Pathfinder: Kingmaker |OT| Pen and Paper Not Included

[Spacejaws]

Is anyone else getting oddly low FPS in this game? I'm getting 65-75 FPS (1440p) with a 2700x/1080 TI/16 gigs of ram. It's pretty weird and I'm not sure how common that is.

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Between patches I went down to 30-35fps in 1080p which I'm pretty sure was not what I originally saw and after not the big patch but the one before it shot up to 45-55fps.

Not sure what the fucks going on to be honest but I definetly saw a change in FPS between patches. I'm on a gt 970m.

 

[Vamphuntr]

There is a new bug that will make all your scrolls have a spell casting failure rate of 50% lol. It seems all of my characters have it now lol

 

[Admiral Woofington]

now that I've gone in with the mentality that some encounters are too OP in an area even if the rest arent, Im constantly quicksaving. Its a bit ridiculous that youll be walking down a cave and have to avoid corners in a room cause a broken giant spider is in the far wall but the rest of the enemies and the main mission enemies are fine lmao.

But I guess this is my life with the game now. I enjoy it ok.

 

[Massicot]

So late in the game, one of the repeated "problems" that shows up is called "Hunting the Wild Hunt." It damages your kingdom severely each day. The only two advisers that can solve it are on the middle of like 40 day trips, and I can't recall them. So I either have to find a save from before those trips were sent out (several hours ago) or just watch my kingdom die because I see the problem but can't do..anything about it.

 

[Rayne]

Yeah my performance tanked too. Wish I had just stayed on 1.04 at this rate.

Also I had to completely restart because a quest refused to complete meaning I couldn't complete a main quest mission and ended up locked up in a never ending failure state with my kingdom.

Yay.

 

[Massicot]

Well, I'm 99% sure I'm bugged out of finishing the game. I found myself stuck between "War of the River Kings" and "Sound of a Thousand Screams." Arcs. The former arc never fully closed (it takes place in Pitax, and it strongly suggests you're supposed to annex it, but nothing ever engaged once I did the event there.)

A comment on the steam forums suggested I can just force the next Act to start by spending a lot of time (easily over a year) on the throne doing kingdom stuff. And it was true! Got the Screams act to start..only now my kingdom is under attack daily and this portal I'm supposed to find for a quest never spawned.

The game has a lot of potential, but I'm going to shelve it and come back in six months. I wanted to see if I could just brute force my way to the ending, but that seems to not be possible.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

They hotfixed the stacking bug today, I think. (And more? The patch is 3.5GB.)

The new hotfix breaks all sound and music in the game until you manually move some subdirectories around.

Why aren't they using a beta branch for this stuff?

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people play games with sound? weiiiird


also what's this huge patch everyone is seeing i see a 900MB patch 1.0.6_(24253)

 

[Shodan14]

now that I've gone in with the mentality that some encounters are too OP in an area even if the rest arent, Im constantly quicksaving. Its a bit ridiculous that youll be walking down a cave and have to avoid corners in a room cause a broken giant spider is in the far wall but the rest of the enemies and the main mission enemies are fine lmao.

But I guess this is my life with the game now. I enjoy it ok.

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Qucksaving like your life depends on it is a time-honored crpg tradition.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Qucksaving like your life depends on it is a time-honored crpg tradition.

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Yeah, but it's incongruous.

Hardcore CRPGs simultaneously demand that 1. Your choices really matter, so you should never savescum, instead living with the consequences of your actions and dialogue options, and forging your own unique path through the gameworld, etc., but also 2. Quicksave/quickload combat constantly.

It's kind of weird, and I think designers should be more creative with their responses to the problem.

(For one thing, pen and paper doesn't have a save/load feature.)

 

[His Majesty]

Yeah, but it's incongruous.

Hardcore CRPGs simultaneously demand that 1. Your choices really matter, so you should never savescum, instead living with the consequences of your actions and dialogue options, and forging your own unique path through the gameworld, etc., but also 2. Quicksave/quickload combat constantly.

It's kind of weird, and I think designers should be more creative with their responses to the problem.

(For one thing, pen and paper doesn't have a save/load feature.)

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All your saves get wiped if you die seems like a good solution.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

(For one thing, pen and paper doesn't have a save/load feature.)

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There's a whole host of mechanisms that real world DMs implement to make it less frustrating which a cRPG doesn't have access to: dropping hints (subtle or not so subtle) about when they're outmatched; adapting on the fly to creative solutions from the party vs hard coded ones from the developers; tailoring the campaign or encounters to the party in some way; fudging the rolls if necessary. There certainly is a school of DMing that can feel brutal and random and out to get the players, but it is not a very common one.

Savescumming acts as a safety valve for fights and scenarios that are too difficult or that the party is poorly suited to dealing with. Like it's not frustration free and it has downsides for sure, but it's there to take some of the edge off (unless you want it that way and you're iron-manning or whatever). It's one of those things that people always talk about being "bad for games" but for me it's free license to be creative and try things I never would otherwise, even in completely unrelated genres like shooters or stealth games.

 

[Shake Appeal]

All your saves get wiped if you die seems like a good solution.

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Maaaybe, but I think if that's your solution, you also need a lot of failsafes (easier flee mechanics, for example) and encounter design that respects the stakes of the player's investment.

But maybe RPGs just need an "AI DM" that takes into account what's happening and tweaks encounters on the fly based on how well the player is doing.

 

[His Majesty]

Maaaybe, but I think if that's your solution, you also need a lot of failsafes (easier flee mechanics, for example) and encounter design that respects the stakes of the player's investment.

But maybe RPGs just need an "AI DM" that takes into account what's happening and tweaks encounters on the fly based on how well the player is doing.

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I was just kidding to be honest, especially in games which are prone to bugs and other unexpected things happening, this seems like a very bad idea. I do like your suggestion of an AI DM though. My experience so far with harder difficulties is that they feature an inverted difficulty curve: starts out really hard but flatlines later on. An adaptive difficulty mode could counteract this, but that seems like a really difficult task to pull off.

 

[The Dread Pirate Westley]

I was just kidding to be honest, especially in games which are prone to bugs and other unexpected things happening, this seems like a very bad idea. I do like your suggestion of an AI DM though. My experience so far with harder difficulties is that they feature an inverted difficulty curve: starts out really hard but flatlines later on. An adaptive difficulty mode could counteract this, but that seems like a really difficult task to pull off.

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Something like Left 4 Dead's AI Director could be a great addition to CRPG's. Definitely a massive undertaking but I bet somebody tries it once they've got their game systems nailed on. Maybe Larian next time out...

 

[MrLuchador]

Didn't Divinity 2 have a DM mode? I feel like PoE 2 did too.

 

[Richardi]

Didn't Divinity 2 have a DM mode? I feel like PoE 2 did too.

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Divinity 2 does, PoE 2, nope.

 

[MrLuchador]

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[His Majesty]

Anyway I restarted on challenging because the early encounters were a bit too easy and I don't like changing difficulties mid game. I think I will regret this but so far so good.

 

[Spacejaws]

Anyway I restarted on challenging because the early encounters were a bit too easy and I don't like changing difficulties mid game. I think I will regret this but so far so good.

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Are you handling the party weight ok?

I feel like I missed a trick but I had to deactivate the slow down party thing because it was always medium or above.

Am I wrong thinking it shouldn't count equiped items? Seems rather extreme.

 

[Richardi]

Are you handling the party weight ok?

I feel like I missed a trick but I had to deactivate the slow down party thing because it was always medium or above.

Am I wrong thinking it shouldn't count equiped items? Seems rather extreme.

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You have to buy the two bags, otherwise you get exhausted pretty fast, or you know stop picking everything that is not tied to the ground(hard to do in a CRPG, easier in a PnP one)

 

[Faith in Fate]

A lot of the armor you find early on weigh a lot but sell for so little it's not worth carrying it (unless you have the extra bags and str belts perhaps)

 

[Spacejaws]

Its more the equiped armour two of my characters have on already sends the weight right up. Especially in the hub areas where its just your main character carrying everything by themselves.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

the only thing you should pick up and don't need early game are crossbows

 

[Vamphuntr]

So late in the game, one of the repeated "problems" that shows up is called "Hunting the Wild Hunt." It damages your kingdom severely each day. The only two advisers that can solve it are on the middle of like 40 day trips, and I can't recall them. So I either have to find a save from before those trips were sent out (several hours ago) or just watch my kingdom die because I see the problem but can't do..anything about it.

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Go into the difficulty options and turn "Invincible Kingdom" on it will prevent you from getting more unrest levels and losing because of the kingdom events. The game is clearly unbalanced and broken. During the Vordecai events I got the Ancient Curse part 3 while in the last dungeon and it was impossible for me to back out because it was too far so it was -4 x 3 stats each day lol. Some problems card eventually requires really high DC that unless you had the BP (the game is ridiculously stingy on those) to grind the advisors then you will fail the dice rolls and quickly accrue unrest and lose.

On the weight front I got the glitch where effects of items stack so I can carry 6000 pounds of good before I get medium encumbrance. Trisitian also has like 50 charge of positive energy channeling. The scroll bug is annoying as I couldn't cast the few greater restoration scrolls I had on level drained characters without F5/F9ing all the time with the 50% failure rate.

Also ran into an infinite XP glitch in Armag's Tomb. Kill the boss at the end and choose the pacific options and you get about 2000 XP. Go into one of the side room and come back and the boss will be back in his near death phase so kill him and pick the pacific option again for another 2000 XP. You can repeat this endlessly. I didn't but I got this by mistake while exploring the rest of the dungeons after the boss. They didn't even remove him from the room after you pick the pacific option to make him leave.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Wow it's clearly unfinished. In the Pitax area you can discover areas on the map you can visit but are not properly finished. Like you enter the map but can't move because the ground isn't coded as being a terrain you can walk on. I used dimension door to bypass it and you can glitch past it and you end up in unfinished battles against enemies with buggy scripts. They drop pieces of relics for the storyteller too. I refuse to believe they playtested the whole game.

 

[Massicot]

Lol yep. One of the areas just refuses to let you go up the slope (something crag) and another literally doesn't let you move from the entrance..

 

[Vamphuntr]

Lol yep. One of the areas just refuses to let you go up the slope (something crag) and another literally doesn't let you move from the entrance..

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I did the second one by cheating with dimension door. You kind of glitch through the floor but reach a portal to the first world that is coded properly inside and can kill and loot a buggy nymph. Anyway I'm about to give up. The quests near what I believe is the end are beyond broken. Quests are now spawning but when you talk to the corresponding NPC nothing happens. People on the steam forums seems to agree with you that the main quest is unbeatable because of glitches. This is on top of all the other glaring issues. It needs more fixing and time in the oven. The kingdom management is kind of unforgiving considering the structure of the game. You can lose advisors and be in a situation where you can't replace them and auto fail events which can bring you a game over haha. Now I can guess why the early game was so impossible. They probably wanted people to take it slowly so that they can finish it.

 

[Rayne]

Yeah as bad as PoE2 was on release I was able to beat the game. (barebones as it was).

 

[spad3]

man this sounds so dope and looks pretty cool, but god damn that art-style is off putting as fuck. It's indistinguishable from practically every other game in that genre.

 

[jerfdr]

New hotfix, 1.0.7:

Hello everyone!

Please, be aware that there are plot spoilers in the descriptions below (in the Quest, Areas and Kingdom sections)!

• Quests
o "The Seed of Sorrow" quest didn't progress after the evil dialogue choice in the Capital Asylum. Resolution: fixed.
• Areas
o Several encounters had the wrong enemies at Oleg's Trading Post become infused with First World energies (last chapter state). Resolution: fixed.
o Incorrect copies of Mim and Dragn NPCs could be found in the capital. Resolution: fixed.
o The encounter at Poacher's Hideout could become unfinishable. Resolution: fixed.
o One of the cutscenes got stuck if Tristian was wounded and had zero Hit Points at Vordakai Tomb. Resolution: fixed.
o Trade with Dumra was not available during the "Deal with the Devil" quest. Resolution: fixed.
o Party couldn't move at Rill-and-Spill area. Resolution: fixed.
o Solo completion for the "Other World" area was not supported. Resolution: fixed.
• Items
o Some magical items could have issues with empty descriptions of their magical traits in the tooltips. Resolution: fixed.
• User Interfaces
o Days of the week could display incorrectly. Resolution: fixed.
o There was no direct way to check the build version. Resolution: the build version has been added to the Main Menu.
o The description for Enemy Difficulty settings didn't reveal all the mechanical elements altered by this option. Resolution: a more detailed description has been added for the Enemy Difficulty settings.
• Kingdom
o It was unclear and confusing that after defeating the main threat of the chapter, all of the kingdom events associated with that threat remained active. Resolution: after defeating the main threat of the chapter, all of the kingdom events associated with that threat are removed from the barony. In case there are too many of such events, the kingdom is considered damaged and its development is slowed down. This state can be removed with special new barony project.
o It was not always clear that some events can destroy the kingdom if not addressed. Resolution: a more detailed description added for the events that damage the kingdom and projects that remove these events.
• Classes
o Valerie's quest ability "Valorous" provided Strength and Constitution bonuses instead of Strength and Charisma. Resolution: "Valorous" ability provides Strength and Charisma, as per description.
o Metamagic rods didn't work for sorcerers. Resolution: fixed.
o Enemy Difficulty settings affected saving throws twice - the first time by increasing the enemy ability scores and the second time with a specific bonus to saving throws. Such implementation forced players to avoid spells with saving throws on the higher difficulties. Resolution: Saving throws are now affected by the Enemy Difficulty settings only once by increasing of base ability scores.
• Misc
o New pack of localization fixes.
• System
o Some players have persistent issues loading game saves that we were unable to reproduce so far. After analyzing possible threats that may cause this issue we implemented improvements that hopefully would fix the problem.
o Some players complained about being thrown out of the game and into the Main Menu while entering Throne Room (including the exit while trying to Rest at the capital). Resolution: fixed.

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Hopefully it doesn't break something major ;)

By the way, the major bug regarding stacking bonuses has already been resolved the day before yesterday (in an unnumbered hotfix which came without patch notes).

man this sounds so dope and looks pretty cool, but god damn that art-style is off putting as fuck. It's indistinguishable from practically every other game in that genre.

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I presonally love the artstyle. Character portraits are very nicely done, the UI is old-school in a good way. I love models for halflings and gnomes.
I get that being a high-fantasy "isometric" RPG it looks somewhat similar to other games in the genre, but I feel that it does enough in its own way to stand out.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

there's a cave near a bridge and if you are strong enough go in it and survive it's worth the fight

 

[jerfdr]

The Germans get it!

Finally a decent review of this game from a major outlet appeared where the reviewer actually played the game past Act 2 and spent time writing a 4-page review.

The biggest German gaming website Gamestar.de gave Pathfinder:Kingmaker 86/100 (actually 89/100 and -3 penalty for long loading times and bugs), calling it "nothing less than the heir to Baldur's Gate".

 

[Niahak]

Although I've spent a lot of time looking at builds/feats, I haven't looked at much in the way of actual in-game content / what to prepare for... question about Old Sycamore:

Spoiler

I found an abandoned campsite with corpses nearby and failed a knowledge check to see what killed them... I learned the hard way not to rest there, but is it even possible to take out the enemy that appears there in Chapter 1? I saw it had 32 AC (+12 from dex, so touch attacks might work)... and that seems a little rough at this stage in the game.

And more general question... if I fail to lockpick something with all my characters, can I try again later (e.g. following rest or leave/re-enter the area) or am I hosed?

Finally... man, these multi-GB hotfixes are nuts. I'm glad my internet is better than it was last year, otherwise I'd just have to keep my PC on all the time if I wanted to stay current. I haven't run into any major bugs (outside the two-Amiris one) since I'm still early in the game.

 

[jerfdr]

Although I've spent a lot of time looking at builds/feats, I haven't looked at much in the way of actual in-game content / what to prepare for... question about Old Sycamore:

Spoiler

I found an abandoned campsite with corpses nearby and failed a knowledge check to see what killed them... I learned the hard way not to rest there, but is it even possible to take out the enemy that appears there in Chapter 1? I saw it had 32 AC (+12 from dex, so touch attacks might work)... and that seems a little rough at this stage in the game.

And more general question... if I fail to lockpick something with all my characters, can I try again later (e.g. following rest or leave/re-enter the area) or am I hosed?

Finally... man, these multi-GB hotfixes are nuts. I'm glad my internet is better than it was last year, otherwise I'd just have to keep my PC on all the time if I wanted to stay current. I haven't run into any major bugs (outside the two-Amiris one) since I'm still early in the game.

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Spoiler

You can return to that abandoned campsite later, Chapter 1 is too early to have any solid chances of winning against that guy.

With lockpicking you can retry once they level up. There are quite a few items that increase Trickery, so if you have a character with good DEX and maxed Trickery (maybe with some feats thrown into it as well), with those items you won't have any real problems opening locks a bit later in the game.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Review from RPGsite 6/10.

Discussed pretty much what people were saying here. Too many bugs, dull and broken kingdom management, poor balancing. Reviewer got hit by a bug preventing him from beating the game.

 

[Niahak]

Spoiler

You can return to that abandoned campsite later, Chapter 1 is too early to have any solid chances of winning against that guy.

With lockpicking you can retry once they level up. There are quite a few items that increase Trickery, so if you have a character with good DEX and maxed Trickery (maybe with some feats thrown into it as well), with those items you won't have any real problems opening locks a bit later in the game.

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Cool! Thanks. Good to know a level up resets it - I know at least one of my trickery characters leveled so I might be able to use Linzi's competence song to have a shot.

 

[Rayne]

Review from RPGsite 6/10.

Discussed pretty much what people were saying here. Too many bugs, dull and broken kingdom management, poor balancing. Reviewer got hit by a bug preventing him from beating the game.

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Yeah I have to agree on their closing statement. When the bugs are fixed this game will be incredible.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Yeah I have to agree on their closing statement. When the bugs are fixed this game will be incredible.

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I agree but in the state the game is it will take a huge amount of time and effort to do. Then they will have to fix the balance especially for the Kingdom stuff which is unwinnable in late game for many reasons unless you use the invincibility slider hotfix. Their hotfix are what they are they know rebalancing and testing stuff will take a long time.

Spoiler

With lockpicking you can retry once they level up. There are quite a few items that increase Trickery, so if you have a character with good DEX and maxed Trickery (maybe with some feats thrown into it as well), with those items you won't have any real problems opening locks a bit later in the game.

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Spoiler

Starting with Chapter 4 some chests, secret walls and other checks have perception and trickery above 35 requirement. Even if you put the maximum points in trickery and perception and with those items the odds aren't exactly in your favors. In the Chapter 4 dungeon there is a secret wall with a 37 perception check and my pure rogue had a 25 score with the +5 goggles. So you need to roll at least 12 on a d20 to succeed so the odds clearly aren't in your favor. Same for the chests, in Act 5 they start to be above 40. Prepare to reload a lot.

 

[Rayne]

I agree but in the state the game is it will take a huge amount of time and effort to do. Then they will have to fix the balance especially for the Kingdom stuff which is unwinnable in late game for many reasons unless you use the invincibility slider hotfix. Their hotfix are what they are they know rebalancing and testing stuff will take a long time.

Spoiler

Starting with Chapter 4 some chests, secret walls and other checks have perception and trickery above 35 requirement. Even if you put the maximum points in trickery and perception and with those items the odds aren't exactly in your favors. In the Chapter 4 dungeon there is a secret wall with a 37 perception check and my pure rogue had a 25 score with the +5 goggles. So you need to roll at least 12 on a d20 to succeed so the odds clearly aren't in your favor. Same for the chests, in Act 5 they start to be above 40. Prepare to reload a lot.

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Oh yeah I'm not saying it's going to be easy or quick but it'll defo be worth it.

Spoiler

Oh yeah I saw that too. Yikes. Constantly reloading to get a good check is lame.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Oh yeah I'm not saying it's going to be easy or quick but it'll defo be worth it.

Spoiler

Oh yeah I saw that too. Yikes. Constantly reloading to get a good check is lame.

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That's why the kingdom stuff also becomes unwinnable. If you didn't grind ALL advisors and ALL stats then you will be in trouble. Later on the DC for the problems card can be DC 28 and above so if your advisor is below 8 the roll is unwinnable on a d20 unless you have +1 effect for the specific role and even then it's not very good chance. Moreover, it's easy to lose party members that act as advisors and even advisors in the story and some replacement for the specific roles depends on decisions based on your alignment. So you can be stuck with no replacement. Some advisor positions are unlocked when a secondary stat is high level enough and the game doesn't tell you which. So sometimes a problem will show up when you don't even have the position required so you auto fail. Some projects requires 40-90 days to complete while problems constantly show and you can't recall advisors so you keep bleeding stats and unrest until you lose. Coupled with the bugs this is kind of funny and sad at the same time.

 

[jerfdr]

Review from RPGsite 6/10.

Discussed pretty much what people were saying here. Too many bugs, dull and broken kingdom management, poor balancing. Reviewer got hit by a bug preventing him from beating the game.

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I strongly disagree with the statement that kingdom management is "dull". I'm currently in early Chapter 4 and I liked the kingdom management part a lot so far (I'm playing on "Easy" kingdom difficulty). Maybe it'll become broken later on, but it's certainly not dull. Also it's leagues above the management parts in e.g. both Pillars games.

And I didn't have too many problems with the balancing in general so far, at least on "Normal" difficulty; I wouldn't call it "poor".

 

[texhnolyze]

Yeah, I actually like the kingdom management part. I feel like it's an essential part to fully immerse yourself as a ruler, as the the game is all about. I truly felt like I am the ruler of my kingdom, establishing new contracts, expanding my region, managing my subordinates, and see the fruits of my decisions in real time.

 

[Rayne]

That's why the kingdom stuff also becomes unwinnable. If you didn't grind ALL advisors and ALL stats then you will be in trouble. Later on the DC for the problems card can be DC 28 and above so if your advisor is below 8 the roll is unwinnable on a d20 unless you have +1 effect for the specific role and even then it's not very good chance. Moreover, it's easy to lose party members that act as advisors and even advisors in the story and some replacement for the specific roles depends on decisions based on your alignment. So you can be stuck with no replacement. Some advisor positions are unlocked when a secondary stat is high level enough and the game doesn't tell you which. So sometimes a problem will show up when you don't even have the position required so you auto fail. Some projects requires 40-90 days to complete while problems constantly show and you can't recall advisors so you keep bleeding stats and unrest until you lose. Coupled with the bugs this is kind of funny and sad at the same time.

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Oh yeah I was watching Cohh's streams and the reloading saves to get good outcomes is bleh. And yeah I just lost one of my advisors which blew :(

My main issue with the game is they leave far too much stuff vague. (well other than the bugs obviously).

And yeah I tend to avoid the projects. They are traps. Take far too long and far too little reward.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

i'm so stupid i wasted so much time and had a failing kingdom by not searching out more people and the treasurer. failed so much b/c i didn't have enough people to assign. i ended up putting it on Auto anyway, next run i'll do things better

also use temporary skill check buffs for some of the stuff. and you just have to guess with secret panels/walls

 

[Call me YHWH]

Any word on whether they're going actually adding the whole appearance changes as you upgrade your kingdom? I'm hearing from a few sources that it's not currently working like it appeared in the trailer, which is a pretty major bummer.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Yeah as bad as PoE2 was on release I was able to beat the game. (barebones as it was).

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i'd say you were lucky b/c i couldn't beat PoE2 b/c of a bug and uninstalled it and never went back

 

[DeepChord]

they really need to add an option to add markers on the map.

also, can somebody help me. my quest log looks like this:

how do I progress the main story?

 

[jerfdr]

they really need to add an option to add markers on the map.

also, can somebody help me. my quest log looks like this:

how do I progress the main story?

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Just wait a bit (deal with the kingdom issues meanwhile), and new main story quests will appear.

 

[DeepChord]

Just wait a bit (deal with the kingdom issues meanwhile), and new main story quests will appear.

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Ok, it's also safe to just travel around and explore?

 

[jerfdr]

Ok, it's also safe to just travel around and explore?

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It's ok to explore, but note that later on you'll need a strong kingdom with high stats (if you're not playing on auto-kingdom mode or with invincible kingdom), so you need to take care of them as well.