• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Pennsylvania state senate Republicans refuse to seat certified election winner.

gardfish

gardfish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,627
Live Twitter thread:



Background: https://www.inquirer.com/politics/e...efuse-to-seat-nicole-ziccarelli-20210104.html

Setting the stage for a postelection showdown, Republicans who control the Pennsylvania Senate will refuse to seat a Democratic senator whose narrow win in November is being challenged in federal court, even as it has been certified by state officials.

Republican leaders confirmed Sen. Jim Brewster of Allegheny County will not be permitted to take the oath of office Tuesday when the legislature returns to launch a new two-year session.

The top Republican in the Senate, Jake Corman, said that he and his colleagues believe a decision in a legal challenge brought by Brewster's GOP opponent is necessary before the chamber can act.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Guess this is going to be the new Republican playbook going forward, huh?
 

Deleted member 86105

Banned
Nov 18, 2020
1,408
This is how Democracy starts to fail en masse. The one thing that holds our systems of Government together is voting. Once the will of the majority is no longer applied, we officially transition to authoritarianism.
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,314
So do they sue to force it? And will Republicans abide by that?

Or just have to wait out the legal challenge?
 
mjc

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,879
Great to see our foundations being torn down piece by piece.
 
Baccus

Baccus

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
5,307
What puzzles me is... Why aren't law people doing anything? We can foam our mouths in disarray (for good reason!) But surely there are legal teams or democratic bureucrats who should be concerned about this and reliving heaven and earth to fix it. Why is us the one grieving and not the career politicians?

If the democrats let this happen then we deserve whatever happens next, for we were really too weak to rule this world.
 

The Llama

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,026
This is not good, and to be clear I don't support it, but there's a lot of context which should be added. In short, the Democrat only won by ~100 ballots. However, his district spans two counties, and one county counted certain ballots which were deemed ineligible by the other county. (It has to do with whether the voter dated the mail-in voting envelope IIRC.) If both counties disqualified the ballots that one county deemed eligible but the other didn't, then the Republican would have won. (I believe if both counties counted them, then the Democrat would still win, and obviously with it split the way it is, the Democrat won.) The Republican has filed a federal lawsuit alleging an equal protection violation because the counties handled the ballots differently. (I forget if they ruled directly on this case, but the state Supreme Court has already said that the Democrat has won.)

It's much lower stakes (the Republicans will control the PA Senate either way), but it's essentially the closest we'll (hopefully...) ever get to Bush v. Gore 2.0.
 
neoak

neoak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,258
The Llama said:
This is not good, and to be clear I don't support it, but there's a lot of context which should be added. In short, the Democrat only won by ~100 ballots. However, his district spans two counties, and one county counted certain ballots which were deemed ineligible by the other county. (It has to do with whether the voter dated the mail-in voting envelope IIRC.) If both counties disqualified the ballots that one county deemed eligible but the other didn't, then the Republican would have won. (I believe if both counties counted them, then the Democrat would still win, and obviously with it split the way it is, the Democrat won.) The Republican has filed a federal lawsuit alleging an equal protection violation because the counties handled the ballots differently. (I forget if they ruled directly on this case, but the state Supreme Court has already said that the Democrat has won.)

It's much lower stakes (the Republicans will control the PA Senate either way), but it's essentially the closest we'll (hopefully...) ever get to Bush v. Gore 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Had it been a Republican, they would have seated it no problem.

But because it is from the other party, nope. Even though the PA Supreme Court already said the votes are valid.
 
SteveWinwood

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,673
USA USA USA
arrest them and remove anyone who supported this from their office

there should be no allowance for anything even close to this

the state supreme court said who won, the results are certified
 
TacomaSCDisaster

TacomaSCDisaster

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,969
I don't see how there are still people who think the US isn't only a failed state, but an empire in the early stages of total collapse with an overtly fascist political party dismantling it's institutions in order to obtain complete one-party power.
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,897
To a certain degree it's understandable, this case is remarkably unique as far as election law goes, but the fact that the majority party is using it specifically to fuck over the legislative minority and to impinge on the Democratic controlled executive branch's power demonstrates that it is beyond the pale. They're not doing it because of the lawsuit, the lawsuit is simply an excuse.
 
samred

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,584
Seattle, WA
The Llama said:
This is not good, and to be clear I don't support it, but there's a lot of context which should be added. In short, the Democrat only won by ~100 ballots. However, his district spans two counties, and one county counted certain ballots which were deemed ineligible by the other county. (It has to do with whether the voter dated the mail-in voting envelope IIRC.) If both counties disqualified the ballots that one county deemed eligible but the other didn't, then the Republican would have won. (I believe if both counties counted them, then the Democrat would still win, and obviously with it split the way it is, the Democrat won.) The Republican has filed a federal lawsuit alleging an equal protection violation because the counties handled the ballots differently. (I forget if they ruled directly on this case, but the state Supreme Court has already said that the Democrat has won.)

It's much lower stakes (the Republicans will control the PA Senate either way), but it's essentially the closest we'll (hopefully...) ever get to Bush v. Gore 2.0.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

THE VOTE WAS CERTIFIED. And the court challenge you cite was rejected. That is what we call the normal process, as opposed to a "stolen vote" in the dark. The senator should be seated and recognized, and an appeals process can undo that if courts decide it as such. This wretched, stinking bullshit of blocking the normal legal process because it would make them feel better to wait for a possible appeal..... it's third fucking world.

Imagine if Al Gore dug his heels in and fought the American legal process while we hemmed and hawed over hanging chads in 2000. There would've been blood in the streets. And yet. I can't even with this nation I live in sometimes.
 
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,968
This is the danger of fascists like Trump. They embolden others.
 
lunarworks

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,111
Toronto
For a bunch of people who vocally loathe communism they're working extra hard towards emulating the single-party rule that those communist parties they hate so much evolved into.
 
Mona

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
this is why the rocketing divisiveness over the last 30 years is a serious problem
 
slider

slider

Member
Nov 10, 2020
2,710
Maybe it's because they know their supporters are deplorables and more willing to tear shit up. Puts Dems on the back foot I'd imagine. And clearly they have no depths they won't sink to.
 
Chrome Hyena

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,768
Sounds like the Gov needs to throw some people in jail. im sure they are breaking some law. Or have the PA supreme court hold them in contempt and make them sit in jail for 30 days.
 
Sho_Nuff82

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,410
lunarworks said:
For a bunch of people who vocally loathe communism they're working extra hard towards emulating the single-party rule that those communist parties they hate so much evolved into.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Jesse Kelly (conservative online/TV personality) had a twitter thread yesterday justifying that fascism, not conservatism, has historically been the best antidote to communism and its lazy cousin, liberalism. He concluded by proudly stating that he was anti-communist. So that's where we're at with the GOP now. They will burn democracy to the ground before they let it (slowly) deliver progressive ideas.

 
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,968
Mona said:
this is why the rocketing divisiveness over the last 30 years is a serious problem
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There will always be disagreements. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

The issue is the GOP started to listen to the "never give. never surrender" rhetoric of Limbaugh, who directly influenced Gingrinch and Mitch McConnell. Trump is the final form of this.
 
livefromphilly

livefromphilly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
858
Philadelphia
The ballots in PA were absolutely stupid with the "write here, don't write here, date this, etc." It felt like a bunch of superfluous bullshit done with the express purpose of being able to throw out votes at a later time.
 
AlexBasch

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,307
Basically is this "Republicans, you lost the election, it's time to swear the new elected winner" and they're going" No, I don't think I will"?
 
asmith906

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,354
entremet said:
There will always be disagreements. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

The issue is the GOP started to listen to the "never give. never surrender" rhetoric of Limbaugh, who directly influenced Gingrinch and Mitch McConnell. Trump is the final form of this.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The reason they do it is because there are no consequences to them politically for doing it.

People are too stupid to see whose screwing them over as long as you blame the other side.

Just look at the $2000 Stimulus.

Democrats have been trying to pass legislation to give American people a second Stimulus for literally months.
Republicans didn't want to give People anything including UI.
Trump wanted a $2000 Stimulus. Democrats PASSED a $2k Stimulus. Republicans killed it yet somehow it's both sides fault that there is no 2k stimulus,

It's fucking stupid what people get away with.
 
TacomaSCDisaster

TacomaSCDisaster

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,969
I still know people who claim Republicans are often misunderstood people who just want lower taxes and smaller government, but then this shit happens:

www.huffpost.com

GOP Rep. Warns Of ‘Full-Scale Hot Conflict’ If Republicans Lose Senate

Texas Republican Chip Roy scaremongered about Georgia's runoff Senate elections on Tucker Carlson's Fox News show.
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com

They are beyond salvaging. Anyone who still backs the party at this point is a full-bore fascist.
 
Harbinger00

Harbinger00

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,752
So this is their plan for tomorrow then? Eject Pence from the procedings, Grassley refuses to announce Biden "until it's sure"? Great. Cool.
 
Arkanim94

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,109
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Jesse Kelly (conservative online/TV personality) had a twitter thread yesterday justifying that fascism, not conservatism, has historically been the best antidote to communism and its lazy cousin, liberalism. He concluded by proudly stating that he was anti-communist. So that's where we're at with the GOP now. They will burn democracy to the ground before they let it (slowly) deliver progressive ideas.

Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

strange way to come out as a fascist but ok.
(not speaking of you ofc).
 
Ripcord

Ripcord

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,773
asmith906 said:
People are too stupid to see whose screwing them over as long as you blame the other side.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That's really only half the story though. The other half is when the repubs fuck around and the people turn to Democrats to hold them responsible but they cant/won't.

There's been too many opportunities squandered by the dems when it comes to holding Republicans accountable to maintain the benefit of the doubt for lots of people.

So you see the anger directed in broad strokes. "Do nothing democrats" didn't just manifest from nowhere.
 
Futureman

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,400
The Republican lost by 69 votes and is asking a judge to throw out votes so she can be declared the winner.

Yep... guess this is status quo going forward for Republicans. They lose, endless court battles. GA special election is going to be a mess unless Dems win by 50k+ votes.
 
Digital Dinosaur

Digital Dinosaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,028
Rita Repulsa's Moon Palace
A term for what the mainstream GOP is adopting is "paper terrorism". Frivolous legal challenges to harass opponents and clog up the working of the system.

When used by fringe movements, it's seen as quackery. But the GOP is trying to normalize it so that people do not see it as frivolous, but simply unremarkable legal process. They're making paper terrorism their standard operating procedure.
 
Plax

Plax

Member
Nov 23, 2019
2,818
Futureman said:
The Republican lost by 69 votes and is asking a judge to throw out votes so she can be declared the winner.

Yep... guess this is status quo going forward for Republicans. They lose, endless court battles. GA special election is going to be a mess unless Dems win by 50k+ votes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Is this case still in the courts?
 
Lost Lemurian

Lost Lemurian

Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,295
Ripcord said:
That's really only half the story though. The other half is when the repubs fuck around and the people turn to Democrats to hold them responsible but they cant/won't.

There's been too many opportunities squandered by the dems when it comes to holding Republicans accountable to maintain the benefit of the doubt for lots of people.

So you see the anger directed in broad strokes. "Do nothing democrats" didn't just manifest from nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I have never heard anyone complain about Democrats not holding the GOP accountable except the online Left. People don't like that kind of thing from the Dems, which is why Biden ended up with the nomination and the presidency. He was the "compromise and bridge-building" guy.

The average swing voter isn't interested in punishing Republican officials because they vote for them half the time. The only time they're going to characterize the Dems as "lazy" is when it's coded racist language for "black".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.