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PC Gamer: All your Warcraft 3: Reforged custom games belong exclusively to Blizzard
- Thread starter Lukar
- Start date
And with a swift move, they completely killed the Warcraft 3 custom maps scene. Congratulation Activision Blizzard, you guys did it.
It has been known for a while, but if anyone had any doubt, this confirms it: Blizzard is dead. Right now, it is a soulless shell focused only in having big profits, even if it means giving a middle finger to human rights.
It has been known for a while, but if anyone had any doubt, this confirms it: Blizzard is dead. Right now, it is a soulless shell focused only in having big profits, even if it means giving a middle finger to human rights.
It's funny and emblematic of Blizzard transitioning from a company that makes cool things and fosters a creative spirit to one that owns a lot of valuable things and wants to protect them. It's also shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted, since Warcraft 3 already spawned an entire genre decades ago. That's not gonna happen again with this remaster.
SC2 custom maps were harder to play since they flipped around how you joined games. Instead of browsing available games, you had to select a map and queue up to be matched with other people who also wanted to play it. Sounds reasonable, but it meant that for most maps you would just never get matched into a game and you couldn't tell what maps other people were actually playing. And if you made your own map, it was really hard to get other people to play it.
Then again I only really tried to play SC2 custom maps in the WOL days. Maybe it got better in the expansions.
SC2 custom maps were harder to play since they flipped around how you joined games. Instead of browsing available games, you had to select a map and queue up to be matched with other people who also wanted to play it. Sounds reasonable, but it meant that for most maps you would just never get matched into a game and you couldn't tell what maps other people were actually playing. And if you made your own map, it was really hard to get other people to play it.
Then again I only really tried to play SC2 custom maps in the WOL days. Maybe it got better in the expansions.
The remaster is whatever but this is trash. Just think about all the things that grew it out of the original game.
EA is so much more humane than ActiBliz, it ain´t even funny. I played Blizzard games since Diablo 1 and WC2. The last few years really sting. A tough e-sports moment as they say. The memes though:
Edit: StarCraft: Remastered was ok in my eyes but I have no interest in Diablo 1/2 Re-whatever. That brand took one hit too many to mess with it´s past.
EA is so much more humane than ActiBliz, it ain´t even funny. I played Blizzard games since Diablo 1 and WC2. The last few years really sting. A tough e-sports moment as they say. The memes though:
Edit: StarCraft: Remastered was ok in my eyes but I have no interest in Diablo 1/2 Re-whatever. That brand took one hit too many to mess with it´s past.
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Considering Unreal Engine 4 is free until you start making money from your projects, this policy is an absolute non-starter.
this is the exact opposite of the policy they should have gone with if they wanted anything cool to happen. unfortunate how blind they are
I saw this was a thing in an article, and I was kinda stunned to see that Blizzard was basically kneecapping the potential of its custom games like this. Like hell anyone would want to create custom games of their own in WCIII if Blizzard could just swoop in and take popular ideas for itself.
Valve has a history of recruiting modders and folks making interesting game concepts, hence how the likes of Counter-Strike and Team Fortress became standalone games and Portal (along with Portal 2's gel mechanics) got made in the first place, Valve recruiting IceFrog to remake DOTA as a brand new game made sense for them. Blizzard never capitalized on the popularity of DOTA when it was a ridiculously popular custom game mode, and cried foul when Valve took the initiative, despite the fact that long Blizzard had its chance and Riot had already made a standalone DOTA ripoff as well that had taken off. (I personally consider "MOBAs" to be incredibly overrated as a "genre" and find their popularity inexplicable, but whatever floats people's boats, I guess?)
Valve has a history of recruiting modders and folks making interesting game concepts, hence how the likes of Counter-Strike and Team Fortress became standalone games and Portal (along with Portal 2's gel mechanics) got made in the first place, Valve recruiting IceFrog to remake DOTA as a brand new game made sense for them. Blizzard never capitalized on the popularity of DOTA when it was a ridiculously popular custom game mode, and cried foul when Valve took the initiative, despite the fact that long Blizzard had its chance and Riot had already made a standalone DOTA ripoff as well that had taken off. (I personally consider "MOBAs" to be incredibly overrated as a "genre" and find their popularity inexplicable, but whatever floats people's boats, I guess?)
Yeah, Blizzard was far too slow to capitalize on a new subgenre and lost out badly. Blizzard All-Stars was neat in concept, but it was also too late.
I'm having troubles understanding why this is such a huge deal? When I went to university, everything that I created there, whether it was for a class or personal was owned by the school. The same can be said for my workplace, anything I create or if I use any of their tools to create something they also own it. Isn't that pretty standard? So if I created something in Reforged's custom map maker I would expect that Blizzard would own it.
It's a huge deal because it wasn't that way until now. Like imagine if something like Unreal or Unity suddenly wrote "we own the rights to all future games made with our engine".
MOBAs, Survival Games, Battle Royales and a bunch of other genres probably wouldn't exist(or at least wouldn't exist as they do today) if every company did the same shit as Blizzard is doing now
I have a couple of observations on this.
First, these sorts of provisions are self-defeating because they kill the mod community before it even has a chance to form. This goes double when your product is crap (see: WC3 Reforged).
Second, the enforceability of these provisions is highly dubious and even if it wasn't I really doubt its effectiveness in preventing a DotA-like situation except as a scare tactic. Blizzard losing control of DotA had nothing at all to do with the legal rights (or lack thereof) that Blizzard had in the map and everything to do with the design being generic enough that imitators who'd figured out a way to monetize the product could take over quickly (see: LoL). Perhaps Valve's product couldn't have been named "DotA 2" but who cares? Blizzard lost that particular fight because of their failure to strike while the iron was hot, not because of bad contract drafting.
First, these sorts of provisions are self-defeating because they kill the mod community before it even has a chance to form. This goes double when your product is crap (see: WC3 Reforged).
Second, the enforceability of these provisions is highly dubious and even if it wasn't I really doubt its effectiveness in preventing a DotA-like situation except as a scare tactic. Blizzard losing control of DotA had nothing at all to do with the legal rights (or lack thereof) that Blizzard had in the map and everything to do with the design being generic enough that imitators who'd figured out a way to monetize the product could take over quickly (see: LoL). Perhaps Valve's product couldn't have been named "DotA 2" but who cares? Blizzard lost that particular fight because of their failure to strike while the iron was hot, not because of bad contract drafting.
Thank god blizz was so stupid about dota. Dota 2 has been an amazing game esports wise and game wise something I don't believe blizzard would have gotten right.
Their whole ethos on balancing is honestly just trash and after all this time it's pretty clear that brood war was a huge fluke.
Their whole ethos on balancing is honestly just trash and after all this time it's pretty clear that brood war was a huge fluke.
It is not a big deal. This is standard legal protection for the company.
But people make it a big deal because it fits their agendas and makes them money via videos, social media, that sort of stuff.
Negativity sells more than being a reasonable human being.
Suppose this had been in effect for Warcraft 3 when Dota was big. This wouldn't have stopped LoL or even Heroes of Newerth (which was a direct mechanical copy of Dota with new assets/branding), but it would mean that Valve couldn't do Dota 2, which used the same characters (albeit with new assets, and I believe some tweaks in cases where the original Dota was infringing others' copyrights eg Lina Inverse) and the Dota branding.
Branding matters, and the fact that Valve had the Dota brand was part of why they succeeded where others failed.
You're right, but it is a huge deal because it's not standard in the video game world, and it actively hampers people from creating maps/mods. And just because it's standard in other aspects of our lives, doesn't mean it should be expected in others, that's why Capitalism is so fucked up nowadays.
Imagine if this was a thing starting in the 90's.
We would have never had:
Counter-Strike
PUBG
Fortnite
DayZ
Killing Floor
League of Legends
DOTA 1/2
Team Fortress
Garry's Mod
Modern Call of Duty/Battlefield (Arguably)
Or, we would have had their "Profit over quality" versions without the input of the original creator(s). Which could have been worse and ended up with the games not influencing future ones.
Even if you didn't care for those games you can't deny the impact that most of them had, especially in bringing new people into gaming.
The only people who would defend this are people who already working in big companies because it means that they can develop something that's already proven successful without having to even give the original developer a thank you. Let alone some money.
And at the end of the day, that's all it comes down to, money money money.
Oh, no question.
Of course, the measures that Blizzard are taking here is basically going to ensure that no one will ever want to make the next DotA / PUBG /etc. in their games anymore.
No it is not pretty standard. Microsoft doesn't own the novel you write using word and windows. The hardware store doesn't own the deck you built with tools and materials you bought from them. A grocery store doesn't own the meal you create with ingredients you bought from them. Adobe doesn't own every image you edited with photoshop. The arts and crafts store doesn't own the painting you painted with brushes and pain you bought there. I really hope I don't have to go on. The standard is that the creator of tools and materials have no claim (or legal responsibility) on a work made from and with those tools and materials. It is only relatively recently that some corporations are trying to change that, and it's almost entirely confined to parts of the American tech industry,
It's not the same thing.
Your university funds your research for one. and it in turn is funded by the state. It's not like a private entity gets to use it for massive profits.
It's not the same as a company claiming it owns everything you do in their map creator. Microsoft doesn't own everything you do in MS office. Epic doesn't own everything you do in Unreal. etc.
Like, Blizzard owning dota or tower defense would be absolutely ludicrous. They did not come up with these concepts. They don't get to "own" them. Gaming would be much poorer today if the majority of companies handled modding/map creation like blizzard wants to.
I remember battlefield having a huge modding community, many of the things thought up by that community made their way in the main game. Then EA bought the biggest modding team, laid everyone off shortly after and locked down the engine soon after. Modding for BF is dead nowadays. And the games are worse for it.
Look at how say, Valve or even Bethestha handle modding/user created content and how much it enriches their games. You don't need to rob your community of it's ideas for it to benefit you. Just pay the people or let them profit of the stuff they make.
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You can read it here
USER GENERATED CONTENT. You may have the option to create content such as pictures, photographs, renderings, videos, animation, sounds, music, game play, game related materials, or other information ("User Material") through the Software. To the extent permitted by law, you grant SIE an irrevocable, transferrable, sublicensable, royalty-free and perpetual license and right to use, reproduce, distribute, display, perform, translate, transmit, publish, and prepare derivative works of your User Material in all media formats and by all distribution methods (now known or hereafter developed), throughout the universe, in connection with the Software and the business of SIE (and its partners, successors, and affiliates), for any purpose, including for promoting, advertising, selling, and re-distributing the Software (and derivative works thereof), without any further notice to you. In addition, you grant each user of the Software a non-exclusive, perpetual license to access your User Material through the Software consistent with your share and privacy settings, and to use, reproduce, distribute, display, perform, translate, transmit, publish, and prepare derivative works of your User Material as permitted by the functionality of the Software and PlayStation Network (subject to the terms of this agreement). No compensation will be paid to you or any third party with respect to the use of your User Material, as provided herein. You acknowledge that you have received good and valuable consideration from SIE for the license of the rights in your User Material. You hereby waive, to the extent permitted by law, all claims, including any moral or patrimonial rights, against SIE and its affiliates or any third party's use of the User Material. By creating, posting, streaming, transmitting or providing SIE any User Material, you represent and warrant that your User Material does not infringe on the intellectual property or other rights of any third party and is not obscene, defamatory, offensive or an advertisement or solicitation of business and you have the appropriate rights to use, create, post, distribute, transmit and provide User Material and to grant SIE the foregoing license. You must cooperate with SIE in resolving any dispute that may arise from your User Material.
These are some great examples that I didn't think about.
You are essentially paying Blizzard and using your time to make THEIR next game. It's like some fucked up unpaid internship.
They ain't mad about not owning DOTA because they think they could have made a more consumer-friendly game, that's for sure.
Why not give more of an explanation for why it isn't "a big deal," instead of posting one throwaway sentence about legal protection and then going straight into "everyone is an angry unreasonable fanboy just looking to get mad," rhetoric? Nobody's going to see your point if you're making wide-spread judges of character straight off the bat.
They got burnt by being too greedy. So the only response to that was to be even greedier in the future haha.
I don't know where are you from but I thought the same applied to Poland. But moral rights are more limited when it comes to computer programs. You remain author but you don't control what they could do with your work.
Blizzard had literally years to react to Dota and did nothing. They only got burned because of their own inaction
What a wide, terrible generalization. Might as well call everyone here who is complaining entitled.
The Blizzard I grew up loving is officially dead.
That new Diablo game is going to be...something else.
That new Diablo game is going to be...something else.
A number of genres exist in the form they do today due to the lack of policies like this.
This is only reasonable to someone who sides with corporate interests over individual creators and the rights to their creations.
People most likely make it a big deal, but because of fear that it will cripple the modding community and the creativity, that has brought us many great mods and and games based on them.
If these is standard legal protection, that Blizzard and other games uses, then it would be much more constructive for the discussion if you brought examples of that, rather then generalize about peoples intention in such a condescending way.
Imo, it goes further than that.
Blizzard didn't come up with dota. Eul, Icefrog and co did. And they went and got their money via League, HON and dota 2.
And that's entirely how it should be.
Blizzard even did have a go at the MOBA genre. So it's not like they lost their abilty to do anything.
Not sure why this is an issue. You are using their engine, their assists, their art, and all of their intellectual property. This is not. A development suite you are purchasing to develop a game.
You can still make that stuff, though. They cannot do anything if you, for example, make a mod for Warcraft 3 that becomes super popular, and then go on to make it into a separate game. :)
With these clauses, they are protecting their intellectual properties that you use in your mod. But if you do not use those in your actual standalone game, which you shouldn't do anyways because you would literally be stealing IP, you fully own the rights to creations.
Sounds like someone here has an agenda too.
Anyway, it doesn't matter really, most game developers looking to make the next best thing can use a variety of free game engines to do their thing. The days of the WC3 community coming out with tons of good game concepts is long over.
Not having gamer outrage is a great agenda to have, I would say! :)
It's not really outrage to see your favorite game developer swirl the toilet and want to talk to others about it. It sucks and it's not fun seeing Blizzard shit on.
I wouldn't be surprised if guinsoo asked blizzard for a " dota 2 " but they ignored it and got picked up by riot. Allstars was very popular but wc3 was extremely limited to do new things with.
It's so baffling to me that Blizzard completely missed this opportunity twice with icefrog too, they are so oblivious to their customers.
It kinda sucks seeing a dev say it for this game. I know gaming culture is extremely toxic to almost everyone but it really fucking sucks that a game that i bought in 2002 is suddenly "unplayable", stripped of features and heavily restricted its once amazing modding community.
Even your publisher that likes to push the profitability of its IP to an extreme with things like multiplayer passes, micro transaction with prices that make me puke ( a single char in star wars galaxy of heroes costs 400-700€; legendary ones can cost 1000s€;) hasn't ever forced a limitation on an old game.
When blizzard is doing something that even EA hasn't even tried, it's fucked up.