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OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Biggest disappointment: The PSVR is still the most comfortable VR headset on the market. The halo/ring headband should be adopted by everyone, and I can't believe the Quest is still using old-Oculus style velcro straps. It seems the Rift S at least has the right idea.

I really, honestly don't like the halo style headset at all. My favorite is still the Vive Deluxe Audio Strap, which you wear like a welder's mask. It cradles the back of your scull, then the headset hinges forward onto your face. The headset itself is rigid and sturdy, not velcro.
 

Ororo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,242
Love my quest, no question an improved version of the quest whether a third or fourth gen version will be the one that hits the mainstream
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,758
I just bought a Samsung Odyssey + a few hours ago, looking forward to playing some games over the next few weeks and getting my VR legs for Half Life Alyx.
 

Escaflow

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,317
All they need is a fully wireless Quest PC link and the tech will take off.

Speaking from a Rift S user here
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,920
JP
Love my quest, no question an improved version of the quest whether a third or fourth gen version will be the one that hits the mainstream

Yeah my third headset will probably be the quest mark 2. I find that ergonomics is very important for long play sessions. PSVR is comfy but I usually play half an hour each time.
 

AbsoluteZero0K

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 6, 2019
1,570
It's hella expensive.

I want to upgrade from my Rift to a wireless version but my goodness, the price point!
 

Flandy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,445
I really, honestly don't like the halo style headset at all. My favorite is still the Vive Deluxe Audio Strap, which you wear like a welder's mask. It cradles the back of your scull, then the headset hinges forward onto your face. The headset itself is rigid and sturdy, not velcro.
Not a fan of the Halo design either. Hated how the PSVR would push into my forehead and make it feel warm. I had a friend who would get massive headaches from PSVR too due to how tight it fit around his head but he had no problems with the CV1. My fav comfort design so far is the Index though it's not as massive as an improvement as I thought it would be from the CV1.
 

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,810
Germany
I mean it isnt a fad, but 2.1B in revenue arent the thing proving that.

Its a niche market that will always exist alongside traditional gaming.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,097
Happy to see it, and very much looking forward to following the evolution of VR as a medium in the coming decades.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,501
Henderson, NV
Microsoft's stance really perplexed me. Most of their decisions these past few years have pushed me to other platforms and devices. For example, I was a huge Xbox and Xbox 360 user. With digital purchases being 80 percent of my library, launching Xbox One with zero digital backward-compatibility opened the door for my initiation into the PlayStation ecosystem.

Subsequent Microsoft decisions like killing Kinect 2.0 despite its VR potential were also shocking. My last hope for getting into Xbox One was the early relationship between Microsoft and Oculus. Everyone thought that eventually, INEVITABLY, Xbox One would have some type of Native VR support at most, Rift integration at least. With Kinect 2.0 seeming a possible console based answer to external cameras, and backdoor buzz about Halo and Holo Lens exciting journalists, not only was it disappointing that nothing VR related came of it, but that Microsoft killed any chance of an immediate VR future by pasturing the Kinect, ending the partnership, and announcing that the future hardware had NO VR plans at all.

This pretty much sold me the PSVR, then eventually the QUEST, and I haven't been happier.
The rising success and adoption of VR is encouraging!
 
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Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
Not really trying to get in to an argument on whether or not it it's a fad, but not really? Kinect was selling like hot cakes at a point...

Yeah, I've always been of the opinion that VR is a niche, not a fad, but people who keep trying to say how VR is a huge success always cite revenue, not sales numbers.

$2.1B is only like 5M headsets for the year. That's not terrible, but that's like 1/8th the sales of traditional gaming hardware. Kinect sold 8M in 60 days and most people would consider that a fad.

I'm interested in VR for sim usage, but not until some improvements are made. The tech just isn't in a convenient place yet.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
but people who keep trying to say how VR is a huge success

The problem would be your lack of nuance. Either a huge success, or huge failure. you argue against straw men, nobody in this topic has said it's a huge success. The reason this figure is pointed out, is because these are measurements, milestones, that successful products eventually take. Like, the post I made contrasting this with flash in the pan technologies like Kinect. The type of thing this board loves to compare VR to, for very flawed reasons. Sales increasing every year are not something lots of technologies endure, that VR is going through this is a good sign for the technology. It's not an enormous success yet, but these are indications it is getting there.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
The problem would be your lack of nuance. Either a huge success, or huge failure. you argue against straw men, nobody in this topic has said it's a huge success. The reason this figure is pointed out, is because these are measurements, milestones, that successful products eventually take. Like, the post I made contrasting this with flash in the pan technologies like Kinect. The type of thing this board loves to compare VR to, for very flawed reasons. Sales increasing every year are not something lots of technologies endure, that VR is going through this is a good sign for the technology. It's not an enormous success yet, but these are indications it is getting there.

I'm not saying everyone is that way. Like I said, I don't think it's a fad. It is currently niche, albiet a growing one. Comparing it to Kinect in this istance is merely pointing out how this article's logic is flawed, because a device can easily achieve that level of sales in a year and still be a fad.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
I'm not saying everyone is that way. Like I said, I don't think it's a fad. It is currently niche, albiet a growing one. Comparing it to Kinect in this istance is merely pointing out how this article's logic is flawed, because a device can easily achieve that level of sales in a year and still be a fad.

you literally said people are trying to say VR is an enormous success are citing sales numbers. This is a topic about sales numbers, plenty of people are talking about sales numbers. Who are you talking about specifically? And if it's no one in this thread, that is a very weird, and antagonistic thing to bring up as a "but."

VR hasn't achieved that level of success in a year. It is achieving sustained, increasing sales. The opposite of a fad. It sounds like you're not doing a very good job of reading the trend of sales beyond the size of the number being cited. Hence why you're so caught up on "enormous success." This isn't about the size of the sales, it's about the growth year on end. The sales are increasing every year. Fads don't do that.
 

VirtualReach

Member
Jul 21, 2019
53
It's hella expensive.

I want to upgrade from my Rift to a wireless version but my goodness, the price point!

The quest is $399 and can play PCVR games wirelessly if you have a gaming PC. IMHO, there aren't enough Quest native games to justify a purchase without a gaming PC. The screen is also superior to the OG CV Rift.

Quest 2/3 is going to enter mainstream and sell console lvl numbers imo 30-80 million. Personally I hope the other companies overtake occulus because fuck facebook. Mark doesn't need to know what type of midget goat VR porn I watch :D
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
It made it through the rough phase with wired, heavy headsets with mediocre graphics and games that are just figuring out the tech. Everything will just get better and better.

I still believe VR will absolutely skyrocket in the coming decade. Especially when it becomes more common for porn, social media, and online shopping.
 

VirtualReach

Member
Jul 21, 2019
53
The questlink uses a USB cable. Stuff like VRidge don't work every well, the actual, official wireless modules for VR headsets, for example, use 60 ghz receivers and transmitters, way beyond what a normal router outputs.

Yes Link uses a cable but the wireless solutions (personally I use VR Desktop) are more than adequate for most genres of games that don't require twitchy reflexes. Honestly even action(y) RPGs like skyrim run without major gameplay issues.

That said, the latency issues are definitely not ideal for certain types of games or if your home router is older. For instance, I can play multiplayer VR shooters with the Quest + VRDesktop wirelessly but I do notice that my performance will suffer and I find myself compensating for the delay a little bit. Not unplayable by any means but very far from competitive if that's your thing.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
you literally said people are trying to say VR is an enormous success are citing sales numbers. This is a topic about sales numbers, plenty of people are talking about sales numbers. Who are you talking about specifically? And if it's no one in this thread, that is a very weird, and antagonistic thing to bring up as a "but."

VR hasn't achieved that level of success in a year. It is achieving sustained, increasing sales. The opposite of a fad. It sounds like you're not doing a very good job of reading the trend of sales beyond the size of the number being cited. Hence why you're so caught up on "enormous success." This isn't about the size of the sales, it's about the growth year on end. The sales are increasing every year. Fads don't do that.

What you just said isn't even close to what I 'literally" just said.

First of all, I regulated what I said to "people who keep trying to say how VR is a huge success". That's a big difference from saying "people " in general. What I said is limiting it to a group of people who seem keen to throw numbers and figures around to try and claim VR is already a hugely successful market. What you claimed I said is a very open statement that's non-specific and broad.

Secondly, I said that they cite revenue and *not* sales numbers, because saying it made $2.1B in a year sounds a lot better than saying it sold 5 million headsets in a year, which is a lot smaller that peripherals such as Kinect or Wii Fit were selling.

Not everyone who is a proponent for VR is saying it's a huge success. You yourself just said it's not an enormous success yet. It's currently a niche that's steadily growing.Currently its growth is steady. I personally said I don't think it's a fad, that doesn't mean sales couldn't putter out and slow. Currently it is doing well, but that's a far cry from establishing itself as a mainstream technology.

EDIT: In addition the article cites the introduction of the Quest as the reason for increasing revenue. With consoles, there is largely a few set models for years and most sales are going to new adopters. With VR sales, due to the variety and constant introduction of new models, I imagine there's a larger overlap in people who bought in previous years and are upgrading, verses purely new adopters.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
That's a big difference from saying "people " in general. What I said is limiting it to a group of people who seem keen to throw numbers and figures around to try and claim VR is already a hugely successful market. What you claimed I said is a very open statement that's non-specific and broad.

Do you know what a strawman is?
 

Stef

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,463
Rome, Italy, Planet Earth
If this includes PSVR and is related to 5/6 years it is actually not that impressive, also considering that it includes at least one entire concept of "generation", PC-side (people moving from an old to a new headset) for a percentage of users.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,783
If this includes PSVR and is related to 5/6 years it is actually not that impressive, also considering that it includes at least one entire concept of "generation", PC-side (people moving from an old to a new headset) for a percentage of users.

its just for this year (2019)
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
Do you know what a strawman is?
Yes. I apologize I didn't get to the rest of your post. I wasn't addressing anyone in this thread, just the article that the thread is about. It's far from the only article I have seen that talks about VR and cites revenue rather than hardware sold.

There is nothing in the definition of a fad that necessitates strong sales numbers. Something like Google Glass could be defined as a fad despite never being widely available as a consumer product.

The article makes claims like "we can put to rest any notion of VR being a fad" and "Any notion of VR being a fad or a small market opportunity is quickly fading, if it hasn't already disappeared outright "

I am saying that while I don't think it is a fad, what they are saying is not true because it's far from a large success yet. It is seeing steady growth, but that can change easily. Tech can be unpredictable. In a year's time VR could see 100% growth and then in two year's time sales could be 50% of what they are today. VR is seeing steady growth, but sales aren't at a point where they're strong and steady enough for it to be cemented as a regular mainstream product. Consumers are fickle and could move onto something else in a very short period of time.

I am also saying that when some people make claims about VR being a big success, they often cite revenue . . .as is done in this article. Saying VR made $2.1B sounds better than saying they sold 5M headsets. VR is currently a moderate success with steady growth. That's great, and about what I would expect given where the technology currently is. However it doesn't put to rest the fact that VR could still end up being looking back upon as a fad.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,783
Yes. I apologize I didn't get to the rest of your post. I wasn't addressing anyone in this thread, just the article that the thread is about. It's far from the only article I have seen that talks about VR and cites revenue rather than hardware sold.

There is nothing in the definition of a fad that necessitates strong sales numbers. Something like Google Glass could be defined as a fad despite never being widely available as a consumer product.

The article makes claims like "we can put to rest any notion of VR being a fad" and "Any notion of VR being a fad or a small market opportunity is quickly fading, if it hasn't already disappeared outright "

I am saying that while I don't think it is a fad, what they are saying is not true because it's far from a large success yet. It is seeing steady growth, but that can change easily. Tech can be unpredictable. In a year's time VR could see 100% growth and then in two year's time sales could be 50% of what they are today. VR is seeing steady growth, but sales aren't at a point where they're strong and steady enough for it to be cemented as a regular mainstream product. Consumers are fickle and could move onto something else in a very short period of time.

I am also saying that when some people make claims about VR being a big success, they often cite revenue . . .as is done in this article. Saying VR made $2.1B sounds better than saying they sold 5M headsets. VR is currently a moderate success with steady growth. That's great, and about what I would expect given where the technology currently is. However it doesn't put to rest the fact that VR could still end up being looking back upon as a fad.

Conceptually though, VR has been a dream/desire for the decades - and as the technology gets more transparent to use, I really can't see that being disrupted by a competing tech in any meaningful way. So the outlook is looking very good, especially with the release of the Quest. I agree that sales revenue doesn't tell you anything by itself.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
Conceptually though, VR has been a dream/desire for the decades - and as the technology gets more transparent to use, I really can't see that being disrupted by a competing tech in any meaningful way. So the outlook is looking very good, especially with the release of the Quest. I agree that sales revenue doesn't tell you anything by itself.
It's very weird when misinformed people say that VR will die out and be replaced by something else, because nothing else can replace VR as it's a full unique medium of itself that even stands as a meta medium, being able to encapsulate all other mediums unto itself. That's as final as things get, and why nothing can replace it regardless of how advanced technology gets.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
I do wonder when Sony will start talking about PSVR2. It's great they are still pushing software but there really needs to be a larger push with AAA game support if they really want to crack the market open. Valve can because they don't need the money and can take risks.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I do wonder when Sony will start talking about PSVR2. It's great they are still pushing software but there really needs to be a larger push with AAA game support if they really want to crack the market open. Valve can because they don't need the money and can take risks.
I think I read that they are going to wait on PSVR2 until the PS5 is firmly entrenched. They want to concentrate on one hardware platform at a time.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
I am curious to see if someone can find what markets VR is expanding into. Gaming is just one part of VR, but I know I have seen VR in the medical field.
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
I do wonder when Sony will start talking about PSVR2. It's great they are still pushing software but there really needs to be a larger push with AAA game support if they really want to crack the market open. Valve can because they don't need the money and can take risks.

I would hope with the power of next gen, + hopefully a way better headset, PSVR2 can be a game changer for vR, but at one condition. The key condition would be Sony to offer powerful tools to help devs implement VR in their games without too much struggle, so we have VR mode for the full game in a confortable way for big titles.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
I am curious to see if someone can find what markets VR is expanding into. Gaming is just one part of VR, but I know I have seen VR in the medical field.
Medical field for sure, in a variety of different ways. Product design, architecture design, training, neuroscience research are all fields that VR is being used more and more in.

Over the 2020s, VR will show it's true potential in telepresence, socialization, and spatial computing, which could all be huge markets on their own.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
I'm really glad to see this. Here's hoping they continue to iterate on more standalone options like the Quest. I think that is the future of the VR medium.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
Microsoft's stance really perplexed me. Most of their decisions these past few years have pushed me to other platforms and devices. For example, I was a huge Xbox and Xbox 360 user. With digital purchases being 80 percent of my library, launching Xbox One with zero digital backward-compatibility opened the door for my initiation into the PlayStation ecosystem.

Subsequent Microsoft decisions like killing Kinect 2.0 despite its VR potential were also shocking. My last hope for getting into Xbox One was the early relationship between Microsoft and Oculus. Everyone thought that eventually, INEVITABLY, Xbox One would have some type of Native VR support at most, Rift integration at least. With Kinect 2.0 seeming a possible console based answer to external cameras, and backdoor buzz about Halo and Holo Lens exciting journalists, not only was it disappointing that nothing VR related came of it, but that Microsoft killed any chance of an immediate VR future by pasturing the Kinect, ending the partnership, and announcing that the future hardware had NO VR plans at all.

This pretty much sold me the PSVR, then eventually the QUEST, and I haven't been happier.
The rising success and adoption of VR is encouraging!
Yea, it does seem like Microsoft is interested in progressing games only in terms of power, BC, and a lite form of hardware agnosticism. But little mention has been made by them as far as increasing the interactivity itself. As far as we know, Series X will be the only game-focused platform on the market without motion controls in any capacity. Motion controls, let alone VR, should be an option for those that want it.

Every non-Microsoft console and handheld since the Wii has supported at least gyro controls. I don't understand why they wouldn't at least want parity with rival systems. The lack of any really progress on that front made the Xbox One family the first Xbox system I did not purchase despite thinking there was a lot of cool possibilities with kinect.
 

TrashHeap64

Member
Dec 7, 2017
1,685
Austin, TX
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wwm0nkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,637
LOVE my Quest, had a few friends try it out and done went out to buy one right after lol
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I am curious to see if someone can find what markets VR is expanding into. Gaming is just one part of VR, but I know I have seen VR in the medical field.
I've worked on a VR driving simulator for an automotive company that wanted to use it for research studies, allowing them to experiment with different ways of communicating information with the driver, and see how drivers will react in different driving scenarios.
 

Timu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,737
I never understood why some people call VR a fad. It's pretty niche and has been slowly growing each year. Fads typically explode onto the market and drop off. Opposite here. Not to mention VR has been around for a long time.

Glad to hear its growing. Means more quality software in the future.
Yep, and Half Life Alyx should be one of the games to push it even further.
 

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,148
I am curious to see if someone can find what markets VR is expanding into. Gaming is just one part of VR, but I know I have seen VR in the medical field.

Heh. One of the coolest features of VR that I've personally used (and just used, in fact) was giving a presentation in VR to a virtual audience. Very helpful for getting the atmosphere down for the real thing.
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,671
I really, honestly don't like the halo style headset at all. My favorite is still the Vive Deluxe Audio Strap, which you wear like a welder's mask. It cradles the back of your scull, then the headset hinges forward onto your face. The headset itself is rigid and sturdy, not velcro.
Yeah I'm on team deluxe audio strap too. I put vr cover face plate cushion on my Vive with vr cover deluxe audio strap cushion in too and the combo has increased the comfort on my Vive. Too bad HTC discontinued it. It's the best product they put out.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
8,086
California
Hope Half Life Alyx hits it out the park, really looking forward to it and will further expand VR. Wonder if Valve will do a portable?
It will and this will be the boost VR needed. I think it's going to change VR forever.

I got a Rift S roughly 4 months ago. I love it so much that I am looking to buy an Index when they are available again.

Also, as much as a lot hate to admit it, we can credit Facebook for the boost as well.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,851
Fantastic news.

The market is growing and is only going to become more prominent as the new generation arrives. Looking forward to seeing how the tech progresses and especially how Sony approaches the next generation of headset. It's already easily the most comfortable they just need to give it features that many people want such as foveated rendering, higher resolution, wireless and new controllers.

Yea, it does seem like Microsoft is interested in progressing games only in terms of power, BC, and a lite form of hardware agnosticism. But little mention has been made by them as far as increasing the interactivity itself. As far as we know, Series X will be the only game-focused platform on the market without motion controls in any capacity. Motion controls, let alone VR, should be an option for those that want it.

Every non-Microsoft console and handheld since the Wii has supported at least gyro controls. I don't understand why they wouldn't at least want parity with rival systems. The lack of any really progress on that front made the Xbox One family the first Xbox system I did not purchase despite thinking there was a lot of cool possibilities with kinect.
I believed Microsoft cared about innovation in the gameplay space a few years ago. I would have expected them to be one of the companies to be on the frontier of this medium, but admitting they're not focused on it for their new console for the second time running is so perplexing. Especially when they've teased it and retracted their intentions twice already for the XB1. It feels like they're worried that focusing on motion control based peripherals for the Series X will somehow handicap them for the generation when in fact it was their execution with Kinect and its software that caused problems.
 
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