Patrick Rothfuss' Editor: "I've never seen a word of book three"

[JimD]

Honestly, Gaiman's "GRRM is not your bitch" essay always ignored the wider repercussions of very famous authors being unable or unwilling to finish an ongoing series. Not in ANY way do I suggest that fans abusing an author is ok. It 100% is not. Even just reaching out to express criticism directly to someone who is, in fact, a stranger is fairly questionable.

But in addition to publishers being hurt when a series can't or won't be finished, the industry as a whole feels it when there are prominent examples. It's certainly possible to chase away fans of the genre as a whole. Personally, I've stopped reading first books that are promoted as being part of a fantasy series unless the writer has already demonstrated they can complete a multi book storyline. And I used to buy those ALL the time. Now? Nope, I'll wait till you're finished. And that's directly because of Martin and Rothfuss.

I'm sure they always had the best intentions. But when you let down people you're working with and people who were paying for your books, a little public criticism is still justified regardless of intentions.

 

[Orb]

I wish authors would just tell readers the truth.

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The truth can change

 

[vodalus]

I liked the First Law, but his recent book didn't grab me the same way. I think Rothfuss is really bad writer, but I don't know that I've ever seen a publisher throw someone under the bus like this.

 

[ClassAndFear]

I wish authors would just tell readers the truth.

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It's pretty rare for this shit to happen. Or, sometimes, they can't. I've has stuff concerning a sequel to one of my books happen that i can't/won't talk about. It looks like I didn't deliver on time; that is not the truth.

Also, some authors are dicks.

 

[mbpm]

God bless fantasy authors like Mark Lawrence, Michael J. Sullivan, Brent Weeks, and Sebastien de Castell that can actually finish fantasy series and not take multiple decades to do it.

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Greatcoats series should have ended at book 3 imo

 

[Thorrgal]

I loved book One (read it 3 times) but absolutely hated book Two, so can't say I'm surprised.

I am really surprised about the editor's post though. They must be fuming

 

[MDSVeritas]

Through much of 2017 and 2018 I was alternating between Rothfuss and Sanderson as I read and I think overall I've come to realize that while Sanderson doesn't always give the richness of character that Rothfuss can, and Rothfuss's characters are generally less archetypal, Sanderson at least carries his story forward at basically a solid pace no matter what, and between that and his constant output it's hard not to come to appreciate his work a bit more by now, even just because I can actually read through it.

 

[Thorrgal]

The author that has kept me the most occupied and entertained while waiting for more from Rothfuss is Joe Abercrombie. His First Law trilogy is top notch and complete.

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No question about it. The trilogy if stand alones that follow and conplete the story is also done.

Also Joe wrote the last trilogy, at list on a first draft, before he started publishing it, so people know that is coming for sure. Book 2 comes out in September iirc.

This one is set on the same world but a few years into the future

 

[MrHedin]

I don't think that's fair. Rothfuss and Martin are obviously the biggest examples here because their series are some of the most popular but past them, I can't think of another modern fantasy series left in limbo like these 2 are.

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Gentlemen Bastards. I know Lynch has had some personal problems but Thorn of Emberlain is taking awhile and despite saying he had submitted a final draft to his publishers last May there is still no confirmed release date for that book.

 

[Deleted member 24052]

Isn't Rothfuss a pretty prolific blogger? I admit, I haven't followed any progress he's made on this book (which sounds like none). I can't believe he just never mentions it. At least we get "updates" from GRRM. Not sure which is worse, constantly giving hope and then just not delivering or saying nothing at all.

Although, I didn't like Wise Man's Fear near as much as Name of the Wind so if he never ends up finishing, it won't bother me as much.

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I am certain that we will see Winds of Winter some day.

I am NOT certain we will ever see DoS, unfortunately.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Simply put had i known he would never finish the trilogy i would not have invested time and money on his books. He has failed to deliver so that mean he loses support from me on any future projects.

 

[Valkyr]

I am certain that we will see Winds of Winter some day.

I am NOT certain we will ever see DoS, unfortunately.

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I think you're right. I'm also fairly certain both series will never be finished.

 

[studyguy]

Authors basically being on tap now 24/7 still throws me a bit when at best I met Robin Hobb (Lindholm? Forget what her real name is...) by pure happenstance in middle school and now you can basically log into twitter to find all about your favorite author any time of the day.

 

[svacina]

I think you're right. I'm also fairly certain both series will never be finished.

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If DoS is never coming out he could at least have the decency to release some sort of a summary.

 

[Veelk]

As someone who is usually on the side that says it doesn't matter how long a book takes and author's don't owe their readers anything, including a timely schedule, or even if they don't come out at all...I will say that I find this harder to defend when it's coming from the author's editor herself. All the harder since KKC is one of my favorite book series.

For me, it's a matter honesty. If Pat hasn't written anything in 6 years, at the very least, his editor that financially depends on him, deserves to know it so they can either get him the help he needs or stop waiting on him to deliver the book at all. And the fact that this editor in particular, known to be widely respected, is calling him out publically like this just indicates how bad it must be.

I hate reading these threads because I disagree with 99.999% of the takes within them, but I can't begrudge the anger if it's coming from the actual editor. I hope he responds to her (respectfully, obviously) so there is some communication here.

 

[BossAttack]

If DoS is never coming out he could at least have the decency to release some sort of a summary.

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Ha, no.

The best you can hope is he keeps detailed notes for whoever comes after to piece together his conclusion and write out a novel posthumously.

 

[Valkyr]

If DoS is never coming out he could at least have the decency to release some sort of a summary.

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Absolutely. I hadn't been following him too much but I'm just shocked he's said absolutely nothing about it. Even to his publisher.

 

[svacina]

Ha, no.

The best you can hope is he keeps detailed notes for whoever comes after to piece together his conclusion and write out a novel posthumously.

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Is Kevin J Anderson busy?

 

[Tya]

FWIW Pat has written a few chapters of book 3, but that was years ago. I don't know what he's up to now.

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He streams on twitch.

 

[Veelk]

Ha, no.

The best you can hope is he keeps detailed notes for whoever comes after to piece together his conclusion and write out a novel posthumously.

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To my understanding, he doesn't keep any notes, it's all in his head. Regardless though, that is not something I hope for. I probably wouldn't even read that version of the third book the same way I wouldn't read any non-GRRM penned Winds of Winter.

 

[Sain]

If he doesn't want to finish series, so be it. I wish he would just be honest and up-front with his fans though. I liked the first one, strongly disliked the second, but would still want to read the third if it ever came out. Kind of insulting to everyone who has supported him if there hasn't been any significant progress made on Book 3.

 

[Teriyaki Blues]

Gentlemen Bastards. I know Lynch has had some personal problems but Thorn of Emberlain is taking awhile and despite saying he had submitted a final draft to his publishers last May there is still no confirmed release date for that book.

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His problems include (he & his wife together) grooming and abusing women, so I'm going to be taking a pass on the rest of his books.

As for Rothfuss, I had a feeling he wasn't going to go the distance. He once posted a blog, about a million years ago (it feels like it) about how the revision process of book one changed his "already written" trilogy so much that he had to basically throw the whole thing out and start from scratch, using the old trilogy as basically a skeleton to hang the second and third books on. I stopped waiting at that point. (Here's the post, in case anyone feels like time traveling to 2008.)

 

[BossAttack]

To my understanding, he doesn't keep any notes, it's all in his head. Regardless though, that is not something I hope for. I probably wouldn't even read that version of the third book the same way I wouldn't read any non-GRRM penned Winds of Winter.

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I was actually referring to A Dream of Spring. I read the abbreviation too fast. I don't know what Rothfuss' plans are.

 

[svacina]

His problems include (he & his wife together) grooming and abusing women

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The what now?

 

[Pixieking]

His problems include (he & his wife together) grooming and abusing women, so I'm going to be taking a pass on the rest of his books.

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The what now?

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That poster kinda glossed over a lot of context and nuance:

Fantasy Author Alexandra Rowland Accuses Scott Lynch and Elizabeth Bear of Grooming and Abuse

This is not grooming and I take an issue with the use of that term. Grooming is for non-consenting persons. Rowland was 25 years old and capable of making her own decisions. While there IS a power imbalance, I would categorize this as sexual harassment, but never as grooming.

www.resetera.com

 

[Veelk]

I was actually referring to A Dream of Spring. I read the abbreviation too fast. I don't know what Rothfuss' plans are.

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Ah. Well, same difference.

Personally, I legit do not understand why people are so absolutely determined to get an ending, any ending, at any cost. I'm not saying a different author can't possibly do a given story justice, but even authors who try their hardest often lose the nuances the original author had and the story feels off to me. And in the worst case scenerio, you have Game of Thrones ending level quality.

I only want a conclusion if it can be reached with equal or surpassing quality that makes a person love the the series in the first place, and that's almost never something anyone else can do. Anything else is, imo, literally not worth having.

 

[Tornak]

Unless something has changed or (I have a wrong impression of his relationship with his books), there's no way Rothfuss would just hand over the writing of The Doors of Stone to another author, nah.

Yeah the Blood Song was brilliant in terms of setting up the world and characters but the next two books somehow went fast forward. Queen of Fire was a better book than Tower Lord. But the Raven's Blade duology is where it's at. The main character is Vaelin again and he's up against some unbeatable bastard this time.

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Nice. It's honestly been a bit since I last read a fantasy novel. So I'll get into the first two books (as I can't remember that much) and then Queen of Fire and the Raven's Blade ones, pretty stoked about that.

Cheers!

 

[mhayes86]

Like Martin, I've been in a position of I'll believe it exists when I see it. I have already accepted that it may never come, so I'll be pleasantly surprised if the next book ever releases.

 

[pants]

He'll write it eventually, I think the creative process is just really hard on some people.

Plenty of other books out there in the meantime.

 

[zashga]

I keep forgetting this series even exists. Theoretically, I'd read a third book if it's ever written. After the precipitous drop in quality from one to two, I don't particularly care either way.

 

[Deleted member 46948]

Joe is by far one of the most stand up authors out there based on my very moderate exposure to most of these big name authors/series. From his reasonable and reliable output, the quality of his work to begin with, his relative views and willingness take criticism and self reflect and change his behavior and writing based on that. Love The First Law series and supplemental works that came after and really enjoyed the first book in his new trilogy and can't wait for book 2.

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Absolutely, Joe is good people :)

 

[Tuorom]

Oh well, I still have NoTW and WMF to re-read and enjoy.

I'll keep coming back to that prose and world building again and again.

A shame though, I would like to read more.

 

[Jiggy]

I'm not surprised Showtime passed on the series and the film adaption hasn't even gotten off the ground. Kingkiller could have been the next big fantasy IP but nobody's gonna bother if the author hasn't worked on it in years.

 

[Cugel]

The first two books were okay but nothing more. Most people seemed to have moved on.

 

[Deleted member 9479]

Yeah over the years I've gone from anxiously waiting to trying not to think about it it to not thainking about it without really trying to now, finally, actively not believing it will ever come out.

And still... if it comes out in twenty years I'll still probably buy it day 1.

 

[Cugel]

To my understanding, he doesn't keep any notes, it's all in his head. Regardless though, that is not something I hope for. I probably wouldn't even read that version of the third book the same way I wouldn't read any non-GRRM penned Winds of Winter.

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I think I remember a blog post of George explicitly telling he had small cards for every characters, their family, motivations and al to avoid mistakes

 

[FaffEra]

This really doesn't surprise me. I read the 2 books since a friend recommended them to me. Liked both of them well enough but Rothfuss wrote himself into a corner. I was left with the impression that there's like a year between the last story account in book 2 and the present day, which really doesn't make sense.

 

[Clay]

I was always annoyed by his "Creators don't owe their audiences anything" stance. It's not wrong, but at the same time it's pretty lame to string people along with zero communication. If you're not in the mood to write that's fine and you shouldn't feel obligated too, but just say it so people aren't left waiting.

Maybe at some point he'll let someone else finish the series? I know that's been done with other fantasy series, though as far as I know only when the original author passed away. It's a shame he seems to have given up on it, the first book was pretty cool. The second was decent, it went way overboard with the self-insert wish fulfillment, the part where the main character gets trained to have sex by a harem of ninja women in particular was ludicrous, and I remember his relationship with the main love interest being a little man-childish, but it had some cool ideas too.

 

[Veelk]

This really doesn't surprise me. I read the 2 books since a friend recommended them to me. Liked both of them well enough but Rothfuss wrote himself into a corner. I was left with the impression that there's like a year between the last story account in book 2 and the present day, which really doesn't make sense.

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it's 5-8 years. Kvothe is 15 when they admit him and I think he's 16 or 17 by the time book 2 ends. He might be slightly older due to time spent in the Fae, but in the real world time, I don't think he's been at the university for more than 3 years at most. And he's been in the Inn for about a year. In present day, Kvothe is described as a man in his mid-20's, maybe early 20's. He gives off the air of being much older, so people are surprised when they look closely at him and see he's really actually fairly young.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

Name of the Wind and Wise Mans Fear are two of my favorite books but at this point i've written an ending in my head and i'm expecting book three to never come out. I'd love to be wrong and maybe someday i can enjoy the trilogy in full, but i'm not holding my breath.

God bless fantasy authors like Mark Lawrence, Michael J. Sullivan, Brent Weeks, and Sebastien de Castell that can actually finish fantasy series and not take multiple decades to do it.

(also Wise Man's Fear is better than Name of the Wind)

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Glad to finally meet another Michael J Sullivan fan!

 

[FnordChan]

I'll be curious to hear of Rothfuss responds to these comments. There are several convention appearances online that generally start with him saying, "Hey, ask me some questions - though, you know, maybe not questions about Book Three, that would be boring and not appreciated." On the one hand, sure, nagging him isn't going to make the book happen and I'm sure he's tired of hearing about it. On the other hand, damn, you've been called out by your publisher's EIC, maybe consider providing some sort of an update even if it's just "Sorry, perpetually on hiatus due to life."

As for the Showtime adaptation, perhaps they saw the Game of Thrones final season fall off of a cliff and decided not to adapt a series that doesn't have an actual ending.

As for myself, I have many, many other books to read, but it's still disappointing to hear that something you were looking forward to is in limbo. I'd rather any author took the time they needed to write a sequel that they felt was the best work they could provide, but it's also nice if they do so in a timely enough fashion that people still give a damn.

I should note that it's difficult to feel too self-righteous about DoS being indefinitely delayed when Rothfuss spends so much of his spare time, let's see, organizing charity fundraisers. Okay, fine, I can't really argue with that.

At this point I don't really expect a third novel anytime soon, if ever. However, I am hoping that a truly excellent fanfiction finale is written so I can go read that instead. If anyone happens to know of said theoretical excellent fanfic finale, please let me know.

 

[ArbitraryWater]

Doesn't surprise me, I guess? I liked both of those books, but it's been long enough that I've mentally checked out of this or Winds of Winter ever being finished (or, if they are, living up to expectations.) I'm sympathetic to the "authors don't owe their readers shit" perspective, but stuff like this is one of the reasons why I've cooled on long-form fantasy stuff. I believe Sanderson when he says he has a ridiculous roadmap for all of his 18,000 cosmere novels, but the second anyone else says something like that (or even "this is the first book of an already written trilogy" apparently) it's nothing but alarm bells.

In any case, I guess the one regret I have is wondering if all of the stuff with Kvothe being a super awesome cool guy who is also a sex wizard (Yet is a possessive incel around Denna) was meant to be played straight or set up to be subverted in the third book. Because boy, as written, that stuff was embarrassing when I was in high school and is even more embarrassing now.

 

[FaffEra]

it's 5-8 years. Kvothe is 15 when they admit him and I think he's 16 or 17 by the time book 2 ends. He might be slightly older due to time spent in the Fae, but in the real world time, I don't think he's been at the university for more than 3 years at most. And he's been in the Inn for about a year. In present day, Kvothe is described as a man in his mid-20's, maybe early 20's. He gives off the air of being much older, so people are surprised when they look closely at him and see he's really actually fairly young.

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That description's jogged my memory haha. I guess all the stuff that was being built up to hopefully get resolved in book 3, the pace of his progression in the university and books being a supposed trilogy coloured what I remembered of the books.

 

[Eidan]

I'm so glad I never bothered with this series.

 

[Barrel_Roll]

This makes me glad I'm a Sanderson fan. He never makes us wait long for the next doorstopper.

 

[Zelenogorsk]

Glad to finally meet another Michael J Sullivan fan!

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His books are so much fun and I never have to force myself to read them (that can happen with some of the "denser" fantasy series), he just rocks.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

His books are so much fun and I never have to force myself to read them (that can happen with some of the "denser" fantasy series), he just rocks.

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Yeah, all of his books are such page turners.

 

[Fat4all]

maybe it's because im not much into fantasy novels but i had no idea who the author was or what book/books the OP was referring to, so i had to do a good bit of googling and wiki reading

are these kingkiller books prolific? i'd never really heard of them before, and im a huge nerd who hung out with other huge nerds in the 2000's-2010's

worth reading?

 

[Com_Raven]

Well, I guess that means there is no more need to check google from time to time to see if there is any update. Between ASoIaF and this (plus a couple in-progress Warhammer stories), it can be pretty frustrating to read fantasy/ sci-fi series :(

 

[BossAttack]

Ah. Well, same difference.

Personally, I legit do not understand why people are so absolutely determined to get an ending, any ending, at any cost. I'm not saying a different author can't possibly do a given story justice, but even authors who try their hardest often lose the nuances the original author had and the story feels off to me. And in the worst case scenerio, you have Game of Thrones ending level quality.

I only want a conclusion if it can be reached with equal or surpassing quality that makes a person love the the series in the first place, and that's almost never something anyone else can do. Anything else is, imo, literally not worth having.

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Well, some conclusion is better than noi conclusion. You can at least get an idea how the story is supposed to end. I don't think the GoT ending is comparable because it's unlikely much of George's ideas are in that ending. An ending written by someone else but utilizing copious notes by George would be acceptable as opposed to no ending at all.