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Patreon introduces tiers (Lite, Pro, Premium) with increased cut and different feature sets

dex3108

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,618
I didn't know where to post this so mods move it if you think that there is better place for it.

Patreon couldn't survive charging all creators just a 5 percent rake on the monthly subscriptions they earn from fans while building commerce tools like CRMs and merchandise to try to stay ahead of Twitch, YouTube and Google. But it also didn't want to screw all its loyal early creators.

So today, Patreon is overhauling its pricing. Any creator can still get a 5 percent rate, but just for a Lite version without bonus tools or different fan tiers. All of Patreon's extra features will now be in the Pro plan, with an 8 percent rate, but with existing creators grandfathered in at 5 percent. And the new Premium enterprise plan for 12 percent (9 percent for existing creators) will offer full-service merchandise sales, multi-user team accounts and dedicated customer support.

If you want the lower grandfathered rates, you'll need to join Patreon in the next few weeks before the new rates go into effect in early May.
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Patreon-Compare-Plans.png


https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/19/patreon-ups-its-revenue-cut-but-grandfathers-in-old-creators/
 
Bigkrev

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,329
As someone not familiar with what Patreon offers to creators (i just use it to support some people)
How much more are you getting in the Pro membership that you weren't getting before hand?
 

KoolAid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,681
So they're trying to sneak the cut raise they tried to do a couple of months ago but with a little spin. Kindly sod off

Bigkrev said:
As someone not familiar with what Patreon offers to creators (i just use it to support some people)
How much more are you getting in the Pro membership that you weren't getting before hand?
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Pretty much nothing, besides "creator-led workshops" no one cares about and "priority customer support", which means absolutely nothing
 
lowhighkang_LHK

lowhighkang_LHK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,891
Las Vegas
KoolAid said:
So they're trying to sneak the cut raise they tried to do a couple of months ago but with a little spin. Kindly sod off



Pretty much nothing, besides "creator-led workshops" no one cares about and "priority customer support", which means absolutely nothing
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Such is the nature of these things right.

As they grow in popularity the system goes from business needing consumer to consumer needing business.

Look at youtube. I imagine twitch won't be going more creator friendly in the future. And of course now Patreon.

Now that Patreon has basically made it's business model a requirement for people, patreon can more or less do what they want.
 
benzopil

benzopil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,150
Current creators means those who are already getting money or I can just register now and start doing stuff later with 5 percent rate?
 
Cantaim

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,371
The Stussining
Interesting that they finally rolled this out. Remember chatting to some people on Twitter last year about how to grow Patreon and this is actually what we came up with as well. Should upscale really well for Patreon outside of the initial moaning.
 

Nuclear Muffin

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
This was always inevitable, but at least they're still offering a cheaper version at the same rate to help soften the blow... for now anyway...

Probably the best way they could've handled a price hike really. Given their position of power, they could've done much worse and have gotten away with it.
 
KorrZ

KorrZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
798
Canada
Basic capitalism at work here.

Nobody cares about being a stable company making a decent profit...grow, grow, grow, charge more for the same thing etc. etc.
 
Earthstrike

Earthstrike

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,232
Something like a donation platform should be a competitive business then. There's now way other people can't set donation payment model systems for lower cuts than this.
 
Akita One

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,632
Weiss said:
You sure do like giving companies the benefit of the doubt.

They're out to exploit you and drain your wallet.
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KorrZ said:
Basic capitalism at work here.

Nobody cares about being a stable company making a decent profit...grow, grow, grow, charge more for the same thing etc. etc.
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So whenever any company raises prices for any product and service, it immediately is because of capitalism and implied greed? Where is the line?

Is there any example of a company, that isn't failing, raising prices that you are okay with?
 
Herr Starr

Herr Starr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,230
Norway
AcademicSaucer said:
Is Patreon really that unprofitable or is it that they want to grow and they cant do that as it is?
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It's never about profit with big companies, and it's not their fault. It's always, always about growth. A company could earn unimaginable profits and still be considered a failure if it doesn't grow year to year.

It's one of the biggest flaws with capitalism. You either grow until you are unrecognizable to the early customers, or you fail. It's not about greed. It's about survival.

I don't really mind the changes at Patreon here. At least they are choosing to go for a more sustainable growth in income rather than just firing a bunch of people to get the "same" results from a corporate standpoint, so there's that.
 
Griffith

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
So this is Patreon's plan to raise their bottom line and slowly but surely erode the confidence people placed on them.
 
Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Akita One said:
So whenever any company raises prices for any product and service, it immediately is because of capitalism and implied greed? Where is the line?

Is there any example of a company, that isn't failing, raising prices that you are okay with?
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I have a better question: Why should I be okay with that?
 
Akita One

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,632
Weiss said:
The poor companies.

Who will think of the bottom line.

I'm going to buy loot boxes in repentance.
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But this is Patreon, they don't sell loot boxes. No one is saying "the poor companies"...weird that you took that from the question of "is a price raise always evil". Why so defensive?
 
Tygre

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,125
Chesire, UK
Edit:

I was mistaken!

Patreon is also changing its payment processing fees

Transactions over $3 incur a 2.9 percent plus $0.30 charge.

Transactions under $3 cost 5 percent plus $0.10.

People paying via PayPal from outside the U.S. get hit with an extra 1 percent fee.
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These changes are being put in between the creators and patreon, not patrons and patreon, so no change for patrons.

This whole thing is a mess and I got it wrong, sorry!
 
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Weiss

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Akita One said:
But this is Patreon, they don't sell loot boxes. No one is saying "the poor companies"...weird that you took that from the question of "is a price raise always evil". Why so defensive?
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Sure let me be direct since subtlety is out the window.

Yes. If a company raises the price on a product or service exclusively to line their pockets because they think they can get away with it, they're shit.
 
Orioto

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
So i guess it'll just make my struggle to make a living worse, thx patreon

Tygre said:
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THESE CHANGES FOR USERS:



They are just bringing back the charges users revolted over last year but trying to keep them quiet.

After these charges and VAT a "one dollar" pledge is now going to cost me $1.39

After these charges and VAT a "three dollar" pledge is now going to cost me $4.10
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Really ?? for christ fucking sake they will take more money from me AND make my Patrons leave now.. Some people are dependent from these kind of site really, they can't play with those shit like that..
 
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Griffith

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Dreamwriter said:
How would this erode anyone's confidence? People already using the service get to keep using it at the same rates they signed up for.
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The writing has been on the wall for a while: They increased rates before, some members have started to get banned (some for better reasons than others) and now this new increase that will affect any new members they receive.

In my opinion all three of those things erode confidence in their service.
 
Bradford

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
This actually seems to be a reasonable, happy solution for the problems discussed. I know creators were worried about a full overhaul with no choices, but it actually looks like they added some options here. This doesn't seem so bad!

Granted, there are still issues, but it's better than nothing or a full no-optiom redesign.
 
MJnR

MJnR

Member
Mar 13, 2019
667
I use my account to support a few creators and won't mind to keep supporting them with those extra fees, but how does this impact the creator themselves? Given some reactions, is it really that bad?
 
FSP

FSP

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,644
London, United Kingdom
The writing is seriously on the wall for Patreon, huh. :|

The more money you earn, the more you are encouraged to give less of your cash to Patreon by stepping down in features.

The overarching problem is the pound of flesh for spinning money, of course (bank charges)
 
Dreamwriter

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
MJunioR said:
I use my account to support a few creators and won't mind to keep supporting them with those extra fees, but how does this impact the creator themselves? Given some reactions, is it really that bad?
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Doesn't impact them at all. New creators will have higher fees, so will get less of your money. Existing creators aren't affected.
 
Karak

Karak

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
I can honestly say they have easily the worst customer support I have dealt with. And that includes setting up customer support centers around the world as my job prior to youtube. I simply am stunned at how terrible they are. Hope this doesn't mean even worse support if your not at that higher level.
 
Amnixia

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,429
Not sure why people are so negative, it seems existing creators aren't really affected and they are future proofing their revenue model?
 
famikon

famikon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
ベラルーシ
→ https://mjtsai.com/blog/2019/03/05/patreon-and-facebook/

This is the bizarro upsidedown that capital lives in. Their existing model, handle the logistics of subscription service for businesses too small to handle them directly, is the definition of sustainable. It scales up ridiculously well.
[…]
So Patreon has made around $55m in revenue since 2013. If their startup money had been a loan they'd have probably paid it back by now and would be operating a pretty sustainable service.
[…]
So Patreon has made around $55m in direct revenue, but they're in hock to Thrive Capital for ~$107m, and Thrive doesn't just want their money back with interest.
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Kainazzo

Member
Dec 13, 2017
661
So they're blocking tiers from Lite users? As in, Lite creators can only have a single reward option? That seems like a major feature to me.
 
Booya_base

Booya_base

Member
Oct 31, 2017
747
Jersey
Orioto said:
So i guess it'll just make my struggle to make a living worse, thx patreon



Really ?? for christ fucking sake they will take more money from me AND make my Patrons leave now.. Some people are dependent from these kind of site really, they can't play with those shit like that..
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Now THIS is total bullshit, wtf Patreon, 1) thanks for trying to stealth increase low pledges and 2) Why the hell am I being punished for paypal just for not being in the US? Utterly horrible.
 
Unknownlight

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,573
Weiss said:
Sure let me be direct since subtlety is out the window.

Yes. If a company raises the price on a product or service exclusively to line their pockets because they think they can get away with it, they're shit.
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The problem with this is that you're wording it as "If a company raises prices for a greedy reason, then they're greedy." The outcome is being inserted into the premise so that the argument is always true.

Obviously, there are plenty of reasons why a company raises prices for non-greedy reasons, such as matching inflation or investing into their own infrastructure.

To be clear, I'm not saying that that's what Patreon is doing, but I do want to oppose wild and untrue blanket statements like that, even if it's just exaggerating for effect.
 
atomsk eater

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,830
NewProject2 might be interesting, but I don't know if they'd get enough donations to keep up the 0 fees* draw when/if it becomes more widely used. Other than competing services it seems like if you plan on making a patreon, ever, just make a dummy page to lock in the grandfathered rate (although that doesn't help with the new processing fees they're charging).

*correction: takes the fees bank companies charge for payment processing but does not take any additional for profit.

Kainazzo said:
So they're blocking tiers from Lite users? As in, Lite creators can only have a single reward option? That seems like a major feature to me.
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Yup! Should just be limited to 2-3 tiers and then make it unlimited in Pro and above, Lite really seems to get basically nothing.
 
Orioto

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
I think i've talked about it in the past already but that Patreon thing is really worrying me. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only artist or "content creator" on the web who's depending mostly on it now (in my case i have the posters but it's not enough) and we tend to forget it's a random company, that can fail, destroy its business, sell out or who knows what and it all goes to dust in one day. Which will have terrible consequences for many many people who trapped themselves in a Patreon main profit source. Patreon let a lot of people (podcasters etc..) chose at some point to dedicate all their time to their activity, but that's basically sitting on a thin branch with nothing under it.
 
freikugeln

freikugeln

Member
Oct 27, 2017
337
If it's basically a glorified payment service, can't creators easily jump ship? It's not a platform like youtube which is an effective monopoly for video creators.
 
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