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Tombstone for Orange should say:

  • Windows ME is a good operating system

    Votes: 42 16.4%
  • UN Ambassador for PC Gaming

    Votes: 34 13.3%
  • Report this Orange man

    Votes: 10 3.9%
  • Still thinks PC Gaming is dead

    Votes: 22 8.6%
  • ༼ つ ▀̿_▀̿ ༽つ (I have no idea if this one is allowed)

    Votes: 57 22.3%
  • nice thread btw :)

    Votes: 91 35.5%

  • Total voters
    256
  • Poll closed .
Status
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Aeferis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,626
Italy
I tried ProtonVPN with a server in Japan yesterday and could not get the game.

You might need to log out from any Steam mobile app you're logged on currently, then use the VPN to access Steam on PC. Never downloaded anything from other stores but I had a similar problem unlocking a pre-loaded game.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
The silly part is that steam reviews provide information that you can parse! If you're taking note of one line reviews or reading only the very first few than you're dumb/lazy, either dev or gamer. Seriously how hard is to do a little reading?

You say this as though anti-vaxxers aren't a thing. That fascism isn't on the rise. That people don't believe Fox News hate-pieces on Democratic Politicians. That people didn't vote for Brexit based on easily refutable lies. People are dumb/lazy and do want the easy route. So I do understand that having ignorant/lazy people type super trash isn't what creators want for their products. Let's not pretend that all the Steam reviewers are fantastically intelligent, reasonable people. Yes, Steam reviews are useful, but they're not all wonderful just like they're not all "super trash".
 
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YuSuzzune

Member
Nov 21, 2018
4,848
This trend of attacking user reviews is far more concerning than Epic Exclusives to me and it's completely selfish by devs. Devs should be protected from unfair reviews? What about consumers being protected from bad games, or better yet games with dubious practices?

The silly part is that steam reviews provide information that you can parse! If you're taking note of one line reviews or reading only the very first few than you're dumb/lazy, either dev or gamer. Seriously how hard is to do a little reading?
I think many people are missing the point the majority of devs/publishers don't want your opinion, just your money.
Having the reviews is a way to express your concern toward a game, if there were no reviews they could just ignore all the comments about the quality of the game, considering the steam community hub is not reliable enough because too many persons just troll here. With reviews otherwise if something about your game is wrong it will reflect on the main store page for that game with a mixed or negative overall score, and if devs/pubs want to keep selling the product they need to either provide a fix or just ignore the whole thing and hope for the best (many do that too). But by doing this they will probably impact future sales of their games because the majority of people won't forget that.

Having no reviews mean those devs/pubs can just get away with some nasty shity with no consequences at all, considering the "gaming journalism" is not really reliable those days (I'd say it's a joke or another marketing channel entirely).
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
You say this as though anti-vaxxers aren't a thing. That fascism isn't on the rise. That people don't believe Fox News hate-pieces on Democratic Politicians. That people didn't vote for Brexit based on easily refutable lies. People are dumb/lazy and do want the easy route. So I do understand that having ignorant/lazy people type super trash isn't what creators want for their products. Let's not pretend that all the Steam reviewers are fantastically intelligent, reasonable people.

For every played-1hour thumbs-down trash review, there are three played-1hour thumbs-up trash reviews. One-liner good reviews are as trash as one-liner bad reviews. As a consumer I want to know what is bad or what is good when deciding to buy a game.
 

Ascheroth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,647
Having no reviews mean those devs/pubs can just get away with some nasty shity with no consequences at all, considering the "gaming journalism" is not really reliable those days (I'd say it's a joke or another marketing channel entirely).
Having no reviews means I'm not going to buy their game at all unless there is some really good word-of-mouth.
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,917
Imagine if some director would suggest to shut down IMDB scores and user reviews? Or some writer will do the same in regards of Goodreads? They would be (rightfully) laughed at and ridiculed. What some devs want is even worse than that, it's more akin to consumer goods sellers demanding no review policy from Amazon because "it can hurt their brand" or something to that effect. To hell with that attitude, if your ego is so fragile that you can't handle a couple of mean words from a faceless twat on the internet maybe you shouldn't put your product for sale in the first place.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
For every played-1hour thumbs-down trash review, there are three played-1hour thumbs-up trash reviews. One-liner good reviews are as trash as one-liner bad reviews. As a consumer I want to know what is bad or what is good when deciding to buy a game.

Yup, absolutely, me too. But I honestly think there's a good deal of bias involved when both devs and customers talk about Steam reviews, and conversations like this ^^^^ don't help matters. Review bombing has poisoned the well of discourse, to an extent, so that devs say "Steam reviews are bad" we say "No, they're not", and the truth is in the middle (skewing very slightly one way or the other).
 

BlueOdin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,014
Whenever the talk comes to user reviews I remember someone around the EGS launch saying that no public information about concurrent players is good for the customer because there can be no negative narrative about the dwindling playerbase so you might pick up a multiplayer focussed game and the playerbase will be healthy. That was some galaxy brain shit.

There are user reviews that are trash, there are user reviews that are good. Same is true for the professional field of reviews. And the latter will never be able to keep up with all indie games, good or bad. Heck, they aren't even able to do it with the midsized indie stuff.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
Is there any actual data that shows how much "review bombing" affects sales?
I'm sure The Last Jedi or Captain Marvel did alright.

Looking at the couple of games I remember getting review-bombed:
Chuchel is at mostly positive
Payday 2 is at very positive
Borderlands 2 is at overwhelmingly positive
The Metro games are at mostly positive
Even Metro Exodus is at very positive (which is bad, because the game is mediocre at best)

All those "review bombings" last maybe a week or so at most anyway and then things even out again anyway.
 

BlueOdin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,014
Is there any actual data that shows how much "review bombing" affects sales?
I'm sure The Last Jedi or Captain Marvel did alright.

Looking at the couple of games I remember getting review-bombed:
Chuchel is at mostly positive
Payday 2 is at very positive
Borderlands 2 is at overwhelmingly positive
The Metro games are at mostly positive
Even Metro Exodus is at very positive (which is bad, because the game is mediocre at best)

All those "review bombings" last maybe a week or so at most anyway and then things even out again anyway.

These things happen and get blown way out of proportions.

I think many want them to go away because bigots misuse them like in the cases of Chuchel (changed protagonist colors) and Firewatch (Campo Santo DMCA'd PDP after him being racist/anti-Semitic). And now manchildren because "game not on Steam".
 

Catshade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,198
Since Valve loves our input to hide away 'undesirable' elements from our personalized frontpage, I wish there's a way to hide trollish one-liner reviews. Allow me to hide every reviews from a particular user the same way we're already able hide every game from a particular dev/publisher.
 

kafiend

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,249
Imagine if some director would suggest to shut down IMDB scores and user reviews? Or some writer will do the same in regards of Goodreads? They would be (rightfully) laughed at and ridiculed. What some devs want is even worse than that, it's more akin to consumer goods sellers demanding no review policy from Amazon because "it can hurt their brand" or something to that effect. To hell with that attitude, if your ego is so fragile that you can't handle a couple of mean words from a faceless twat on the internet maybe you shouldn't put your product for sale in the first place.

Not that I can be bothered to find them for your convenience and their comedy value, but there are some fantastic examples of authors taking reviews and the reviewers themselves in bad temper on goodreads.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,394
i just don't get why valve let 'funny' reviews be a thing. it completely undermines the whole review system and encourages spam or troll-y engagement.

if they have so little regard for contents, they should just let it be a thumbs up/down system with comments optional so it'd be easier to see thoughtful reviews (beyond just "most useful"). i imagine the anti-review bomb system would work the same.
 

Gelf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,293
I used to have a much more negative opinion of user reviews but they can be very useful particularly in the case of niche titles. It only takes a couple of well written ones for them to be a good buyers guide, I can easily ignore the rest of the drek. People get too hung up on games having thier objectively correct score as if thats possible, a well written one on the front page is all I need and often I can get that.
 

BlueOdin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,014
i just don't get why valve let 'funny' reviews be a thing. it completely undermines the whole review system and encourages spam or troll-y engagement.

if they have so little regard for contents, they should just let it be a thumbs up/down system with comments optional so it'd be easier to see thoughtful reviews (beyond just "most useful"). i imagine the anti-review bomb system would work the same.

I think after a number of funny ratings or the ratio to the other ratings a "funny" review shouldn't be counted towards the overall impression.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Is there any actual data that shows how much "review bombing" affects sales?
I'm sure The Last Jedi or Captain Marvel did alright.

Looking at the couple of games I remember getting review-bombed:
Chuchel is at mostly positive
Payday 2 is at very positive
Borderlands 2 is at overwhelmingly positive
The Metro games are at mostly positive
Even Metro Exodus is at very positive (which is bad, because the game is mediocre at best)

All those "review bombings" last maybe a week or so at most anyway and then things even out again anyway.

Likes Borederlands 2 but says Metro Exodus is mediocre...

Anyways I don't think user reviews need any work, except anything that's actual hate speech.
 

Stoze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,588
I used to have a much more negative opinion of user reviews but they can be very useful particularly in the case of niche titles. It only takes a couple of well written ones for them to be a good buyers guide, I can easily ignore the rest of the drek. People get too hung up on games having thier objectively correct score as if thats possible, a well written one on the front page is all I need and often I can get that.
Yeah, I mean that's mostly how I use it and presume others do as well. It's an aggregate system after all.

I think the problem for indie developers is they can't/don't really approach it like that - they look at all the reviews and all the criticism because it's their game and they are desperately trying to understand and react to what people are saying. Especially when it's indie devs with review counts under 500 or so we're talking about, because it's not time consuming or unreasonable to do that. It's kinda like how developers have a hard time looking at their games from the perspective of the player after a while. In this case it's not the player but the consumer/Steam user perspective they have trouble seeing.

So I can understand why devs are frustrated and look down on the system (even though I disagree its flat out "terrible"), but at the end of the day what matters is if they are actually listening and taking the real criticism to heart. And the Pathway devs clearly are.
 

Jiffy Smooth

Member
Dec 12, 2018
462
i just don't get why valve let 'funny' reviews be a thing. it completely undermines the whole review system and encourages spam or troll-y engagement.

if they have so little regard for contents, they should just let it be a thumbs up/down system with comments optional so it'd be easier to see thoughtful reviews (beyond just "most useful"). i imagine the anti-review bomb system would work the same.

Funny reviews are a thing on Amazon too. It's harmless. If anything, I bet smaller devs could use a good "funny" review as a hook to get people looking at their store page.
 

Cooking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,451
Trying to decide between playing Dragons Dogma or playing The Surge + DLC. After getting all achievements in sekiro I've been crippled by indecision :( any suggestions either way?

If it matters re: dragons dogma, I have DMCV but bounced off it because I'm not crazy about the combat system. I know itsuno directed both, but it doesn't seem like they're similar at all combat wise - am I mistaken?
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Trying to decide between playing Dragons Dogma or playing The Surge + DLC. After getting all achievements in sekiro I've been crippled by indecision :( any suggestions either way?

If it matters re: dragons dogma, I have DMCV but bounced off it because I'm not crazy about the combat system. I know itsuno directed both, but it doesn't seem like they're similar at all combat wise - am I mistaken?
Why not play something light to cool off from playing such a large game.
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Trying to decide between playing Dragons Dogma or playing The Surge + DLC. After getting all achievements in sekiro I've been crippled by indecision :( any suggestions either way?

If it matters re: dragons dogma, I have DMCV but bounced off it because I'm not crazy about the combat system. I know itsuno directed both, but it doesn't seem like they're similar at all combat wise - am I mistaken?
Haven't played The Surge, but Dark Arisen is excellent and you should definitely give it a try. DD is also an RPG, the combat is nothing like DMC.
 

UltraJay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,573
Australia
Hey PC Gaming Era,

How good is the inhouse Steam streaming?
I mean when I have a computer in another room with a good GPU and CPU, and I have let's say a bad laptop in another room and I want to play any game, I know that it's possible to stream it on the laptop. How good is the quality? How much of an impact will it have if the laptop is on Wifi?

Also, is there any way to do this with non-steam games?

Thanks !

Remember that it can also work over the internet with the latest Steam Link app and the latest beta client. It works really well over 4G and my university's wifi. I do wish more than just the Android app could do it though. I'd either have to use an Android emulator or a Raspberry Pi like device to stream over the internet to my laptop.

Don't worry about having trouble launching some games from Steam, you don't HAVE to add them as non-Steam games. You can minimize Big Picture Mode and get access to your desktop (or even start in desktop with some settings). You can control the mouse with your controller and launch anything that way.
 

Kwigo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,025
Remember that it can also work over the internet with the latest Steam Link app and the latest beta client. It works really well over 4G and my university's wifi. I do wish more than just the Android app could do it though. I'd either have to use an Android emulator or a Raspberry Pi like device to stream over the internet to my laptop.

Don't worry about having trouble launching some games from Steam, you don't HAVE to add them as non-Steam games. You can minimize Big Picture Mode and get access to your desktop (or even start in desktop with some settings). You can control the mouse with your controller and launch anything that way.
Well if I use the in-Steam streaming I wouldn't be able to minimize the BP Mode on the receiving computer, since I wouldn't stream it like with the Steam Link app.
 

Cooking

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,451
Why not play something light to cool off from playing such a large game.
Without trying to sound like an elitist/try hard/etc. it's a lot easier for me to focus and get invested in a more difficult or complex game. That being said, if you have any suggestions on lighter games feel free to send them my way :)

Haven't played The Surge, but Dark Arisen is excellent and you should definitely give it a try. DD is also an RPG, the combat is nothing like DMC.

Thanks! Leaning towards this one as the Surge might lean too close to From's Games right now. That's mostly a good thing but after 70 hours of sekiro I might burn myself out.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,792
Oman
Without trying to sound like an elitist/try hard/etc. it's a lot easier for me to focus and get invested in a more difficult or complex game. That being said, if you have any suggestions on lighter games feel free to send them my way :)



Thanks! Leaning towards this one as the Surge might lean too close to From's Games right now. That's mostly a good thing but after 70 hours of sekiro I might burn myself out.
Hmm depends on what is in your library, but hey it's cool if you feel more comfortable playing difficult or complex games instead :3
 

DeejayDoom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,006
3 weeks later:

Wrcoki8.png
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,230
3 week old games still sell on Steam? That's desperate.

Anno 1800 second, people desperate to get it before it gets Epic'd.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,194
Trying to decide between playing Dragons Dogma or playing The Surge + DLC. After getting all achievements in sekiro I've been crippled by indecision :( any suggestions either way?

If it matters re: dragons dogma, I have DMCV but bounced off it because I'm not crazy about the combat system. I know itsuno directed both, but it doesn't seem like they're similar at all combat wise - am I mistaken?
DD combat is nothing like DMC. It's a really good game.

The Surge is basically a jank imitation of Dark Souls. It's not a bad game, but it's not a great game either.
 

Wok

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,258
France
The bar is high when it comes to Metroidvania. You cannot seriously expect to sell your game like hot cakes when you are competing against this line-up.



In this case, the game also belongs to the genre "First Person Puzzle Platformer" like Portal, so it is even harder.

It does not mean that the game is bad in any way, only that it is going to be hard to convert views into sales. Imagine that the viewers have "Hollow Knight" and "Portal 2" in their wishlists, they are going to add "Supraland" to their wishlist, not insta-buy it. The dev should talk about the number of wishlists.
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
I love how Football Manager is the only game that constantly bugs me to check if my video drivers are up to date. A game that looks like an excel spreadsheet and gets no graphical updates all year long.
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
I'm interested to know how a Giant Bomb quick look has an influence on sales and visibility.
chubigans might have some data on that (not that he should be inclined to share of course).

I remember him saying that Ryan's QL of CSD helped him a lot, although that was a while ago. There was also a good QL of CSD2.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,071
Hull, UK
dOgWrUSh.png


Just finished my latest playthrough of Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines. What an all time classic of a game, the atmosphere is second to none.
 

Teggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Wondering if anyone is good at custom mouse config?

One of the things that gives me trouble playing mouse and keyboard is stretching my fingers around to do things like sprinting and crouching. I have a pretty fancy Logitech mouse that I never take advantage, so I figured I'd give it a try.

I'm playing Dark Messiah of Might and Magic and tried to bind sprint, stealth and crouch to some of the buttons. What I wanted to do is set these as a toggle, however, toggle doesn't work in game if I set the key (alt, for example) to toggle in the app. I can only set it to a single button press, so I have to hold the button down.

Does anyone know why the game won't accept the toggle?
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,662
Western Australia


But Epic hired someone whose only relevant experience is scraping an API for data, making embarrassingly specious inferences that crumble under scrutiny, and having a woefully tepid understanding of the one platform that indirectly got him the job in the first place; and he said social media is far more valuable than platform-assisted user-to-user/user-to-developer interaction.

(Side-note: That's not to imply Steam's review system is perfect. It very much has its seat in the gulf between "worthless" and "perfect".)
 
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Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354


I have to question this, heavily.

- Someone with millions of subs
- and the video has 250k views
- can't be in English, so must be in the native language of the influencer because the dev correlates those 2 sales with that video.
- but from a country that has such low sales that he can say those 2 sales are from the influencer

Or was it a sponsored video with referral links?
Even if it was sponsored with a referral link, unless it is >20% discount, I would never use a referral link, because I can find it for a lower price or because I don't want to buy it immediately after watching a video
 

Talus

Banned
Dec 9, 2017
1,386
But Epic hired someone whose only relevant experience is scraping an API for data, making embarrassingly specious inferences that crumble under scrutiny, and having a woefully tepid understanding of the one platform that indirectly got him the job in the first place; and he said social media is far more valuable than platform-assisted user-to-user interaction.
Anecdotal evidence sure is great..

So, you think youtubers and twitch streamers don't make much of a difference? Or that this is indicative of influencers "influence" in general?
 
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