People really need to start blaming Take Two more regarding MTX and Monetization in Rockstar games

[Deleted member 59955]

I find it quite odd that with GTA Online and Red Dead Online, people are quick to blame Rockstar for everything wrong with the monetization in their online modes but they don't mention Take Two or 2K but with devs like Bioware or Dice or Bethesda, they'll claim that it's the publishers fault.

I think more people need to realize that shark cards and gold bars and the grindy systems can't all be Rockstar's fault. Take Two has a big hand in it. Take Two is the one who calls the shots and decides the monetization systems and the profit goals. This is backed up by the fact that the grindy MTX systems in Rockstar's online modes, are in all of Take Two's games. It can't just be a Rockstar thing.

I feel like people need to start placing the blame on Take Two either equally or more. I've seen some people act like Rockstar is EA or Bethesda just because of GTAO or RDRO. It's weird. Like show me all the season passes Rockstar does or all those yearly games or all those loot boxes or all those mobile games with loot boxes in them or all those MTX patents or all those pre order bonuses.

Point is, people need to be aware of Take Two/2K more and learn about how the publisher works with the development team.

 

[jesu]

and learn about how the publisher works with the development team.

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Can you teach us?

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

Sure Take Two deserves some blame but Rockstar could push back more against Take Two MTX policies. I mean somehow Randy Pitchford and Gearbox convinced Take Two not to add in their usual MTX with Borderlands 3. Borderland games sell a fraction of what Rockstar games sell so why can't Rockstar push back to? Maybe because they don't want to?

 

[King_Moc]

How do you know it's not Rockstar's idea? Just because you like their games, doesn't mean they can't have a scummy idea.

Edit: see above post. Yeah, B3 is ripe for this shit and has none of it. And they're run by Randy Pitchford. Maybe just accept that plenty of responsibility lies with Rockstar.

 

[Deleted member 59955]

Can you teach us?

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The publisher typically deals with profits and revenue. They handle everything that has to do with money and profts. Take Two presumably sets revenue goals for Rockstar that they have to hit.

 

[jesu]

The publisher typically deals with profits and revenue. They handle everything that has to do with money and profts. Take Two presumably sets revenue goals for Rockstar that they have to hit.

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Oh, I thought you knew more about the Take Two and Rockstar relationship specifically.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

Rockstar has a monetization team that just develops how to make money for the game post launch, same with other developers. T2 tells them they have to include it, but the developer usually has a team that makes them.

Edit: This is as I understand it after having been a games journo for 5 years.

 

[Serene]

Rockstar makes more money than any AAA developer in the world on a per game basis

if you think T2 is some overlord forcing decisions on them or making them exploit things in the exact way that they are, you're crazy

 

[Nome]

The publisher typically deals with profits and revenue. They handle everything that has to do with money and profts. Take Two presumably sets revenue goals for Rockstar that they have to hit.

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Wrong, kind of.
Yes, they set targets, but targets are based on projections that Rockstar's product creates.

 

[Deleted member 59955]

Rockstar has a monetization team that just develops how to make money for the game post launch, same with other developers. T2 tells them they have to include it, but the developer usually has a team that makes them.

Edit: This is as I understand it after having been a games journo for 5 years.

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Now this makes sense.

Sure Take Two deserves some blame but Rockstar could push back more against Take Two MTX policies. I mean somehow Randy Pitchford and Gearbox convinced Take Two not to add in their usual MTX with Borderlands 3. Borderland games sell a fraction of what Rockstar games sell so why can't Rockstar push back to? Maybe because they don't want to?

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Well for one Take Two owns Rockstar and is their parent company. Take Two doesn't own Gearbox. Rockstar is a subsidiary of Take Two. Maybe Gearbox has a contract with Take Two.

 

[Bricktop]

Rockstar prints money, they can do whatever they want. Don't pretend they aren't 100% responsible for the things that go into their games. Take Two ain't telling Rockstar shit.

 

[Imitation Of Life]

Rockstar has a monetization team that just develops how to make money for the game post launch, same with other developers. T2 tells them they have to include it, but the developer usually has a team that makes them.

Edit: This is as I understand it after having been a games journo for 5 years.

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How did BL3 manage to get by without that requirement?

 

[Deleted member 59955]

Rockstar makes more money than any AAA developer in the world on a per game basis

if you think T2 is some overlord forcing decisions on them or making them exploit things in the exact way that they are, you're crazy

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I don't think that T2 are overlords but I do think they're half to blame or equally to blame.

 

[Anustart]

Why are we fighting mtx?

They're what's allowed support for expanding the game for people who aren't buying the mtx.

Some mtx are obviously junk but ones like this seem to be ok in my book. Same with gacha games. Lot of ftp players reap the benefits of those paying.

 

[Deleted member 18944]

How did BL3 manage to get by without that requirement?

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I've no idea the inner workings and negotiations that happen between the devs and publisher. Just because T2 says to Rockstar that they want the game to make this amount of money and if they have an online portion to have options that makes the game even more money, doesn't mean they say the same thing to other developers.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

Why are we fighting mtx?

They're what's allowed support for expanding the game for people who aren't buying the mtx.

Some mtx are obviously junk but ones like this seem to be ok in my book. Same with gacha games. Lot of ftp players reap the benefits of those paying.

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You're talking about the publisher with both a game that operates almost identically to a casino, and a game with literally a casino in it you can use real money in in a game that appeals to teenagers? And gacha games under investigation across the world that have proven links to financial ruin, suicide, broken families, extreme addiction, etc, etc? Those ones?

Justifying them with "im glad I am a free rider on these externalized costs on society and otherwise" is not necessarily a good look

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

Same with gacha games

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Gacha games and lootboxes are unregulated gambling preying on addicts (whales) and children. They should be banned in video games. They're all bad.

Time limited shops and battlepasses are scummy but don't need to be banned. Cosmetic stores that allow you to buy items in the game for a price without gambling or FOMO mechanics are fine.

 

[Spacejaws]

Wasn't it 2k that everyone pretty much agreed killed Evolve with it's excessive mtx marketing?

I fucking loved that game. Fuck 2k.

 

[Deeke]

Rockstar are literal rockstars at Take-Two. That's why the publisher lets them delay their games and take years to develop them.

TTWO isn't about to start squeezing their cash crop super hard. We have to blame both of we're to blame at all, and it's not like Ttwo is mandating anything.

Theyve legit expected GTA Online to slow down for many quarters now and the game refused to let up. Because it makes money, it's cemented itself into R*'s DNA.

It's only successful because people are buying things, too, so we have to blame everyone involved: TTWO, Rockstar, and gamers.

 

[King_Moc]

Why are we fighting mtx?

They're what's allowed support for expanding the game for people who aren't buying the mtx.

Some mtx are obviously junk but ones like this seem to be ok in my book. Same with gacha games. Lot of ftp players reap the benefits of those paying.

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The op is talking about a game that's sold 115m copies. Yeah, I'm sure they'd have been struggling for food, let alone updates, without mtx.

 

[oneils]

I seem to remember seeing stats like gta online had $800 million in sales its first year. If that's true, I don't know why rockstar would push back on that.

 

[Calvarok]

does it really matter who is blamed as long as the blame is audible?

 

[Don Fluffles]

Publishers, the money-people should definitely be blamed. They're mostly responsible for any stupid MTX in games.

 

[MarioW]

The notion that development studios or individual developers aren't to an extent motivated by money, profits, bonuses, whatever is fairly naive, leaning on the notion that developers are all in it "for the art alone".

That can certainly be true, mostly at a smaller scale, but a commercialized operation like Rockstar almost certainly has revenue and profitability goals of their own, even before a parent company or publisher comes into the mix. You can't sustainably run a large scale development studio, especially not one building massive games, without caring about money. Doing so also doesn't require ignoring quality, fun, or customers.

More development studios should care about money and profitability to be honest. Less people would probably lose their life savings (or at least their jobs) that way.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Rockstar & The Houser Brothers are in the position of power in this relationship; as they are the main reason why Take Two are even still afloat as a publisher. THEY are the ones that dictate terms, not Take Two.

All of the monetisation see from Rockstar's games comes purely from Rockstar themselves. Take Two have nothing to do with them.

If you want even further proof? Look no further than Borderlands 3; a game that is absolutely begging to be filled with microtransactions and yet magically has none.

 

[Maturin]

Rockstar is Take Two. Don't misunderstand the relationship.

 

[Queen Of Hunting]

i mean during the whole battlefront 2 in came out by many verified people that devs are 9x out of 10 making the decisions not the publishers and the devs can be pretty brutal at times.

but some reason people always white knight devs and completey screw publishers with agendas and everything

 

[Flame Lord]

If there's one dev that could effectively tell a publisher to fuck off when it comes to bullshit like this, it's Rockstar. I find it hard to believe they don't have a part in all of it.

 

[Richter1887]

Rockstar and Take2 are partners. T2 would be nothing without them so it would naive to think T2 is the ones forcing them.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

How did BL3 manage to get by without that requirement?

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That's easy.

Gearbox is indipendent and they own the Borderlands IP.
Take-Two has publishing rights and they don't have any "power" to force Gearbox to put MTX in Borderlands 3.

I mean, Take-Two really loves Gearbox since they funded two of their games that bombed tremendously and the Borderlands IP makes a lot of money.

Rockstar and Take2 are partners. T2 would be nothing without them so it would naive to think T2 is the ones forcing them.

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They are not partners at all.

Take-Two owns Rockstar, Private Division, 2K assets, IPs and all their studios, all of them.

Rockstar and 2K are T2 subsidiaries.

 

[Richter1887]

They are not partners at all.

Take-Two owns Rockstar, Private Division, 2K assets, IPs and all their studios, all of them.

Rockstar and 2K are T2 subsidiaries.

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Except they are partners in the sense that Rockstar could leave them if they wanted. Rockstar owns their games and IPs and they are the ones carrying T2.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I don't think anyone is under the impression that Take Two isn't partly to blame, it's just that Rockstar has more leverage and negotiating power than any other developer/publisher relationship.

NBA2k is as egregiously monetized as any game, GTA5 has a literal casino in it. They sound like they deserve each other?

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Except they are partners in the sense that Rockstar could leave them if they wanted. Rockstar owns their games and IPs and they are the ones carrying T2.

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No, Rockstar can't leave Take-Two at all lol

Are you aware that Take-Two BOUGHT Rockstar in 1997 and funded 2K Games in 2005 and opened Private Division 3 years ago?
If not, now you are aware.

And look who owns GTA trademark https://trademarks.justia.com/861/24/grand-theft-86124384.html

This is like saying Blizzard can leave Activision Blizzard lol

 

[Richter1887]

No, Rockstar can't leave Take-Two at all lol

Are you aware that Take-Two BOUGHT Rockstar in 1997 and funded 2K Games in 2005?
If not, now you are aware.

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They can buy themselves out if they want. It has been done before.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

They can buy themselves out if they want. It has been done before.

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And what are they going to accomplish if they buy themselves out?
Absolutely nothing, because GTA is owned by Take-Two and all Rockstar IPs.

 

[Deleted member 36086]

The publisher typically deals with profits and revenue. They handle everything that has to do with money and profts. Take Two presumably sets revenue goals for Rockstar that they have to hit.

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I actually think it's the other way around. Dev pitches an idea to the publisher and says this game we want to make can make this much money, and this is how we are going to do it.

 

[Richter1887]

And what are they going to accomplish if they buy themselves out?
Absolutely nothing, because GTA is owned by Take-Two and all Rockstar IPs.

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GTA and all IPs are owned and published by Rockstar. T2 don't own them.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

GTA and all IPs are owned and published by Rockstar. T2 don't own them.

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Why are you stubborn and you can't read?
GTA https://trademarks.justia.com/861/24/grand-theft-86124384.html
RDR https://trademarks.justia.com/777/54/red-dead-77754076.html
Midnight Club https://trademarks.justia.com/765/48/midnight-76548509.html

And Take-Two is the one publishing all Rockstar, 2K and Private Division games.

GTA V publisher -> Take-Two Interactive
BL3 and NBA 2K20 publishers -> Take-Two Interactive



I guess NPD is wrong and you are right?

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Rockstars value isn't tied to the GTA IP or the RDR IP, the employee's could leave if they felt like they could find a better deal somewhere else, and every AAA publisher in the world would get into a massive bidder war to get them.

That's why Take Two lets them do whatever they want and gives them special benefits that most other developers don't get, and that's why Rockstar stays with Take Two.

 

[Deleted member 8196]

Rockstars value isn't tied to the GTA IP or the RDR IP, the employee's could leave if they felt like they could find a better deal somewhere else, and every AAA publisher in the world would get into a massive bidder war to get them.

That's why Take Two lets them do whatever they want and gives them special benefits that most other developers don't get, and that's why Rockstar stays with Take Two.

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The fact is that they can't have a better deal somewhere, Rockstar has an """infinite budget""" and the "GTA" brand alone is big enough to keep people at the studio.

Take-Two can easily spend 200-300 million USD in development budget for GTA and RDR and they know that they will break even in day 0.
Activision Blizzard is another publisher that can do the same but only for COD.

 

[Richter1887]

Why are you stubborn and you can't read?
GTA https://trademarks.justia.com/861/24/grand-theft-86124384.html
RDR https://trademarks.justia.com/777/54/red-dead-77754076.html
Midnight Club https://trademarks.justia.com/765/48/midnight-76548509.html

And Take-Two is the one publishing all Rockstar, 2K and Private Division games.

GTA V publisher -> Take-Two Interactive
BL3 and NBA 2K20 publishers -> Take-Two Interactive



I guess NPD is wrong and you are right?

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I didn't see your edits cause I posted before but yes I admit I was wrong.

However, I still stand by my point that if Rockstar wanted to leave or hell, the talent alone left, that Take 2 would go down.

Rockstar is very important to them and are the main thing carrying the company. They have tons of power over Take 2 because they are the ones carrying them. Thus the result is that Rockstar can't be forced to do what they don't want.

 

[TheRulingRing]

Why are we fighting mtx?

They're what's allowed support for expanding the game for people who aren't buying the mtx.

Some mtx are obviously junk but ones like this seem to be ok in my book. Same with gacha games. Lot of ftp players reap the benefits of those paying.

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Some people do it because they genuinely care about the 1% of people who have issues with gambling personality, but most people just don't like the type of game microtransactions lead to.

GTA Online doesn't (*didn't) even have gambling like mechanics, but people just hated on the mtx anyway because they hate online and just want Rockstar to stick to single player.