then the second part will be part 2 or some subtitle, part 3, etc. That works for a new saga or trilogy, especially if you don't know it's going to go beyond the one entry, but it is kind of shady in the context of an existing and known quantity. It'd be like remaking Star Wars and just calling Episode 1 "Star Wars".

So, after that consideration, I suspect that somebody had the idea of going with that sort of naming schema and didn't consider the implications of it in terms of consumer visibility. It's an issue to be sure, but I'm just not 100% convinced it was intentionally deceptive or manipulative. It just seems kind of tone-deaf.

 

[mclem]

I haven't played or heard about it so I can't get into the comparison but if it's like FF VII Remake's case, it's shit too. I do know there was a comparison when a Godfather comparion not adapting all the different parts of the books, and the sequel continue this, but the poster didn't consider the context or how they still made the first fim have a fulfilling ending. I think that's the thing, even some simple comparison are sometimes more than meets the eye.

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Well, it's perhaps worth bearing in mind that this would effectively have been a *downgrade*, since it's being ported from a game played on powerful (well, in the context of the late seventies!) mainframes to home computers with significantly less memory to work with; very much a relic of a very different time; splitting into three was a necessity of the hardware.

 

[Plum]

Hold up, they're charging £50 for the first part alone? I was totally under the impression that you'd get the first part then the others at a later date for one price.

There could be six parts which would be £300 just to play the full story.

How isn't this a scandal?

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Because they're expanding it with new stuff!

Of course that doesn't negate the fact that to experience all the old stuff remade you're going to have to buy every part anyway. The new stuff is, regardless of quality, just extra content that will try and make up for the fact that you're not getting everything that you're actually nostalgic for.

 

[The Unsent]

I still don't think it's that big a deal. My bigger concern is what the hell are they going to call part 2 if it ever exists?

I don't see them being misleading with the cover art...because frankly, I don't expect a part 2 and I'm not sure they do either. This may literally be the entirety of the remake. That said, reading the description, I actually understand why they might go the route of avoiding Part 1, 2, etc. It sounds like these are intended to be full games that standalone (and this one may in the end), so I get not wanting to include that.

However, I will concede that just going with "Remake" doesn't really work as that should be reserved for the saga rather than one part. I have a feeling what we'll see is something similar to what other sagas/trilogies have done and had the first one be just the name, then the second part will be part 2 or some subtitle, part 3, etc. That works for a new saga or trilogy, especially if you don't know it's going to go beyond the one entry, but it is kind of shady in the context of an existing and known quantity. It'd be like remaking Star Wars and just calling Episode 1 "Star Wars".

So, after that consideration, I suspect that somebody had the idea of going with that sort of naming schema and didn't consider the implications of it in terms of consumer visibility. It's an issue to be sure, but I'm just not 100% convinced it was intentionally deceptive or manipulative. It just seems kind of tone-deaf.

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Well of course if they don't make part 2, (they're working on it) they still could give it a subtitle without 1 in it.

 

[mclem]

Why is it surprising? You're talking as if this is going to be a 10-20 hour experience. They've already said multiple times that they're splitting the story into a saga of 'full games'. While it is technically episodic, this isn't really the same as something like TWD or Life is Strange. Especially with these production values.

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I'm very curious what we're actually going to get in the final product, because until we see it in detail we're largely taking that on trust at the moment. There's definitely going to have to be some changes, though, good though Midgar is as an Act 1 of a story, it'd definitely need some beefing up to make it a suitably climactic ending to be a satisfying standalone tale.

 

[AtomicShroom]

I still don't think it's that big a deal. My bigger concern is what the hell are they going to call part 2 if it ever exists?

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Oh my are you really so unimaginative?

How about "Part 2" or "Aerith Dies"?

Or maybe something like "Around the world". Or "Jenova awakens". Or whatever. I'm sure they could think of something good.