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Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Then you didnt read the thread
God forbid I talk about the wider discourse in a topical thread and not just what's gone on in the thread (but even this thread isn't free of expression of relief, however tentative). Not even a call out of era writ large, this shit is everywhere. I'm not going to crap on people for looking for a way out, but I don't think pushing Reade out of the way to do it is good. Full hearing of the facts for as long as it takes.

"Attacking Reade's credibility to assuage what is clearly a lot of tortured consciences". You believe Reade's story is credible, so you're assuming others also believe it's credible but are simply denying it to themselves to assuage their own guilt. I think that's a projection of how *you* would assuage your guilt. I personally don't feel that way. I believed Tara at the start, and as I learned more about her story it became clear why many on the left were skeptical. I don't like Biden and my pick was Bernie, but I think I need to consider this allegation fairly the way I would consider it against anyone else, and I don't think it's fair for me to reach a concrete conclusion based on the facts that we currently have.
The projection claim fall flat here because I can tell you, horse's mouth, how my conscience was assuaged. Odds are Biden preyed on Tara Read, yet is still a completely justifiable defensive choice over the crypto-fash scum in there right now, yet Tara Reade is still owed her full hearing until every avenue is exhausted, for as long as it takes, no matter how politically explosive. I'd vote for the bastard if I could and still advocate for Reade to get that full hearing without the collective we beginning rumblings about pushing her out. The whole thing is ugly.

Pointing out holes or lies in Reade's story isn't trashing, it's presenting a full story.
The full story isn't out, and it certainly isn't liable to be so long as there's political expediency to be had in the Biden camp in wrapping this controversy up as soon as possible, or, if you're the Trump camp, in dragging it out and muddying the waters and then disposing of it as soon as it's no longer useful. Neither strike me as being fair handlers, and that's without the plain reckoning that even setting aside the circumstances of the accused running to be President, the likelihood that this was already going to take years to pursue to its end.
 

Rehynn

Banned
Feb 14, 2018
737
So, I haven't really talked about this before, but it seems relevant to the discussion here.

Please note that I fully acknowledge that Biden's over-physicality can be very inappropriate, and has certainly made some people feel uncomfortable. Even I have had physical contact with the man that made me uncomfortable. It's not "OK", and his resistance to adjust his behavior on this front for a long time (he seems to be doing at least somewhat better now) is not a a good look.

But, all that said, I think there is some context that those from the outside that see examples of this on video or wherever might not be aware of, and which somewhat explains why most of those who interact with Biden in person don't view these actions as sexual in nature.
  • Biden is old. Very old, and as part of that he has old-fashioned instincts on things like personal space that many people of his generation continue to hold. And not only is he old, Biden was elected to the US Senate before he turned 30. That means, for a very large part of his career, the political term "kissing babies" was not simply an expression. It was actually a pretty core element of American politics, to the point where it was considered an honor by many parents for politicians to physically kiss babies brought to them, and not just babies. This to some extent included children, teenagers, and sometimes even adults. It wasn't "weird" in American politics for this to happen, even if the kids weren't into it. And sometimes this is still asked for today, although on a much, much reduced scale, and even then is rarely granted by most politicians.
  • Secondly, Biden was deeply, deeply affected by the death of his first wife and daughter. I have personally heard him talk a lot about how that experience changed him, and how one of his biggest takeaways was the need to consistently, and often physically, show people that they are appreciated, cared about, and loved. That's one of the core reason he traveled from Delaware to DC almost every day as a Senator, he feels it's important to physically be a presence in the lives of the people he cares about. And so he hugs and sometimes kisses (on the cheek, forehead, or head) both men and women around him as a sign of what is overwhelmingly considered among his staff and acquaintances to be platonic but genuine and deep affection.
  • Lastly, a lot of the people he works with and has met throughout his entire career and to this day give him incredibly positive feedback when he engages with them physically. "Biden hugs" have, in the vast majority of my personal experience and accounts given to me, been considered deeply comforting, and even something to look forward to. They do, very often, make people feel better, make people feel like they have done a good job, are valued, and are cared about. He has received far, far more enthusiastic responses to this practice in his life than negative ones.
Again, I don't meant this to downplay the basic inappropriateness of some of his actions, or minimize the impact he has had on those who have been understandably made uncomfortable or worse by this aspect of his character. I am simply trying to provide better context for how Biden is understood by those around him, and why people from the outside looking in might not be able to understand why their impression of what he does does not often line up with most firsthand accounts.

Thank you for sharing this. The second point has been on my mind a lot -- although obviously from a different perspective from yours -- when I've seen people post those GIFs. As you said, this does not undo or delegitimize the discomfort that people have experienced as a result of his behavior, but I'm not sure many people take into account the loss he has experienced when judging his motivations. A couple years back I stumbled upon a speech Biden gave in front of Gold Star families about grief, and I've since thought about it as much as any speech by a politician in recent memory. It does not really relate to the Reade allegations, but since this thread is in many ways about Biden's character, I hope it's OK to post it here -- and definitely let me know if it isn't:

 
Last edited:

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
I think she has said that Biden assaulted her during the 90s no doubt.
Her mom, neighbor and court documents do paint a picture of something very serious going down that would fit the definition of rape.
Now is that 100% proof? But I do view it as contemporaneous evidence that supports that she did indeed tell her friends and family.

This article does say something about it but it isn't the full awesome bullet people think it is.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
729
The projection claim fall flat here because I can tell you, horse's mouth, how my conscience was assuaged. Odds are Biden preyed on Tara Read, yet is still a completely justifiable defensive choice over the crypto-fash scum in there right now, yet Tara Reade is still owed her full hearing until every avenue is exhausted, for as long as it takes, no matter how politically explosive. I'd vote for the bastard if I could and still advocate for Reade to get that full hearing without the collective we beginning rumblings about pushing her out. The whole thing is ugly.
The projection in and of itself is that everyone else needs their consiences assuaged like you, and couldn't possibly legitimately doubt the credibility of Tara's story based on the facts. Either way we both agree no one should be attacking her. I do think however saying "Odds are Biden preyed on Tara" is your (legitimate) opinion, but not the opinion of everyone else as you're assuming it to be.

I think she has said that Biden assaulted her during the 90s no doubt.
Her mom, neighbor and court documents do paint a picture of something very serious going down that would fit the definition of rape.
Now is that 100% proof? But I do view it as contemporaneous evidence that supports that she did indeed tell her friends and family.

This article does say something about it but it isn't the full awesome bullet people think it is.
You're conflating two separate claims. Her mom and court docs are about the harassment claim from Biden's staffers, the neighbor is about the assault claim.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,253
Seattle
Thank you for sharing this. The second point has been on my mind a lot -- although obviously from a different perspective from yours -- when I've seen people post those GIFs. As you said, this does not undo or delegitimize the discomfort that people have experienced as a result of his behavior, but I'm not sure many people take into account the loss he has experienced when judging his motivations. A couple years back I stumbled upon a speech Biden gave in front of Gold Star families about grief, and I've since thought about it as much as any speech by a politician in recent memory. It does not really relate to the Reade allegations, but since this thread is in many ways about Biden's character, I hope it's OK to post it here -- and definitely let me know if it isn't:




Damn..that shit hit me hard. I lost my dad when I was 22.

It will be nice to h ave an adult in the white house again.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,253
Seattle
I think she has said that Biden assaulted her during the 90s no doubt.
Her mom, neighbor and court documents do paint a picture of something very serious going down that would fit the definition of rape.
Now is that 100% proof? But I do view it as contemporaneous evidence that supports that she did indeed tell her friends and family.

This article does say something about it but it isn't the full awesome bullet people think it is.

You are conflating things. Her Mom mentioned a serious incident, What court documents are you talking about? The documents where her Ex stated that there was harassment in Biden's office?
 

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,459
The projection in and of itself is that everyone else needs their consiences assuaged like you, and couldn't possibly legitimately doubt the credibility of Tara's story based on the facts. Either way we both agree no one should be attacking her. I do think however saying "Odds are Biden preyed on Tara" is your (legitimate) opinion, but not the opinion of everyone else as you're assuming it to be.


You're conflating two separate claims. Her mom and court docs are about the harassment claim from Biden's staffers, the neighbor is about the assault claim.
Thank you for sharing the video.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
I think she has said that Biden assaulted her during the 90s no doubt.
Her mom, neighbor and court documents do paint a picture of something very serious going down that would fit the definition of rape.
Now is that 100% proof? But I do view it as contemporaneous evidence that supports that she did indeed tell her friends and family.

This article does say something about it but it isn't the full awesome bullet people think it is.

The rape allegation is the weakest of her claims by far based on whats been discovered

If i look at all the articles and include her original account published on medium the one thing that absolutely stands out to me was that she was definitely singled out for how she was dressed at work.

And clearly was fired for what appears to be contested reasons but at least there are a bunch of people involved that knew about and talked to PBS about it

The rape on the other hand... Given how very public and high traffic the locations were, Bidens history, pattern of behavior, and everything else we know about it...

It doesn't add up like the other things that do
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
The projection in and of itself is that everyone else needs their consiences assuaged like you, and couldn't possibly legitimately doubt the credibility of Tara's story based on the facts. Either way we both agree no one should be attacking her. I do think however saying "Odds are Biden preyed on Tara" is your (legitimate) opinion, but not the opinion of everyone else as you're assuming it to be.


You're conflating two separate claims. Her mom and court docs are about the harassment claim from Biden's staffers, the neighbor is about the assault claim.

Her mom never went into much detail, but it shows something serious happened.

The court documents said that she was traumatized by the events while working at Biden.
So no, I don't regard them as separate.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
Great article and thanks for posting. And thanks to Matt for his personal recollections and thoughts.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
729
Her mom never went into much detail, but it shows something serious happened.

The court documents said that she was traumatized by the events while working at Biden.
So no, I don't regard them as separate.
The harassment claim is about something her colleagues, not Biden, said to her though and about being asked to serve drinks (which is why this article talks about it) -- it's legitimate if you want to use both instances as corroborating a pattern of behavior maybe, but they are not corroborations of the actual assault story.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
The rape allegation is the weakest of her claims by far based on whats been discovered

If i look at all the articles and include her original account published on medium the one thing that absolutely stands out to me was that she was definitely singled out for how she was dressed at work.

And clearly was fired for what appears to be contested reasons but at least there are a bunch of people involved that knew about and talked to PBS about it

The rape on the other hand... Given how very public and high traffic the locations were, Bidens history, pattern of behavior, and everything else we know about it...

It doesn't add up like the other things that do

She has several accounts dating from the 90s that make it clear that she has harbored these allegations since then.
Are they true?
Impossible to say.
 

Nida

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,200
Everett, Washington
So, I haven't really talked about this before, but it seems relevant to the discussion here.

Please note that I fully acknowledge that Biden's over-physicality can be very inappropriate, and has certainly made some people feel uncomfortable. Even I have had physical contact with the man that made me uncomfortable. It's not "OK", and his resistance to adjust his behavior on this front for a long time (he seems to be doing at least somewhat better now) is not a a good look.

But, all that said, I think there is some context that those from the outside that see examples of this on video or wherever might not be aware of, and which somewhat explains why most of those who interact with Biden in person don't view these actions as sexual in nature.
  • Biden is old. Very old, and as part of that he has old-fashioned instincts on things like personal space that many people of his generation continue to hold. And not only is he old, Biden was elected to the US Senate before he turned 30. That means, for a very large part of his career, the political term "kissing babies" was not simply an expression. It was actually a pretty core element of American politics, to the point where it was considered an honor by many parents for politicians to physically kiss babies brought to them, and not just babies. This to some extent included children, teenagers, and sometimes even adults. It wasn't "weird" in American politics for this to happen, even if the kids weren't into it. And sometimes this is still asked for today, although on a much, much reduced scale, and even then is rarely granted by most politicians.
  • Secondly, Biden was deeply, deeply affected by the death of his first wife and daughter. I have personally heard him talk a lot about how that experience changed him, and how one of his biggest takeaways was the need to consistently, and often physically, show people that they are appreciated, cared about, and loved. That's one of the core reason he traveled from Delaware to DC almost every day as a Senator, he feels it's important to physically be a presence in the lives of the people he cares about. And so he hugs and sometimes kisses (on the cheek, forehead, or head) both men and women around him as a sign of what is overwhelmingly considered among his staff and acquaintances to be platonic but genuine and deep affection.
  • Lastly, a lot of the people he works with and has met throughout his entire career and to this day give him incredibly positive feedback when he engages with them physically. "Biden hugs" have, in the vast majority of my personal experience and accounts given to me, been considered deeply comforting, and even something to look forward to. They do, very often, make people feel better, make people feel like they have done a good job, are valued, and are cared about. He has received far, far more enthusiastic responses to this practice in his life than negative ones.
Again, I don't meant this to downplay the basic inappropriateness of some of his actions, or minimize the impact he has had on those who have been understandably made uncomfortable or worse by this aspect of his character. I am simply trying to provide better context for how Biden is understood by those around him, and why people from the outside looking in might not be able to understand why their impression of what he does does not often line up with most firsthand accounts.

My grandfather is older than Biden, but he was a rub your shoulders and neck kind of man as well.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,494
Her mom never went into much detail, but it shows something serious happened.

The court documents said that she was traumatized by the events while working at Biden.
So no, I don't regard them as separate.

Something Serious happened = Its Rape!

She lost her job and it likely wasnt pretty it looks like

Maybe the workplace was indeed toxic from her perspective but it doesnt look directly tied to Biden from the interviews but likely between other staff and supervisors over her clothing incident and apparently job performance?
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
The harassment claim is about something her colleagues, not Biden, said to her though and about being asked to serve drinks (which is why this article talks about it) -- it's legitimate if you want to use both instances as corroborating a pattern of behavior maybe, but they are not corroborations of the actual assault story.

"It was obvious that this event had a very traumatic effect on petitioner and that she is still sensitive and effected (sic) by it today."

Now you can of course say that since she didn't explicitly say rape it isn't proof enough for you.

But for me it is proof that she was harboring these accusations then.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
She lost her job and it likely wasnt pretty it looks like

Maybe the workplace was indeed toxic from her perspective but it doesnt look directly tied to Biden from the interviews but likely between other staff and supervisors over her clothing incident and apparently job performance?

It's clear she felt that way. There's not much to say it actually was that way.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
729
She has several accounts dating from the 90s that make it clear that she has harbored these allegations since then.
Are they true?
Impossible to say.
I'm sorry but that's false, unless you're referring to the harassment allegations against Biden's staff.

"It was obvious that this event had a very traumatic effect on petitioner and that she is still sensitive and effected (sic) by it today."
Again, that is about her harassment claim. Unless you're saying harassment can't also be traumatizing? "Petitioner related a problem that she was having at work regarding sexual harassment in U.S. Senator Joe Biden's office".
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
The projection in and of itself is that everyone else needs their consiences assuaged like you, and couldn't possibly legitimately doubt the credibility of Tara's story based on the facts. Either way we both agree no one should be attacking her. I do think however saying "Odds are Biden preyed on Tara" is your (legitimate) opinion, but not the opinion of everyone else as you're assuming it to be.
That's not an honest reading, because I didn't suggest that everyone else needed to assuage their consciences as I did, just that I saw many poking at a specific means that I reckon damaging. Crucial difference between "this is a bad road" and "this is the only good road". The text wasn't prescriptive of anything so dogmatic.

Nor is it an honest reading to suggest I presume my opinion is shared by everyone. My framing was explicitly that of the personal basis for my way out of the dilemma. At this point I have to wonder if you're playing a spot of gotcha with me for not appending gratuitous [IMO] tags to something that was contextually clear. All the other clauses following that one were also my opinions, but you didn't take exception to those.

We're now well on our way down the garden path of filling around the edges uncharitably.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,239
Her mom never went into much detail, but it shows something serious happened.

The court documents said that she was traumatized by the events while working at Biden.
So no, I don't regard them as separate.

The court documents were from an abusive husband trying to paint past-trauma as clouding Reade's judgement because he was fighting a restraining order.

I believe Reade, but her ex-husbands court filings don't hold a lot of weight towards severity as he was trying to weaponize past abuse to disprove his own.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
The harassment claim was about what her colleagues said to her. What in that quote contradicts that? I think you are mixing up the accounts.

If you wanna attribute those court filings to her being harassed that is fine.
But him saying it was a huge traumatic event doesn't per say prove anything against Biden,
But it does prove that imo she was at the time accusing him both among friends and family.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,239
If you wanna attribute those court filings to her being harassed that is fine.
But him saying it was a huge traumatic event doesn't per say prove anything against Biden,
But it does prove that imo she was at the time accusing him both among friends and family.

He literally said in the court filing that it was harassment in Biden's office that had traumatized her. He was also fighting a restraining order. His filing is useful in that it is more evidence that she clearly had issues within Biden's office and that flies in the face of what Biden's inner circle is saying which is that there was never even harassment. We are not likely to get a smoking gun here, but we could potentially find evidence that there was a harassment claim filed which would paint Bidens team as not truthful.

I believe Reade, but there is no need to intentionally misconstrue facts as it isn't helpful in trying to get a clearer picture of timelines. As far as anyone is aware Reade never told her ex-husband of the rape, and she has not made that claim either.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
729
That's not an honest reading, because I didn't suggest that everyone else needed to assuage their consciences as I did, just that I saw many poking at a specific means that I reckon damaging. Crucial difference between "this is a bad road" and "this is the only good road". The text wasn't prescriptive of anything so dogmatic.

Nor is it an honest reading to suggest I presume my opinion is shared by everyone. My framing was explicitly that of the personal basis for my way out of the dilemma. At this point I have to wonder if you're playing a spot of gotcha with me for not appending gratuitous [IMO] tags to something that was contextually clear. All the other clauses following that one were also my opinions, but you didn't take exception to those.

We're now well on our way down the garden path of filling around the edges uncharitably.
Maybe I misread then, and I apologize. I'm sure there are many people who believe Reade and are trying to convince themselves not to help their guilt. It seemed to me like you were saying doubting her credibility after all the information that came out really meant just trying to assuage guilt, which I disagreed with. I do think that sometimes people verge into the territory of directly attacking Tara, and I think that's unacceptable. The entire point of Me Too is fostering an environment where accusers feel comfortable coming forward, and we need to continue that, even with cases not everyone thinks are credible.

If you wanna attribute those court filings to her being harassed that is fine..
"petitioner related a problem that she was having at work regarding sexual harassment" . On the other end of the spectrum to the above debate, this is a clear example of wanting something to be true even when it's directly contradicted.
 

Tahnit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,965
User Banned (2 Weeks): Casting aspersions on a sexual assault victim
After reading that and the twitter thread about the check fraud I am starting to think that sexual assault wasn't what happened. Honestly it paints Tara as very untrustworthy.
 

RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,049
My grandfather is older than Biden, but he was a rub your shoulders and neck kind of man as well.
And that's a common normal for a lot of people from a certain time. I know even now I've heard older people who are like "the first thing I'm doing when all this passed (speaking of quarantine) is going around and hug everybody's neck" and this is in a strictly male group. Some people are just huggers, handshakers, shoulder taps, side huggers, etc.

I understand that's not a socially accepted norm for a majority of people of a certain age anymore, it's important to understand that context to some level.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
I'm sorry but that's false, unless you're referring to the harassment allegations against Biden's staff.


Again, that is about her harassment claim. Unless you're saying harassment can't also be traumatizing? "Petitioner related a problem that she was having at work regarding sexual harassment in U.S. Senator Joe Biden's office".

Honestly I'd say that 93 being grabbed by the genitalia was ONLY considered sexual harassment.
No matter how you guys wanna soon it the fact remains she has several people and court filings saying she was assaulted and/or harassed.
Her brother, mother neighbor and the way the husband described the incident.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,253
Seattle
Honestly I'd say that 93 being grabbed by the genitalia was ONLY considered sexual harassment.
No matter how you guys wanna soon it the fact remains she has several people and court filings saying she was assaulted and/or harassed.
Her brother, mother neighbor and the way the husband described the incident.


What the fuck? fingering was considered harassment in 1993? Gtfo here
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,239
Honestly I'd say that 93 being grabbed by the genitalia was ONLY considered sexual harassment.
No matter how you guys wanna soon it the fact remains she has several people and court filings saying she was assaulted and/or harassed.
Her brother, mother neighbor and the way the husband described the incident.

You aren't helping anything by muddying waters intentionally

Reade herself has said that there were two separate issues at play. A harassment claim which she made publicly in 1993 that Biden's team denies and a rape claim that she did not make publicly outside of a close circle of family and friends until March of this year.

Like, you are literally arguing with the victims own story.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
729
Honestly I'd say that 93 being grabbed by the genitalia was ONLY considered sexual harassment.
Besides the fact that holy shit that's insane and untrue, she specifically said "This is not a story about sexual misconduct" when it was about harassment. You are free to believe Tara, I don't think it's been proven that Biden is innocent, but don't change Tara's own story to suit your narrative. According to Tara, these are two separate events that occurred that paint a picture of misconduct in Biden's office, and she didn't want to tell the full story of what actually happened with Biden until now.

Like, you are literally arguing with the victims own story.
^^ This.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,333
You aren't helping anything by muddying waters intentionally

Reade herself has said that there were two separate issues at play. A harassment claim which she made publicly in 1993 that Biden's team denies and a rape claim that she did not make publicly outside of a close circle of family and friends until March of this year.

Like, you are literally arguing with the victims own story.

I don't think I am.
I'm arguing that she did tell her friends and family back in the 90s.
I'm arguing that the ex husbands court filing also show that she was part of a traumatic event.
 

DarthSontin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Pennsylvania
The problem I see with the sexual harassment complaint is that harassment could be interpreted by her but not seen by others. If they told her to wear less revealing clothes, which both she and the staff in the PBS corroborated, she could've seen that as a culture of harassment while the others in the office didn't. It does, however, seem unlikely that a single incident like that would traumatize her for years afterward. The whole thing is just messy, and I feel like we're never going to know for sure.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
Maybe I misread then, and I apologize. I'm sure there are many people who believe Reade and are trying to convince themselves not to help their guilt. It seemed to me like you were saying doubting her credibility after all the information that came out really meant just trying to assuage guilt, which I disagreed with. I do think that sometimes people verge into the territory of directly attacking Tara, and I think that's unacceptable. The entire point of Me Too is fostering an environment where accusers feel comfortable coming forward, and we need to continue that, even with cases not everyone thinks are credible.
Thank you. Like I said, it's a mess. A number of them weren't so torn before when the pressures of the cycle weren't beating down and them. There's also a lot of people who don't know what to think and the pressure is getting to them all the same. None of this is right and it's fucking us up.

And I agree with the bolded, with the addition that these things really do need the time and attention. It's not enough to be heard, society needs to commit to following these allegations to the end. It's often years, if the victim even receives any resolution to begin with.
 

Merv

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,462
This thread and the articles/investigative content have swayed me towards Biden. The brother not mentioning the assault and then texting it later is a red flag to me on top of everything else.

I think Joe's typical touching/sniffing stuff happened and made her uncomfortable for sure.
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
This thread and the articles/investigative content have swayed me towards Biden. The brother not mentioning the assault and then texting it later is a red flag to me on top of everything else.

I think Joe's typical touching/sniffing stuff happened and made her uncomfortable for sure.

Yea, that is where I am. The PBS and Vox article make the rape allegation seem implausible.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Negative Reade article from Politico with bunches of people who claim she conned them with recorded proof. I'm not going to post it for obvious reasons. If her allegation is true, then I feel terrible for her because this article and that article are kind of pincering.
 

Pet

More helpful than the IRS
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
SoCal
Is the check fraud thing even relevant unless it relates to her termination? I thought it wasn't but I'm second-guessing my memory of the timeline.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
729
Why did it take this long for the check fraud to become public?
Some of this stuff I've seen for a long, long time, but the story broke so fast that a lot of news sources didn't have the time to vet it, and while they were trying to vet it there was outcry about "not taking it seriously". Plus, I think it's hard for a news source to talk about stuff like that without some people thinking it's just an attack on Tara.

And I agree with the bolded, with the addition that these things really do need the time and attention. It's not enough to be heard, society needs to commit to following these allegations to the end. It's often years, if the victim even receives any resolution to begin with.
I think that at a bare minimum there should be respect for the victim and a commitment to completely following the allegations. The point is that even if there are some untrue cases, almost all of them are legitimate, so they should be treated with seriousness and respect. I think that people telling us that not believing a muddied claim like this makes us "the same as the republicans" are playing down how important the treatment of accusers is as a part of Me Too. To me, some here make it seem they believed "Me Too" was actually the right wing strawman of "guilty until proven innocent" (which it never was). It was always about treating rape accusations with the seriousness we bring to other accusations, without thinking accusers are likely making it up.

Is the check fraud thing even relevant unless it relates to her termination? I thought it wasn't but I'm second-guessing my memory of the timeline.
Check fraud was 4 days before firing, so it seems relevant.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,328
Is the check fraud thing even relevant unless it relates to her termination? I thought it wasn't but I'm second-guessing my memory of the timeline.
Its somewhat relevant in that she was literally notified she was being charged six days before she was fired.
However, more relevant is this which backs up the performance related firing statement in the PBS report