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PBS: What 74 former Biden staffers think about Tara Reade’s allegations
- Thread starter Deleted member 5666
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It's such a basic fact of life to me that I'm always startled when people are shocked by it being a thing.
This is false. What her friends, family and neighbor can corroborate is that Reade told them about harassment she faced. They do not claim to have witnessed any harassment first hand, so it is incorrect to claim that they corroborate that "Joe Biden harassed her".
Yea this is very "he did some stuff that I wasn't comfortable with but I just ignored it for the job"
They're two different stories. One of them is multiple women, including Reade, accusing him of not respecting their personal space, which he addressed last year.
This is far more serious, and I'm not sure what you mean by "they're arriving at the same conclusions", Biden apologised for his actions to the earlier accusers.
I certainly agree with that assessment, but I was just speaking in generals.
This is why I've always thought it would have been better as "Listen to Women." It's similar to "Black Lives Matter." The people who truly know what it stands for understand it translates to "Black Lives ALSO Matter," but bad actors want you to believe it means "Black Lives Matter MORE."
Unfortunately, the right tends to weaponize just about everything.
Nothing we can do there
They would have weaponized it anyways even if you changed the wording
OP
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The interviews with the 74 staffers paint a completely different picture than what you are saying.
I agree, but I think too many people take the phrase far too literally, which is what the post I quoted was referring to.
I was replying to something very specific.
Personal recollections from working with Biden's staff
So, I haven't really talked about this before, but it seems relevant to the discussion here.
Please note that I fully acknowledge that Biden's over-physicality can be very inappropriate, and has certainly made some people feel uncomfortable. Even I have had physical contact with the man that made me uncomfortable. It's not "OK", and his resistance to adjust his behavior on this front for a long time (he seems to be doing at least somewhat better now) is not a a good look.
But, all that said, I think there is some context that those from the outside that see examples of this on video or wherever might not be aware of, and which somewhat explains why most of those who interact with Biden in person don't view these actions as sexual in nature.
- Biden is old. Very old, and as part of that he has old-fashioned instincts on things like personal space that many people of his generation continue to hold. And not only is he old, Biden was elected to the US Senate before he turned 30. That means, for a very large part of his career, the political term "kissing babies" was not simply an expression. It was actually a pretty core element of American politics, to the point where it was considered an honor by many parents for politicians to physically kiss babies brought to them, and not just babies. This to some extent included children, teenagers, and sometimes even adults. It wasn't "weird" in American politics for this to happen, even if the kids weren't into it. And sometimes this is still asked for today, although on a much, much reduced scale, and even then is rarely granted by most politicians.
- Secondly, Biden was deeply, deeply affected by the death of his first wife and daughter. I have personally heard him talk a lot about how that experience changed him, and how one of his biggest takeaways was the need to consistently, and often physically, show people that they are appreciated, cared about, and loved. That's one of the core reason he traveled from Delaware to DC almost every day as a Senator, he feels it's important to physically be a presence in the lives of the people he cares about. And so he hugs and sometimes kisses (on the cheek, forehead, or head) both men and women around him as a sign of what is overwhelmingly considered among his staff and acquaintances to be platonic but genuine and deep affection.
- Lastly, a lot of the people he works with and has met throughout his entire career and to this day give him incredibly positive feedback when he engages with them physically. "Biden hugs" have, in the vast majority of my personal experience and accounts given to me, been considered deeply comforting, and even something to look forward to. They do, very often, make people feel better, make people feel like they have done a good job, are valued, and are cared about. He has received far, far more enthusiastic responses to this practice in his life than negative ones.
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It was an inaccurate read of the comment though, as his staff made it pretty blatantly clear that Biden's office was widely considered and seen as the safe one for women and women felt safe from harassment there.
This is some weak-ass shit. If you don't want to read the article, fine. Move on from the thread. Don't turn it around on the OP for failing to quote the right part because you are lazy, and still expect to be a full participant in the discussion.
I wasn't either, actually, honesty mistake. I went and looked up that site and its associations, yikes.
Thank you for posting this, this is some great context that many people are likely not aware of.
Its actually incredible we have an actual Biden Staffer on this site to provide more corroboration of his character
Great post. You've put into words thoughts that have crossed my mind as well. I can't even imagine the toll losing both your wife and daughter would have on someone.
you're saying this in a thread about an article that has 74 staffers providing corroboration of his character
i agree with the early posters who said this isn't really going to change anyones mind on either side, which is pretty much going to be true of everything going forward unless something explosive comes out. but its good that more and more information is being made available so people can make an informed decision
Also this is some nice context to have, I was unaware he lost his first wife
Check Fraud Reporting
Yes, they didn't witness the harassment firsthand, Reade told them about it close to the time of the alleged incident. That, plus her mother's phone call to CNN, are definitely corroborating evidence.
Somehow I never knew that Biden lost his daughter and at the same time as his wife
This article and the Vox one swayed me. I've been everywhere from "he probably did it" to "not likely."
Yes, people who have a flag planted aren't going to move them. People who said "let's investigate" in good faith will weigh what they've heard.
It's really more that her story has been pretty well vetted and all there is her allegation, which suddenly elevated from harassment to assault, and her brother and some friends confirming that she told them about harassment (and it's murky here too exactly what she told the other witnesses, her brother's story changed too). And those she told it wasn't clear she was specifically talking about Biden, just his office. Outlets did do vetting and came up with they aren't going to run a story based on the above.
All the other vetting is that Biden's chief of staff and all of her colleagues do not have any recollection of this, and that her claims about being asked to serve drinks have been shot down as very unlikely, and now further vetting by pbs we now have that her direct colleague reported her for poor performance and that's why she was let go.
So yeah it seems like when the vetting doesn't go the way people want (apparently further confirmation of a a sexual assault occuring), folks don't like that.
Poor guy, that's an awful thing for any parent to have to go through
Can you send me a link to the corroborating witnesses that were told the same time as it happened? I've seen this posted a lot but the only one I could see (and it's actually really hard to work out from the different news reports) was the anomynous friend one which was the same one that changed their story from saying initially it wasn't sexual in the Vox piece, all the others appear to be later, the earliest of someone who was willing to go on record was the neighbour were they were told in 1996. It is possible I'm wrong in that, like I said there's been so many different articles posted at different times, I'm kinda struggling to keep a timeline
That's pretty solid evidence. I'm surprised Tara submitted it herself as it falls directly in line with the PBS reporting which I wouldn't have doubted anyways but still.
Of course this only addresses the small detail of her being fired as opposed to resigning. She said she was fired in retaliation to sexual harrassment correct?
Thank you for posting this. It reaffirms a lot of opinions I'd formed about Biden over the years from following his career and personal life.
"He was always massaging somebody's shoulders. But never anything more than that. There was no vibe about him."
However, staffers agree it was not in Biden's nature to gauge social signals about whether someone wanted to be hugged or touched. Many said they learned that he might do so without warning
It's certainly a "vibe" I'm getting that maybe it was a safe place, in comparison to others. That some people just had to put up with his penchant for being a little too intimate.
according to the divorce proceedings, the story to her husband was she resigned with an agreement with the CoS which I think she has also put the narrative that she resigned.
That was an excellent read, exactly the kind of thorough journalism I've been hoping for.
As rare as false accusations are, women are people subject to the same flaws or misguidance (or whatever else it is in this case) as anyone else. I say that as a woman myself.
As rare as false accusations are, women are people subject to the same flaws or misguidance (or whatever else it is in this case) as anyone else. I say that as a woman myself.
Thank you for sharing this insight. I've long suspected your second point might be the case, which is why it's upsetting to see people jump to conclusions about him being perverted. Unfortunately it does make him an easy target for smears in this age. But I'm really glad he's generally kind behind the scenes.
Thanks for posting this, I hadn't seen it before.
This is excellent investigating.
I think first and second hand accounts speak more to the situation than your vibes and ambiguous implications. We've got an article right here that gives their opinions clearly. Of course it's possible someone felt that way, perhaps they didn't. Ultimately, we only have their statements to go on though.
All of this continues to point to there likely being nothing there. I'm really not sure what else the news media can do except keep asking the same thing over and over to Biden himself, who has already denied it. Hopefully more journalistic investigations are ongoing.
I wasnt under the impression the check fraud allegations were unrelated to her firing from Biden's staff
The interviewed her direct supervisor who said it had to do with her handling of letters from correspondents or something?
Right. The only thing looking likely is she was fired for performance reasons. Other types of impropriety may have happened but there's not multiple pieces of evidence offering that narrative.
Yeah, it's probably a combination of both. Check fraud and working in the Senate as a public servant don't really mix. So a history of poor performance to the point of officially docking her pay, and then check fraud, yeah they aren't going to keep you around.
Here:
New Evidence Supports Credibility of Tara Reade’s Allegation Against Biden
Reade’s mother called into the Larry King Live show in 1993 and discussed her daughter’s time with a “prominent senator.”
theintercept.com
A former neighbor of Joe Biden's accuser Tara Reade has come forward to corroborate her sexual-assault account, saying Reade discussed the allegations in detail in the mid-1990s
Former Biden staffer Tara Reade says the Democratic presidential nominee sexually assaulted her in 1993. Reade's former neighbor tells Insider that Reade confided in her about the allegations at the time.
www.businessinsider.com
Something untoward definitely happened in Joe Biden's Senate office to Tara Reade.
I thought the check thing was refuted already by the person who broke the story?
Here:
New Evidence Supports Credibility of Tara Reade’s Allegation Against Biden
Reade’s mother called into the Larry King Live show in 1993 and discussed her daughter’s time with a “prominent senator.”
A former neighbor of Joe Biden's accuser Tara Reade has come forward to corroborate her sexual-assault account, saying Reade discussed the allegations in detail in the mid-1990s
Former Biden staffer Tara Reade says the Democratic presidential nominee sexually assaulted her in 1993. Reade's former neighbor tells Insider that Reade confided in her about the allegations at the time.
Something untoward definitely happened in Joe Biden's Senate office to Tara Reade.
I would note that the witness did not recall anything until Reade reached out to her. While I agree that isn't dispositive, its not exactly a contemporaneous confirmation.