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KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,930
Massachusetts
We live in a market where Link's Awakening was $60.

I can see why some people would defend FFVII only encompassing Midgar, given the production values. I think it would've been wise to call it something like "FFVII: Midgar" or whatever.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,618
I'm sure it will say something in the description on the back of the box. And tbh any Google search will tell you its part 1. Don't think its a big deal, people are not as dumb as you think.

But, If you are someone thats going to spend $60? on something without the slightest bit of research, like reading a page description lol, well I just don't know what to tell you. Better luck next time I guess.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,657
Doesn't matter who it "helps" when it doesn't hurt a single consumer. It "helped" Marvel to remove the "Part 1" from Avengers Infinity War title and posters by making the ending more of a surprise to consumers who aren't big fans following all the news, it didnt hurt those people, they still got a full 2 hour movie, and a fun surprise at how it ended. Similarly, consumers here are still getting a full 40 hour game.

Neither of those films were claiming to be a remake of a previous film.

This is claiming to be a remake of a previous game, and it's not. That's the whole issue.

I swear to god, these examples are just disingenuous at this point.
 

hrœrekr

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 3, 2019
1,655
Second part will be called "Final Fantasy Remake" too, and in the back we will read up to what point of the story it covers. Great!
 

Deleted member 32135

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 9, 2017
1,555
Explicitly spelling out exactly what a product is "isn't enough"? By that ludicrous metric literally nothing would every be enough. You're actively hurting the position you're advancing by bringing to to farcical levels. By your, again ludicrous, metric literally nothing that doesnt have a defined end point could be sold to a consumer.

This is a remake of a product with over 20 years on his back. We are talking here about a complete and closed story that producers and distributors already know how long it will take to cover and in how many parts they will tackle it. We are not taking about a new game that maybe, if the reception is good, will have a second and third entries. It's not the same case by any means.

The situation of FFVII Remake is closer to the ones of collectible fascicles, where the producer knows in advance how many fascicles will be launched to complete the collection and, in many countries, it's regulated by law that they must inform the consumer how long it will take the collection to complete.

FFVII Remake is a fucking joke for consumer rights and information.
 

Uthred

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
We live in a market where Link's Awakening was $60.

I can see why some people would defend FFVII only encompassing Midgar, given the production values. I think it would've been wise to call it something like "FFVII: Midgar" or whatever.

I think FFVII Remake - Midgar would have been fine. It lets you know its a remake while also making it distinct.

This is a remake of a product with over 20 years on his back. We are talking here about a complete and closed story that producers and distributors already know how long it will take to cover and in how many parts they will tackle it. We are not taking about a new game that maybe, if the reception is good, will have a second and third entries. It's not the same case by any means.

The situation of FFVII Remake is closer to the ones of collectible fascicles, where the producer knows in advance how many fascicles will be launched to complete the collection and, in many countries, it's regulated by law that they must inform the consumer how long it will take the collection to complete.

FFVII Remake is a fucking joke for consumer rights and information.

The bolded part isn't true though. As the first game shows they are extensively adding things to the story. They probably have a projected amount of entries but I sincerely doubt anything is set in stone. The situation with FVIIR is like a series of books that was originally planned to be a trilogy but ends up becoming a quatrology. When that happens it is not "a fucking joke for consumer rights and information". You're overstating your case to the point of making it laughable.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
10,196
It's extremely silly and I dunno why they weren't just upfront with it. Hell, even a subtitle would have worked. Kinda odd they didn't go that route considering this is Nomura we're talking about.

But I'm not at all opposed to it being split up into parts, it's the best possible scenario IMO. Midgar has more than enough content to fill an entire game - it's a massive city. If anything I wish the original spent more time there. It's just the marketing side of things that is gross.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,091
Providence, RI
Doesn't matter who it "helps" when it doesn't hurt a single consumer. It "helped" Marvel to remove the "Part 1" from Avengers Infinity War title and posters by making the ending more of a surprise to consumers who aren't big fans following all the news, it didnt hurt those people, they still got a full 2 hour movie, and a fun surprise at how it ended. Similarly, consumers here are still getting a full 40 hour game.

Please stop making bad analogies if you're going to try and defend the decision.

Your example is not at all the same thing. Not remotely.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,000
God I love people arguing that nobody would be confused by this, ignoring all the people talking about how common it is for people to be unaware that it's not the full game and people who have worked in retail talking about how something being written on the back of the box does not stop confusion.
They don't have to since it's on the back of the box.

I'm really curious to see if this actually turns out to be an issue at release or if this just winds up being a bunch of pointless hand wringing in the end.
I love how you reply to this post without even reading the rest of the conversation. "BUT IT'S ON THE BACK OF THE BOX!!!"
I literally just said that in most stores you can't even freely look at the back of the box and the average Joe that sees the box and saw a trailer on YouTube has zero reason to bother even reading the back of the box.
 

KaiPow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,116
People also dont read that on the original cover, It was my standard practice to for me to have the staff tell that to people when buying an online only game. You had plenty of people that would turn down the sale after that.

I totally agree. Did my time with three years as a keyholder and had it ingrained in my staff that informing the customer and making them happy was far more important the quick sale.

I'm in the camp that Square should call it SOMETHING besides just FFVIIR. Even if it's just Final Fantasy VII Remake: Midgar; that sets up the expectation to the customer that maybe this is just a piece of something greater.
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,276
Because nobody puts it in the first part. Mass effect didn't, Harry Potter didn't. It's is ugly to call something "part x".

Mass Effect wasn't a remake of a pre-existing story. It also had a fairly definitive ending despite leaving room for sequels which the vast majority of new franchises do.

Harry Potter was already established as a multi-part franchise and the first film had a subtitle whereas Final Fantasy VII Remake does not.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Neither of those films were claiming to be a remake of a previous film.

This is claiming to be a remake of a previous game, and it's not. That's the whole issue.

I swear to god, these examples are just disingenuous at this point.
How does that hurt a single person? Can you give any examples at all where someone is harmed by not knowing that there are going to be more full games in the series after this full game? I guess if someone has 40 hours to live, has never played FFVII so doesn't already know the full story, and can only choose one game to play, maybe this isn't the best choice for them?
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,657
Because nobody puts it in the first part. Mass effect didn't, Harry Potter didn't. It's is ugly to call something "part x".

A work that later gets sequels is different from a work that claims to be a remake of a previous work and only remakes part of it.

And when they split Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows into two films, they absolutely did say Part 1 and Part 2, because otherwise people would have lost their shit. Twilight's Breaking Dawn Part 1 and Part 2 did the same. Hunger Games' Mockingjay Part 1 and Part 2 did the same.
 

rpm

Into the Woods
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,348
Parts Unknown
I mean, who could possibly be confused? Literally every single person buying this game has followed the news surrounding the remake. Good thing they aren't trying to get anyone outside of hardcore gamers who follow all the news to buy this game. I gotta say, very bold move to have a $0 advertising budget for this game
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
There's laws against this. If your argument against a company being purposefully misleading is "well the consumer shouldn't be an idiot" then you've already lost that argument.
You might have a point if this information wasn't readily available, but it is up to including the box. Why should I care about the person who can't bother even looking up a game? Are studios to blame for idiots who blindly buy an R rated movie and watch it with their kids?
 

Era Uma Vez

Member
Feb 5, 2020
3,205
Because nobody puts it in the first part. Mass effect didn't, Harry Potter didn't. It's is ugly to call something "part x".
Mass Effect isn't a remake of an original game.
If there was an original Mass Effect 20 years ago that covered the entire trilogy and was just called Mass Effect, and then you get a remake 20 years later, called Mass Effect Remake, you wouldn't assume that the game stopped after Saren's attack on the Citadel.

Also, it's an odd decision from Square. They get bad press, cuz it's a scummy thing to do, but if their goal was to "trick" anyone, well, I doubt that there will be a significant number of people buying this game thinking it's the whole thing.
"Final Fantasy VII Remake" isn't the type of game that the average consumer just picks up while passing by a gamestore and says: "im gonna blind buy this".
If they're a fan of the original, I assume they'll make some research.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,525
God I love people arguing that nobody would be confused by this, ignoring all the people talking about how common it is for people to be unaware that it's not the full game and people who have worked in retail talking about how something being written on the back of the box does not stop confusion.

I love how you reply to this post without even reading the rest of the conversation. "BUT IT'S ON THE BACK OF THE BOX!!!"
I literally just said that in most stores you can't even freely look at the back of the box and the average Joe that sees the box and saw a trailer on YouTube has zero reason to bother even reading the back of the box.
lmao I guess we'll see what happens, but I don't think this is going to end up being as big a deal as some of you are acting like.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Mass Effect wasn't a remake of a pre-existing story. It also had a fairly definitive ending despite leaving room for sequels which the vast majority of new franchises do.

Harry Potter was already established as a multi-part franchise and the first film had a subtitle whereas Final Fantasy VII Remake does not.
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone/Philosopher's Stone has no subtitle
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,000
The number of people coming into the thread saying "nobody would get confused by this" without reading the thread and being provided lots of examples of people being confused by this and other stories of confusion told by people who have worked in retail is basically poetry.
 

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,733
Canada
My cousin is a huge fan of FF7 and is really excited for the game. He works in the games industry and had played the demo at Gamescom. When I told him the game would just be Midgar only, he was dumbfounded. He's still getting the game obviously but like if he was caught off guard, I imagine a lot of casual fans of the original will be.
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,784
Brazil
They had 2 choices, make non informed people thinking it's a full remake or make non informed people thinking it's a Telltale game.

Even people on a hardcore forum like era doesn't notice that FFVIIR is a full game. Some are waiting for the actual "full game" or are expecting some kind of save game lv/other transfer like if the second game will 100% have the same structure.

It's just assumptions from the 2 sides, it would be dumb for the SE pr team to go into the other way around. Tho this decision may bite them in the ass on the long run, who knows?

Of course it's for SE's benefit, nobody implied otherwise. Nobody is saying SE is being nice doing this, this argument is a silly strawman for the opposite point of view.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
The "but do research" point has already been appropriately countered earlier and you're just repeating it.

Again: what is the point of your argument? That you believe it shouldn't have Part 1 in the title? You agree that was the correct decision?
How was it countered exactly? Can't say I remember that part. My argument is I don't care and anyone who ends up upset by this only has themselves to blame. They could call it something else and it wouldn't bother me but I also don't think it's some evil thing.
 

SpecX

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,810
Part 1 looks bad. It should've been called Final Fantasy VII Remake: Midgar.
I like that and think it would of worked well. I think since this is the initial release, they are leading the marketing with this launch being "The Remake" that started it all. When Part 2 releases, they will do something like this with the 2nd chapter and will probably re-brand the first chapter as Part 1/Midgar/something like that.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,091
Providence, RI

It factually is not

Because it is designed to be a multi part story. There's not much to be said beyond this.

Not a single person is arguing that Part 1 should be in the title simply because it is a "multi-part story."

The issue is that it is a remake of a known story and only about 1/4 of the story yet is simply called "Final Fantasy VII Remake."

I think you understand this but you're making dishonest arguments.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
You might have a point if this information wasn't readily available, but it is up to including the box. Why should I care about the person who can't bother even looking up a game? Are studios to blame for idiots who blindly buy an R rated movie and watch it with their kids?
That's nowhere near enough, seems your unaware how many class action lawsuits have been successfullt won even within the industry other stuff like this. It's very misleading and they're opening themselves up to this.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,349
Did everyone arguing that there's no way a consumer could be misinformed by the name of a product just blank out the entire lifespan of the Wii U, where its entire life people were confused it was a Wii add on?

This is misleading in the opposite direction, but still
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,561
It actually is. Because it is designed to be a multi part story. There's not much to be said beyond this.
Except one of them isn't a drastic restructuring that piggybacks off the branding (to the point of using the exact same box art) of a 20+ year old game to mislead people. This isn't the same thing, some of y'all are being so willfully obtuse
 

Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,276
But what if I didn't know that? What if I am a low information consumer? Subtitle doesn't tell me this is part 1.

I honestly don't want to argue with this because it's an inherently disingenuous point that just has to be intentionally ignoring how flawed of a comparison it is.

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone has no subtitle

giphy.gif


You knew exactly what I was referring to there.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
That's nowhere near enough, seem your unaware how many class action lawsuits have been successfullt won even within the industry other stuff like this. It's very misleading and they're opening themselves up to this.
in what way would any of those people be harmed? A lawsuit is pointless if people haven't been harmed.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,091
Providence, RI
If you feel so strongly about it don't buy it and tell other people not to buy it.

That's the point: most people aren't upset about this to that point.

That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be pointed out that leaving "Part 1" out of the title is misleading and should be in it.

That's all most people are trying to say. It's the most lukeworm common sense take ever. And yet, somehow, some people are trying to find a way to be argumentative about it.
 
Dec 6, 2017
10,986
US
If we assume Square didn't leave it out of the title for the most absolutely obvious reason, what is their actual reasoning for it then?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,928
Brazil
It's pretty disgusting, especially compounded by the cover that tries to mimic the original one.

It's also disgusting the amount of people saying they don't care if people don't do research, it's their fault. People nowadays only show empathy to their favorite soulless corporations.

Imagine buying the Crash or Spyro remakes and having to read the back of the box to make sure they are complete remakes.

Anyway, I gotta refrain from reading the topic or I'll get banned for abusing the report system.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I honestly don't want to argue with this because it's an inherently disingenuous point that just has to be intentionally ignoring how flawed of a comparison it is.



giphy.gif


You knew exactly what I was referring to there.
Yes, you were calling the title of a movie the subtitle. If somebody had no idea about Harry Potter books, they would not think that title meant there would be more in the series. Nothing about the movie title makes it clear in any way that it isn't "the complete story".
 

Meg Cherry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,261
Seattle, WA
Even if Square is 'legally' covered, it seems like they're willingly setting the rest of this project to fail when audiences realize they paid full price for a fraction of what was advertised to them - and then Square asks them to do it again in two years.

This thread seems very content for these people to 'learn a lesson' if they buy this without doing extra research, but the only lesson they'll learn is "Don't buy Final Fantasy games."