It's like telling people who prefer using DSLRs for mundane things rather than their phones that they only care about the size of the sensor and not about the flexibility of changing lenses.
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PC vs Console discussions are too focused on power
- Thread starter RedSwirl
- Start date
You have to remember that these discussions are often colored by the type of arguments that are frequently used in console vs console threads. The experience between Playstation and Xbox is so similar in most aspects (hardware, OS, control method etc) that the only differentiators are (relatively minor) performance differences and exclusive games.
On the contrary, I'd argue that I spend too much gaming time on my PC doing things other than playing videogames.
I still love PCs, but sometimes I just want to jump into the polished, purpose-built interface of a console that works seamlessly with a controllee and play a fucking game without worrying about what settings to optimize.
Don't think I could live without either platform. Too much of one thing and I inevitably start craving the other one. If I absolutely and definitively had to choose only one platform however it'd be the PC.
I still love PCs, but sometimes I just want to jump into the polished, purpose-built interface of a console that works seamlessly with a controllee and play a fucking game without worrying about what settings to optimize.
Don't think I could live without either platform. Too much of one thing and I inevitably start craving the other one. If I absolutely and definitively had to choose only one platform however it'd be the PC.
This is a perfectly valid reason to stick with consoles (although the Pro / X mid-gen console upgrades are probably a wrench in this logic, to some degree). PC gaming is extremely expensive (£1200 for a 2080Ti! Really?!) but I still think the benefits are worth it, and more.
When people talk about "games look better on PC", there's the catch that it's understood as "on modern hardware". Even if not very powerful.
Your CPU is over SEVEN years old, a full year older than the base Xbox One. And a 1050ti is barely even a gaming GPU.
Yeah, you ain't going to play shit with that at this point. Arguably neither is the Xbox One when you take a look at framerates and image quality on 2019 games but that's another discussion.
Price is a very important matter. And PC is much more expensive upfront. But it's all about choosing the right time and the right components. It's not that different on console nowadays.
After all, you spent $500 for an Xbox One X, and next year it will be hopelessly obsolete.
I do not know how much you invested in your PC (clearly, you changed your GPU at least), but we're talking about an eight years+ time frame; during which the Xbox One, the Xbox One X and Scarlett will have been released.
That's a whooping $1500+ price tag for all of that (and excluding Xbox One S). Of course, you don't need them at release. But neither do you need to update your PC parts with top of the line components.
Yeah the 360 era was probably the only time I've really seen that happen to that extent but once the better multi core processors came out soon after it was short lived. I was honestly impressed by the 360 when it came out and i ended up getting one on launch day as I had to wait like 16 hours outside at best buy to get a premium one. Also, back then I think the Xbox 360 was losing like 126 dollars off each console or something and they don't do the loss leader stuff anymore like they used to. I wonder if anyone might try doing that this coming generation to get an edge at the start.
RedSwirl you know I'm allways there in the same threads saying exactly this like a broken record.
You can get a zen apu now (don't even buy a gpu) and run like every game in the history of the universe with a computer comparable to a ps4. And if i had to choose, id take and hat pc any day.
People are of course inclined to volunteer details about their $800 gpus. Ha. That can be misleading. I use modest components myself and so do many others. The potential to upgrade your graphics to this huge level is cool but i'm not very interested in that.
You can get a zen apu now (don't even buy a gpu) and run like every game in the history of the universe with a computer comparable to a ps4. And if i had to choose, id take and hat pc any day.
People are of course inclined to volunteer details about their $800 gpus. Ha. That can be misleading. I use modest components myself and so do many others. The potential to upgrade your graphics to this huge level is cool but i'm not very interested in that.
Make that 20+ years. I haven't "dicked around" to make anything run since Win 95/98. Now DOS games and loading sound drivers etc. that was another thing.
The argument that you have to tinker to get PC games running is such a dead meme in every way. I literally can't remember the last PC game I didn't just install and play.
PC gamers understand those QoL improvements. Is mainly why Big Picture exists, or why Xinput was accepted as an universal input protocol
Personally I don't really care anymore. I was somebody that was absolutely horrible at playing shooters with a controller, but I just got used to it. I always sit on the couch while playing. I'm doing very okay now and a controller plays much more comfortable. I've got paddles on my controller (Strike Pack) and shooters play fine for me.
The only thing that annoys me about the PC vs console debate is the "convenience" argument people make for consoles. Wtf is convenient about an unstable 30 fps? A little tinkering is a price I'm willing to pay for not having to deal with that shit.
I hope you're just playing dumb. The convenience argument has nothing to do with framerate. And not all games are unstable (most are actually pretty stable). Most console players don't notice it anyway.
PC is just to expensive. I'm in the UK and a decent graphics card will likely be dearer than next gen consoles. Also cost more to run as well though I've never been able to work out how much that is.
Games are no longer cheaper either to offset with Gamepass.
Games are no longer cheaper either to offset with Gamepass.
No it's not if you don't want it to be.
99% of gamers never bought a £1200 gpu.
I know. The convenience argument is usually about the amount of tinkering involved with a PC. I dont think you read my post the whole way through.
Exactly. I'm not made of money so I'm all about that mid-range. Something like the value proposition offered by the GTX 970 & 1070 in their release years was pretty good.
I did. My point is most people don't care about that kind of stuff. Most even don't know what it means.
Just because some people are ignorant about framerate, doesn't mean that it isn't hugely inconvenient for those that aren't.
He is right about the average consumer not caring about framerates. We are all enthusiasts here. We are NOT THE NORM.
The argument I'm pushing back against is one I hear from enthusiasts on this forum though. That consoles are more convenient than PC's. I'm saying this is bogus because what is actually "convenient" is entirely subjective.
As someone of the same age, I can understand that point of view. I don't have time or the will for that either. I feel a lot of people stare at their precious framerate counters too much and my suggestion is to just turn them off and enjoy the game. Especially if you use variable refresh rate tech then you aren't going to notice if the framerate dips here and there.
It's true that PC does make you work a bit more and isn't as straightforward experience even with things like Steam Big Picture etc. But it's not this huge ordeal some try to make it to be. You don't really need to do tweaking, overclocking and benchmarking on PC much these days. The new Ryzen 3000 series CPUs just don't overclock and it's best to let them boost according to their own algorithms. Likewise GPUs tend to have far less overclocking headroom making it a less useful endeavour. Configuring games can be as simple as selecting a preset, letting GeForce Experience configure it for you or using the settings the game might detect. If you really want to tinker with graphics then you can look up a guide on what are the most performance/visual effects relevant settings.
I avoid the PC threads cause I know its just going to make me long to invest in a new rig and I already have too many gaming systems as it is and too many friends on those systems.
And I agree with you. That is why I don't look down at console only gamers. I am in the middle of building a rig right now and that is the easy part lol.
Power was never the reason I came to prefer PC gaming. I rode out most of this generation with an old first gen i7 and a 660. This required locking some games to 30fps and dropping the resolution at times and I was fine with that.
I like the freedom and flexibility to do what I want on the platform and the near endless backwards compatibility. Steam in particular is more feature filled than any other platform and without any kind of monthly fee to access them. I get preferring consoles for convenience because I used to as well but to me most of PCs biggest issues with that got solved a long time ago. In particular the combination of gamepad standardisation and Steam input means that while I used to buy console games for joypad support alone, I don't have to do that anymore.
I like the freedom and flexibility to do what I want on the platform and the near endless backwards compatibility. Steam in particular is more feature filled than any other platform and without any kind of monthly fee to access them. I get preferring consoles for convenience because I used to as well but to me most of PCs biggest issues with that got solved a long time ago. In particular the combination of gamepad standardisation and Steam input means that while I used to buy console games for joypad support alone, I don't have to do that anymore.
I don't think it's true that the average consumer "doesn't care about framerates". There's a reason why Call of Duty is popular. Fast pace. And why is that ? Higher than 30fps framerate.
And yes OP. Sure, better visuals and framerates are good. But it's not the reason I got into PC.
Emulators, backward compatibility and more importantly forward compatibility, gamepad choice, options and such.
Some people might complain about tinkering. You can also not tinker. But you have the option to tinker for your experience. Something that isn't possible on consoles. When a game has a problem on consoles (and it happens too), you depend on the good will of the publisher. And sometimes, that good will never happens... or fairly late. When the same happens on PC, you can either solve it yourself or someone solved it already.
Emulators, backward compatibility and more importantly forward compatibility, gamepad choice, options and such.
Some people might complain about tinkering. You can also not tinker. But you have the option to tinker for your experience. Something that isn't possible on consoles. When a game has a problem on consoles (and it happens too), you depend on the good will of the publisher. And sometimes, that good will never happens... or fairly late. When the same happens on PC, you can either solve it yourself or someone solved it already.
For me there was a downside to it. Back when I only game on PC I used to spend way more time tinkering and modding games than actually playing them. It was like the tinkering IS the game and once I've managed to tame the ini files I felt like the game itself wasn't that interesting anymore.
I own both and do 95% of my gaming on PC. It's just my preferred platform as I have a beefy PC and I can customize the game as I want if I feel like it. Most of my friends are PC, though I must admit I rarely play MP games. I also have 2 controllers on PC and I play pretty much everything with a controller while lying on the bed, except first person games, so I have the best of both worlds.
On PS4 I play exclusives and when my gf wants to watch me play for some reason. She was glued to the screen when I beat the Last of Us and didn't let me continue playing unless she was present. She also uses the PS4 more than me as she likes playing some platformers which are stress free.
On PS4 I play exclusives and when my gf wants to watch me play for some reason. She was glued to the screen when I beat the Last of Us and didn't let me continue playing unless she was present. She also uses the PS4 more than me as she likes playing some platformers which are stress free.
Not this pc gamer, this is the first console generation since 1996 when I've not had a Nintendo console next to my pc. Not because I don't enjoy console games, but because I would only really play Splatoon on it and I can't justify paying over €300 for one game. I'm a huge Zelda fan but I know Breath of the Wild would annoy me greatly with the weapons constantly breaking - I cheat a lot in single-player games because of gaming mechanics like this. Such as in The Witcher 3 where I use a trainer to stop weapons from getting blunted and useless. I don't want to have to bother about some things that developers think I should. Can't use a trainer on a console, sadly. I would play it in an emulator but nothing I do can get it to run well on my system even with help from people in the old place and I stopped trying years ago (this was back when I shared an apartment with someone who owned a Switch and the game).
I also significantly prefer to game at my desk rather than lounging on a couch, sat up and focused. I was so glad that I was using DisplayPort on my monitor with speakers so I could use my Wii U with the HDMI port. Prior to this it sat downstairs connected to a receiver with a decent sound system - the monitor speakers were weedy but I appreciated being able to switch over to the Wii U and game at if there on my desk. My current monitor doesn't have speakers so I'd be forced to set any potential console I'd own to be downstairs in the living room and the very thought of having to go down there to game annoys me.
So I'm happy enough with my setup as is. I have so much gaming to get through on my pc that I really don't feel the lack of a console at all... I miss playing Splatoon online but that's it. Back when I had Nintendo home and portable consoles alongside my pc the percentage of pc to console games I was playing was increasing rapidly in favour of the former for the past ten years anyway.
I do think that the pc vs console debate focused far too much on power as the OP says and not on the other advantages either brings. Increased performance is great (especially on a 144Hz monitor with FreeSync) but power is still quite far down on the list of what's important to me in pc gaming over consoles.
And it's not just COD. Almost every popular multiplayer game is 60fps on consoles. That's not a coincidence.
I do not care about power or graphics really. I care about keeping my older games, lower game prices, sharing my library with friends easily, not paying for online play and being able to use my preferred controllers. I almost never have to ever tweak games and the vast majority of my favorite games comes to PC now (niche Japanese stuff, fighting games, Halo, etc) and run better to boot. All I really feel like I am missing out on is Nintendo's stuff, but I felt like an actively unwanted customer with Wii U, so I care a lot less than I would have years back.
There are very very few positives left for me with game consoles now. It is hilarious for me to imagine though, because I grew up seriously hating PC gaming.
That all said, I have not sworn off console gaming or anything. I am extremely interested in what Microsoft and Sony do next gen and am seriously excited to see the direction everyone goes in now that stuff like game pass is taking off. For now though I am mostly just going to stick with PC and retro consoles.
There are very very few positives left for me with game consoles now. It is hilarious for me to imagine though, because I grew up seriously hating PC gaming.
That all said, I have not sworn off console gaming or anything. I am extremely interested in what Microsoft and Sony do next gen and am seriously excited to see the direction everyone goes in now that stuff like game pass is taking off. For now though I am mostly just going to stick with PC and retro consoles.
I think PC Era typically does a great job job of conveying that options and control are the greatest features of PC.
Incidentally I was just arguing something similar (or at very least related) in another thread: anyone who's going to look at PC gaming just as a way to play console games at better performances is plainly and simply overlooking most of what makes it great.
It is more about type of games for me. When I stopped to be interested in competitive FPS and RTS, I didn't upgrade my PC to play.
When good indies are only on PC, I don't have to wait long to play them on PS4 or Switch. And I can't not play PS4 and Switch first party. So the choice is simple for me (and fuck Windows 10, yes).
When good indies are only on PC, I don't have to wait long to play them on PS4 or Switch. And I can't not play PS4 and Switch first party. So the choice is simple for me (and fuck Windows 10, yes).
playing shooters on a controller makes me feel like i'm trying to recover from a stroke so i'm pretty much stuck on PC forever
That's actually a popular excuse against PC gaming actually because it apparently means there are too many distractions and people can't resist turning on Netflix while playing.
I have a gaming PC, yet despite that I prefer not to use it for games. I built it several years ago with the intention of getting rid of my consoles, but it quickly became clear to me that there's just something about dedicated gaming hardware that I prefer. I'm perfectly fine resorting to my PC for everything else, however playing games on it is my only hangup.
I liken PC gaming to buying too many games at once. In my own experience, having a console and select physical games makes me appreciate the hobby more. But my appreciation for it completely plummets when it's on PC.
I suppose the PC just has this unique combination of accessibility and rock-bottom game prices that encourages me to treat the hobby as disposable. When playing on PC, if I encounter even a slight annoyance, I'll jump to another game, sometimes several in the span of an hour. But when I'm playing on PS4, I'm considerably more willing to deal with these annoyances and continue playing the same game for a longer period of time.
It sounds silly and probably is, but that's how I'd describe the psychology behind it for me.
I liken PC gaming to buying too many games at once. In my own experience, having a console and select physical games makes me appreciate the hobby more. But my appreciation for it completely plummets when it's on PC.
I suppose the PC just has this unique combination of accessibility and rock-bottom game prices that encourages me to treat the hobby as disposable. When playing on PC, if I encounter even a slight annoyance, I'll jump to another game, sometimes several in the span of an hour. But when I'm playing on PS4, I'm considerably more willing to deal with these annoyances and continue playing the same game for a longer period of time.
It sounds silly and probably is, but that's how I'd describe the psychology behind it for me.
The debate usually devolves into mudslinging when avid sections of each fanbase have very little to no experience or exposure to the other platform chime in. I would say that there are vastly more people on the side of Console only/limited PC experience vs PC only/limited Console experience. The PC side of the debate will tend to be more informed but can still be toxic.
Personally I am primarily PC due to framerate and control method. I also like having freedom to customize my experience. If I decide to buy a console game it is usually a first party exclusive and only after I have seen a Digital Foundry report on the game as i cannot take terrible performing games.
Personally I am primarily PC due to framerate and control method. I also like having freedom to customize my experience. If I decide to buy a console game it is usually a first party exclusive and only after I have seen a Digital Foundry report on the game as i cannot take terrible performing games.
The argument about convenience and not liking to tinker is always hilarious. You don't like tinkering/changing graphics settings for 1 minute or less, but you like waiting for 1 minute for every single loading screen...
OP
OP
My personal general laptop has a 960m which I'm told is basically a 750Ti. It runs anything that's not a AAA game perfectly fine, and some of those AAA games might still get performance better than say, the Switch version. Some people are willing to accept that level of performance on an $800 laptop. But gaming-wise I mostly use it for Doom, Quake, Mount & Blade, visual novels, stuff like Into the Breach, or random shit on itch.io. One of the reasons I especially prefer to buy lower-end games on PC is so I can have them installed on multiple systems for situations like this.
My previous GPU in my main PC was a 760 which I think is comparable to a 1050Ti. I was perfectly fine playing 400 hours of Witcher 3 at 1080p30 with settings probably around the same level as the console versions, and I bought the game on GOG which means I can do whatever I want with the digital download. On top of that I could immediately go back and max out all the games I'd bought from last gen at 60fps.
As far as playing new AAA games goes though, a PC CPU has a lifespan probably not too dissimilar from a console. Maybe a bit longer actually, since there are people still using overclocked i5-2500ks or something, but that's due to a unique situation with console CPUs right now.
I think PC gamers have been spoiled by years of being able to relatively easily get high framerates with games being optimized for consoles, or with chips like the Q6600, 8800GT, and a lot that's come since. We've forgotten the days of bleeding-edge games where we have to just deal with framerates in the 40's or whatever. Crysis 1 is the last game where I remember people having those conversations. Even today though there are games where I'll just accept those kinds of framerates if the graphics are worth it, like in Metro Exodus or something. People are dealing with it now with stuff like 4K, ray-tracing, or certain games with "extreme" graphics options that are obviously not meant for today's PCs. Shit, Arma has taught me that 18fps really is playable.
I'd argue against your point about the Xbox One X not being able to play games. Compared to my PC it is a million times better. I've played BFV on both my PC and One X and it's night and day. A choppy mess on PC and a (mostly) buttery smooth 60 fps on Xbox. I'm sure if I were to upgrade to 2017-era PC hardware (to match the release year of the One X) it'd be a better experience, but as I've mentioned before I don't want to bother building a new PC to play games that I can already play on the Xbox I own.
I haven't invested much into my PC recently. I got my 1050ti used for $100, I got a 500GB SSD, and I got an extra 8 gigs of RAM. That's about all I can do without upgrading to a new CPU generation.
The One X will most certainly not be hopelessly obsolete next year. games will continue to release for it (like Halo Infinite) for a few years. It WILL be obsolete by definition, but not to the point of being unusable.
As you said, you don't need to buy the latest, most powerful console as soon as it comes out. Or even at all for that matter. You can buy the $500 console and ride it out for the entire generation. You might not be running games at their best quality, but at least your $500 investment will stretch an extra few years. That said, a $1000 PC investment would likely stretch a bit further.
My mistake when I built my PC in 2011 was that it was near the end of a generation. For the first few years, everything was great because I could run anything that came out fairly well. It wasn't the greatest PC in the world, but it was much better than a 360. Then, when the PS4 and Xbox One came out suddenly PC requirements went up exponentially. I was forced to run games at lower and lower specs until eventually, I couldn't comfortably run any new AAA games at all. That's when I had to either buy a new PC or a console. A used console was the cheaper option, so that's what I went with. I could have pieced together a PC from used parts, but that still would have been more expensive.
Also, I actually didn't get my One X for $500. I traded my One S (that I bought for $200) to GameStop when RDR2 launched. They had two deals running where if you trade a One S for a One X you get $250, plus an extra $100 if you buy a One X with RDR2. So I effectively got my One X for $150.
I'm getting to the point in my life (now that I've graduated from college) that I may be able to afford a new PC soon. 2021 would probably be a great time to build one since the new consoles will be out and PC requirements will likely go up again. That way I can plan my PC accordingly to last a long time instead of having it become obsolete after only a few years. When games stop releasing on the Xbox One platform, I'll have to buy something new, so it really might as well be a nice, shiny, 1440p/144hz-capable beast of a PC.
As a pc peasant, cheap prices and exclusives are mostly why i mainly play on PC. Most indie stuff are too low budget and niche to even get out of pc, so it's easily the best platform for jewel hunting. But prices are clearly the real motive lol
I don't really get what you're trying to say here. Play multiplayer game, chat with your friends with discord running on the background, and that's it. Everything plays nice with it afaik.
I don't really get what you're trying to say here. Play multiplayer game, chat with your friends with discord running on the background, and that's it. Everything plays nice with it afaik.