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PC Version of Phoenix Point (X-Com spiritual successor, crowdfunded game) 1 year exclusive to the Epic Game Store
- Thread starter BlueOdin
- Start date
I wonder if we will be able to extrapolate a figure for how much Epic paid the developer in total with the information Fig share with investors.
It's sad devs are willing to take a short term money hat to see their game bomb.
Rise of the tomb raider bombed because it launched in Xbox only. I can see the new metro doing terrible pc numbers too.
Rise of the tomb raider bombed because it launched in Xbox only. I can see the new metro doing terrible pc numbers too.
No, at most we might find out how much Epic paid them. But given it's going to be on Game Pass, and thus got a payment from MS as well, the water is already muddied.
The sales information wont be made to the investors? Thats kind of wild.
No, when they pay out initially, it's usually when it's first viable. We found out PoE 2's sales figures for instance, by the payout investors received, and using math to extrapolate from that, we didn't get the actual sales figures.
So we will at best, see a figure that is going to be watered down by the Epic and Microsoft payments, and thus any meaningful information would be hard to glean at best.
If it means having a profitable game that is money for the future though. Metro imo maybe made less sense as they had the console sales too. In any case I don't think there's devs taking the money hat without running the numbers. 4A probably ran the numbers and were like yeah our launch 1st year sales on the last 2 games weren't even that much, so probably an easy decision.
I didn't even fund this game and and I feel like I want a refund.
Feel bad for those that did. Complete total shill move.
Feel bad for those that did. Complete total shill move.
From here on out, whenever epic buys an exclusive game, I will post this :
""Well, I should be very clear," Sweeney said. "The thing that I feel is incredibly important for the future of the industry is that the PC platform remains open, so that any user without any friction can install applications from any developer, and ensure that no company, Microsoft or anybody else, can insert themselves by force as the universal middleman, and force developers to sell through them instead of selling directly to customers. "
""Well, I should be very clear," Sweeney said. "The thing that I feel is incredibly important for the future of the industry is that the PC platform remains open, so that any user without any friction can install applications from any developer, and ensure that no company, Microsoft or anybody else, can insert themselves by force as the universal middleman, and force developers to sell through them instead of selling directly to customers. "
I do not mind opening a different program on my PC, I'll take the free dlc. I'm from a console background, none of this phases me.
This safety net is better
At the expense of destroying your old one and never being able to use it again
This is the third tier of safety nets lol. Crowd funded / Fig investments, then the Xbox Game Pass deal, then this. This game hedged its bets on it's hedged bets on it's hedged bets. I'm dying to know whether or not they owe Fig investors a proportion of revenue from copies sold only, or also from these other deals.
Fig have confirmed that money from this deal counts as revenue and backers will benefit from it. Check post on previous page.
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This'll never happen, but their legitimately needs to be an open discussion in this industry related to cost of games, projected sales and the saturated market. If Phoenix Point was moneyhatted for say, $200k, then that's something that could start debate on how much games cost to produce vs how much consumers expect to pay for them.
I had forgotten about it's original release and just picked it up last week. It's a really fantastic game. I went to check out the community and such and found that it was near nonexistent. Like less than 2k subscribers in the subreddit. I can't help but think that releasing it into the Steam ecosystem would have been a better move.
Yeah, I was looking at numbers like Twitch viewers and Reddit subs and they were pretty rough. The thing with Early Access is that you try to get as many voices and as much external feedback as possible before 1.0 and this game probably doesn't get as much as it could, though I trust Supergiant to know how to design a game. It would be absolutely terrible for other genres or developers.
I doubt they were planning on releasing much paid DLC until this deal happened and they scrambled to make it sound better to their backers.
This news is so disappointing.
Taking money is always an easy decision. If it comes down to "give customers what they want" or "give ourselves what we want," the latter wins every time. Nobody is questioning the financial motivations here. We're just disappointed that developers are so quick to throw their customers to the gutter.
I'm pretty sure they're contractually prohibited from disclosing those numbers. I'm surprised they're even allowed to mention the bribes at all (though it's possible that the devs who have done so did it in violation of their contract).
Oh well, guess I'll just play this next year.
Honoring preorders on other stores and still allowing everyone else to buy it at another store is throwing your customers to the curb?
Retailers buy exclusive lines all the time. Is a fashion house setting up an exclusive retailer for something throwing their customer to the curb?
No. It's hey loyal customer, here is where you can buy this. It's not some insane concept.
What are you talking about? Phoenix Point isn't available on other stores. The dev said that they'll give backers a Steam/GOG key after the 1-year EGS exclusivity contract ends. If I had backed the game with the expectation of receiving a Steam or GOG key at launch (as was originally promised), I'd be pretty pissed off right now.
I swear, EGS defenders don't even bother reading or doing any research before spouting their nonsense.
My bad, I guess I misread the first page of the thread. Thought they were providing steam and gog keys to backers for launch. If they really don't do that that's pretty crappy.
From what I understand the difference between this game and Metro is that Metro had pre orders on Steam, which allowed Deep Silver to generate steam keys for pre orders. Since Phoenix Point never had an official steam pre order the dev Snapshot Games can't get keys for backers. The compromise made after the backlash is now the dev is promising steam and gog keys one year after release for backers.
Are you talking about Hades? Yeah the thread for the game on this forum is tumbleweeds and so is the subreddit page.
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Wouldn't help here. They'd just call this a 1-year delay for backers.
Burning through your goodwill and destroying your community relations forever in 8 hours is pretty impressive. So like congrats on that I guess.
This.
Also with these kind of moves I will probably never support the Epic Store. This isn't the kind of competition we need in the PC space.
something like "must appear on Steam/GOG/itch.io/whatever no later than the release date on any other store" or some such.
Also the fan base for this game seems like it's the super plugged in hardcore type who would be extra pissed off with this kind of fucking about.
That's... Shallow, I think is the most accurate word to use here. Again, no analysis, no look at the deeper consequences, just... Nothing.
You mean cash. They're wanting the cash that Epic are "selling".
And no mention of backers having to wait a year for a Steam key? Doesn't that kinda contradict
But whatevs. Definitely don't feel bad about blocking ads on RPS now.
You both are right that Epic is not acting like a charity that helps starving artist devs -- and I don't blame them; they can't hold the industry up themselves, Epic would just be tying themselves to games that gamers don't buy. But I don't think it's safe to assume this game would have been profitable without the help. Wouldn't be surprised if they already ran out of the fig money -- they started development over 2 years ago and $700k doesn't go far when you have a team to feed (it's not even enough to pay competitive salaries for a team of 5 over 3 years and I assume their team is larger and obviously has costs beyond salaries). Decent chance they've been taking contract work to keep the studio open -- which is also dangerous because it delays their own projects.
I also agree that the gaming industry is unsustainable -- gamers only buy the hits so the industry is naturally consolidating. It's partly why I got out.
Someone came up to them and offered them more money -- money they can use to make sure they keep the lights on, money they can use to further invest in the game. Less than two weeks ago, while they were probably wrapping up the deal, they announced a delay -- they said the extra time will be used to polish and test more. They probably had to cut corners on that stuff before securing the extra cash that gave them a longer runway, and that stuff might seem superfluous, but polish can often make or break a game (especially one built around systems that need to be fine tuned to perfection, like this one). Then when they announced the Epic deal, they also talked about how it funds DLC development for a year meaning they get to put in more ideas they didn't think they'd be able to add to the game.
Every dev has a vision for their game that goes beyond what they're able to achieve before they have to release something so they don't go homeless. Miyamoto famously said "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever." -- that's not a luxury indie devs, even ones with mid-sized budgets, can usually afford. This deal lets them get a bit closer to their full vision for their game. And not having to stress over where you'll get grocery money in a few months is always good for mental health.
And what do customers lose..? They have to use a different launcher to download/update the game. Millions of people used Epic's launcher just to play Fortnite. Millions of people used Origin just to play Apex Legends. A relatively small group of people will have strong preferences for Linux and/or certain storefronts and they've been offered refunds if they don't want to wait, but many of these responses are just overblown to a ridiculous degree.
If these sorts of deals actually do materialize into long term damage to any dev that takes these offers, it won't be because of reasoned backlash -- it'll be because a group of gamers worked themselves up into a frenzy over something stupid and continue to push the industry toward consolidation.
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*Complains about journalism, doesn't support journalism*
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Fuck Epic for continuing to do everything in its power to make the PC games marketplace follow the trajectory of streaming video and turn into an anticompetitive shitshow like cable. Fuck these greedy morons for helping.
Yeah honestly they are fantastic developers and the game is already amazing. I doubt they needed any input, but I'm sure it's nice to have some extra cash while they're finishing up the game.
Except this isn't true. None of us have an issue with using a different launcher. What we have an issue with is when a company acts against competition, by not competing on features or selection, but rather by using cash to force people to use their store. Epic buying exclusivity for a game means that game won't be available to purchase anywhere outside of the Epic store. For 1 year. This is without precedent on a large scale within the PC ecosystem - a reduction of basic consumer choice that allows people to pick-and-choose what stores they want to support. Want to buy Phoenix Point on Humble to support charity? Oh, sorry, you can't. Want to buy it at Wingamestore because they're a smaller store who need the cash from loyal customers? Oh, sorry, you can't. Want to avoid giving your cash to a hypocrite? Oh, sorry, you can't.
( https://www.pcgamer.com/tim-sweeney-microsoft-uwp-is-still-woefully-inadequate/ )
Yes, exclusive games existed prior to Epic buying games out, but they were almost entirely 1st party exclusives, not 3rd party.
This is silly. It's like saying me cancelling my NYT subscription in 2016 meant journalistic standards fell. I'll support good journalism, but I won't support any old shit just because it's a "news website".
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