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Will Gaben's Index bidding slay thy Forum?

  • You're grasping at straws, bub. Little tiny made-for-Trump's hands sized straws.

    Votes: 176 57.0%
  • Hey, it could happen.

    Votes: 133 43.0%

  • Total voters
    309

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,731
Setting aside the existing HL red flags (departure of many Half-Life vets, disastrous engine and game development since Portal 2, not a followup to Episode 2), how is a Half-Life VR going to be true to form unless this Index thing solves so many of the deep, underlying issues with simulator sickness? Because I'm fearing the loss of many of the series staples. Vehicles? Only if they're the slow, county fair kind. Verticality? Hah. Jumping puzzles? Lol. Underwater disorientation? Vents? Circle-strafing and jumping your way through firefights? Barnacles? How much of a Half-Life game is possible here?
 

lazerfox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,326
Switzerland
Why would they expect a console VR version ? Or even a console version to begin with ?
Judging from the latest Half-Life 3 thread, some people feel like Valve owes them some kind of closure to the story which is silly.

Also some PSVR owners might not realize right away that Half-Life VR wouldn't work on it due to hardware limitations.

Personally I'm expecting an Orange Box 2 of sorts - just tailored for VR experiences.
I'd love that.
 
OP
OP
Quample

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,234
Cincinnati, OH
Setting aside the existing HL red flags (departure of many Half-Life vets, disastrous engine and game development since Portal 2, not a followup to Episode 2), how is a Half-Life VR going to be true to form unless this Index thing solves so many of the deep, underlying issues with simulator sickness? Because I'm fearing the loss of many of the series staples. Vehicles? Only if they're the slow, county fair kind. Verticality? Hah. Jumping puzzles? Lol. Underwater disorientation? Vents? Circle-strafing and jumping your way through firefights? Barnacles? How much of a Half-Life game is possible here?

While you have a point about motion sickness, much of what you mentioned isn't a problem. Driving can work great in VR, standard locomotion does have to be fairly slow, although developers have made sprinting work, you just can't turn/strafe too much at the same time which is kind of realistic. Climbing can be done perfectly well in VR, and wouldn't you trade strafey jumpy firefights for actually holding weapons and aiming like you would in real life? Check out Boneworks, because thats likely what it will be like. A VR Half Life doesn't have to be true to form mechanically, in fact it can't be. VR mechanics are much more life-like. Puzzle sections will be insanely cooler because of that too if you ask me.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,731
While you have a point about motion sickness, much of what you mentioned isn't a problem. Driving can work great in VR, standard locomotion does have to be fairly slow, although developers have made sprinting work, you just can't turn/strafe at the same time which is kind of realistic. Climbing can be done perfectly well in VR, and wouldn't you trade strafey jumpy firefights for actually holding weapons and aiming like you would in real life? Check out Boneworks, because thats likely what it will be like.
I'll check out Boneworks, thanks. I just fear giving everyone the Airboat motion sickness would be the kiss of death, and Valve can be very eager to throw things out.
 

Flounder

Member
Oct 28, 2017
188
Setting aside the existing HL red flags (departure of many Half-Life vets, disastrous engine and game development since Portal 2, not a followup to Episode 2), how is a Half-Life VR going to be true to form unless this Index thing solves so many of the deep, underlying issues with simulator sickness? Because I'm fearing the loss of many of the series staples. Vehicles? Only if they're the slow, county fair kind. Verticality? Hah. Jumping puzzles? Lol. Underwater disorientation? Vents? Circle-strafing and jumping your way through firefights? Barnacles? How much of a Half-Life game is possible here?

With regards to simulation sickness, this is obviously a very individual thing. I played Borderlands 2 VR for dozens of hours and it has all the things you mention (except underwater sections), it has very fast cars, lots of verticality (and very big falls!), jumping etc.. For me, I had zero problems with all comfort settings turned off. For those that do have issues, they can ease themselves in with all comfort settings on and then tweak them if/when they get acclimatised to it.
 
OP
OP
Quample

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,234
Cincinnati, OH
I'll check out Boneworks, thanks. I just fear giving everyone the Airboat motion sickness would be the kiss of death, and Valve can be very eager to throw things out.

Motion sickness definitely isn't fixed yet, but developers have figured out little tricks to mitigate it. A simple way to gauge your level of VR motion sickness resistance is comparing it to real life. If almost nothing makes you motion sick (boats, cars, rides) then you'll be fine for 95% of games out there. If you are prone to it, though, it could be a problem.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,783
I'll check out Boneworks, thanks. I just fear giving everyone the Airboat motion sickness would be the kiss of death, and Valve can be very eager to throw things out.

They're at the forefront of VR development, I trust that they know what works and what doesn't. Some things don't translate as well, but expect a new level of interactivity and design that'll make those older design tenets look archaic in comparison. Seriously, when you watch those Bonework demos you'll start seeing the potential.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
Motion sickness definitely isn't fixed yet, but developers have figured out little tricks to mitigate it. A simple way to gauge your level of motion sickness resistance is comparing it to real life. If almost nothing makes you motion sick (boats, cars, rides) then you'll be fine for 95% of games out there. If you are prone to it, though, it could be a problem.
I wouldn't say this is completely true. If I look down at my phone when in the passenger seat of a car for too long, I pay the price. I felt uneasy when I was on a boat in ireland. It's not too bad, but it absolutely happens to me. Meanwhile, I'm pretty much immune to VR sickness.
I have a freind who for which, this is reversed. Resistant to motion sickness in real life, hit hard in VR.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,731
Boneworks looks pretty sweet.

With regards to simulation sickness, this is obviously a very individual thing. I played Borderlands 2 VR for dozens of hours and it has all the things you mention (except underwater sections), it has very fast cars, lots of verticality (and very big falls!), jumping etc.. For me, I had zero problems with all comfort settings turned off. For those that do have issues, they can ease themselves in with all comfort settings on and then tweak them if/when they get acclimatised to it.
Motion sickness definitely isn't fixed yet, but developers have figured out little tricks to mitigate it. A simple way to gauge your level of VR motion sickness resistance is comparing it to real life. If almost nothing makes you motion sick (boats, cars, rides) then you'll be fine for 95% of games out there. If you are prone to it, though, it could be a problem.
That's good to know! There's also been a lot more women getting sick than men, any idea if that gap is also closing?
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Wonder if there will be any outrage if the next Half Life game is unveiled as a VR game.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,783
Wonder if there will be any outrage if the next Half Life game is unveiled as a VR game.
It'd certainly be the lowest selling Half Life game if nothing else.

As much as I like the Half Life games I'm not buying an expensive peripheral that often gives me motion sickness to play it but it'd be cool to see what Valve do with a full VR game. So I'm personally pretty torn on it I guess.
 

Deleted member 33597

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 17, 2017
366
Driving can work great in VR, standard locomotion does have to be fairly slow, although developers have made sprinting work, you just can't turn/strafe too much at the same time which is kind of realistic. Climbing can be done perfectly well in VR, and wouldn't you trade strafey jumpy firefights for actually holding weapons and aiming like you would in real life? Check out Boneworks, because thats likely what it will be like. A VR Half Life doesn't have to be true to form mechanically, in fact it can't be. VR mechanics are much more life-like. Puzzle sections will be insanely cooler because of that too if you ask me.
Honestly, your reassurances don't really say "Half-Life is possible in VR", they say "a Half-Life themed shooting gallery is possible in VR". The first game's tagline is "run, think, shoot, live". The games put you in the shoes of Gordon Freeman and send you on an interrupted, interconnected, mostly on-foot journey through a linear environment with some small puzzles, a lot of airvents, a fair amount of climbing and plenty of underwater sections. All of that is difficult to recreate in VR without major changes at the very least. Imagine the distances you walk in these games and now imagine having to move slow as hell through them.

I think Boneworks actually illustrates this the best - movement is slow, the main hook of the game so far is that you can use the Knuckles controllers for more precise actions with guns (with the obvious drawback that manually aiming and reloading and such will get tiresome in a full game), the environments are pretty wide to accommodate the inherent cumbersomeness of movement in VR and in general there's absolutely no speed to anything. It's slow and methodical. In other words, it's not Half-Life in the slightest. HL isn't a methodical, realistic shooter where you need to be able to flip a table on its side for cover, shoot around corners or sneak around to avoid being detected, but that's exactly what VR first person shooters seem to be going for out of necessity - fast movement and mobility just doesn't work.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,950
It's been so long... Hard to care right now, but we'll see how I feel when they show it off.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,731
They're at the forefront of VR development, I trust that they know what works and what doesn't. Some things don't translate as well, but expect a new level of interactivity and design that'll make those older design tenets look archaic in comparison. Seriously, when you watch those Bonework demos you'll start seeing the potential.
On the other hand, I would think a lot of verticality and running and jumping would be even better in VR if it doesn't make people sick. It'd be a shame to lose that in a HL game.
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
20,068
So this is it huh....

Its finally happened....

RICOCHET: VR
 

Willin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,098
User Warned: Trolling.
Valve, I'm begging you PLEASE make Half Life 3 VR exclusive. I want the PC Master Race community to burn itself to the ground.
 
OP
OP
Quample

Quample

Member
Dec 23, 2017
3,234
Cincinnati, OH
Honestly, your reassurances don't really say "Half-Life is possible in VR", they say "a Half-Life themed shooting gallery is possible in VR". The first game's tagline is "run, think, shoot, live". The games put you in the shoes of Gordon Freeman and send you on an interrupted, interconnected, mostly on-foot journey through a linear environment with some small puzzles, a lot of airvents, a fair amount of climbing and plenty of underwater sections. All of that is difficult to recreate in VR without major changes at the very least. Imagine the distances you walk in these games and now imagine having to move slow as hell through them.

I think Boneworks actually illustrates this the best - movement is slow, the main hook of the game so far is that you can use the Knuckles controllers for more precise actions with guns (with the obvious drawback that manually aiming and reloading and such will get tiresome in a full game), the environments are pretty wide to accommodate the inherent cumbersomeness of movement in VR and in general there's absolutely no speed to anything. It's slow and methodical. In other words, it's not Half-Life in the slightest. HL isn't a methodical, realistic shooter where you need to be able to flip a table on its side for cover, shoot around corners or sneak around to avoid being detected, but that's exactly what VR first person shooters seem to be going for out of necessity - fast movement and mobility just doesn't work.



Granted this game requires arm movement, but even with joystick movement VR movement doesn't have to be slow. Slower? Maybe.

Still, I get your point that it may not retain the flow of Half Life, but look at a game like Doom 2016. It's definitely slower paced than the original Doom, but it works. And those are both flat screen games. VR games can't retain that original feel; control schemes are fundamentally different. It's just a strange argument to me...like don't you want to BE Gordon Freeman? Because VR will let you get a lot closer.

Should have clarified your title. Them revealing more specs on Wednesday was explicitly confirmed by Valve.

Title was changed by mods, the original was way less informative, lol. It was "there is a 1% chance era will go down on wednesday".
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,414
It'd certainly be the lowest selling Half Life game if nothing else.

As much as I like the Half Life games I'm not buying an expensive peripheral that often gives me motion sickness to play it but it'd be cool to see what Valve do with a full VR game. So I'm personally pretty torn on it I guess.

Valve is surely aware of the lesser sales potential as a VR only game.
 

Deleted member 3196

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
Why would they expect a console VR version ? Or even a console version to begin with ?
Some people ask for VR games to have a "no VR" mode (lots of this with Astro Bot - people just didn't get that VR is the reason that game is so brilliant), so there are plenty of people in the world who completely miss the point.
 

Mr Swine

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,079
Sweden
Oct 26, 2017
2,780
Motion sickness definitely isn't fixed yet, but developers have figured out little tricks to mitigate it. A simple way to gauge your level of VR motion sickness resistance is comparing it to real life. If almost nothing makes you motion sick (boats, cars, rides) then you'll be fine for 95% of games out there. If you are prone to it, though, it could be a problem.

There are people who get sick with normal FPS games, but I never do, even with weird fovs. On the other hand I get sick with 'real' movement (cars in mountain roads) so I wonder if I would be affected by VR
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
Wonder if there will be any outrage if the next Half Life game is unveiled as a VR game.

Of course there will be. Lot's of people hate VR with a passion and Half-Life is an all time classic.

I'm just excited to see what Valve do with VR, don't really care if it's Half-Life or something else.
 

Deleted member 9305

Oct 26, 2017
4,064
Half-Life or Portal VR would be much appreciated.
 

abracadaver

Banned
Nov 30, 2017
1,469
Half-life VR has been comfirmed for ages but it's not done by Valve

https://www.reddit.com/r/hlvr/

A month ago the devs didn't even have knuckles yet so it can't be a surprise release. It might as well be dead by now as they haven't shown any updates or progress in the last 2 years.
 

Kalamour

Member
Oct 25, 2017
328
Half-life VR has been comfirmed for ages but it's not done by Valve

https://www.reddit.com/r/hlvr/

A month ago the devs didn't even have knuckles yet so it can't be a surprise release. It might as well be dead by now as they haven't shown any updates or progress in the last 2 years.

Joke post? We are not talking about a mod here. The speculation is based on « hlvr » appearing regularly since 2016 (iirc) in source 2 code. So valve has been working on something called hlvr for a few years now. It could be nothing, but most (rightfully imo) think it could be related to 1 of the 3 vr full games Valve is working on.
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
Honestly, your reassurances don't really say "Half-Life is possible in VR", they say "a Half-Life themed shooting gallery is possible in VR". The first game's tagline is "run, think, shoot, live". The games put you in the shoes of Gordon Freeman and send you on an interrupted, interconnected, mostly on-foot journey through a linear environment with some small puzzles, a lot of airvents, a fair amount of climbing and plenty of underwater sections. All of that is difficult to recreate in VR without major changes at the very least. Imagine the distances you walk in these games and now imagine having to move slow as hell through them.

I think Boneworks actually illustrates this the best - movement is slow, the main hook of the game so far is that you can use the Knuckles controllers for more precise actions with guns (with the obvious drawback that manually aiming and reloading and such will get tiresome in a full game), the environments are pretty wide to accommodate the inherent cumbersomeness of movement in VR and in general there's absolutely no speed to anything. It's slow and methodical. In other words, it's not Half-Life in the slightest. HL isn't a methodical, realistic shooter where you need to be able to flip a table on its side for cover, shoot around corners or sneak around to avoid being detected, but that's exactly what VR first person shooters seem to be going for out of necessity - fast movement and mobility just doesn't work.
Fast movement works just fine. Play some VR games and you'll see.
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,417
California
Do you suppose that whatever games they come out with could work with a Vive as well? Valve doesn't seem the type to really force say, knuckles exclusivity unless they were sort of forced due to game mechanics.
 

Contraband

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,042
Hannah, Montana
It'd certainly be the lowest selling Half Life game if nothing else.

As much as I like the Half Life games I'm not buying an expensive peripheral that often gives me motion sickness to play it but it'd be cool to see what Valve do with a full VR game. So I'm personally pretty torn on it I guess.

The current rumor is that the new titles Valve has been working on, will be 2D & VR enabled. Allowing "hybrid" play with each other, as well.

One of them is expected to be MP focused (CS, Go, TF, etc.).
 

DarthBuzzard

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
5,122
The current rumor is that the new titles Valve has been working on, will be 2D & VR enabled. Allowing "hybrid" play with each other, as well.

One of them is expected to be MP focused (CS, Go, TF, etc.).
Only one of them is rumored to be co-op. There's also very little to suggest that will happen in the first place as it comes from game ideas at Valve that ValveNewsNetwork heard about more than a year ago. Since then, there hasn't been anything else to go off.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I'll check out Boneworks, thanks. I just fear giving everyone the Airboat motion sickness would be the kiss of death, and Valve can be very eager to throw things out.
The airboat is the one thing that wouldn't give everyone motion sickness. Vehicles are one of the least VR-sickness-inducing pieces of VR gameplay, because your brain has already gotten used to riding in vehicles, and the vehicle is a static point of reference. Meaning, the vehicle may be moving fast, but your brain doesn't think *you* are moving fast, because the parts of the vehicle you see aren't moving relative to you. First person shooters that use the classic circle-strafe and movement faster than a human moves, those are what are highly likely to get many people sick. Methods have been discovered to improve that, but it's still really one of the worst things you can do in VR is a classic first-person shooter.

That isn't to say a Half Life VR game isn't possible - I mean, Doom VFR's controls work great (on PC, not PSVR). They just have to be designed a bit different. Doom works because you don't smoothly move around in the game - you can tap to warp forward a few feet in the direction you are facing, and thus use that to dash around, or you can hold a button, point where you want to go, and teleport to a specific point. Then once you are there you can stand around and spin around (physically), shooting in all directions.