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Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,840
This is mainly in reference to Phil Spencer's remark that the Series X will be a 40K/60 showcase. He makes it sound as though that will be standard, but I'm curious what it would take to get that far today (in terms of hardware and money). Is it a realistic claim in your opinion? I don't game on PC so I have no perspective on this issue.
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,057
Work
4k/60fps will not be a standard.

It's obtainable in most cases now if you're beefing out top of the line hardware. We're talking $1,500 -$2,500 depending on title and how high you wanna crank your settings out.
 

Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
Basically you need a RTX 2080Ti ($1300 just for GPU) for 4K60 and even that can't do some of the latest games in 4K60 on max settings without dips to 50s or 40s.
 

funo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
432
4k/60 will easily cost you 2000+ Dollars and even then it's not guaranteed that it will be locked 60 so you'd probably have to tone down some options for some games
 

MrAlderson

Member
Apr 19, 2018
646
This is mainly in reference to Phil Spencer's remark that the Series X will be a 40K/60 showcase. He makes it sound as though that will be standard, but I'm curious what it would take to get that far today (in terms of hardware and money). Is it a realistic claim in your opinion? I don't game on PC so I have no perspective on this issue.
The graphics card in that console is more powerful than an 2080 super at least based on the desktop version, 4k 60fps should be achievable with the right settings
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,896
I have an i9 9900, 32GB RAM, RTX 2080 and could not hit 4K60FPS with fallen order. I played it 3200x1800 60FPS.
 

Calibro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,822
Belarus
If you want 4k60 ultra you pretty much have to get an rtx 2080 ti or two, and even that's not a guarantee in a lot of games since optimization is hard. But if you are willing to compromise on graphical fidelity, it's a more attainable thing.
 

Fachasaurus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,354
VRR is going to be this console generations bread and butter.

Everyone should start saving up some money for a new TV.
 

Rad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,068
Stable 4k60fps is very demanding. 2k60fps however is much easier to achieve and should be the minimum next gen. 2k60fps or 4k30fps, depending on genre.
 

Deleted member 8468

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,109
For next gen sure, games will be designed with one box in mind. Depending on the engine/purpose it can definitely happen.

Currently on PC it depends on the game again, but most people aren't running 4k60. For many the emphasis is on higher refresh rate monitors, and having the fps at 100 or higher. Different priorities for different games as always.
 

fl1ppyB

Member
Jun 11, 2018
347
I've essentially rebuilt my machine throughout this year for these prices:
CPU(Ryzen 2600x)+MoBo+16GB RAM = $330
GPU(2070S) = $550

I can push 4k 60FPS in most current games I've tried, occasionally requiring dropping a couple of settings off Maximun.

Some games have optimization issues though and that's always gonna be the case. I ran Fallen Order at locked 60fps (other than the area-loading hitches) at 1440p. Actual FPS probably would have been higher but I had vsync on. I ran Control at 1080p with nVidia Sharpening enabled in order to use Ray Tracing.
 

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
It's pretty hard to achieve right now , however it will be standard next gen, and should be more feasable with the high memory bandwidth of the next gen consoles and techniques like VRS. There's a reason we will get 12 tflops. It's needed for 4K while still delivering a generational leap alongside architecture improvements like RT and dramatic increase in CPU performance.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,228
All depends on the game, breh. It will always depend on the game.
This. Some games are incredibly well optimised, like Gears 5; that'll run at 4K/60fps (with a few dips to 50ish) with most things on ultra or high on a 1080. Then you have other games (like Control) where 4K at anything above 15fps on the same setup is a pipe dream, no matter how much you lower your other settings.

The best compromise is 1440p/60fps - especially with games, like Control, that let you render the UI at 4k and run the game engine at 1440p.
 

deltabreak

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,321
I imagine that with optimized settings and a freesync TV/monitor, it should be very doable to get a good experience on 4K
 
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
This. Some games are incredibly well optimised, like Gears 5; that'll run at 4K/60fps
I'ts not just about "being optimized".
Some games are just lighter in detail or simply of lesser overall complexity.
Running Wind Waker or Breath of the Wild at 4K and running Star Citizen or Red Dead Redemption 2 at 4K are not even remotely close to be the same task.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,382
Easy if you are willing to sacrifice settings, which many PC gamers are not & that creates a feedback loop that 4K/60 is impossible. It's honestly a serious problem & probably makes devs scared to introduce higher end settings, because people expect their GTX 960 to max everything out or else it's a shitty unoptimised console port, RDR2 somewhat deserves this, but most games not really.

Just put stuff like shadows to high & volumetrics to medium if you can, the performance increase from some minor visual cutbacks is huge.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,896
Easy if you are willing to sacrifice settings, which many PC gamers are not & that creates a feedback loop that 4K/60 is impossible. It's honestly a serious problem & probably makes devs scared to introduce higher end settings, because people expect their GTX 960 to max everything out or else it's a shitty unoptimised console port, RDR2 somewhat deserves this, but most games not really.

Just put stuff like shadows to high & volumetrics to medium if you can, the performance increase from some minor visual cutbacks is huge.
This is true, which is why I prefer the console experience. Games are optimized for me so I don't feel like I am making a sacrifice. I know it's weird to feel that way but when I change a setting from ultra to high I start doubting my investment, lol. I know I have a problem.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
This is true, which is why I prefer the console experience. Games are optimized for me so I don't feel like I am making a sacrifice. I know it's weird to feel that way but when I change a setting from ultra to high I start doubting my investment, lol. I know I have a problem.
It's understandable. Sometimes fewer options can help people avoid paralysis of analysis. "it just is what it is" works for a lot of people, especially if they otherwise would be stressing out and watching FPS counters in perpetuity.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
95% of games run at a locked 60fps at native 4K on my overclocked RTX2080Ti (MSI Trio) and i9-9900k with Ultra settings. If I lower settings then that becomes 100%.

Those few games which don't hit a locked 60fps at 4k Ultra (eg The Outer Worlds, Monster Hunter Worlds) I can still enjoy at a smooth framerate thanks to G-Sync (which my C9 OLED supports thankfully) - it means any drops below 60 are no longer noticeable.

But this is current gen games. Next gen games will be more demanding, especially with ray-tracing taken in to account. And no doubt consoles will become 30fps boxes again and I'll drift back to PC.
 

Xiofire

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
People saying 2080Ti are clearly just cranking all sliders to the right in the settings menu and hoping for 60fps.

Red Dead Redemption 2 runs with some settings on low on console and looks amazing. Adopt the same philosophy on PC and you can get 4K60 on even moderate hardware.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680
It is not even for a 2080/ti at Ultra specs

for that we need to cross 20 tflops.
 

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,907
Toronto
Ultra? No set up can just let you assume you can do it.

With settings tweaking? You can do it in -most- games on a 2080ti. Most not all. Even a 2080S can perform pretty well.

But yeah no modern set up can let you just assume you can play, say, all next year's games at 4k/60.
 

Remeran

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,896
It's understandable. Sometimes fewer options can help people avoid paralysis of analysis. "it just is what it is" works for a lot of people, especially if they otherwise would be stressing out and watching FPS counters in perpetuity.
Well said, this is exactly how it works for me. I loved playing fallen order on my computer, it looked and ran great but the first couple hours were me agonizing about performance.
 

MechaMarmaset

Member
Nov 20, 2017
3,582
People saying 2080Ti are clearly just cranking all sliders to the right in the settings menu and hoping for 60fps.

Red Dead Redemption 2 runs with some settings on low on console and looks amazing. Adopt the same philosophy on PC and you can get 4K60 on even moderate hardware.

They should just show us the presets they use for the other systems in the menu so that we can easily compare the experience. As it is right now, there are 50 sliders in every game and it's easier to just max them all out (except AA) than pretend like I care to find the balance by myself.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,228
I'ts not just about "being optimized".
Some games are just lighter in detail or simply of lesser overall complexity.
Running Wind Waker or Breath of the Wild at 4K and running Star Citizen or Red Dead Redemption 2 at 4K are not even remotely close to be the same task.
Sure. I didn't mean to imply that wasn't the case, but Gears 5 isn't a game you'd look at and think it was short on geometric detail or effects work, and yet it performs surprisingly well.
 

TrishaCat

Member
Oct 26, 2017
672
United States
Depends on the game. For modern big-budget AAA titles? No way, that's not attainable.
For lower end games? Sure! Tales of Berseria and Atelier Sophie for example run at 4k 60fps on my 970. With higher end cards, you absolutely can do 4k 60fps with a lot of newer titles. Just not big budget AAA ones.
 

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,628
On my PC (i7 8700/GTX 1070), I run my desktop resolution at 4K60 and play most games at that resolution at max settings. Obviously, intense graphical games made after 2016-2017 or so will only run a medium at best. I call Destiny 2 the PC 4K showcase game because it runs at high settings for the most part at 4K.

So really, it depends what games you are talking about. But it's fairly attainable for like 90% of games out there. Like FFXIV runs easily for me at 4K60 with everything maxed out.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,109
Australia
Depends on the game, both optimisation and technical requirements of the game itself. Running everything cranked to the right? Then you will want at least a 2080ti to stay around 4k/60 in most intensive current gen titles. Willing to sacrifice a couple of settings that don't make a large overall visual difference but hog a tonne of processing power? Then even a 1080ti will get reasonably stable 50-60fps at 4K while looking almost as good. Willing to crank some stuff even further down and impact the visuals noticeably but not catastrophically? (IE, it will still look better than a console most of the time and in the worst cases, on par) Then my old 980ti could handle 4K/60 with some work and tweaking.

But most people think of the first scenario when they ask questions like this and in that case, as I said, it's expensive and the new consoles won't be doing it at the price they need to sell them at. The hardware can and will run 4K/60 but it's not going to be comparable to a high end PC with everything cranked in a graphically intensive next-gen games. Which IMO, is perfectly fine, it doesn't need to be and games will still look stunning on next-gen consoles.
 

DoradoWinston

Member
Apr 9, 2019
6,131
depends on the game and what the devs are aiming for with said game. Xbox One X can already do some games at 4K/60 so you are bound to see titles where the devs aim for that obviously reach 4K/60 on Series X
 

Finaika

Member
Dec 11, 2017
13,330
The best thing about PC gaming is that you can play all games at 4K 60fps just by lowering the settings.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,691
Canada
The graphics card in that console is more powerful than an 2080 super at least based on the desktop version, 4k 60fps should be achievable with the right settings

I'm not entirely sure where you get your confidence that a $500 console will beat out a $750 graphics card. It would be the biggest breakthrough in systems design in the last 30 years.
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,206
On lowest settings, it's probably feasible in a lot of games with fairly middling hardware.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,382
Im not sure if they will reach 2080 Super level, but i think close to or around 2080 level is likely. I keep saying that the RTX 3060 is just gonna replace the 2080 performance wise, 2080 won't be that amazing by late 2020.
To be blunt, the 2080 was bad even for 2018, the 2070 should have been the 1080 Ti replacement, not the 2080, they fixed this with the Super series but anyone may as well wait for Ampere & Big Navi now.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,153
The Xbox Series X is sounding like it'll actually be really powerful. I guess the Xbone and PS4 being so underpowered was just a fluke.
4K 60 FPS is something a lot of PC gaming setups don't really do. 1080p is probably getting a bit long in the tooth, but 4K is too much for a lot of intensive games, and setups that aren't absolutely top of the line.
The best thing about PC gaming is that you can play all games at 4K 60fps just by lowering the settings.
Ehhhhh, kind of? A lot of games don't really have good graphics options. A good example is Final Fantasy XV, most of the settings do squat to help the game run better when you lower them. The only way to get a decent performance boost for FFXV, and most intensive games that aren't super PC-tuned like, say, Gears 5, is by lowering the resolution.
 

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,907
Toronto
Im not sure if they will reach 2080 Super level, but i think close to or around 2080 level is likely. I keep saying that the RTX 3060 is just gonna replace the 2080 performance wise, 2080 won't be that amazing by late 2020, to be blunt, the 2080 was bad even for 2018, the 2070 should have been the 1080 Ti replacement, not the 2080, they fixed this with the Super series but anyone may as well wait for Ampere & Big Navi now.

It's not gonna be 2080 levels unless the console is like $1000 considering they already are going to have fairly modern CPUs and SSD NVME storage. The numbers just don't work out. It'll likely be a cut down 5700 XT + raytracing module level of power, which is still quite good.

Remember that when Phil says "4k 60 FPS" that could mean anything - it's just the celing. Most games will still use dynamic resolution, the majority of games will still be 30 FPS, they won't be using PC Ultra settings, but lower ones, etc.