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People love using mutants of marvel as a analogy for racism, but they don't realize how far it goes.

Slayven

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
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I was reading House of M and the "Thats my human name" hit me with a ton of bricks. Because I legit just realized humans are just like the majority of america. They see the hate and discrimination and they do nothing. I am not talking about the U-Men, Friends of Humanity, Upstarts, or the dozens of other mutant haters and hunters. But the motherfuckers that sit back and do and say nothing while they see sentinels being built or worse profit from it. "Ally" Tony Stark did build The O.N.E squad

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Reed Richards is raising a mutant and he is like "they never called my son the M-word" bullshit. JJJ oddly enough turns out to be the Tim Wise of Humans

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But for real folks should be ratioing over how much money is wasted on Sentials.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,144
I think that's where it becomes flawed, though. There is real reason for people to fear others who look exactly like us but have the potential to blow up a city with their mind. For all the crap about mutant detection systems, those would be absolutely needed if only for security reasons. Sentinels absolutely would not be a waste of money if they were effective. In the real world we would absolutely want every single super powered individual registered.

But there should be absolutely no reason why mutants are discriminated against and other super powered heroes aren't. I know we had this discussion before about the threat of the human race being supplanted by them, but I highly doubt many even care about that. It's just so weird that they hate humans but embrace aliens and creatures who pretended to be gods to our ancestors.
 
TheMango55

TheMango55

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Nov 1, 2017
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I really hate it when they just start throwing huge quantities adamantium out like candy on stuff that is clearly going to be destroyed in two pages.
 
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Slayven

Slayven

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mrmoose said:
I think that's where it becomes flawed, though. There is real reason for people to fear others who look exactly like us but have the potential to blow up a city with their mind. For all the crap about mutant detection systems, those would be absolutely needed if only for security reasons. Sentinels absolutely would not be a waste of money if they were effective. In the real world we would absolutely want every single super powered individual registered.

But there should be absolutely no reason why mutants are discriminated against and other super powered heroes aren't. I know we had this discussion before about the threat of the human race being supplanted by them, but I highly doubt many even care about that. It's just so weird that they hate humans but embrace aliens and creatures who pretended to be gods to our ancestors.
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Bigtory is never rational.
 
ShadowSwordmaster

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I think the writers and editors outside of X-Men office need open to the idea of having mutants, that is not the regular X-Men, to show those books. Marvel tends to stick the Mutants and the X-Men in their own corner either on purpose or by accident. Basically, Marvel wants to tell stories about Captain America, the Avengers, and the others in a way that sticks there own story, but then you add mutants into the world and all those people like the Avengers, FF, or whoever are either hypocrites, assholes, or even racist towards mutants, which makes those characters not as great as what Marvel wanted.
 
Z-Beat

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Oct 25, 2017
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It becomes apparent when you read an X-Men comic vs any other comic. Non X-Men comics deal so little with the rampant racism constantly bordering on (or surpassing) a 2nd holocaust that they may as well be separate universes.

And then Carol was yelling at Magneto like "why do you always keep bringing up Hitler?" There are a lot of reasons, Carol. A lot of really good reasons.
 

Deleted member 4461

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mrmoose said:
Well, it's not excusable but usually there's some rationale behind it, mainly that someone is different from them. That's why I'm saying there's no reason to trust non mutant superpowered individuals more than mutant super powered individuals.
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No, he had it right the first time! It's completely irrational, seeing some people as "the good ones" and hating others. Seeing one race as okay, but another is ruining the country.

How are Mexicans simultaneously super lazy but also taking American jobs? How are they working so much, yet draining our economy?

So on.
 
Jombie

Jombie

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Oct 27, 2017
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Can't wait for all the anti-SJW, keep politics out muh movies when they hit the MCU.
 
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Slayven

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
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Z-Beat said:
It becomes apparent when you read an X-Men comic vs any other comic. Non X-Men comics deal so little with the rampant racism constantly bordering on (or surpassing) a 2nd holocaust that they may as well be separate universes.

And then Carol was yelling at Magneto like "why do you always keep bringing up Hitler?" There are a lot of reasons, Carol. A lot of really good reasons.
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Carol is never right
 
Spinluck

Spinluck

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I like this idea that JJJ is an asshole on the outside but a good man on the inside.

Good Guy JJJ

Not surprised he is transparent as fuck about white privilege or human privilege in relation to mutants.

As far as his Spider-Man hatred goes. Everyone has their flaws, lmao.
 
KtotheRoc

KtotheRoc

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Spider-Man chooses to be a vigilante.

The X-Men didn't choose to be mutants.
 
manchego obfuscator

manchego obfuscator

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Slayven said:
Bigtory is never rational.
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It's not rational, sure, but we're supposed to believe that anti-mutant bigots are rational enough to draw a distinction between mutants and other superpowered people, even though there's literally no difference in their potential range of powers or how they manifest outwardly. That isn't how bigotry works in the real world, either.

I'm curious whether Hickman will attempt to address this in some way in HoX/PoX, and how Marvel Studios will tackle it down the road. As the latter isn't constrained by 56 years of continuity, and has the necessity of retroactively incorporating mutants into a long-running shared universe, maybe they'll actually figure it out.
 
Woozies

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Nov 1, 2017
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It's unfortunate that that shorthand Allegory also allows them to gloss over a lot of real racial issues that impact actual minorities.
 

mrmoose

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Nov 13, 2017
21,144
Vermillion said:
No, he had it right the first time! It's completely irrational, seeing some people as "the good ones" and hating others. Seeing one race as okay, but another is ruining the country.

How are Mexicans simultaneously super lazy but also taking American jobs? How are they working so much, yet draining our economy?

So on.
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The rationality of it is that the "bad ones" have darker skin, and "the good ones" look lighter. I'm not going to defend bigotry, but there's no way that people who hate and fear mutants in the Marvel Universe are going to justify loving other super heroes. Like how do people even know that Spider-man or whoever isn't a mutant, because they claim they were bit by a spider? Heck, I would claim that too if that's all it took.
 
Yasuke

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manchego obfuscator said:
It's not rational, sure, but we're supposed to believe that anti-mutant bigots are rational enough to draw a distinction between mutants and other superpowered people
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There are many instances of humans in the comics liking/loving a super-powered being until they realize they're a mutant, and vice versa.

It's not really just about the super powers. It's about what they represent. Spider-Man is the result of a freak accident, but little Sally next door is a reminder that my people's (humans) days are numbered. And there's nothing so frightening as a random child waking up one day and shooting lasers out of their eyes or some shit.

It's not wholly rational, but bigots never are, and you can totally see how the dichotomy works between mutants and other supers. Which is why the whole "mutants won't work in the MCU" take has always been bullshit.

mrmoose said:
Like how do people even know that Spider-man or whoever isn't a mutant, because they claim they were bit by a spider? Heck, I would claim that too if that's all it took.
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These are things that happen in the comics. People mistaking Spidey for a mutant and mutants trying to pass.
 
Sibersk Esto

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Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
 
Woozies

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Sibersk Esto said:
Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
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PixelatedDonut

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Oct 25, 2017
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I lOVE the X-Men,but "Thats my human name" I can't cringe harder. Like if you wanna draw similarities to the black struggle in America you can't have a super powerful supremacist faction.
 
CoolestSpot

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I don't know, I'm kind of mixed on them being allegorical to race versus general oppression.

As a white guy (oh FUCK I'm starting a sentence like this), it just seems weird to root the characters in a worry that makes sense? Like yeah, people with superpowers out of nowhere would create hysteria, and to the degree it does and trying to wipe them out as non-human doesn't make sense, but the fear does. Racism? That shit isn't logical. Like there is no reason for that shit in "rational" terms. It's just hating people cause they're different, not cause they can fucking teleport and nuke you, or reboot the universe, or train underground while learning ninja skills from a rat to come kick your ass.

Another thought that popped into my head, if Xavier is MLK Jr, and Magneto is X, who is Cyclops, whose the best of both of them?

Sibersk Esto said:
Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
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Put better then I could. I know the allegory is baked into their DNA and what they're about, but I don't know how to do it right with these elements at play. It seems like such a byproduct of their original time period, but what the fuck do I know. I kind of just want a writer to go all out with it and just open with cops shooting mutants and news casters calling them animals or some shit, have Xmen seeing on twitter old ladies calling them Muties, just drop all pretense of being subtle.
 
Volimar

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A lot of mutants don't really get much benefit from their mutation. So I think they justify their anti-mutant bigotry because the other superpowered people they see are either humans or villains whereas mutants might just be people you see at their jobs, selling hot dogs or telemarketing or trying to work in an office. So it's easier to sow the idea that mutants are taking over.
 
Elfotografoalocado

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Sibersk Esto said:
Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
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From outside the US and outside comic culture, this. It's weird as fuck.
 
manchego obfuscator

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Yasuke said:
There are many instances of humans in the comics liking/loving a super-powered being until they realize they're a mutant, and vice versa.

It's not really just about the super powers. It's about what they represent. Spider-Man is the result of a freak accident, but little Sally next door is a reminder that my people's (humans) days are numbered. And there's nothing so frightening as a random child waking up one day and shooting lasers out of their eyes or some shit.
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Yeah, that's the same rationale I've heard plenty of times before, and pointing to examples within the context of a fictional superhero universe doesn't really rebut my point that that's not how bigotry works in the real world. real-life bigots generally don't bother to carefully delineate distinctions between outwardly similar minority groups.

Sibersk Esto said:
Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
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One of the worst recent examples was during Secret Empire, where the plot is about a literal Nazi offshoot organization taking over the United States, but the only minority they use their power to persecute is a fictional one (Inhumans rather than mutants in that story, but the point stands) and racism against real-world minorities basically ceases to exist as far as the story is concerned.
 
Sibersk Esto

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Like, imagine if in a future MCU X-Men movie they try to pull that big impassioned speech about prejudice but in that tip toey "we're talking about being black/gay but no one in this scene is black or gay" way...

In the same universe that Black Panther exists and hoping it resonates the same.
 
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Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
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Oct 25, 2017
93,011
Sibersk Esto said:
Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
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I agree with you, that what made Cyke's time so good.
 
CoolestSpot

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Sibersk Esto said:
Like, imagine if in a future MCU X-Men movie they try to pull that big impassioned speech about prejudice but in that tip toey "we're talking about being black/gay but no one in this scene is black or gay" way...

In the same universe that Black Panther exists and hoping it resonates the same.
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After Spiderman FFH, I think they are just moving towards heroes being hated in general and using the failure in Infinity War to reinforce that, so by time X-Men rolls around society will be on a fuck supers path.
 
Woozies

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Like the reality is.

Ain't nothing a mutant is gonna say. Is ever going to hit, like Killmonger's last words at the end of BP.
 
Woozies

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Like imagine them pulling this shit today.

Would deserve a full 5 finger slap.

kittyprydenword6a.jpg
 
RedHoodedOwl

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You know Reed Richards is going to do something worse than what he did throughout Civil War in Hickman's X-Men.
 
ShadowSwordmaster

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Sibersk Esto said:
Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
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I agree with you here.
 
Kthulhu

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Sibersk Esto said:
Maybe unpopular opinion: The X-Men franchise should probably start to pivot away from being allegories to racial and sexual minorities since

A. It's no longer taboo to talk about both those things openly
B. The X-Men live in a facsimile of our world, which means actual racial and sexual minorities exist and experience prejudice

I don't know, it just feels weird watching the X-Men films and there's a scene where blond, blue-eyed Rebecca Romijn talks about her "slave name". It feels like co opting at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There was definitely LGBT coding in X-Men 2 with Bobby's parents.
 

Deleted member 4461

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mrmoose said:
The rationality of it is that the "bad ones" have darker skin, and "the good ones" look lighter. I'm not going to defend bigotry, but there's no way that people who hate and fear mutants in the Marvel Universe are going to justify loving other super heroes. Like how do people even know that Spider-man or whoever isn't a mutant, because they claim they were bit by a spider? Heck, I would claim that too if that's all it took.
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Mm, and now we get into "passing" in the LGBT community.

Some mutants can pass. Some choose to be straight up. Besides that, the reason for fear is that mutants represent a replacement of mankind (talked about in many X-Men books, including HoX). They fear being replaced, as some Americans fear being replaced by immigrants. Superheroes come from accidents - mutants are the next step of humanity.
 
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