[PCWorld] A year in, the Epic Games Store's fight against Steam has made PC gaming better for everyone.

Deleted member 2533 · Jan 1, 2020

Hot take: EGS is neither negatively or positively impacting developers to a significant degree.

Era's a pretty active board for "insider" info, and over the last year, there hasn't been some kind of crazy sea change when it comes to devs either going bankrupt or exploding into riches. Come at me all you want, but even if you know of a dev that was about to "go under" without EGS coming to their rescue, there are other devs out there that did go under that EGS did not rescue. We're talking case-by-case examples, not widespread industry trends. Gaming revenues are going up because of mobile, subscription services, and microtransactions, not storefronts.

I'd argue that Microsoft launching so many AAA games on gamepass like FH4 and Gears 5, as well as outright buying up devs is a much much bigger story. What's a crazier story, Hades being on EGS for a year and being sold at a normal price, or Microsoft buying inXile and making Wasteland 3 available via subscription? Which one is the real industry disrupter that people need to be seriously discussing the ramifications of?

Hot take 2: "Curation" is so bad. Not actual curation, like Steam is experimenting with in their Labs initiative, but that idea that a storefront can "curate" just by having a small number of games.

A couple of months after EGS launched, it was "so easy to browse" but even today, there is no way to search by price or discount -during a sale! That is useless. I have to scroll through a flat list of 227 games and make notes about how much stuff costs.

modoversus · Jan 1, 2020

fanboi said:
I have a hard time taking the outrage against EGS here in a serious manner when Valve was called out during the HK protestors where they low key supported the regime and that thread got extremely few response or anything here... while every thread on EGS massive amount of poster come in and shot on EGS.

I get what you mean. Valve criticism threads rarely have posts in them. But if a journalist criticzes Valve, you bet it will have lot's of posts with personal insults towards the journalist. Or if the CEO tweets, then a thread must be made and comparisions to Donald Trump happen, too.

eonden · Jan 1, 2020

modoversus said:
I get what you mean. Valve criticism threads rarely have posts in them. But if a journalist criticzes Valve, you bet it will have lot's of posts with personal insults towards the journalist. Or if the CEO tweets, then a thread must be made and comparisions to Donald Trump happen, too.

Or if a topic has good news about Valve or amazing new features it barely gets to 2 pages.

Dark1x · Jan 1, 2020

AJ_Wings said:
It honestly seems that outrage clicks are what's driving these vapid and non-sensical takes. From Kotaku to PCgamer.

Despite being repeatedly corrected on misinformation and outright lies, they'll just conveniently ignore and continue to spew utter nonsense. Hope the ad revenue was worth the perpetuation of stupidity.

It's awful isn't it? This is a serious issue. Nothing bothers me more than working hard to create something that I care deeply about only to watch it fail to pull in views while this kind of nonsense does great numbers. Not sure this is a solvable problem. Clearly a larger number of readers/viewers want this kind of stuff.

modoversus · Jan 1, 2020

Siresly said:
No one has a problem with the positive aspects of the Epic Games Store. If EGS has purely been good for you, then that's good for you.

To an extent it's ok to be ignorant about something, but a year later coming into a thread about something you don't seem to care about, and clearly haven't cared to inform yourself about, just to dismiss and mock people who are negatively impacted by it, is incomprehensible to me.

The "I don't know/care about the negative aspects, fuck the people impacted by them, I got mine" argument is an extremely bad and tired argument.

EGS exclusive games have a tendency to become more expensive, is one thing that people continue to ignore so they can for some reason shit on us who have a problem with EGS. Like, if you don't think losing money matters then please send me some.

I will say that EGS has gotten better in regards to pricing. But whether driven by Epic or publishers, EGS feels much more in control of pricing. EGS is more restrictive in regards to where EGS keys can be distributed, and I have no idea what their various exclusivity contracts dictate. Control isn't available on GMG for instance. Is that a 505 or Epic decision? Who knows? But it doesn't really matter, the end result does.

It's more or less on a case by case basis, and I can only speak for my own region, but if a full priced game is EGS exclusive, it could be €60 until there's a sale, up to 30% more than I'd might otherwise be asked to pay for a non-EGS key. Availability in one of the like three third party stores EGS works with, is not certain, and if it is, the discount you typically get in a store like GMG might not exist, or it might be lower than it would've been for a non-EGS key, which seems likely due to the profit margin for stores being significantly lower for EGS keys. 30% is generally the standard revenue share, it's 12% with EGS.

GMG has to be losing money on EGS keys if their discount cuts too deep. Don't know how that's working out for them. Third party stores getting pushed out of business or becoming unable to offer savings to customers is of some concern, and something I care about because that's how I can afford games. If that stops being an option, I'll either buy less games or I'll go to keyshops. Doesn't seem like a great thing for developers.

But I suppose we're to trust that Epic knows what they're doing. It's good for us and developers, they say. Why wouldn't you trust a company with the expertise and foresight to launch a store without a cart and that triggered fraud detection if people made too many purchases during a sale? That made a roadmap public only to have multiple features pushed back until they eventually took the roadmap down? And whatever else I may have forgotten.

Like I said, I sense that things have improved. I'm not exactly keeping track of all the EGS games, but I know Control was at a decent price during the recent sale, granted it reached that level much later than it probably would've otherwise. EGS is still new, we don't really know exactly how things will unfold, and I'm not investing anything in this platform until I feel I can trust I won't get screwed.

One thing I might relent on though is my decision to not register an account at all. I might perhaps do that if there's a free game I think I'd care to play.

Control is about 9 USD in my region with the christmas sale cupon. So my conclusion that EGS has benefited me, has benefited the devs and publishers who get paid by EGS still applies. I don't see "the devs and publishers get paid" as a "fuck you got mine".

EloKa · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Id rather the 50 some free games I have over a shopping cart, but I guess that will be nice when it comes.

Your last 6 posts or so in this topic were "I got free games, so its better for everyone". Did you realize that you aren't "everyone" as in "better for everyone"?
Or how come that you repeat the same post over and over and over and over and over again?

Absolute · Jan 1, 2020

EloKa said:
Your last 6 posts or so in this topic were "I got free games, so its better for everyone". Did you realize that you aren't "everyone"?
Or how come that you repeat the same "argument" over and over again?

Pretty obvious why.

modoversus · Jan 1, 2020

Dr.Acula said:
Hot take: EGS is neither negatively or positively impacting developers to a significant degree.

Era's a pretty active board for "insider" info, and over the last year, there hasn't been some kind of crazy sea change when it comes to devs either going bankrupt or exploding into riches. Come at me all you want, but even if you know of a dev that was about to "go under" without EGS coming to their rescue, there are other devs out there that did go under that EGS did not rescue. We're talking case-by-case examples, not widespread industry trends. Gaming revenues are going up because of mobile, subscription services, and microtransactions, not storefronts.

I'd argue that Microsoft launching so many AAA games on gamepass like FH4 and Gears 5, as well as outright buying up devs is a much much bigger story. What's a crazier story, Hades being on EGS for a year and being sold at a normal price, or Microsoft buying inXile and making Wasteland 3 available via subscription? Which one is the real industry disrupter that people need to be seriously discussing the ramifications of?

Hot take 2: "Curation" is so bad. Not actual curation, like Steam is experimenting with in their Labs initiative, but that idea that a storefront can "curate" just by having a small number of games.

A couple of months after EGS launched, it was "so easy to browse" but even today, there is no way to search by price or discount -during a sale! That is useless. I have to scroll through a flat list of 227 games and make notes about how much stuff costs.

I agree with all your points. Both Epic and Valve do help developers in some other ways (such as Epic's recent donations to open source software, or other very significant various tech advancements from Valve), but at the end EGS is picking and choosing who to help directly to assist their own goals.

Nzyme32 · Jan 1, 2020

Dark1x said:
It's awful isn't it? This is a serious issue. Nothing bothers me more than working hard to create something that I care deeply about only to watch it fail to pull in views while this kind of nonsense does great numbers. Not sure this is a solvable problem. Clearly a larger number of readers/viewers want this kind of stuff.

Sadly, that's the truth of it, and this thread is a picture perfect example of why such "articles" ie inflammatory clickbait, are successful and published all the more frequently.
Gaming "news" and forum / community behaviour is highly driven by this polarised team mentality, often happy to bask in being devoid of fact, because they often don't really care about the topic and are guided purely to agitate "opposition".
Yet the well researched and effort filled work is not nearly as engaged with unless it also can be used in some sort of inflammatory manner.

This kind of culture sucks.

karnage10 · Jan 1, 2020

Mobyduck said:
I guess.

Agree to disagree? Like I said, I don't want to discuss this, not here, not now. Everything that could've been said has already been said. I agree with some things, I disagree with others.

IMO you can not "agree to disagree" when your argument is based on an attack. EGS for the costumer is a really bad experience, specially when you are a PC gamer. It increases prices, HEAVILY decreases features, completely avoids competition.

To reach an "agree to disagree", i'd have to say something like "look EGS is really bad for me but thats ok because EGS gives more money to publishers/developers". This makes 0 sense for a costumer perspective. From a costumer point of view EGS is destroying our rights to give more money to publishers/developers. They also made a clearcut statement that have very little interest in improving EGS at steam's pace (maybe because their cut is too low?); shown by removing their own posted roadmap.

In my opinion what you are doing is being mean. You have a store that doesn't affect you and you choose to support it despite knowing it is bad for thousands if not millions of other users you still choose to vilify those that are standing up to their rights.

You do you, but you can't be part of a community you are actively harming.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

EloKa said:
Your last 6 posts or so in this topic were "I got free games, so its better for everyone". Did you realize that you aren't "everyone" as in "better for everyone"?
Or how come that you repeat the same post over and over and over and over and over again?

Idk now how free games isn't better for everyone

Absolute said:
Pretty obvious why.

Very much so, I love free games!

jandg · Jan 1, 2020

Dark1x said:
It's awful isn't it? This is a serious issue. Nothing bothers me more than working hard to create something that I care deeply about only to watch it fail to pull in views while this kind of nonsense does great numbers. Not sure this is a solvable problem. Clearly a larger number of readers/viewers want this kind of stuff.

Well, you're a bit of an insider yourself aren't you?

Don't you think that these articles are actually driven directly from Epic for promoting their platform? It makes sense they're feeding this information and pay for it.

Metroidvania · Jan 1, 2020

modoversus said:
I agree with all your points. Both Epic and Valve do help developers in some other ways (such as Epic's recent donations to open source software, or other very significant various tech advancements from Valve), but at the end EGS is picking and choosing who to help directly to assist their own goals.

Dr.Acula said:
Hot take 2: "Curation" is so bad. Not actual curation, like Steam is experimenting with in their Labs initiative, but that idea that a storefront can "curate" just by having a small number of games.

A couple of months after EGS launched, it was "so easy to browse" but even today, there is no way to search by price or discount -during a sale! That is useless. I have to scroll through a flat list of 227 games and make notes about how much stuff costs.

Which is amusing, considering that 'limited selection via curation' is one of the things people blasted valve for doing similar things back in the day when steam was semi-closed off.

Admittedly, Epic's storefront has grown leaps and bounds in terms of quantity, but the storefront hasn't grown alongside of it to make things better for me as a consumer.

Aside from deep discounts(which don't usually happen in NA territories - at least, compared to other regions), or exclusives (which, to be fair, definitely motivate some), I'm not sure what their long-term strategy is in terms of what they end up doing if (when) the fortnite bux dry up.

What is their strategy - keep doing exclusives and hope they keep (or start) coming out ahead sales-wise?

Or keep doing free giveaways, and hope that generates enough goodwill to keep people coming back to the ecosystem to buy games for closer to retail price if(when) the free games eventually stop?

jandg · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Idk now how free games isn't better for everyone
Very much so, I love free games!

Because everything else about EGS is horse shit and that is definitely not better for everyone?

Deleted member 10629 · Jan 1, 2020

MattEnth said:
I'm not arguing about trickle-down economics.

I'm arguing that the money represented by the 18% delta between Valve's cut and Epic's cut is better with the developers than the storefronts.

For every $60 you spend on video games, would you rather give...

$10.80 to Valve

OR

$10.80 to the game developers?

That's the choice you're making when you chose your storefront.

I think the latter is better for the industry.

And I think it's good that Epic has created that choice, even if it imposed a switching cost burden on consumers. Exclusives are the only way they can overcome the switching costs that prevents consumers from considering alternative platforms.

Nice false dichotomy you have going on here.

eonden · Jan 1, 2020

jandg said:
Well, you're a bit of an insider yourself aren't you?

Don't you think that these articles are actually driven directly from Epic for promoting their platform? It makes sense they're feeding this information and pay for it.

Nah, it is mostly because most of the journalists are closer to devs than customers and do not use most of the customer facing tools that Steam has, and anything that can help them is put over anything else.

There is also a component of most gaming media not understanding the PC marketplace and being mostly focused on console (or console like experiences), so the concept of multiple stores selling Steam keys without Steam getting money, or getting cheaper games that way isnt as known.

There is also the part of Valve being quite... bad at talking with the press while Epic isnt which creates an inherent bias without even them realizing it. That makes it so that Steam is the bad monopoly that needs to be brought down in their eyes.

Metroidvania said:
Which is amusing, considering that 'limited selection via curation' is one of the things people blasted valve for doing similar things back in the day when steam was semi-closed off.

Admittedly, Epic's storefront has grown leaps and bounds in terms of quantity, but the storefront hasn't grown alongside of it to make things better for me as a consumer.

Aside from deep discounts(which don't usually happen in NA territories - at least, compared to other regions), or exclusives (which, to be fair, definitely motivate some), I'm not sure what their long-term strategy is in terms of what they end up doing if (when) the fortnite bux dry up.

I will also say this about deep discounts. Most of their regional pricing comes from the fact that the devs are still not the ones having 100% control of the price, making it so that unless the publisher sees it, they get to keep the correct regional pricing which isnt the case in Steam.
You can easily see that with Jedi Fallen Order, where the regional pricing there is much better than in Steam.

Also yeah, their UI is shit and having manual curation scales bad with more games.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

jandg said:
Because everything else about EGS is horse shit and that is definitely not better for everyone?

Well I know you don't want me to talk about free games anymore, but that is a driving factor on why it is great for a lot of people.
You also have to remember, that you aren't everyone.

The positives, for me, largely outweigh the negatives. And while I understand some people may not like EGS as much as other stores / launchers, I don't understand how some people can be so hostile towards it, and people that like it.

There are people like me, people like you, and people that feel differently than us. Its ok to talk about it :)

Sean Mirrsen · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Idk now how free games isn't better for everyone

Well for starters, the games that used to be given away for free, will now hardly see any sales anywhere else - they've been devalued, the people that really wanted them got them for free, and the rest will wait for even steeper sales than usual.

And the devaluing continues on a greater scale, like why would someone who gets free games on EGS buy the smaller games at all? Not even on EGS, just in general? A consistent offering of free games creates the expectation of more free games, and sales numbers start creeping down. I hardly ever buy games full price anymore, because I know I'll have a chance to snag something I like on a discount eventually - Steam has created the expectation of eventual reduced price. EGS does one better, but with a worse outcome - if you expect to be given games for free, you start buying less games.

The only thing that really works to dampen the damage EGS is doing, is the sheer fact that a lot of people are so reluctant to use EGS in the first place. It's like a big, acrid-smelling rusty barrel of corrosive waste, that has some tasty and mostly safe to eat mushrooms sprouting around it. The mushrooms are nice, if you're a mushroom-loving sort of person, but there's really no need to stay around the barrel and wait until more mushrooms pop up, and the whole thing is not particularly safe to have around because there's no telling what the fumes are doing to the environment.

elyetis · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Idk now how free games isn't better for everyone

Thanks god you were there to make us realize the only thing EGS changed in the PC games landscape was an increase in the number of free game available.

jandg · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Well I know you don't want me to talk about free games anymore, but that is a driving factor on why it is great for a lot of people.
You also have to remember, that you aren't everyone.

The positives, for me, largely outweigh the negatives. And while I understand some people may not like EGS as much as other stores / launchers, I don't understand how some people can be so hostile towards it, and people that like it.

There are people like me, people like you, and people that feel differently than us. Its ok to talk about it :)

Don't try pushing this back to me. You were the one who's clearly pointing at everyone like it's some kind of universal truth.

Aselith · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Id rather the 50 some free games I have over a shopping cart, but I guess that will be nice when it comes.

Like I said, free games are great. But, when you think about change, you think about sustainability. Free stuff is not a sustainable business practice, it's marketing. In the long term, I think EGS has a place but I'm not sure exactly where other than as an also ran to Steam. GOG found a place as a curator of old stuff and I think that does well for them. Itch.io and Humble have a place as an indie platform.

Does anyone other than a minority stay on EGS past the free stuff period when it inevitably ends? I just don't see what value they add from a consumer perspective that will make them a long term powerhouse to pull in business that they aren't literally buying. I feel like they're the next Origin. There but why?

For developers, they've so far done a really good job of pushing Steam to increase margins for developers so maybe that's their legacy?

spam musubi · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Well I know you don't want me to talk about free games anymore, but that is a driving factor on why it is great for a lot of people.
You also have to remember, that you aren't everyone.

The positives, for me, largely outweigh the negatives. And while I understand some people may not like EGS as much as other stores / launchers, I don't understand how some people can be so hostile towards it, and people that like it.

There are people like me, people like you, and people that feel differently than us. Its ok to talk about it :)

"I like free games I don't care what anyone else thinks" isn't talking about it. You're just saying the same thing over and over and not engaging with any arguments. That's just derailing and borderline trolling.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

spam musubi said:
"I like free games I don't care what anyone else thinks" isn't talking about it. You're just saying the same thing over and over and not engaging with any arguments. That's just derailing and borderline trolling.

I don't think my take on the matter is trolling. I think its my take.

karnage10 · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Well I know you don't want me to talk about free games anymore, but that is a driving factor on why it is great for a lot of people.
You also have to remember, that you aren't everyone.

The positives, for me, largely outweigh the negatives. And while I understand some people may not like EGS as much as other stores / launchers, I don't understand how some people can be so hostile towards it, and people that like it.

There are people like me, people like you, and people that feel differently than us. Its ok to talk about it :)

I can't even use the free games because EGS doesn't have a BPM to use on my PC. If i am supposed to use my KB&M in a monitor how come i can't stream from my gaming computer to work PC so that i can use monitor?

AM I supposed to install dozens of new programs so that EGS gets feature parity with steam?

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

Aselith said:
Like I said, free games are great. But, when you think about change, you think about sustainability. Free stuff is not a sustainable business practice, it's marketing. In the long term, I think EGS has a place but I'm not sure exactly where other than as an also ran to Steam. GOG found a place as a curator of old stuff and I think that does well for them. Itch.io and Humble have a place as an indie platform.

Does anyone other than a minority stay on EGS past the free stuff period when it inevitably ends? I just don't see what value they add from a consumer perspective that will make them a long term powerhouse to pull in business that they aren't literally buying. I feel like they're the next Origin. There but why?

For developers, they've so far done a really good job of pushing Steam to increase margins for developers so maybe that's their legacy?

I don't know if people will still care about EGS after the free stuff ends, but giving away all of those games will probably keep people using EGS for quite awhile. Plus Fortnite still seems pretty big. So for a lot, its probably the place to play FN, and the bunch of free games they got.

I don't really see what value any launcher creates tbh, outside of games. And that's why I think EGS is killing it right now.

Dark1x · Jan 1, 2020

jandg said:
Well, you're a bit of an insider yourself aren't you?

Don't you think that these articles are actually driven directly from Epic for promoting their platform? It makes sense they're feeding this information and pay for it.

I have no idea about that. We never ever ever have run into that sort of situation, though, but I don't know how things play out elsewhere.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

jandg said:
Don't try pushing this back to me. You were the one who's clearly pointing at everyone like it's some kind of universal truth.

Im not saying there is a universal truth. But it is a point, that you aren't everyone either. Plenty of people seem happy with the EGS.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

elyetis said:
Thanks god you were there to make us realize the only thing EGS changed in the PC games landscape was an increase in the number of free game available.

I think that will do for a lot of people. People that arent expecting every store to change the PC gaming landscape, but people who are just excited to play a bunch of free games. I happen to be one of those people. You clearly have higher expectations. Thats fine too.

Aselith · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
I don't know if people will still care about EGS after the free stuff ends, but giving away all of those games will probably keep people using EGS for quite awhile. Plus Fortnite still seems pretty big. So for a lot, its probably the place to play FN, and the bunch of free games they got.

I don't really see what value any launcher creates tbh, outside of games. And that's why I think EGS is killing it right now.

That's why Steam has been a powerhouse thought, right? They are creating add on value in their launcher via weird initiatives like the Marketplace, Steam sales (not just the actual sale but gamifying it and making it a community thing), Workshop, Steam Cards (I still make a killing from selling those for games) and stuff like that. They've largely slacked off on that kind of stuff because their inertia in the market is so high but Valve did some WEIRD shit with the platform that really changed the game at the time.

Competitors have failed imo because they just make a barebones launcher and expect that it will appeal to people because videogames. You have to offer something more and figuring that out is integral to success.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

Sean Mirrsen said:
Well for starters, the games that used to be given away for free, will now hardly see any sales anywhere else - they've been devalued, the people that really wanted them got them for free, and the rest will wait for even steeper sales than usual.

And the devaluing continues on a greater scale, like why would someone who gets free games on EGS buy the smaller games at all? Not even on EGS, just in general? A consistent offering of free games creates the expectation of more free games, and sales numbers start creeping down. I hardly ever buy games full price anymore, because I know I'll have a chance to snag something I like on a discount eventually - Steam has created the expectation of eventual reduced price. EGS does one better, but with a worse outcome - if you expect to be given games for free, you start buying less games.

The only thing that really works to dampen the damage EGS is doing, is the sheer fact that a lot of people are so reluctant to use EGS in the first place. It's like a big, acrid-smelling rusty barrel of corrosive waste, that has some tasty and mostly safe to eat mushrooms sprouting around it. The mushrooms are nice, if you're a mushroom-loving sort of person, but there's really no need to stay around the barrel and wait until more mushrooms pop up, and the whole thing is not particularly safe to have around because there's no telling what the fumes are doing to the environment.

I guess maybe it could devalue the games, but how many sales do you think these games are still getting? Most of them are older, indie titles.
On the flip side, and in my case, it also could get these games out to people that probably never woluld have bought them....and introduce sales into future titles. I know there are a few games ill be picking up sequels too now (if made) that i never would have considered before.

Will that, and whatever Epic payed them outweigh current sales? I dont know.

AlexFlame116 · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Id rather the 50 some free games I have over a shopping cart, but I guess that will be nice when it comes.

Why in the world should it have to be a choice between the two? Epic could easily work hard on implementing a shopping cart, a basic feature found in almost all stores, AND give people their beloved free games.

Why is this whole discussion suddenly answered by free games? Free games should be a bonus, not a replacement for basic features.

elyetis · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
I think that will do for a lot of people. People that arent expecting every store to change the PC gaming landscape, but people who are just excited to play a bunch of free games. I happen to be one of those people. You clearly have higher expectations. Thats fine too.

My expectation really aren't very high, like say not seeing the price of games go from 40 to 60€.

Ploid 6.0 · Jan 1, 2020

Dark1x said:
It's awful isn't it? This is a serious issue. Nothing bothers me more than working hard to create something that I care deeply about only to watch it fail to pull in views while this kind of nonsense does great numbers. Not sure this is a solvable problem. Clearly a larger number of readers/viewers want this kind of stuff.

Sports pull more views than important documentaries, it doesn't mean documentaries should try to make some kind of rivalry situation to get sports people interested. It could work, but it could easily go wrong (Shark Week, Vikings on the History Channel, Monster Garage on Discovery Channel, Kate + 8 on TLC. R.I.P. TLC, aka The Learning Channel).

Some youtubers made friendly competitions to get more subs like MKBHD vs Linus Tech Tips, who can get to 10mil first. The punishment for losing was making a video of the redesign of Linus' office to a slick Mac styled room with a matte black wall... Win Win. Scrap Yard Wars, incorporating computer building and deal finding with a TLC like show (Junk Yard Wars). Gamers Nexus, and Jayztwocents with overclocking when RTX came out was also something that seemed to try to appeal to the rivalry/drama (clickbaity) nature of viewers. Every now and then Linus would have Gamers Nexus' mod mat in their videos maybe even mentioning how horrible it is in a friendly nature.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

Aselith said:
That's why Steam has been a powerhouse thought, right? They are creating add on value in their launcher via weird initiatives like the Marketplace, Steam sales (not just the actual sale but gamifying it and making it a community thing), Workshop, Steam Cards (I still make a killing from selling those for games) and stuff like that. They've largely slacked off on that kind of stuff because their inertia in the market is so high but Valve did some WEIRD shit with the platform that really changed the game at the time.

Competitors have failed imo because they just make a barebones launcher and expect that it will appeal to people because videogames. You have to offer something more and figuring that out is integral to success.

Ive had steam since....I think 2008? I don't think ive ever used any of the things you mentioned, and probably never will. Im not trying to say those features don't have value...because to you and many others they do . But for the people like me ( and there seems to be quite a few like me , as well) free games will trump features I will never use. Im not saying everyone should agree me with I understand why they don't.

Im sure the EGS will continue to get updated, maybe not at the pace that some of you guys would like. And that's fine. But I don't think that would change the opinions about EGS, even for a lot of people that don't like it.

I mean, I just got the new YL game ...im happy as hell.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

elyetis said:
My expectation really aren't very high, like say not seeing the price of games go from 40 to 60€.

Maybe if I experienced that I would have harsher feelings about it...or I would just buy the game on Steam, or wherever else. But I haven't seen that.

Ploid 6.0 · Jan 1, 2020

jandg said:
Because everything else about EGS is horse shit and that is definitely not better for everyone?

I like how a ton of EGS' games are drm free. Twitch Prime games as well. Twitch Prime games are basically install and forget since I don't think any of it's games need the launcher after you have it.

Aselith · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Ive had steam since....I think 2008? I don't think ive ever used any of the things you mentioned, and probably never will. Im not trying to say those features don't have value...because to you and many others they do . But for the people like me ( and there seems to be quite a few like me , as well) free games will trump features I will never use. Im not saying everyone should agree me with I understand why they don't.

Im sure the EGS will continue to get updated, maybe not at the pace that some of you guys would like. And that's fine. But I don't think that would change the opinions about EGS, even for a lot of people that don't like it.

I mean, I just got the new YL game ...im happy as hell.

Ok, I think we're agreeing then that you won't be there past the free game phase. You'll go back to play the games that you have but will go where the sales/free games/friends are. I think one strength of Steam for folks such as yourself is their other weird feature that they just give developers codes to give away. So, even though Valve is not directly giving you games, you are going to be pushed there by all of the cottage industry stuff built around giving you free Steam codes.

To keep you, Epic would have to implement that feature imo.

Ploid 6.0 · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Ive had steam since....I think 2008? I don't think ive ever used any of the things you mentioned, and probably never will. Im not trying to say those features don't have value...because to you and many others they do . But for the people like me ( and there seems to be quite a few like me , as well) free games will trump features I will never use. Im not saying everyone should agree me with I understand why they don't.

Im sure the EGS will continue to get updated, maybe not at the pace that some of you guys would like. And that's fine. But I don't think that would change the opinions about EGS, even for a lot of people that don't like it.

I mean, I just got the new YL game ...im happy as hell.

I'm one like you. The main thing I use Steam for is the Steam Controller and Steam Input, but I can use that on any game and if I couldn't there's DS4 Windows and other game profilers which are also awesome. There's a way to get Steam Controller to work without steam but that app is still being worked on. The Linux version is better.

I play and get games no matter where I can, just like I shop for items in different stores. I'm lucky in that I don't care much for trophies or communities (friend lists, wish lists are useless to me, etc.). I actually try to hide from letting people know I'm playing games, what I play, and what games I have. I wish I could prevent companies from knowing this info too.

Madjoki · Jan 1, 2020

AlexFlame116 said:
Why in the world should it have to be a choice between the two? Epic could easily work hard on implementing a shopping cart, a basic feature found in almost all stores, AND give people their beloved free games.

Fun Fact: Epic store actually does have shopping cart, it's just not "enabled".
I actually managed to bypass and did try it for science with free products.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

Aselith said:
Ok, I think we're agreeing then that you won't be there past the free game phase. You'll go back to play the games that you have but will go where the sales/free games/friends are. I think one strength of Steam for folks such as yourself is their other weird feature that they just give developers codes to give away. So, even though Valve is not directly giving you games, you are going to be pushed there by all of the cottage industry stuff built around giving you free Steam codes.

To keep you, Epic would have to implement that feature imo.

I don't think, any of the stores keep me.
I have like....80 some games on steam I think? I have games on Origin, GamePass, Ubisoft, Battle.net, and EGS.

The only reason I open any of those is to play games. So sure, once the free stuff goes away ill only open EGS to play the games. But that's why I do for all of the launchers...open them to buy / play games.

If Steam, or wherever else started giving free games all the time, I absolutely would use those more.

AlexFlame116 · Jan 1, 2020

Madjoki said:
Fun Fact: Epic store actually does have shopping cart, it's just not "enabled".
I actually managed to bypass and did try it for science with free products.

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

Ploid 6.0 said:
I'm one like you. The main thing I use Steam for is the Steam Controller and Steam Input, but I can use that on any game and if I couldn't there's DS4 Windows and other game profilers which are also awesome. There's a way to get Steam Controller to work without steam but that app is still being worked on. The Linux version is better.

I play and get games no matter where I can, just like I shop for items in different stores. I'm lucky in that I don't care much for trophies or communities (friend lists, wish lists are useless to me, etc.). I actually try to hide from letting people know I'm playing games, what I play, and what games I have. I wish I could prevent companies from knowing this info too.

I bought one of those steam controllers when they were 5 dollars. Im gonna have to set that up and give it a shot soon. But yeah, thats all any of the launchers are for me. A place to buy and play games. I use all of them.

EloKa · Jan 1, 2020

AlexFlame116 said:

Your questions may be answered if you take a look at the Unreal Engine Marketplace which exists since some years and compare it to the EGS

eonden · Jan 1, 2020

AlexFlame116 said:

It uses the same backend than the Unreal Engine Store, that does have those things.

EloKa said:
Your questions may be answered if you take a look at the Unreal Engine Marketplace which exists since some years and compare it to the EGS

And questions of how can they be so shit at UI and searching can also be solved by looking into it.

Ploid 6.0 · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
I bought one of those steam controllers when they were 5 dollars. Im gonna have to set that up and give it a shot soon. But yeah, thats all any of the launchers are for me. A place to buy and play games. I use all of them.

It's my favorite controller, and I now have a backup because of that deal. I hope a good accurate replacement comes before mine is beyond repair and I can no longer find replacement parts. It takes a while to get used to it though, there's a big learning curve.

elyetis · Jan 1, 2020

OldDirtyGamer said:
Maybe if I experienced that I would have harsher feelings about it...or I would just buy the game on Steam, or wherever else. But I haven't seen that.

Metro, Anno, that's when an exclusivity deal happened for a game already sold ( pre order ) on steam ( and other storefront selling keys ) that it happened. For other games which did not have preorder it's impossible to prove that the same kind of impact on pricing happened *for sure* anyone who buy PC game often enough know that finding better price than the MSRP at release date isn't a rarity, so it's unlikely to only have impacted those specific games. So if you truly wondered :

OldDirtyGamer said:
[...] I don't understand how some people can be so hostile towards it, and people that like it.

Now you know, it's akin to wondering why people don't like spending 50% more with the added bonus of getting an objectively inferior product ( even if the aspect on which it get inferior does not impact people equaly, no one argue that everyone likes each and every steam functionality ).
Then there is the savings people were doing with a functionnality like family share, same kind of result in case of exclusivity ( you either loose that saving, or loose in QoL if the alternative is sharing an Epic account ).
Then there is case of having already spent that money on a... kickstarter only for it to make that move too, leaving you either with the choice of getting that money back ( so you were only someone lending money at a 0% interest rate ) or now only getting the choice of having that inferior product functionality wise.

If what EGS brought to the PC gaming landscape was only the fact that it's a barebone alternative for the consumer which offer some decent sales and many free games, there would be 0 controversy surrounding that store. Yet that's exactly how things keep being portrayed by some in those topic, repeatedly.

Lashley · Jan 1, 2020

jandg said:
Also, is it just me or is this topic just pissing people off? What's the point?

It's the same every thread. Same troll posts, same arguments, same talking points.

Jamesac68 · Jan 1, 2020

Absolute said:
Could you quote everybody that is pledging undying loyalty or nah?

Sorry, just to clarify the point- Steam is the screwdriver getting undying loyalty, not EGS.

I get it, I like Steam and prefer to buy my games there over EGS just for convenience, but it's not a deal-breaker. That $10 coupon dropped Hades to $9.99, which tipped the balance firmly in EGS's favor. Watch Dogs 2, on the other hand, I'm holding off to snag on PS4-physical eventually at $15-$20 just because of the way I'll be playing it despite the EGS coupon working to cover the game and dropping it down to a super-affordable $5. The choice of storefront is about what works for my needs, and sometimes EGS is it while more often than not it won't be.

spam musubi · Jan 1, 2020

Jamesac68 said:
Sorry, just to clarify the point- Steam is the screwdriver getting undying loyalty, not EGS.

I get it, I like Steam and prefer to buy my games there over EGS just for convenience, but it's not a deal-breaker. That $10 coupon dropped Hades to $9.99, which tipped the balance firmly in EGS's favor. Watch Dogs 2, on the other hand, I'm holding off to snag on PS4-physical eventually at $15-$20 just because of the way I'll be playing it despite the EGS coupon working to cover the game and dropping it down to a super-affordable $5. The choice of storefront is about what works for my needs, and sometimes EGS is it while more often than not it won't be.

if the game was the same price on all storefronts, where would you buy it?

OldDirtyGamer · Jan 1, 2020

elyetis said:
Metro, Anno, that's when an exclusivity deal happened for a game already sold ( pre order ) on steam ( and other storefront selling keys ) that it happened. For other games which did not have preorder it's impossible to prove that the same kind of impact on pricing happened *for sure* anyone who buy PC game often enough know that finding better price than the MSRP at release date isn't a rarity, so it's unlikely to only have impacted those specific games. So if you truly wondered :
Now you know, it's akin to wondering why people don't like spending 50% more with the added bonus of getting an objectively inferior product ( even if the aspect on which it get inferior does not impact people equaly, no one argue that everyone likes each and every steam functionality ).
Then there is the savings people were doing with a functionnality like family share, same kind of result in case of exclusivity ( you either loose that saving, or loose in QoL if the alternative is sharing an Epic account ).
Then there is case of having already spent that money on a... kickstarter only for it to make that move too, leaving you either with the choice of getting that money back ( so you were only someone lending money at a 0% interest rate ) or now only getting the choice of having that inferior product functionality wise.

If what EGS brought to the PC gaming landscape was only the fact that it's a barebone alternative for the consumer which offer some decent sales and many free games, there would be 0 controversy surrounding that store. Yet that's exactly how things keep being portrayed by some in those topic, repeatedly.

Well that sucks that that happened to you, but im not sure why you would be hostile about it because it didn't happen for everyone. Metro was awesome btw.

[PCWorld] A year in, the Epic Games Store's fight against Steam has made PC gaming better for everyone.

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